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I'm Mike Boris and this is Straight Talk.
I could just hear the fire coming closer and closer.
My hands and arms, they were on fire.
I got this huge rush of elation because I was still standing.
Helicopter came and then I woke up a month later in a hospital in Sydney.
Doria Pitt, welcome to Straight Talk.
Thank you, Mark. Thank you for having me.
Just talking to you today, Doria, like what I'm getting from you is discipline,
structure, self-belief.
A good support group.
Is that what you want to leave people with?
Our relationships are the most important thing.
So maybe being a bit vulnerable,
not being afraid to tell people how much they mean to you.
Because I know I was never good at that before this accident
and I've gotten so much better at letting people know
how much they mean to me.
I always struggle to explain how I did it
and I think it was every day I just got up
and I just kept going.
Doria Pitt, welcome to Straight Talk.
Thank you, Mark. Thank you for having me.
Where are we talking to each other from on Riverside at the moment?
I'm in Ulladulla, South Coast.
I was going to say God's country, but then I thought,
no, that's going to make me look like a bit of a bogan.
So I won't say that, but you've said it for me.
I said it. So I said it. So I look like one.
Well, by the way, happy birthday.
I think for tomorrow.
Yeah, it's my birthday.
Thank you. How old are you this year?
Oh my God, don't ask me how old I am.
I'm 69 next birthday, yeah.
You've lived a lot of life and I know you've got lots of lessons for people to learn.
I guess I'm nearly double your age.
I'm nearly double your age.
How is the world treating you at 37?
How are you going?
It's been pretty good.
It's been really good.
So living on our dollar, my husband's a helicopter pilot.
We've got these two beautiful little boys doing a bit of work.
I know you do a bit of speaking, Mark, so do I.
My running program, writing.
So all of that keeps me really busy as well as my kids.
So I think to sum it up, life's pretty good.
So you've just come back from Indo?
Yeah, I went to Indo.
And you commented on,
Oh, my surfing post, which I was really-
So I just looked at my notes here.
I didn't realize this, but you were born in Tahiti before moving to the South Coast.
Yeah, so my mom's Tahitian.
My dad's Australian.
I was born in Tahiti.
And then I think I've got an older brother, Genji.
So I was around six months.
They decided to move back to Australia.
And I think they made that decision just for, I think,
a better life for us.
And I think they made that decision just for, I think,
a better life for us kids.
They thought they would have an Australian.
Like, you know, it's a bigger country.
There's more opportunities.
So yeah, we moved here when I was really little, but I've still got family all over there.
And my mom has actually moved back to Tahiti.
Now, she doesn't actually live in Tahiti.
She lives on a different adult called Rangioa.
I went and visited her last year with the boys.
She lives in a really remote spot.
She's got two kids.
She lives in a really remote spot.
No electricity, no water, living in a little hut.
Kind of like, I suppose, what people did back in the day.
And she's so happy.
I think it's the happiest I've ever seen her, which I think was a really good lesson
for me because after a week there, I was so bored, Mark.
I was like, I want to go home.
Get me out of here.
There's nothing to do.
But I think it was a really good lesson because I think particularly
in our modern world, we're so busy.
We're always going.
We always want to keep achieving and doing and being productive.
And it was a really good insight into, you know, whether that stuff,
whether all that achieving and all that producing actually makes us fulfilled
and happy or if whether we get that sense of happiness and purpose
by connecting to our land, connecting to our culture, connecting to our family,
looking after others, that type of thing.
That's interesting.
You should say that.
So maybe you could explain to me because I'm not that familiar with Tahiti
or Tahitian culture or, for that matter, Tahitians as such.
I mean, to be honest, it's a bit of a mystery to me.
So Tahitian people, I guess, are Polynesian.
Is that Polynesian in terms of genetics?
So they're Polynesian.
So they're part of the Polynesian triangle, which is from Hawaii to Aotearoa,
which is New Zealand and then Australia.
And then Rapa Nui, which is Easter Island.
So Polynesian people colonised the whole Pacific Ocean thousands
and thousands of years ago.
Europeans, you know, discovered Polynesia.
And so Tahiti was colonised by the French.
So everyone speaks French over there, but they also still speak their
traditional language, which is Tahitian.
But where my mum lives, it's...
I don't even know how to say it right.
Don't know if I've said that right.
So it's a slight variant to Tahitian.
So your mum sounds like she's like full on as a Tahitian.
Is she like full-blooded Tahitian person genetically?
No, she's not full-blooded genetically.
And I think as well, Mark, you know, with colonisation,
I'm not sure if many people would say that they're full-blooded.
And I think for a lot of people that question can come across
as being a little bit denigrating maybe.
So she's not full-blooded.
Her mum is Tahitian.
Well, her mum is from Rangioa and her dad is French.
So her dad was a soldier who went to Tahiti I think
around in the 70s.
But my mum grew up, she never knew her dad.
She never knew him.
Because I'm trying to work out or I'm trying to look
at the influences on yourself.
Obviously her parents were always big influences on all of us,
particularly mums.
I'm talking about in my case at least because I can only talk
about Survey 1, that's me, and I guess my own kids.
But if your mum's influences are her mother
and culturally Tahitian, especially given what she's gone
and done now, gone there to live there and it sounds
like it's living off grid, how much
of that has actually influenced you?
I think a lot of it, Mark.
In growing up, you know, I would say that she was always
so proud to be Tahitian.
Her mum was a single mum.
She raised four kids.
She fought the French government for decades to get her tradition
So again, in Australia, maybe a little bit like, you know,
land rights for our First Nations people.
So my grandmother is incredibly strong and determined.
My mum just as much.
You know, she moved to a different country.
She didn't speak English.
She ended up having four kids here.
She wrote a bestselling trilogy about life in Tahiti.
She learned Tahitian as an adult because when my mum was growing
No one spoke Tahitian.
It was frowned upon.
So everyone spoke French.
And so as an older person, she learnt Tahitian,
started reconnecting to her culture that way.
So I think definitely there's a lot of influence on me.
And even if you look at my kids' names, you know, Hakavai, Rahiti,
both of those are Polynesian names.
So it's something that I'm very, very proud of to be Polynesian.
I don't speak Tahitian.
I sound, you know, pretty Australian.
My accent's pretty strong, or so I'm told.
But I still think you can be connected to your culture even though you might
not, you know, I never even lived in Tahiti.
I moved here when I was six months old.
But I still feel pretty connected to it.
And then when you're, I mean, this is about you, by the way,
but I'm actually intrigued about your mum now.
Your mum moved back to Tahiti, back to this more remote place
and made a decision to sort of live this more natural life.
It's probably a better way, probably a good way for me to describe it.
What was her objective?
What was she trying to achieve?
You know, and that's what all of us kids were doing because no shit,
when she first moved there, she was living in a tent.
It wasn't bougie.
Nothing about it was easy or nice.
My mum is what, like maybe close to 60.
Her mum is maybe 80.
So my grandma won her traditional land back and my mum
and my grandma went to the land, set up tents and were like, cool, we're here.
This is our land and we're going to turn it into something, you know,
a little bit nicer or a little bit easier.
So I think that might have been my mum's objective.
I think she obviously wanted to reconnect to her culture.
She really loves Australia.
She always says it's given all of us kids such a great life and that is true.
But I think probably a part of her was always homesick when she was in Australia.
So, yeah, my mum is the most fascinating woman you would ever meet.
She's so badass and she's someone.
That decides she's going to do something and then she just goes and fucking does it.
And I've always really admired that about my mum.
And if you think about, you know, when I was growing up, I had three brothers.
My mum worked full time and every night she would write.
She would work on these books that she was writing.
And I just think the amount of self-belief she had was amazing.
I don't know if I've got that same amount of self-belief.
I want to ask more about your mum because I actually think these things inform us.
Because these things inform us about ourselves.
I mean, I've been a big student of my own family, my own parents.
Because, I mean, everything I do, I have to be honest with you,
like pretty much most things that, you know, I initiate in my life
have somewhere somehow found their way into my life as a result
of something my parents have done.
Because I feel like sometimes I've never had an original idea.
And I think maybe that probably applies to most people
who have had a nice, good relationship with their family.
Probably even people who had bad relationships with their family
to some extent have formed ideas as a result of the bad relationship too.
So if your mum right now, she's living sort of on the land
that her grandmother, sorry, your grandmother, her mother won back,
how long did your grandmother, how long did it take your grandmother
to get this land back into her family?
It took decades, Mark.
It took decades and decades and decades.
And I think the thing is it's mind-boggling to me that you have to, you know,
you've got to prove that something that always belonged to you
and your family was actually yours.
So it was decades going through the French court system.
Everyone in the family helped out with that.
My grandma now says that that's what gave her breast cancer,
just the stress and I guess the length of that fight.
And so, like, my grandma's happy.
You know, she did it.
She got her land back.
She feels like she's done something really special for her kids
but also for, you know, for everyone in the family.
And I really think she has.
And I think for one person, it's kind of like that David
and Goliath battle, right, you know, to go up against the court system,
which I presume would be pretty intimidating.
But, yeah, she did it.
It took her decades, though.
It took her a really long time.
So are we talking about, like, something that's worth a shitload of money
or is it not about the money?
It's about the thing that defines somebody, you know,
like this is my land sort of thing and you should never have taken it
Or is it sort of something really, really valuable?
I think if I'm to be honest, I feel like if there was some economic benefit
to the French for having that land, so, for example,
if there was, you know, minerals underneath the land or all of that type
of stuff that we see play out in Australia, I don't think it would have been
as easy for my grandma to win her land back.
But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't agricultural land.
There's nothing there.
Just like a few, you know, a few palm trees and a few coconut trees
and it's a limestone atoll.
Like nothing grows there.
So it's pretty, you know.
Barren in terms of it being not really producing anything.
But I think for my grandmother it wasn't really about, you know,
winning this land back because it was going to be at a certain value
that they could then sell and then split between the family.
She wanted it back because she felt that's how she feels connected
It's a matter of principle too.
So how does that, if I was looking at, by the way,
is your first name your maiden, not your maiden name,
your Christian name or whatever your first name is I should say.
Is that a Polynesian word?
So it's Turia and it means goddess of the ocean.
But most Aussies can't pronounce it so I just say Turia, that's fine.
Turia, that's lovely.
Thank you very much.
So therefore principles, because I always say this about my own kids
and I guess this applies to me too as growing up,
whatever I was told is not something that I really necessarily adopted
or did but generally speaking what we see is what we end up doing.
So what we see in our parents or our grandparents in your case,
your parents and grandparents and what I saw in my parents
and grandparents for that matter and what my kids have seen
in their father I think largely can represent how we live our lives.
So you saw your grandmother and to a large extent your mother too,
never giving up on a principle.
How much of that is parlayed back into your life?
Oh, I think all of it, Mark.
You know, you think about the journey that I've been on
and I always hate using that word journey because it feels so woo-woo.
But, you know, the past decade or so, particularly in those earlier years,
were really, really fucking hard and I always struggled
to explain how I did it and I think it was every day I just got up
and I just kept going and I think that's what my grandmother did.
And if I think about my mum, you know, having four kids,
running a household, putting food on the table every night.
I had a dad as well.
Sorry, I don't want to make out.
My mum was a single mum.
I had a dad but this was back in the 90s where, you know,
topics like the mental load probably weren't discussed as regularly.
They weren't really part of our conversation.
So dad worked, mum worked but then mum also did cooking,
the cleaning, the running of the house.
So mum did all of that and then at night when all of us kids were asleep,
she would find this time to write on these books that were inside of her.
So, again, I saw my mum every day just doing those little steps,
making those hard choices, not taking the easy way out,
having this really high expectation of herself.
And so I think all of those lessons and all of those things I saw growing up
formed the person that I am today.
So when you were, if I go back to when you were a teenager,
where did you sit in the sibling tree like in terms of your problems?
Yeah, so I've got Genji, my older brother.
Youngest or oldest?
Yeah, Genji's eldest.
Then me, then Haimanu and then Tariki.
So you're sort of the second eldest?
Second eldest, yeah, only girl.
So when you were growing up in your teenager period, you were living,
so you were living down the south coast then?
Living in Ulladulla, yeah.
Oh, the whole time, okay.
So just what were you like as a student?
Like were you into it or didn't give a shit about school
or more interest in sport?
What was your deal?
Mark, I was a complete nerd.
I loved the challenge.
I loved applying myself.
And I feel like I've, you know, and this is such a small memory,
but you know when you're going for those career sessions
and you tell your careers advisor what subjects you're going to pick
and your HSC and so I said, you know, I'm thinking about doing physics
and chemistry and maths.
And he looked at me and he said, I just don't think you're smart enough.
And I felt really demoralised in that moment.
I went home and I told my mum and I told my dad and I told my brothers
and I said, oh, no, the teachers don't think I'm smart enough.
And I remember my dad being completely outraged and he was like, no, fuck him.
He doesn't know who you are.
Like if you want it, if you want to do those subjects, you can do them,
but you're going to have to work really, really hard.
And so I ended up coming first in physics and chemistry and maths
and maths extension.
I won the math medal.
And it was a real, yeah, it's a strong, it's a formative memory for me
because it was, I guess it was proof that no one else knows
what you're capable of, you know.
No one else has your mind, has your abilities, has your skills,
has your abilities.
Has your abilities, has your beliefs and no one can tell you what is possible
or what is not possible.
And in that moment I realised, well, even though people around me told me
that I wouldn't be able to do those subjects, I fucking did them
and I did really well in them.
So that, you know, that was a little bit of proof for me in myself.
This sort of theme of self-belief seems to sort of be strong
and, again, I don't want to diminish the effect of your father,
but it seems to be a strong theme between the women in your family,
grandmother, mother and yourself.
It's like self-belief to the extent that you need to get a little bit
of a pick-up every now and then, a little bit of a lift from your dad.
Like, as you said, he reacted strongly to the assertion
of the vocational guidance person, whatever you call them, careers people,
You know, that you weren't good enough.
But at the end of the day it had to be your self-belief.
It had to be Torea's self-belief in herself.
And I guess it probably gets influenced, these things at least,
get influenced by what you saw prior to that, everything you saw prior to that.
And I presume we're talking about you were about 17 or 18 at this time
when you had to go and do your HSC.
You're talking about the HSC now, aren't you?
I don't know what they call it these days.
Whatever it's called these days.
Whatever it's called these days.
Yeah, your final year.
Yeah, your final year though.
And this self-belief thing is something that I think forms in us
when we're like from a young age, like right from, you know, 10, 12,
And it's obviously stuck with you because clearly, you know,
when you went through that tough period in your life,
you still had to have some self-belief in yourself.
It doesn't really matter at the end of the day.
You know, you're responsible for yourself.
You've got to get up yourself.
People might sort of, you know, give you a bit of encouragement and stuff like that.
But, you know, it's up to you at the end of the day.
It's just like when you did the year 12 or the last two years of school.
It's your self-belief to do extension maths and do physics
and all those other sciences and all those other things that you did
and you did well in because it's not enough to believe in yourself.
You've got to do something.
You've got to actually drive yourself to do the work.
You can have all of the self-belief in the world that you're going
to do extremely well on a maths test.
But if you don't look at the notes, if you don't do any study,
if you don't do anything and you just loaf around the whole year,
I don't know if that self-belief is going to translate
into a very good result.
So I think, you know, obviously you need self-belief.
You need that desire.
You need that desire to do well, right?
Because if you don't want to do well in what you're doing or if you,
you know, whether that's in your work or in your relationship
or whatever it is, if you don't want to do well, you won't be able to.
So I think you need that desire to do well.
But I also think you do need people around you.
I really think you need a support system because I could have had all
of the self-belief in the world.
But in hospital, if no one came to visit me, if my mum didn't bring me meals,
if my boyfriend at the time, Michael, wasn't there every day, you know,
if you don't have those people in your corner, I think that would be really
difficult as well to do well or to exceed expectations.
Because it's interesting, you're right, self-belief,
it's an important ingredient, it's a necessary ingredient
but it's not sufficient.
To succeed at whatever it is you're trying to achieve.
And then if I, even if I just look at your Year 12 period,
it's not enough to be someone who believes in the self and the outcomes
that you want to achieve.
But you have to have a sort of a structured life.
I mean, you have to get up at a certain time.
You have to, you know, if you're doing extension maths,
you have to go to extra classes which probably start at 7 in the morning
or 7.30 in the morning.
Some people may have tutors but at least the schools,
most of them put in an extra class for those.
Extension maths kids and et cetera.
And you have to be the sort of kid who can get up and get dressed
and have your breakfast and go to do the thing
and then you have to do the homework around it.
So where did this structured bit come from,
this let's call it discipline structure in your life?
Because, you know, it's all very well to be motivated
but at the end of the day it's discipline that succeeds, you know.
And we'll just talk a little bit later.
I'd like to park the support.
The support system that we all need to have too, I think,
because unfortunately some people do not ever get a support system.
But I want to talk about that in a minute.
I'll park that for a moment.
But this structured process, this process of being able
to structure yourself and discipline yourself to actually execute
on that structure, where did that come from?
Well, I don't know, Mark.
I don't actually know.
I'm a very logical person.
You know, I eventually became an engineer so I think I just,
I just really liked it.
I liked having a structure.
I liked having, I liked being able to show up.
I liked being at my class, you know, prepared,
being able to put my best foot forward.
I liked having the right pencils.
You know, some kids would walk in and they'd have a, you know, chaotic.
They'd have a purple pencil or a pink.
I liked to have the right pencil for the class that I was in
because I think if you, all of those little things, right,
it's just like they're so easy.
Like it's easy to have the right materials for the class.
Like that's not hard.
You don't need anything special to be able to do that.
You don't need to be smart.
You just need to make sure you have the right pencils for the class.
Have your notes that are for that class.
Again, that's easy to do.
You pack them in your bag.
And I keep saying it's easy to do and maybe it was just easy,
and maybe it was just easy for me to do.
And I also want to say, you know, I didn't, I was lucky in that
how my brain works, the structure that schools are
and my brain work really well together,
or at least they did when I went through school.
And I know if you're neurodivergent or, you know, even if you're a kid,
if you're a kid and you don't have a safe place to sleep at night
and you're waking up in the morning and there's no food for breakfast,
it's going to be really hard for you to have all your stuff squared away,
isn't it, for the maths class that you're doing later that day.
Like that's not even on your priorities list.
So I think just want to call out that I was able to put my best foot forward
because I had all of that stuff.
I had a safe space to sleep.
I had a, you know, a relatively straightforward relationship
There was food on the table.
We had electricity.
We had all of those basic things which made it easier for me to be able to go,
yep, I'm going to have the right pencils for this class.
Very interesting.
You mentioned earlier on, right at the very beginning,
you said you were a nerd.
I'm always curious when someone says that because I was a bit of a nerd
But being a nerd doesn't mean I didn't get up to mischief because I did.
But at the same time, when it came to my schoolwork, I was nerdy.
And what I mean by nerdy, and I'd like to know,
what do you mean by nerdy?
It doesn't matter what I mean by nerdy.
I'd like to know what you mean by nerdy.
Do you mean that you were actually very curious about the topics
that you were studying and actually loved it, loved maths?
Or you were nerdy to the extent that you just did everything you had to do?
Curiosity and love of the topic?
I genuinely loved it.
I genuinely loved it.
So, again, I think that's part of that, that desire to learn
about the subject, right?
I was invested in it.
I wanted to learn about it.
I was curious about it.
I probably drove some of my teachers up the wall
with my incessant questioning about things.
So I genuinely loved it.
Even like I found an afternoon doing calculus, I found it relaxing.
I found it soothing.
I found it a great way to spend my time.
So I think that obviously helps, right?
If you're liking what you're doing or you're interested in it
or you're curious about it, it's going to be easier to develop
that discipline to do it, right, whereas if it's something
that you're not interested about, couldn't give a shit about,
don't want to know about, to strap yourself to your desk for a couple
of hours and learn about it, I think that's going to be really,
really hard for you to do.
You're a bright person, so I don't want to look
like I'm getting too deep into the weeds here,
but if I might just put this to you because you're making me think
about my own school journey as well.
Was it the chemical, do you think it was, in hindsight,
do you think it was the reward of or was the brain rewarding
with the release of chemicals for you getting things right that actually
was the thing that makes you become really, let's call it,
like addicted in a good way, addicted to hard work and curiosity?
Because for me it was always like I used to get an adrenaline rush
or a rush when I calculated something correctly and particularly
if it was difficult and particularly if other kids,
my peers might have been having some difficulty with it,
just getting the outcome correct or doing well in an exam, et cetera,
I used to get a bit of that.
I used to get a bit of a hit, a bit of a rush from that.
And then over time, I didn't realise it at the time,
but yeah, it was good.
Yeah, I am dopamine and serotonin hits.
It's just hormonal releases that your brain is giving you as a reward
for achieving an outcome.
So achievement was a driver for me and I didn't positively think about that.
So was that something for you or was it just your academic nerdness?
If there's such a word, that was driving you?
What was really driving you deep down?
What do you think it really was?
What was driving me?
I wanted to prove to people that I was smart.
I wanted, I obviously, my brain obviously liked those little hits
of dopamine and serotonin, so I liked that, you know,
when you work out a difficult maths problem, that smug,
sense of satisfaction you get, like that's pretty fucking good.
There's not many things that, well, probably, Mark,
you've done lots of big deals so you're probably thinking, yeah,
there's heaps of stuff that beats that.
But, you know, that is an amazing feeling when you work
out something that's really difficult.
And probably that, you know, that academic nerdness,
as you so eloquently put it before, I think maybe all of the above.
How about, because one of the big drivers for me, too,
was I used to like to please my parents.
I used to like coming home with, you know, a good report card.
That was a big deal for me.
I don't know why.
I wasn't a goody two-shoes by no stretch of the imagination,
especially where I went to school.
Yeah, I mean, was that sense of pleasing people big?
Probably, Mark, and I think maybe,
it was a little bit to my detriment because my brother was a really,
really good surfer growing up.
So he had lots of my parents' time and attention,
which I didn't articulate at the time but I probably resented him because,
you know, all of our spare money would go into his surfing career.
And I realised that through achievement,
achievements in academia, I also got some time and attention
And when I say my parents, I'm mainly meaning my dad.
But also my dad had really high expectations of me.
So I remember once I got, you know, 97% on a maths extension exam
and my dad, instead of being happy, he said, well, why wasn't it 100?
And I think the next time I did get 100%.
So it's kind of hard for me to talk about it.
You know, I'm not trying not to denigrate my dad because,
of course, I love him.
But it was, you know, he had really high expectations for me.
I don't know if that was just what, you know,
the style of parenting that he learnt from his parents as well.
But do you think that to some extent was maybe a good thing?
Because it gave you a high bar to achieve.
I mean, perhaps if it wasn't there, you might not have actually
pushed that hard.
And that's what I don't, that's what I get confused about myself.
But I don't know if it made, if I reflect on that last year of school,
all of that achievement, all of that hustling, all of that grinding,
all of those late nights, I can't say I was very happy.
It wasn't a fulfilling year for me.
But I also think when you're working really hard on a goal,
you're not going to be happy all of the time, right?
You're going to be stressed, annoyed, tired, cranky, pissed off
because stuff's not going your way sometimes.
So I don't know if happiness is the end goal and I don't know if you can,
at least for me, I don't know if you can be, you know,
happy with what you've got, grateful for your life,
in that sort of reflective mode and simultaneously really working
hard towards something.
I don't know about that.
That's very insightful.
That's very insightful, Tori.
It's funny you should say it because, and I'd like to know what you think
about this, but I have a concept in my life which, you know,
it's taken me 68 years to develop it, but it's not happiness as such.
It's about peacefulness.
Well, peacefulness is probably the most important thing,
but on that happy, on the H level, it's about happy enough and I think
that you just need to be, and I'd like to know what you think about this,
I just like to be happy enough in the pursuit of what I'm doing
at any one particular time, knowing well that quite well that there's going
to be, during that pursuit, there's going to be periods where I'm not going
to be feeling great.
I mean, you know, the world of an entrepreneur, the world
of a start-up, et cetera, that's your world.
It's a shitty world.
But you have moments of highs and you have lots more,
many more moments of lows.
But if you can manage to have an attitude of I'm happy enough,
then you can get through it.
What do you think about that as a concept because you've obviously been
challenged a lot in your life.
So is happy enough probably where you need to be?
Yeah, I think so.
And I think there's so much focus on being happy all of the time and I think
that's part of our, you know, I think our culture these days,
it's a bit of a culture of this fake positivity, right, this, you know,
like everything's all rainbows and butterflies or you're almost,
it's almost like you're not allowed to articulate that you're stressed
or you're sad or you're going through something tough
or you're feeling anxious.
And I think most of us, we want to feel all those good,
positive emotions, right, like being happy, excited, enthusiastic.
But I don't think that's reflective of normal life.
And I think just as we feel, you know, happy and excited and energetic
and motivated, it's going to swing the other way at some points
and we're going to wake up irritated, stressed, annoyed at our partner,
you know, cranky.
You know, if in your case, Mark, you're working with start-ups
and things like that.
There's going to be shit that happens which really, really annoys you,
really gets to you.
So I do really like your, how you look at it as being happy enough.
I guess post your Year 12, the next stage of life is
as a university student.
You did engineering.
Which engineering did you do?
Which facet of engineering did you do?
Did mining engineering.
Why mining engineering?
Why did you choose that?
Why did I choose mining?
So I did a mining blast on the internet, on YouTube,
and I thought, wow, that looks really cool.
That looks awesome.
As in like you just went on YouTube and you looked up?
Yeah, like so when they're mining coal, for example,
they'll blast that top layer.
They call it the overburden.
They blast that so they can remove it away with diggers and trucks
and then what's left behind is like the seam of coal.
And that's what inspired you to do mining engineering?
I just thought it was cool.
I was also like it's a little bit flexible, right,
those first couple of years.
So I thought I could do mining but if it doesn't work out,
I could do something else.
So you graduated as a mining engineer?
So engineering is a very male-dominated industry.
So I think when I graduated as a mining engineer,
there was like five girls in my class and about, you know, 50 boys.
And did you manage to get a job in mining?
Yeah, I got a really, really great, you know,
when you finish uni there's all of these graduate positions that go out
and I got a really one that was held in high regard because I was, you know,
I was still a nerd at university as well.
So I got this job in Kununurra in the Kimberley region of Australia
at the Argyle Diamond Mine which was, I don't know if it still is,
but it was operated by Rio Tinto.
Yeah, that's where the pink diamonds were mined.
Yeah, that's the pink diamonds, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
And how long did you work in mining for?
You know, I only got to work in mining for nine months
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Can you tell me about the ultramarathon?
Why you decided to enter an ultramarathon?
What was the deal?
I think it's just I like, you know, maybe it's evident from my life so far,
but I like challenges.
You know, I did mining engineering, which was quite male-dominated.
I loved running when I was in Kununurra.
I was away from the surf.
So I just, you know, kept running and kept running a little bit more.
There was like a local half marathon, which I won,
and then I did this ultramarathon.
And I emailed them about it and then they came back with the registration fee
and I thought, no, that's a rip-off.
That's too expensive.
I'll, you know, I'll look at something later.
And they emailed me, you know, I think maybe 12 days before the race
and they said, oh, we've got a couple of free entry spots.
Would you like one?
So I thought, yep, cool, that sounds good, no worries.
Entered the ultramarathon really excited at the start of the race, you know,
feeling excited, feeling nervous, feeling a little bit anxious.
And I only got about a quarter.
So this ultramarathon was 100 kilometres.
I got about 25 kilometres into the race.
And I'd just passed another checkpoint.
So when you do an ultramarathon they have things called checkpoints at, you know,
maybe 10 or 15 Ks through the race for everyone to check in
and make sure everyone's going okay.
So we'd all passed the second checkpoint.
And I say we because there was five, I think five other people
who were with me on that day.
We were at the break.
We were at the bottom of a gorge and we could see fire vastly approaching.
Now we had two choices, Mark.
So we could go back the way that we'd come
but there was really dry spin effects up to about my shoulder.
So, you know, perfect fuel for the fire.
Our other choice was to run up the side of the gorge,
which had less vegetation, so less fuel for the fire,
but fire goes faster going uphill.
So those were our options in that moment at that time.
We all decided to run up the side of the hill,
tried to cover ourselves, you know, in amongst the rocks.
I could just hear the fire coming closer and closer and closer.
It was, of course, extremely hot for me.
..I just remember, like, looking down at my hands and arms
and they were aflame.
They were on fire.
And in that moment, I thought about one person.
I thought about my boyfriend.
My boyfriend at the time, Michael,
I think we'd only been together for like a year and a half at that stage.
And I thought about, you know, when you're a young person
and you fall in love, you have all of these hopes and dreams
with this person that you've fallen in love with.
And I just remember thinking how unfair it was
that Michael and I wouldn't be able to...
..you know, live this life, live this life of adventure
that we'd talked about and that we'd planned.
Now, the fire passed,
so I don't actually know how long it was around for
or how long I was burning for.
It might have been five minutes.
Might have been a minute.
I don't know, but it, you know, moved through us.
And I remember I got this huge rush of elation
because I was, you know, still standing, still alive,
and I thought, fuck, I've done it.
Like, I've survived.
Now, we ended up having to wait four hours on that hillside,
on that side of the gorge, for help.
I wasn't very lucid at the time, didn't know what was going on.
Helicopter came and picked us up,
took us to the local hospital in Kununurra.
I remember saying to the nurses,
can someone just please call my boyfriend
because he's going to be worried about me?
And then I woke up a month later in a hospital in Sydney.
And I always get asked, like, you know,
was the fire painful, was it scary?
And, like, yes, it was painful, yes, it was scary,
but at the same time I think,
your body's protective mechanisms kick into play.
So I had all of this, you know, adrenaline surging
and for me I had no concept of time on that day,
didn't really know what was going on.
And so I always say, like, yes, it was painful, yes, it was scary,
but for me the real work, the biggest challenge of my life so far,
and I really hope it is,
it is the biggest challenge of my life because it was really bloody big,
was when I woke up in hospital and I, you know,
had to go through that process of rehabilitating my life,
rehabilitating myself and my body.
That's a pretty crazy sort of the rehabilitation process,
which we'll talk to you about,
but is it because you were in a coma for that period
Was it an induced coma or did your body just go into a coma?
So they put you into an induced coma, so they're, you know,
they're doing operations on you while you're asleep,
doing skin grafts and all types.
I was burnt to 65% of my body, so that's a pretty large surface area.
So they put you in an induced coma, I think,
so you're not in an excruciating amount of pain, I suppose,
and so that they can, you know, carry on and do the work
that they, the doctors and the surgeons and all of the, you know,
the medical staff, do all of the work that they need to do
to be able to save your life.
And then I think when everything's looking a little bit,
the outcome's looking a little bit better and that, you know,
you're alive and they think they've saved your life
and you're good to go, for want of a better phrase,
they pull you out of the induced coma.
And what was the first thing you remember when you, I mean,
I don't know how this works, but do you actually just wake up
in the hospital somewhere in Sydney and then you look around
and is there someone there in front of you?
What was the first thing you saw?
Yeah, you know, the first memory I have is of my boyfriend, Michael.
You know, he's looking at me in my eyes and he's like,
Tere, my darling, you're alive, like aren't you so, you know,
I could see in his face.
He was overjoyed that I was still on this planet.
You know, he was so, so happy that I was still there.
And I was in so much pain, Mark, I was in so much like physical pain
that I was like, no, I'm actually not happy to be, you know,
I couldn't talk at the time but that's what I was thinking,
like I'm not actually happy to be alive.
I don't want to be here.
And I didn't realise the extent of my injuries at the time.
It was just because, you know, if you talk to any burns patient,
pain and, you know, maybe this isn't just reserved
for people in the burns unit but for a burns patient,
pain is an essential element of your day-to-day for, you know,
if you've got a big burn like me for months.
So it's very hard for me to understand for obvious reasons
because I haven't experienced it but I'm just going with what you're saying.
But I'm trying to imagine it which is virtually impossible to do, I think.
I can empathise with it but that's sort of not real.
When you say the pain that you were feeling when you first woke up
and you were saying to yourself, like, I'm not that happy to be here,
is that as a result of you thinking to yourself,
I'd rather not put up with this pain, therefore not exist anymore?
Is that actually a thought process?
I don't know and I don't know.
Like have you ever been so sick, Mark, or like so physically unwell
that it sounds a bit grim but like you almost wish you were dead?
Like if you're like violently ill, has that ever happened to you?
No, it doesn't happen to people like Mark.
Or if it has happened, maybe my brain is eliminated
out of my head over the years.
I mean I've had some terrible accidents in my life but, you know,
I don't think I've ever thought that so therefore I haven't been
at that chronic point.
So it's even just like even breathing with the ventilator, you know,
my ribs expanding and contracting, that was painful,
like the process of just breathing.
So it was just I was in my whole world.
My whole world was just blinding pain.
How long did you experience this extraordinary pain for?
Was there a point at which you started going,
oh, should I feel a bit better?
So it does go like that.
You do start to feel, you know, so that was obviously in the earlier days
and as the months progressed, I started to feel less pain and then,
you know, they wean you off.
They wean you off the pain meds.
So there's that kind of balance to consider as well.
But, you know, because I've got such a big burn, you know,
but one of the things I have to do every day is I have to change
your bandages, right?
So because I had such a big burn, 65% of my body, this process
of changing my bandages would go like no shit for hours and hours
I would get so anxious.
I would be in such turmoil thinking about this excruciating bandage change
that I would have to have the next morning.
I would lie awake at night.
I would be, you know, sweating thinking about this pain that I was going
to have to endure the next day.
And I got really lucky in hospital that, you know,
I had an amazing medical team and one of the nurses, you know,
came into my room one day.
She said, look, we've got to watch a TED Talk.
I want you to watch this TED Talk by this guy called Dan Ariely.
I think he's a psychologist but he's also a burn survivor.
So we watched this TED Talk and learned a little bit about his, you know,
he did some studies on pain.
Basically what I got out of it is that if you start with the most painful
area first and you progress through the dressing to the areas
that are less painful, it's going to make your experience or your perception
of that dressing change, of that bandage change, feel less painful.
So what I decided to do was I volunteered to be the first burns patient
to get their bandages changed and it was I think that was part of, you know,
developing that was a start of me developing that little bit of discipline,
you know, eating the frog, doing the worst first.
I asked the nurses to start, you know, be the first patient
to get their dressings changed.
And then I also asked the nurses to start with the most painful areas
of my body first as well because then for me, like I learnt in that TED Talk
and probably like I'd learnt throughout my life, you know,
when the worst is done or when you've got the hardest stuff out of the way,
the rest of your day in comparison feels a little bit easier
or a little bit lighter.
It's interesting.
You started structuring your thinking process at that point.
You know, not too dissimilar to what you do in year 12.
It's about structured thinking which is very much an engineer's process
but, you know, like perhaps all that period of study and work
and also you developing your own brain allows you to sort
of build better understanding of perception because pain's about perception
and, you know, it's your brain telling you something
that you perceive it perceives.
And it sounds like that you were sort of not manipulating
but sort of train your own brain around what you wanted it to do.
Well, if you think about your perception of pain
and anticipating the pain, that makes it so much worse, right?
So if I was lying in bed the night before the bandage change was going to be done
and I was already stressed about it and then in the morning,
when I could hear the nurses in the hallway, you know,
pushing their little trolleys, that would make me even more anxious about it.
And then when I would hear, you know, a burns patient next door screaming
about their bandage change, you know, my heart would already be racing
and there was no one in the room.
There was no nurses in the room.
No one was trying to change my bandages.
But I was already in this state of being worked up and anxious and stressed
and worrying about all of this pain that I was about to endure.
So I don't know if at the time I could have said, you know,
I'm doing this because I want to be more disciplined
and I want to have some structure to my day.
I just watched that TED talk.
I chatted about it with the nurse and, you know, we decided
or maybe she even suggested to me that going first might be a really good way
for me to manage my pain.
But it was a really good lesson.
Lesson for me at that time because it reminded me that I still had agency.
See, when you're a patient in a hospital and you're a patient
in a hospital for months and every day you've got people coming into your room,
you know, they want to poke you and prod you and totally get that they're just
doing their job and they do a really bloody good job as well.
But I think I became a little bit passive in that I didn't realize
or I didn't recognize that it was still my body.
I still had agency.
I still had control over it.
So I think it was a good lesson in reminding me of that.
But it also reminded me that how I thought about things or how I executed things
had a big impact onto how I felt about them, if that makes sense.
And so I think that was the start of me realizing that.
That's very interesting.
It's funny because today, I mean, we hear it on social media a lot
about people getting triggered by something or other.
And off the back of that, I mean, especially younger people talking about it,
and off the back of that we have, you know, a lot of people will say
how they experience some anxiety off the back of the trigger.
In your case, it might have been hearing the trolley coming along
or without them actually removing the bandages,
you actually were experiencing anxiety.
To me, you're actually someone who's probably a black belt in anxiety
in terms of experience, in terms of, you know, like a tenth damn black belt
in terms of experiencing anxiety.
What would you say?
I mean, you obviously talk about these things on your talks.
I mean, you do a lot of talk and a lot of circuits around your experience, etc.
What would you say to people today, particularly younger people,
who are troubled by things that they hear or their sensory perception
of what's going on around them that might be actually triggering or creating a lot
of anxiety in them about something that could be about to happen?
What do you say to these people?
I mean, and obviously that's part of your job these days,
but what do you say to them?
I don't actually speak to that many young people these days,
not because I don't want to but just because life with the kids
and the family is a bit busy.
I do wonder if we are maybe coddling younger people.
So, for example, if you go on social media or if you jump on Instagram
and you find yourself triggered by what you see, for sure that might be
because of the algorithm, but I think also you do have some agency, right?
You could remove Instagram from your phone.
You could follow different people.
You could, you know, you could leave your phone at home.
So you can take all of those actions to make that, you know,
that triggering or that anxiety that you feel about what you're seeing a little less.
That's not to say that everyone who says that they feel triggered
by seeing something on social media is just, you know, it's all in their head
because, you know, we don't know what's going on in someone else's life,
how they've been brought up, what their family life is like.
We don't know any of that.
But I do think there's a little bit of a balance.
I think there may be a bit of danger that we're, you know,
that we might be coddling people as opposed to encouraging them
to take some responsibility.
That's a very good point.
Especially coming from someone like you as opposed to, say,
someone like myself, et cetera.
I mean, coming from someone like you who's actually really experienced deep,
deep trauma, physical trauma and probably the mental trauma as well
that went with it, you know, that's a, to me, I find that to be a deeply,
not only insightful but deeply interesting to me,
deeply interesting commentary from you.
Could you, do you think in an advisory way that for any of us,
probably not so much me, it could happen to me,
it doesn't matter how old I am, but for any of us should make sure
that we do not undervalue the importance of support structures around us.
And I said I was going to park that earlier on.
I'm now un-parking or driving this into the driveway.
Do you think that making sure that we build good support around us,
family, friends, in your case your family and friends,
but also your boyfriend to become your husband,
how important is that as a prospective process that we should undertake
whether or not we end up experiencing the sorts of trauma
that you experienced anyway?
But how important is that and how important was it for you?
Because obviously you pre-did all this, Turia.
You did this earlier without knowing that what was going to happen to you.
How important was it?
But I think the most, it is the most important thing,
relationships are the most important thing and I think that's your relationship
with your spouse, your relationship with your family,
your relationship with your friends, your relationship if, you know,
if you're lucky enough to have a mentor, whatever it is,
I think it is the most important thing.
And it's not, you know, it's not surrounding yourself with people
who blow smoke up your ass and tell you how amazing you are
and how good you are and all of that.
You're like cheerleaders.
Yeah, and like cheerleaders are great as well because sometimes
you feel fragile.
You just want someone to say,
you're doing a good job, right?
You do need cheerleaders.
But if I think about, you know, the constructive feedback I've got,
the person who will always give it to me straight is my husband, Michael.
He'll always tell me if something's shit, if something's not good,
if I haven't done a good enough job.
My dad will tell me as well.
I remember the first time I did a motivational speech,
my dad came with me and afterwards I said,
oh, dad, how do you think I went?
And he said, Terea, that was shit-ass.
You should be embarrassed.
You should be embarrassed that you are charging people money for that
because he said that was terrible.
And he said, I'm sorry to tell you, I'm sorry to be so blunt,
but he said basically like if it's something that you want to pursue,
you're going to have to get better at it,
you're going to have to go see other people how they do it,
you're going to have to get some training because that performance
was like terrible, absolutely terrible, absolutely shit-ass.
But I think you need and I think that's the other thing too, you know,
and maybe even myself, your ego becomes so fragile that you don't like it
if someone says, well, that wasn't good or that wasn't a good enough job
or you need to do better.
Or have you thought about doing it this way?
And I know, you know, if Michael, my husband,
says stuff like that to me, it really hurts my ego because I'll be like,
well, no, everyone else likes it, so why don't you?
But I think as well sometimes you need that close relationship with someone,
that trust with someone for them to be able to tell it straight to you.
You're not always going to like what they have to say,
but I think it's, I'm not good at this either,
but I think it's really good to try and be open-winded,
try and take what they've told you on board.
So cheerleaders are great, but I think you also need people
who are going to be able to give you the, be able to tell you the stuff
that you don't want to hear.
Well, that's, I mean, I often get criticised,
I have been often criticised in my life for being a bit direct.
I'm probably more direct to those people I'm close to.
Is there a way that someone like me who, probably a bit like your dad,
I just say it as it is?
I mean, I don't really have many filters in my system.
Is there a better way to do it or is it just say it as it is
and I know you might, I might crush someone's ego similar
to what your dad did with you on your first motivational talk.
Is that okay or is it maybe, you know, Dad and I,
we need to change the way, is there a midway point where we maybe need
to change our way of talking to people?
Because, you know, at the same time we don't want to crush you.
You know, I wouldn't want to crush my kids or my partner or whatever.
I don't want to crush people.
Do you advise me?
I think, and this might not be right either, Mark,
but maybe giving them a bit of direction.
So if you just say that was shit, you're awful, get out,
that's probably going to crush someone.
But if you say I didn't like that because of X, Y and Z, here's where I,
or, you know, you could say what, you know,
what do you think you could have done to do it a little bit better?
You could put it on them to ask because I think as well sometimes we might lie
We might like to think something's good but I think deep down, you know,
you do always know if you haven't done a good job or if it's not
up to scratch as well.
But, you know, just giving people some directions, Mark,
of what they could try differently or where they could go to,
like my dad did after my speech, right?
He said go see some other speakers in action, go and get some training.
You know, this has got to be a lot more polished.
And I guess to some extent too in your case especially,
substance over form would be really important because, you know,
you don't really want to play the pity card, so to speak.
You know, people clap because, you know, we feel sorry for Toreo.
Like you'd rather, you know, you're an intelligent person
and a trained person and not only that person,
you've actually, you have experienced the trauma.
So you actually went through the trauma yourself.
So you would rather be applauded for your, you know,
your substance and content over and above the form.
And that's a pretty important thing.
That would be an important message to give to somebody, I think.
But I think if I was, you know, if I was just relying on pity,
that probably would have all dried up years and years and years ago.
I mean, I've seen someone for a short term,
but I think you've got to be able to go beyond that.
So I think, yes, substance is good.
I can't remember the other word you used, Mark.
You said substance and something else.
Content and substance over form.
You know, it's not about, you know, what I feel,
but it's about what do you leave me with?
What do I get out of what you just told me, the story you told me?
What am I getting from it?
Like I'm like just talking to you today,
like what I'm getting from you is, you know, discipline, structure, belief,
self-belief, good, you know, I'm getting a lot of important stuff,
like a good support group.
But probably beyond that, having people who talk to me straight.
And I think that that's probably all of those things are quite motivational
in that they sort of give me a direction.
I mean, and not me, I'm talking about me, the listener.
And I'm one of your listeners right now, but me, the listener to you.
I mean, you know, like I can't sit around feeling sorry for myself.
I've got to do something about it.
And that's what I'm getting from the conversation.
And that's what I mean by content and substance.
Is that what you want to leave people with?
I hope if after, you know, listening to this chat, Mark, people feel, you know,
they feel like maybe they can take on that extra project or maybe they can go back
to uni and do extra stuff.
I think that's great.
I also think if someone listens to this conversation and thinks, you know what,
there's someone in my life that I really love and I haven't told them enough,
and they pick up their phone and they call that person and they let them know
because I think, you know, I said it a little bit earlier,
but it's our relationships, our relationships with each other,
with our spouse, with our friends, with our family.
I really think that is the most important thing.
It's the most important thing in our life because if you take away all of those
personal relationships that you've got with people or that, you know,
that network of people that you've got, if you take all of that away,
you're not really left with a whole bunch, are you?
So I think, you know, maybe being a bit vulnerable and not being afraid
to tell people how much they mean to you or how much they love them
because I know for me I was never good at that before this accident.
And I've gotten, you know, I've gotten so much, so much better
at letting people know how much they mean to me.
Like if I, sometimes I like to sort of, this sounds like I'm putting things
into categories, but if I was to, words come to my mind
when I'm doing interviews like this one or just generally words.
You know, the very first word that came into my mind
when we were first talking about your early years was,
was curiosity and structure.
But curiosity was a big thing in terms of, you know, the nerd,
the nerd part of all the discussion.
But what I'm getting out of it now in terms of one word is
gratefulness versus bitterness.
And gratefulness seems like to be an overarching thing that's coming
out of the discussion even though you haven't used that word yet.
But I'm getting a sense of gratefulness from you.
You know what, Mark, if I had have had these injuries,
you know, I wouldn't be here.
I wouldn't be in a developing country.
No question about it.
And I think I've got all of these, you know,
all of these great things in my corner.
I've got this amazing, spunky man.
I've got these two beautiful children.
I get to do work every day that I enjoy doing,
that I find meaningful, that gives my life structure and purpose.
I can go surfing when I want.
You know, I can spend time with my friends and family.
I am genuinely grateful
for this life that I live.
And I think, you know, I feel I even feel really grateful
to the Australian public, right, because that, you know,
that's why you've asked me to be on this interview today, Mark,
because people know about me.
People know about my story.
People in Australia have supported me and my journey from even all
of those years ago during my first 60-minute segment.
You know, I've had nothing
but love and support from the Australian people.
And so I don't want to be bitter because I think, well,
what have I got to be bitter about?
Because you've got all of these amazing things,
all of these amazing things.
You've got all of these things that are working for you
and not against you.
Well, what you're doing is you're giving me as part
of your audience right now a great deal of perspective.
I mean, and I find that every now
and then we all need a good uppercut.
You know, I can wake up this morning feeling like a bit shit
because I might have something bothering me,
and then you're just giving me perspective,
which is basically me giving myself an uppercut.
And I think that's important.
I think we all need to have that.
I mean, I really do.
I just think we just need to get a cop a sort of a clip every now
and then and just sit back for a second, Mark,
and I think our audience needs to do the same thing.
What's the future, Doria?
What's ahead of you now?
What's ahead of me?
Apart from being a mum and all that other stuff.
I am on deadline for my next book, which is a little bit
about the mental load, a little bit about motherhood.
So it's going to be really interesting to see how that all turns
That's due in a couple of months.
So that's pretty much what I'm working on at the moment.
And then I've got my running program.
I've got a group of runners who are taking
on Queenstown Marathon at the end of the year.
So I really want to make sure that that's going
to be something that I'm giving them the, you know,
the support, being a cheerleader for them but also giving them a bit
of a stern talking to when I think they need it.
And your book, by sounds of it, is going to be ready for Christmas.
Is that about right?
No, it's due this year.
It won't come out until next year.
It won't come out until next year.
It won't come out until next year.
So is it maybe a good Mother's Day present or a good present sort
I think it's an excellent present in 2025 for the women but also
for the men if they want to read my take on it as well.
I'll send you a copy, Mark.
Don't you worry about it.
I was going to ask you if you wouldn't and please sign it.
Will you say something on the inside of the book because
that makes it really valuable if it comes from you personally.
I'd love to have something like that.
Yeah, no worries.
Toria, like I've never met you before.
I obviously know about your story.
Not obviously but I know about your story and I pay attention
But I think as an Australian, to me, you epitomise in a lot
of ways anyway what lots of us sort of dream about, a strong woman,
a strong mother, a great partner but a person who actually sort
of doesn't mind openly talking about the virtues that sort
of keep her going and, as I said earlier, things like gratefulness,
Those virtues, they're old fashioned but we rarely ever talk about them.
I rarely talk about them and I want to thank you for reminding me
and I guess probably the balance of our audience too and all those people
who know Toria Pitt, reminding us of those important things in life outside
of Instagram, outside of social media, outside of all our anxieties
and worries and concerns but reminding us of those important virtues
that basically drive us in our life.
And I've had this whole discussion has been motivational
and inspirational to me.
I'm so appreciative of being able to do podcasts to meet people
Like it's a big deal for me and even at 68 years of age,
it's just the start of my life and thanks for being part of it.
Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Mark.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, it was good.
I enjoyed it too.
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