107 Abbie Chatfield Reality Check On Business Backlash And Being Real

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I'm Mike Boris and this is Straight Talk.

People think that,

I'm some, like, tough, heartless bitch.

I'm deeply, deeply insecure.

A lot of, like, self-hatred and criticism.

A lot that I think people don't really see.

Abby Chatfield!

I feel like this 15 minutes of fame thing,

like, I'm gonna lose it all.

I never thought that I'd be able to do anything like this.

Bachelor and Masked Singer, all these wild things.

I feel like I should take the opportunities.

Why do you do it?

I think that I was just trying to, like,

trying to always be panicked,

so that I felt like I was productive

or maybe worth something in a strange way.

Do you know what I really want to ask you?

Sure, go for it.

I really want to know...

Abby Chatfield, welcome to Straight Talk.

Now, we just were talking, because, you know,

you've got a degree in property.

Yes.

What's the degree called?

The actual name of the degree?

It's a Bachelor of Property Economics.

It's a very strange thing for me to have.

It's a property?

You know, that makes sense.

Yeah.

So, you are a property owner.

We were just talking about owning a property in Bangalow,

which is the place you go and hide out.

Oh, well, Bangalow is just, what, 15 minutes back from Byron.

It's such a beautiful little town.

I'm actually from the Gold Coast, Brisbane, originally.

So, when lockdown happened,

I wanted to buy a place that I could be closer to mum,

but in case borders closed again,

I could still go back in Sydney, if that makes sense.

I was paranoid.

But was your address Queensland or New South Wales?

New South Wales, but I grew up at the Gold Coast.

But how did you get over the border?

Because I remember during COVID,

you couldn't get over the border.

If you had a New South Wales address.

Yeah, no, I couldn't.

I couldn't actually do it, but I meant more like in the future,

if borders close, I'll have a place that's close enough

that mum could come down in.

Remember, there was the border bubble for a little while.

I had hopes about that.

That included Bangalow, by the way.

Included Bangalow.

So, I had hopes about it.

It never actually materialised.

But I had a friend that lived around there,

and I was at their place a lot and loved it.

And I wanted somewhere that was away from Sydney,

but I was very silly.

I bought this place over a Zoom auction without seeing it

in person, without finance approval.

Oh, my God.

I know.

Property economics, Dave 101.

Well, I had the deposit.

I had a huge fat deposit.

I knew I'd get approved, and I saw it on the Monday,

and the auction was the Sunday.

So, it was in the works.

My accountant is also a mortgage broker,

so he was like, it'll be fine.

And it was fine.

But it was touch and go there for a moment,

because I gave him my deposit over,

and I didn't have the financial approval yet.

But it all worked out.

A lot of people I know go and,

you know, hide out in Byron,

because, you know, their life is pretty hectic.

How important is it for you to escape,

and what are you escaping from?

The noise?

What the hell is it?

Yeah, I mean, it's really important for me to go up there.

Every year I've had it, so the past two summers,

I've gone up for four to six weeks,

going up for five this time.

And it's important for a few reasons.

The main reason, honestly,

is that it's close enough to my Brisbane friends,

my family, that everyone's keen to come down still,

and I can see them in, like, a very chilled environment.

So convenient.

Yeah, and also my friends from Sydney want to go up there.

They don't want to go to Brisbane.

They don't care about Brisbane.

So I was like, I'll get a house that everyone is excited about.

But I think as well, I live in Bondi.

It's very hectic.

I love the beach a lot, but I need to –

my place has very bad reception.

So there's the excuse that –

Up there, up there.

Yeah, which I'm very happy about.

So it's the excuse for no one to speak to me,

because I feel like when I'm down here,

everyone can kind of get at me.

Like, I can do extra podcast records,

do voiceovers, do ads,

quickly just run and go and do this thing.

There's a million things that add up,

because I have so many different income streams,

so many different responsibilities to different people,

different networks, that I get –

I feel like everyone wants me to do one thing that's a second.

You know, oh, let's take 10 minutes.

But it feels like your entire day doing all this.

So when I'm away, there's a clear boundary.

It's more about the boundary of, okay, from December 10th,

no one talked to me.

Do your friends know it?

Does business know it?

Do your business know it?

Yeah, my managers know it,

and I'll do things if it's really important,

but I kind of put like a hard and fast boundary,

because I'm very bad with putting boundaries with work,

because everything overlaps so much with me.

So it's important for me to –

my managers are really good in putting that boundary in for me,

and also even if I'll say, I'm bored, can I do some work?

They'll say, no, you need to have a rest,

because I was – I think I burnt myself out this year.

So I've been – I feel like I'm crawling towards the finish line

right now to get there, yeah.

Yeah, because it just – I mean, I haven't met you before,

but just by listening to you speak now, you're a high-energy person.

That requires a lot of revs and a lot of carbs, a lot of everything.

I mean, that requires a lot of revs.

And I often wonder with people like yourself, do you go, just stop?

I think it's just a stop.

I mean, I try to recharge.

I try to do a lot of different hobby.

I get so bored, although I love oiling the deck and gardening.

So I like have my like retirement fantasy even though I'm 28.

I don't know.

I'm like mum bought me a hoe last year for Christmas.

It was a big, fun thing.

I see my family.

I see my friends.

I try to not really go on my phone.

I try to recharge, but it's difficult because we're all still

so connected to our phones.

I'm still panicking about everything.

But, yeah, I think I try to just sit and sleep in and not set alarms

and do all those things because so much of my life is dictated

by other people and their schedules, and I have to fit into those schedules

as well as my own.

Yeah.

My dogs, my mums, and everyone around me.

I mean, five weeks is a long time.

Six weeks is even longer.

It's worse.

Worse?

For me, you know what I mean?

For me, for me.

But, like, do people like you suffer from boredom or do you indulge

in busyness?

And if you're indulging in business, are you trying to run away

from something?

I mean, you're trying to make yourself so fucking busy that you're

forgetting about something.

You're skimming the shits.

Yeah.

Look, you're actually right.

I think that I use business to avoid my emotions, to be honest.

I'm quite avoidant.

And, I mean, fair enough.

There's a lot of therapy about it because I just, the start of this

year, for example, I was filming, so I got back on January 17th

from my time away.

I had my five-day-a-week radio show.

I had my two-day-a-week podcast.

I was getting ready to film FBoy Island, which was my first big

hosting gig, and that includes obviously doing, you know,

it's like wardrobe pre-production.

I was trying to be really involved in it because I really cared

about it.

And then when we were filming, I was doing, you know, radio in the

mornings.

I was pre-recording it for the night time to go out.

Then I'd go straight from finishing doing that in my Airbnb to be on set

from about 8 a.m. to 11 p.m., also doing the socials.

Also, I had a clothing brand at the time.

And I think that I was just trying to always be panicked so that I felt

like I was productive or maybe worth something in a strange way.

That was a bit hectic.

Sorry, Mark.

I'm very open.

No, no, no.

Cool.

It's good.

So just take me through.

So most people don't understand that if you're doing a TV show,

a lot of times they get filmed in the beginning of January so that they

can be put up in May, June when it's a busy period.

But that means when everyone else is on holidays, you're kicking off.

So you're doing FBoy Straight Up.

What is it, a tour period?

What were we talking about here?

It was only three weeks.

Three-week production period?

Super fast, yeah.

How many episodes does it get out?

Ten episodes.

You get ten episodes in three weeks?

That's mad.

Yeah, it was an episode a day.

Yeah, wow.

So you got from the 17th of January through to some other date in February, you got three

weeks banging that out.

At the same time, you're doing a podcast?

Yep.

You actually-

So actually, filming started in February.

Yep.

But the weeks before then, I was pre-recording half of the radio show, so there'd be less

to do during it and pre-recording the podcast as much as I could.

What else were you doing?

You weren't writing a book or something?

What else were you doing?

Well, I also had a live tour that was going to start the week after I got back from filming.

So basically, it was called the Trauma Dump Tour and I didn't really know what I was going

to do.

But I just had a tour booked in, so I just sort of winged it.

And I spoke about my dating history, my very funny dating history via a PowerPoint.

So I had to do all of that.

My assistant at the time helped with that.

So I finished filming and then had to write the show, a three-hour show by myself on stage

talking shit.

And then FBoy Island started airing and then Masked Singer started filming the same week.

And then we finished Masked Singer in July.

FBoy Island, I'm also in the socials for that.

And then in July.

I quit radio.

You quit radio this year?

Yep.

Yeah, but prior to that, though, you were doing a radio show five days a week.

Yeah.

So this is the chaos.

Well, it's not only chaos, though.

It sort of would be a big chaos.

But do you sleep at night?

Only since I've had my medication for my ADHD.

But I'm also renovating my apartment as well, side note.

In Bondi?

In Bondi.

That can be a real punish.

Yeah, a bit of a nightmare, yeah.

But yeah, I sleep.

I sleep well.

I just...

I think that I wake up in a stressed way, if that makes sense.

I go to sleep easily, but I'll wake up at 5.30 like, you know, like, oh, my God, I've got so many things to do.

Do you wake up with a headache?

I get migraines.

Do you?

And they've gotten much worse lately.

So I don't often wake up with a headache.

But throughout the day, if something's happening, it feels like my...

I went to hospital for a migraine recently and a kidney infection two weeks after that.

So my body's kind of shutting down after the nightmare.

So how old are you?

28.

Do you get worried about the...

The pace?

Yeah, yeah.

I get worried about the pace.

I get worried about...

Carrie Bickmore said to me, I was speaking to her about it when I was really stressed.

I saw her at some event.

And she said to me that I need to make sure that I don't do everything that I want to do so quickly.

Because I'll get bored and I'll burn myself out.

And what's the point of doing all of it in three years when I could take my time and kind of grow and actually enjoy it?

So I do get worried about burning myself out.

I went to a Thai retreat for five.

Five days in July where I was meant to have no one talk to me.

It kind of worked.

My blood's done.

It was like a health retreat, like a medical retreat.

And everything seemed to be fine.

But I am really worried about my body because, like I said, I had a kidney infection directly after quitting radio.

Migraines.

I've been really ill, really tired, really burnt out.

I feel like I'm barely holding on, to be honest.

Which is insane because right now I'm not doing much.

This is the biggest thing of my day.

So why am I so stressed?

Why do you do it?

I think there's a few reasons.

I think the biggest reason is that I came from a corporate background.

I never thought that I'd be able to do anything like this.

I kind of accidentally got this platform, obviously from The Bachelor, and it was all just kind of like whirlwind-y.

And when you get thrown opportunities that you never thought you'd be even able to do a photo shoot, let alone host a TV show, or be on The Masked Singer, all these wild things.

I think I just feel like I should do it.

I should take the opportunities that I'm given, but that backfires because I can't say no to anything because I'm like, well, it's fun.

It'll be fun.

And it is fun.

I'm sure you're like, it is fun when you're doing it, but you're exhausted and all of your energy is given to other people.

I think I do it because of that reason.

I think I do it because I feel like this 15 minutes of fame thing, like I'm going to lose it all, so I should earn as much money as I can, put it away, invest it, and then I'll lose it all.

Yeah.

I'll be okay and give some to mom and sister or whatever.

I think that it's also that I probably am a little bit, yeah, I think it's ADHD as well, multitasking, but I think it's also that I get a lot of validation from work.

And I always have.

Like I had three jobs in grade 12 to like keep things going and, you know, and I've always worked really hard.

So I have that kind of an addiction to working.

So here you are working in a corporate environment in your early twenties.

Paint me through how you got.

I mean, how did that happen?

Did you put your name up or did someone dare you or how's it all work?

Well, I thought it was so silly.

I was dating this guy from Scotland.

He moved to Australia.

It didn't work out.

It wasn't nothing dramatic, just whatever.

Whoops.

That was a holiday romance.

Made a mistake.

He moved to Australia now.

We broke up and then my housemate was like, oh, it'd be so funny if you got in The Bachelor.

So we kind of jokingly applied.

The both of you?

Yeah.

Both of us applied.

And then rehearsals, auditions were the next day.

For some weird reason, I got a call up and the next day I checked a sickie at work at my corporate job and went in.

What's your audition like?

What do you do?

Oh, okay.

So like it was at a hotel.

I think it's different now because it's all via Zoom now because of COVID.

This is the last in-person audition that I know of from The Bachelor.

They could have changed now.

You go to a hotel, you go to like a conference room, you're put into groups and you go in

and it's kind of like first day of high school or first day of uni, get to know each other

things.

It's like they'll play a song.

They'll play a song and be like this group dance in a contemporary way, this group dance

in a hip hop way or whatever.

And they'll make you-

Yeah, it's a cringe.

It's a cringe.

And I was kind of like, oh God, Jesus Christ.

I wish I was at work.

What is that going to tell anyone about you?

I guess how into it you are and how outgoing you are.

Oh, if you've got a big personality.

Yeah, maybe.

Yeah.

And then the question I think that, I don't know, it made them, they asked me what I'd

change.

About myself at the first question.

They're like, well, what do you change about yourself?

And I was like, oh, my hoofs, like my feet.

Like they really, like.

What's wrong with them?

No, they're really bad.

That's why I'm covering them up with an attention seeking crock.

Look how hoofy they are.

They look like.

Look pretty good.

Look okay.

No, you have to say that because now I've said they're ugly.

No, no.

If you said, oh yeah.

They're too long or something or what's the deal?

No, they're just like, they're just, my best friend gets physically sick when she sees

them.

They look like a man's feet.

A little bit.

I mean, sorry.

They do.

Yeah.

No, but that just means you can run and you're, you're, you're, uh, you know, stable.

It is shush.

I don't know.

I'm great at yoga.

I'll bet you are.

I'm great at balancing.

Can you run?

Uh, yeah, kind of.

Yeah.

I can run for a long time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I guess the weight's getting distributed on my man.

Sorry, let's go back to the audience.

Sorry.

So I was like, no, I would change my feet.

Yeah.

Um, and it was like a silly answer.

I think I was just silly.

And then they'd make you do, um, line up in guessing oldest to youngest and, and then

yeah.

Uh, you have a second audition, uh, that night you stayed back.

And then six weeks later I was in the mansion.

Like it was very chaotic and I, I got leave from work, unpaid leave from my job in property.

Um, and yeah, then I was there for the full three months without talking to anyone.

So did you ever think to yourself, um, okay, here we go.

Like, um, I can build my, I can build a following and build social media.

I can somehow leverage this or monetize this, this, this opportunity.

Or do you just think, uh, it's just a bit of a fun thing.

I'll just go and do it.

I just thought it was silly.

I thought it was a funny, I've always do things like for the story.

I was like, the girls will find this funny.

So I did it cause I thought it was silly.

I also was very, I had an on and off boyfriend that continued only until like last year,

like 10 years.

Um, that I was like 10 year on and off.

Yeah.

I know, but it's off now.

It's fully, it's been a fully off for six months now.

Proud of myself.

I'm more than that.

Maybe almost a year.

Um, but yeah, I think I was like trying to get away from him and he told me to go.

And then, yeah, I just thought it was silly.

And then when I got back, I quit my nine to five with the people that I hated and I had

to get a different nine to five because I was so, I'd just been, I was just getting

trolled and I would be so mentally damaged from the whole experience.

I got a really easy job just doing admin rather than being an analyst.

Cause I was like, I just want to get to work at enough money.

And I worked in property for the next six months until I did Bachelor in Paradise.

So I didn't really think anything of it.

I was like, all right, well, that was silly.

Um, and at the time there wasn't, there's huge money on socials now.

It was money, but it wasn't like it is now.

Yeah.

You wouldn't be able to see forward either at that time.

I mean, you wouldn't have known.

Yeah, totally.

So I was like, I thought I'd go on and go for one night and get a little, get an address

and go home.

But yeah, all this has come from it.

So it's crazy.

So Abby, did you know, or did anyone advise you?

Probably not because you, I guess, sound like a bit naive at the time, but did anyone ever

say to you, okay, Abby Chatfield, let me just tell you something, um, in this show, the

way we run these shows is we pick heroes and villains and we're going to, and you will

cast you one way or the other.

And if you're in the middle, you're only going to last a couple of weeks or a couple of episodes

and you're going to be out, which is no point doing, cause that's a waste of fucking time.

So you're only going to be one or the other, but the heroes always win and the villains,

um, you know, get dragged along a little bit.

So did anyone tell you that?

Because you were a bit of a villain or you were cast as a bit of a villain.

I was a villain, but I was just horny and young.

Like when you actually watch the show, I didn't do anything.

I mean, I don't mean any bad villain, but no, I know it's just villain.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It was interesting.

Like the, the, the backlash was really strange.

I was actually spoken to the producers about it because I'm obviously now on TV and I know

a lot of the crew and I don't blame them at all, but we've spoken about it.

And one of them who was in post said, I didn't even think there'd be like that bad of a backlash.

I thought it was like, oh, like she's horny and silly and she's humping him on the beach

and ha ha ha.

She wants to kiss him.

But like the backlash from conservative Australia was wild.

Like I'd watch it with my friends and my girlfriends and I'd be like,

oh, it wasn't bad.

And then we'd look on Twitter and it was like, like, I don't know, like paragraph long death

threats about like how they're going to kill me.

Like, yeah, because I'd humped him on a beach and I said, I want to have sex with him in

the water.

And I was like, you guys try kissing someone for three months and having sex with them.

Get a grip.

So you guys try.

Okay.

We produce around you all the time.

So, um, yeah, I didn't know that I was going to be a villain.

I thought I was going to be a sook because I cried every day that I was there.

It was actually really bad.

I was like, when the girls were being really awkward.

I would take a sleeping pill every night to go to sleep and to sleep as long as I could

before filming.

And then we'd get up and just sit there and just want it to be over and just want to be

with Matt.

Um, so yeah, I didn't know that I was going to be a villain, but there were, there was

a time where they wanted me to start a fight with someone, um, to talk about it.

And every party that would make me do it.

And I was like, I actually just want to go to sleep.

Like, I actually want to do this anymore.

I don't care about this.

I don't care about these people.

I don't know them.

They're strangers.

I want to go home.

I want to go to sleep.

And, um, they kept trying to do like production tactics being like, oh, but you know, we think

it's important.

And I was just like, listen, if I go and talk to her, can I go to bed?

They're like, yeah.

And I was like, great.

Okay.

I'll go and sit and let her talk to me and let her yell at me.

So like, it was that kind of, I wasn't silly.

Like I was like, I know that we're making a TV show here.

If you want good TV, I'll go and sit and I'll let her yell at me for it.

Cause that's sort of like one of the things they're trying to do when they're trying to

cast the, cast the, you know, build a cast.

They're looking who's going to give you good energy.

Who's going to make it interesting.

Um, who might do a bit of crazy shit, um, who can not, not necessarily cast a villain

in terms of being a bad person, but I mean, um, let the audience decide who they want

to like and who they don't want to like.

So some of the audience decided they didn't like some of your antics.

Uh, would you, would you say Australians are fairly judgmental?

Cause you mentioned the word conservative and conservative can be judgmental.

Yeah.

I think that, I think there's like quite a big divide.

I think that.

Either we're really, really progressive and really like do whatever the fuck you want.

I don't care.

I'm trying to feel like very still laid back, but I think that is a huge portion that are

very judgmental.

And I think it also obviously leans into tall poppy syndrome and people thinking that, um,

I think a huge thing as well in my whole career has been people thinking that I'm some master

manipulator that's gotten this career, like, and if I was good on me, but I've kind of

just fallen into all of these, all these roles and I've been kind of told that I'm yes, I'm

a master.

Strategic.

Yes.

Strategic, which.

So you don't think you are.

I think I am now.

I think like this year I am like, I think I've understood the industry more, but everything's

just been so like, like I started the podcast because I had nothing else to do in lockdown.

So I recorded it myself on my living room floor, drinking red wine, thinking that it was silly.

Like I didn't start the podcast thinking like, it's going to be moneymaker.

Like I didn't think I'd make money from it.

So I kind of was quite naive about the whole industry.

So I think that.

I think.

I think Australia is, can be very judgmental, but I think that we pick our, like you said

before, like heroes and villains, but in society as a whole, and it's very hard to change people's

perception on people.

Like I'm sure you've noticed in Australian media, there's like 15 people that get the

jobs for every single thing.

And once you're in that kind of click, it's very hard to take them out of it.

Similarly, once you get like a mark against your name, it's hard to people to want to

work with you again.

So I think we are judgmental.

But I think as well, we're very like loyal as a whole.

Yeah.

So because there is a bit of a divide, um, and it seems as though the ones who are judging

against you can be the most noisy people.

They tend to be the ones that make the most noise.

And you mentioned, I think it was Twitter.

Um, you said they come out after you on Twitter.

What is your response when you see something like that?

Like if you see someone coming after you, um, like I remember when Twitter first started up.

Many, many, many years have been a long, long time.

Yeah.

Um, I remember some guy from Perth.

Perth had a crack at me about something or other, and I was so incensed about it.

This is, you know, I was being idiot, but I was so incensed about it.

I invited the guy to stay where he was, give me his address.

I'll fly over and see him.

And, uh, and I, uh, cause this is the early days, you know, really early days.

And these days, I mean, I wouldn't keep, couldn't give a shit.

Yeah.

And, but wrong reaction to be honest with you.

Just a waste of energy from my point of view.

Why did you start to react?

How did you deal with these, let's call them trolls?

Yeah.

How did you deal with them?

Well, during.

It's, it's interesting because obviously I still get trolled.

I mean, I think I uploaded something yesterday morning, laughing at someone just saying you're

shit.

It's like, okay, cool, dude.

Silly.

But at the time initially, yeah, it was really hard.

Like you said, when it first happens, you have this reaction where you're like, this

is so unjust.

Like, what do you mean?

It's unfair.

And you think like, even if I was, even if I was, you know, such a bitch, these girls

in the show, like I'm not killing someone.

I was killing their firstborn on TV just cause I like made out with him aggressively.

Like go up.

But I think that initially my friends were really a really big support because they would

take my phone and they would like delete any mean DMS and then give it back to me.

Like when we watch the show stuff, that was a great support.

So I kind of was sheltered from it, but it was really hard.

Like I got, I definitely had like, was suicidal because it was really, yeah, it was relentless.

It was like.

As in actually suicidal.

Like.

Like I was like, I wasn't going out of bed.

My mum was really worried about me.

I was living with her because I ended my lease to go on the show.

And I came back and I was, I wasn't strong enough to live alone really afterwards, um,

for a little while.

So living with mum still, mum, I'd moved back to mums and mum was so worried about me and

she would, um, she told me later on that she'd come and check on that I was still breathing

when I was asleep because she was scared that I was, cause I was just crying all day.

I just wasn't getting out of bed.

I would go to work and my boss would put me in an office so I could cry while I was working

because I was just every, I'd, every news.

Yeah.

My magazine articles just like blatantly lying about me saying that I had a love child from

him saying that I like saying that I like putting false quotes out and no one caring.

Um, the, the Instagram DMS with like direct death threats, um, like as in, I'm going to

kill you.

Like I'm going to come and strangle you.

And I, and I, like, I still, I've got them even, um, two years ago when I bought my house

and my address got leaked, even with the postcode in it, I went, I need to put the postcode in

the death threat, but, um, the cops can't do anything.

I also was getting followed paparazzi, which was very strange because I had a nine to five.

I'd walk from the train station to my work and have some man following me with a camera

or chasing me around, just speeding and driving.

I had one pap, you know, a few months into being anyone try to get in my car.

Like I'm Britney Spears.

I'm like, it's fine.

Like I'm just to go on the bachelor.

Like, it's not that exciting.

So it was all very, it was very stressful and I felt like everyone hated me.

I go to work and not wear makeup and straighten my hair because I've obviously very curly

hair.

I would turn on the radio and she's apologised for it now.

But Abby from Abby Stab and Matt, um, was interviewing Matt.

I was in a cab and there was an interview about how all of Australia would hate him

if he chose me because I'm so disgusting and because I'm such an awful person.

I'm on the way to work.

My corporate outfit being like, so it was like, it was everywhere I turned because bachelor

was much bigger then.

Yeah.

And, um, more ubiquitous, you know, and it was just very, it was really hard to, um,

feel like everyone hated me.

So the only thing that helped was being with my friends in real life who I were like, this

is so weird.

You're getting trolled.

Like what's going on.

Um, and would have little watching parties with me for every single episode because they

were worried about me.

Did you watch it back?

Yeah.

Cause I had to, to do interviews about it.

So I had to watch it back to see what was edited, to see what was Frankenbitten, which

is fair on the scene.

It's um, when you get like singular words or parts of words and create sentences.

Um.

I had to figure out how to defend myself.

So yeah, it was pretty awful.

Um, but as time went on, I cared less and less, particularly when I was steadfast in

my views about things and when I could speak back as well and speak about the editing and

speak about, regardless of the editing, the strange perception that I was this evil person

because I said that I wanted to have sex with him, someone that I was dating for three months.

Um, and then yeah, anti-vaxxers and then all the other things that I'm like, I'm very steadfast

in my views.

Anti-vaxxers?

Yeah.

Cause I was very pro-vaccine.

I come from a family of doctors and dentists and teachers.

So we're very like pro-medicine and I was very pro-vaccine.

Um, uh, I even, yeah, I did a whole series where I got doctors and nurses to dispel rumors

about the vaccine.

I was like very hectically, nothing else to do in lockdown.

Um, and I would go on my stories every day and yell about it.

So the anti-vaxxers, then that started a whole new wave of death threats, but I didn't really

mind.

If you're in Bangalore.

Yeah.

That's like the, um, anti-vaxxer heaven.

Yeah.

At the same time.

If, I mean, if I was a cynical person, I might say, well, Abby, maybe you are strategic and,

um, smarter than you want to make out.

And, um, you're not very, not really tactical.

We probably are tactical, but you're really strategic in that it doesn't really matter

at the end of the day, if 50% of the people hate you and 50% of the people love you, 50%

of the people who love you is a pretty big number.

That's true.

Of the base, of the denominator.

Hmm.

Um, and, uh, and off the back of that, you can commercialize something and no doubt you,

you have commercialized whether it's knowingly or not, but what would you say to someone

like me who might make that, uh, give that view of you that you are strategic?

Like, for example, picking, I believe in it, in other words, I believe in vaccination.

Yeah.

I understand the part.

I don't mean that you lied, but picking that topic to take public during a period where

it's very controversial, that might seem to be strategic to somebody.

Well, the thing is with that.

Well, the thing is with that is, again, I grew up in a family of dentists and doctors

and teachers where anyone that was an anti-vaxxer of any kind was a bloody idiot.

And we'd have family discussions about it from when I was five years old, going the

bloody idiots and bloody mullumbimby, bloody not having their bloody fucking vaccines.

Fuck it.

So like my family, very politically aggressive.

We've all, I've always grown up having very vocalized political views.

Prosecute their views.

Yes.

And like, I've never had a conversation at Christmas.

It's like housework.

It's always like, what do you bloody think about fucking Trump?

Fuck.

Like, it's like always like us yelling together in a harmonious yell.

So I think that I've always been naturally vocal.

So it's not that big of a deal for me to go on my stories.

It's more that like, I acknowledge the positive outcomes of that.

But I was, A, genuinely, I'm very much like a fighter back out.

Like I will vocalize my views.

And I think there were so many fallacies and so many things.

It was so clearly.

Wrong.

Like even the 5G chip and then also the anti-Semitism that came with it and all this weird kind

of QAnon niche stuff that I'm really interested in.

I kind of wanted to talk about it and I was living alone.

So no one else to fucking talk to, except for my stories.

I also very selfishly wanted to get the fuck out of lockdown.

And it was that period where it was like, if we get to 80% vaccination, we can all leave

our houses.

And I was like, get fucking vaccinated.

But I do acknowledge that it was, it was a positive step forward.

It was, it was a positive step for my career.

I think that, I think I got like a hundred thousand followers from that period.

But it definitely wasn't motivated by that.

A lot of my stuff is just motivated by me seeing something, being incensed about it

and then going on rants.

Like when I look for podcast content, I just look for something to make me angry and then

I'll like save it.

And then I'll come back and watch it again before on the way to the podcast and then

yell about it.

So it's more like a void to yell in.

My senses.

And then talking to you there is that we've been brought up in an environment with a family

where you prosecute views and you don't give a shit whether it offends anyone because your

family just don't get offended because everybody's prosecuting views.

So it's okay.

Yeah.

Therefore you think that I can do this in the broader community, the broader public,

but people are much more sensitive outside of families.

My family is the same.

Like you can say what you like, I have four sons.

Everybody says what they like.

And it doesn't really matter whether someone is a bit softer or sensitive about it at all.

But equally, we've all started to learn is that externally, you can't be like that with

everybody else.

I mean, is that something you're starting to come to terms with or do you think it doesn't

matter?

Just say what you fucking like.

I think it doesn't matter.

They can just say whatever the fuck they like.

I think that as well, a huge, I guess if you call this a strategy, when I was in The Bachelor,

I felt like everyone was looking for a reason to fucking hate me.

And I felt like maybe if I had all these skeletons in my closet about my views or about how I

felt or about what I'd done, like I had an abortion or things like that.

If all these skeletons were in my closet, I had something to lose, something to risk.

So I guess my strategy is more so being like, all right, well, this is who I am and this

is how I feel.

And this is what I'm going to fucking say.

And here's why.

Here's my explanation.

Post, done.

Because then I feel like no one can hold anything over me.

So I guess-

So in other words, take control of it.

Yes.

Take control of the narrative.

Write the narrative.

Yeah.

And that's a huge privilege that I have.

Being in The Bachelor.

Yeah.

Being in the public eye in this era rather than, you know, in the early 2000s with tabloids

would just say whatever they wanted and that's how everyone got their information about people.

Now I can go through Daily Mail articles that are completely fucking false and like laugh

about them on my stories.

I mean, that's not to say that I don't go, oh, that'd be great content.

Like I'm not naive to that.

But I think the main motivation, honestly, just me needing to like word vomit, which sounds

like bullshit.

I can see your face.

No, it doesn't sound like bullshit.

It doesn't sound like bullshit.

But equally, you're a young person and over time, I mean, I've been through the process,

you're mellow.

It doesn't become that fucking intensely important over time.

Yeah.

But it seems like it's intensely important to you at the moment.

Well, I think that it's becoming less.

Yeah.

Like in the past year or two, I've been a bit less, like it used to be every single

thing that I saw that upset me.

I'd post about it and rant about it.

But now I've realized that, yeah, I have kind of mellowed in your words, which is surprising

because I'm still very intense.

But I think that I've kind of gotten to like picking my battles and things that I can really

understand and I can have the time to research to a decent degree and understand different

perspectives.

I've also kind of tried to be more open to even platforming views that aren't the same

as mine so that I can kind of challenge myself.

So does that have an effect on your relationships because sometimes someone who's sort of prosecutes

everything and is fully intense can be a bit of a punish, I mean, to the other side, if

they're not the same or if they are the same, it can be like a murder scene pretty much.

But if they're not the same, if they're chilled, how do you go about in relationships?

Do you look for someone who's the opposite to you or do you look for someone who's the

same so you can be equally stimulated?

I mean, what do you, what do you, what do you chase after?

See, I kind of alternate.

I swing, I pinch, I'm single right now, but I swing back and forth.

I'm either with something, someone as intense as me and then like you said, it's a bloody

murder scene.

And then I swing back and then I'm bored as batshit because someone's not challenging

me.

What about in between?

I haven't found that.

But would you look for that?

I mean, would you like, would you have a list that you'd say, okay, perhaps I've got to

be a, I don't know, just pick a medical professional.

Yeah.

Someone who writes a lot of papers, does a lot of research and is researching important

stuff.

Yeah.

A. Doesn't want kids.

You know, have you, have you sort of done your application form to build out who applies?

No, cause I didn't want kids until like six months ago when suddenly my hormones decided

that now all I want is a baby.

I don't know what is going on.

Well, that's called hormones.

So I can't trust, I can't trust myself.

I'm like, I don't know what the fuck is happening.

Yeah, but you can build a five-year plan, you can sort of have a five-year application

form.

So, and put it out there sort of thing.

I could, couldn't I?

I don't mean literally.

But, but like, you know.

Yeah.

Athletic, chilled, but not chilled, but you know, has views, et cetera, knows who I am,

respects me for what I am.

Yeah.

You know, do you, do you have that sort of, sort of checklist?

Because people I know who have been like you in my past, tend to have checklists and they,

then they, they change the checklist every couple of years.

And by the way, some people say you're erratic if you change your checklist, but other people

will say to you, no, no, you're just evolving.

Yeah.

I don't think I have a checklist.

I think I should get a checklist though, because I don't really know what.

Yeah.

Maybe you could just, you could lay it down a little bit.

I know, but I can't meet anyone.

This is the issue though with dating, side note, is I can't meet anyone because I'm banned

from all dating apps.

Are you really?

People think that I'm fake.

You're banned?

They report me.

They report me and I'm permanently banned from all dating apps.

No.

Tell me about that.

Yes.

Because when I first got off the show, I was like, well, now that my contract's over, I

can date people.

Went on to download it at Hinge and then it immediately deleted my account because it

looked like it was a fake account.

No.

So Hinge, all of them, Raya haven't accepted me yet.

So now I have to meet people the organic way, at the Logies.

Old school.

Yeah.

How'd you go?

Not well.

Well, there's another one coming up.

Is it one this year?

It's been this year.

I went home at 9.30, was bored and sober.

Oh my God.

I was with Husey and Chrissy Swan who don't drink, so we were all just like a bit tired.

The actors are next year, fingers crossed, who knows.

But like, I'm just like, it's hard for me to have a criteria.

But I'm like, who is there to date?

So do you miss not dating somebody?

Yeah.

I'm always like seeing someone, but I feel like I, it's, yeah, it's hard for me to find

someone who like understands what I do for work and respects it and acknowledges that

it's a real job.

I've dated guys before that they're friends at parties, they've gone, what do you do for

work?

And I'll just go, oh, I've got a podcast.

Just because it's the easiest thing to say.

You're not going to go, um, I'm a, I'm not going to be wanker.

I'll just go, I've got a podcast.

And one of them said to me, um, that's a hobby, not a job.

And I was like, oh, okay.

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Well, at more than you did in a year last quarter.

But so, okay, you wanker.

But so like, it's hard for me to be with someone who isn't in the industry because their friends

are like, she sucks.

And then if someone is in the industry, they're all a bit batshit.

But so am I.

Which is probably what everybody is.

Because that is a pretty, it's a pretty frenetic industry.

Yeah.

Entertainment's crazy.

I know.

And everyone's, and they're the ones who I'm attracted to, people that have personalities

and they're big and they're out there and they're fiery and electric.

And then, yeah, it comes down to it, it's all a bit hard.

So tell me about your podcast.

It's a lot.

What's it, what's its story?

Tell me, tell me the theme of it.

What's the thematic?

Well, it's, this is the issue, it's not really a thing.

But I just won Podcast Host of the Year at the ACRAs, if you were wondering.

It's like, it's very, the original concept was to just basically take my conversations

with my girlfriends.

Yeah.

And we have a real whine about politics or whatever we're feeling that week, relationship,

sex, whatever, and just chuck it into a podcast.

And it's kind of evolved over the past three or four years.

And now it's got interview podcasts.

It's more like chats with people.

I don't like talking to them about their work.

So you bring guests in?

Yeah, yeah.

Bring guests in every second week.

Like every other week is a solo episode where I just rant about things that I hate.

See, the passion goes into there.

And it's, yeah, I don't really know what the theme is.

I don't know why people listen to it, but they do.

And it's great for me because I can just get all my energy out on a Monday.

And then I go, great.

No one at home has to deal with me now.

Is this like therapy for you?

It's like therapy.

I have amazing producers that I'm like, they just bounce things off me.

And it's actually the best.

It's more like, I forget that it goes anywhere.

It's funny.

There used to be a really good comedian.

Way before your time.

His name was Rodney Rude.

And he used to have this skit and it was called, Do You Know What I Hate?

But it was actually very relevant because people actually love to talk about their fucking hate.

Yes.

People are obsessed with me getting angry.

And I love it because I love getting angry.

Do you actually get angry or frustrated?

Anger in a sense that you want to throttle someone or you're just frustrated?

No.

Well, anger actually is an emotion that I've had to try and learn to tap into in therapy.

Because I used to pretend.

I used to pretend that I had no anger and I would just shut down and like in fights with partners,

just be like, ooh, and like stand there still, like staring blankly at them and dissociate.

So I've had to try and tap into that.

So it's more frustrated or it's more like, I don't know.

It's kind of how my family have always communicated.

Like, oh, fucking hell.

Like it's all very, it's almost like a silly show.

It's like fun to hate something.

It's fun to get angry about something.

It's fun to say that they shouldn't fucking build fucking more fucking.

You know, apartment somewhere because it's a waste of money.

Like it's, it's fun to get angry about things or that I hate grey houses or I hate white kitchens or I hate, I don't really hate them.

So if someone goes to your place, your family's place on Christmas day and I don't want to bang your family because I don't even know them.

It's so much fun.

Would it be overwhelming?

Would someone get up?

Well, I bring a different person every year.

So that's because you get overwhelmed.

So I could ask, I could poll the people.

I mean, they tend to have a lot of fun.

Like it's, it's, it's, we have a bit of political chat.

We have a bit of laughing at me.

Am I silly?

Things that on this year, you know, it's, um, it's mainly fun and silly.

You know, everyone's very loud.

I only have, I have a single mum.

So it's only my mum's side.

Um, I don't think it's overwhelming.

Everyone's had a good time when they've come, to be honest.

And is, are you a drinker?

No, not really.

No.

So you don't need drinks.

I can see you're, you're energised here to, I mean, unless you had something before you came in, but.

Oh no, I actually forgot my medication today.

That's why.

You forgot?

Yeah, that's why I'm not here.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Like what, what, what's the medication you take?

ADHD medication?

Yeah, dexamphetamine, it calmed me down.

Yeah, just a, yeah, which is sort of, uh, intuitively, uh, the opposite of what I would

think it would do.

Um, um, Dexys would actually make, you would expect Dexy to push up, but it actually makes

you focused because otherwise you're going to be scatterbrained.

Yes.

Otherwise I'm a bit.

You're looking at everything.

Yeah.

So you're, you're being medically diagnosed as ADHD.

Yeah.

Like by a psychiatrist.

Cause that's the only place you can get the Dexys from.

Yes.

Yeah.

Six month wait list.

Yeah.

So, because I had, uh, Emma Rusciano on here and, um, on the same show and, uh, Emma's

like really honest about how it made her and you're speaking very similar to her.

I mean, I mean the speed at which you speak.

Yeah.

And I've, one of the things I've noted about successful people is they tend to speak at

speed.

Really?

I've got a lot of successful mates, blokes mostly, little blokes actually, the ones I'm

talking about, who, who speak at speed and are absolutely obsessed with their topic,

whatever.

Whatever the topic might be.

In your case, you seem like you can get not obsessed.

It seems obsessed, but just really passionate about it.

Yeah.

It's a hyper fixation.

You know, I get hyper fixated on things.

So then that's a medical term though, is it?

Yeah.

The ADHD.

So that's, that's the case.

Yeah.

Like I guess with the vaccine, this actually makes sense about our chat before with the

vaccine, I guess I was hyper fixated on the vaccine.

So then I want to tell everyone about it.

I'll get hyper fixated.

Like right now I'm hyper fixated on finding a new dog.

So all I'll do the whole, for the next few days, just look for a new dog.

I'll like go on Facebook marketplace and try to find the exact right thing.

Or like with work, like with FBoy Island, I'll hyper fixate on like what the possible storylines

could be and what I think, even though I'm just the host, but I'll become like obsessed

with things.

So yeah, it does help me do things.

I think pretty well and commit to things pretty well until the dopamine wears off.

And then I don't want to think about it ever again.

That's interesting you should say, because I often say that there's nothing wrong with

being obsessed as long as you're not a controller, but obsession is quite a good thing in business

I'm talking about.

Um, and if you can somehow draw that, that emotion, whatever, whatever you call it, and

you can actually help you be more perfect.

So more perfect in your business, eventual more, whatever it is, the task that you set

at hand.

So like in relation to your dog task, um, if you sort of become hyper fixated on, in

other words, that's the thing I've got to do properly and I'm going to do it 100%.

You'll end up perfecting it.

Yeah.

And I'll find the exact right thing at work.

I'll, I'll do things.

Um, so like the podcast, I'll spend so much time thinking about it, being obsessed with

it, but then yeah, suddenly it will drop off.

Like literally like.

Before you achieve it?

Uh, I'll get to a certain point and then I'll get the dopamine or the satisfaction and then

I'll go, okay, bye.

Do you get distracted by something else?

Yeah.

Usually.

I mean, for example, like if I get a massage without headphones in, I will think of like

seven TV ideas and plan them all out or like an app idea or a podcast idea.

And I've got like five.

I have TV treatments in my TV pictures in my documents at the moment that are fully

written out that I did after a massage that will never go anywhere because I've become

obsessed with it for a day or two.

And once documents done, I go, okay, got that then.

So do you, do you mind if I just ask you what sort of dog you are looking for?

Yeah.

Cocker Spaniel.

I have one.

What color?

Um, brown currently.

Like brown as in the, uh, okay.

Yeah.

I know the color.

The current model.

I had a brown.

Yeah.

And, but why?

Um, because he's a senior dog.

He's like a two time rehome.

Rescue.

And he needs a friend, I think.

So did you, but are you specifically looking for a rescue, uh, a rehome?

I'm trying to find another rescue.

Yeah.

But it's very difficult.

So I might have to unfortunately buy a dog.

But why, why, what are the attributes of a Cocker Spaniel and a, and a rescue dash rehome

dog are appealing to you, attractive to you?

What are the attributes?

Well, Cockers are very like needy and they're very like floppy and they'll sleep on your

chest.

And they're, he runs a lot.

Like he's the best of both worlds.

He'll run.

For hours and hours and hours, all day we'll walk to Coogee and back, you know, twice and

he'll still have energy chasing birds and we'll go home and he'll sleep like on my lap.

He's like a cuddle bug, but also like a dog, you know, like he'll chase balls and he's

amazing.

So, and because he's a rescue, I think I kind of like nursing them and figure it and helping

them out a little bit.

Cause I had a rescue before that, um, he was 12 and a half when I got him and he had cancer

when I got him.

So I was kind of like nursed him to his death.

Is that, is that some sort of innate, um?

Um, I don't know, need or desire to, uh, look after people?

I think so.

Yeah.

I think I, I think it's, yeah, I put, I project a lot onto my dog, unfortunately, but I get

like, yeah, maybe it's some sort of place to put my maternal instinct right now while

I'm not going to have a kid.

And my body's like, take care of this to its full degree.

Do you need to have a bloke to have a kid?

I mean, are you one of those people who says, I need to have a guy to have a kid, like I

want to settle down, husband, wife, all that sort of stuff.

Or are you just happy to have a kid?

I mean, I don't know.

I was thinking about this yesterday on a walk, actually.

I was thinking about like, I probably would have a kid by myself, but I feel like that

is almost a defense mechanism for me growing up without a dad and thinking like, oh, I

can, I can do it alone.

Like I don't fucking, I don't need that.

I know that at all.

Like it's a hyper independence thing that I think actually isn't the most beneficial

for me or my kid.

Do you think so?

Do you think it's, is it really necessary for the kid?

To have two parents?

I don't think it's necessary.

I mean, I turned out great.

Look at me.

But I think that like, yeah, you can, I had, I have an amazing mom who like was just incredible.

But I think that not having a father figure just in like certain moments is like, is like

upsetting as an adult, you know?

And I think you also miss out on a second grand, second instead of grandparents, you

miss out on, or aunts and uncles, you miss out on like my whole family is 13 people,

my entire extended family.

Including marriages and everything.

So like.

So you miss out on a village.

Yeah, essentially.

Yeah.

And I've got an, like my uncles and my father figure, like I've got an amazing family.

It's just that, I mean, I probably would have a kid by myself, but I'm not sure that that's

what I really want to do.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

It's, it's interesting because you're, you're fairly vocal about, you know, how strong females

are and you know, how independent females are, how females don't need to be dependent on

men.

Yeah.

Being independent, that's, they're different things.

Yeah.

And I would have thought perhaps that that process might be going through your head that,

you know, I can do this on my own.

I think I could, I think I could.

And I think.

But as a challenge.

Yeah.

It'd be, yeah, it adds something.

It adds a challenge to parenting.

I mean, you know, mum would push around a double stroller by herself.

She was a teacher and a St. Bernard.

Like she, you know, my dad left her with two kids and a giant St. Bernard when I was like

six months old.

As in dog.

Yeah.

Giant.

Yeah.

A dog.

Yeah.

And she's a teacher on maternity leave still with me and she's left.

And I think that while she did an amazing job, of course, like she shouldn't have had

to do that.

So I know, I think a lot of the time as well, not having a certain parent in the picture

can also be a good thing.

If you have a dickhead parent.

It's much better that out of the picture.

Like I'm sure my dad not being the picture was more beneficial for me.

If a dickhead's going to leave when I'm born, the dickhead's a dickhead.

But I think that if.

I would feel like I won the lottery if I found someone that I could be with, maybe

wouldn't even marry, be with and have a kid and be really happy together or at least co-parent

really well.

Yeah.

Because, but, but, but, but Abby, isn't it about, you know, now I'm trying to trust

because I go, I come from a huge family.

Okay.

And like my dad's got five brothers.

Like a massive family.

Oh really?

Wow.

Massive cousins, uncles, aunties.

And, and at the end of the day, it's really about whether or not you've got lots of people

to be part of your village.

In other words, you can recreate these things.

I know your family's smaller, but you can recreate the village.

I mean, you might live in Bangalore and you might be part of a community up there or you

might blah, blah, blah.

Do you ever feel as though, I mean, you're one of those people who says, I can fucking

do this.

No one else has done this.

I reckon this is a challenge I'm going to take on.

I'm going to change the way people think about this process and make a deal of it.

In other words, prosecute it as a, as a concept, as a theory, as a thesis.

Yes.

Is that something that ever goes through your mind?

I can just sort of, the only reason I ask is I can sort of see going through.

Going through your mind.

Yes.

Yeah.

I think, I think it does.

I think that like, yeah, I think, I think, yeah, I definitely have my views and if they

aren't mainstream, I want to convince people of them.

Or convince yourself.

And myself.

Yeah.

But I think that with the, with the parenting thing, I was thinking, I was like, well, I

could, it gets into a bit dangerous, dangerous territory with that.

Because if I was thinking like, well, I can do this and I can show everyone that I can

do it.

I don't think a child is the right experiment to see if I can do it.

Yeah.

Because you fuck it up.

Oh, fuck that kid up.

Yeah.

You know?

And like, while I would have a kid alone and like a single, single parents are so incredible

and most single parents that I know are fucking just as good, if not better than people that

have two parents, because they often have like a dad that's abusive or, you know, like

they end up more well-rounded.

I just think I'd like to have the option to have someone with me, you know?

Yeah.

So when, when does Abby Chaffield get to that position?

Is this, is a matter of having assets behind you or?

Um, having your career settle down or just having one stream that you're working with?

Because at the moment, you know, you couldn't have a kid now, you're going to do too much

shit.

Yeah.

Um, but what, what, what, what, what's it look like structurally?

Yeah.

I think that, yeah, I think that it's, it's if I have, yeah, one stream of, of, of income

or one kind of thing that I'm doing, like whether that's just doing a TV show a year

or just doing the podcast where I have some sort of routine, maybe it's about routine

and have it and be able to foreplan because I don't even know what I'm doing next.

You know, in six weeks, after I get back from my holiday, I have no idea what I'm doing.

Really?

Like I'll do the podcast, but I could have another show to film.

I could have, I may not.

I could have, I know FBO Island's coming back, but I don't know the dates of filming yet.

I don't know.

So I just am kind of in the ether waiting for someone to pull me out and go, okay, come

here for four weeks of your life and not talk to anyone and work as hard as you can.

And then we'll speak back out again.

I mean, I love it, but you know.

Could you just explain to the audience, because a lot of people don't understand how this

works.

The, the.

The decision to run a show again is based on a whole lot of stuff.

Obviously ratings, one of them, and also the advertising dollars they get out of it.

But the process of actually rebooking you or saying, look, we want to do it again, probably

doesn't happen until December sometime or like if they want to put you on a fair, they'll

ring you in December.

Can you just explain that process?

Totally.

So I think everyone thinks it's like a, you know, a year, a year in advance and you should

have everything planned.

And why people often ask me like, why did you book so much at the same time?

I didn't book at the same time.

I was booked.

I was forced.

It was forced.

It was upon me.

I agreed to these things.

They'll happen to be one after the other without a daybreak in between.

So basically, FYI, it did well, but even the analytics of streaming is so different to normal

TV.

So you might've seen that, you know, Bachelor, you know, they get 300,000 viewers, which

isn't great in theory.

Let's say if they get 300,000 viewers, you can kind of see how many people are watching.

Therefore, it directly correlates to advertising money.

But with streaming, it's more about.

Who signs up and then immediately watches your show.

So who is signing up for your show?

So you could get the most views ever, but if all those people already have an account

with that streaming service, you won't get renewed because it's like, well, they were

already signed up for White Lotus already.

So we'll keep White Lotus because that was the highest or whatever, but the show seems

to do well.

And we kind of, we knew it did well in terms of press and in terms of numbers, but we were

just waiting for the green light and then you get greenlit and then it's kind of like,

okay, well next week, can we have production meetings next week?

Can we do?

Can we do wardrobe?

Can we start talking about casting?

Can we start talking about your vague availabilities?

I mean, with Masked Singer, I was asked to do it a fortnight before we started filming

the first time.

So I was suddenly like, I was at the Logies the next week for the promotion of the show.

And then I was on the show and obviously it was one of the last options, but I'll take

it.

So yeah, it's all very, it's all very sudden, but this time we've got a bit more leeway.

I think we'll be filming a bit later next year.

So I think I've got like four or five months before we film.

But I haven't got exact dates.

Because generally speaking, it's hard to plan.

It's like a little bit haphazard TV, radio less so, but a podcast, you're in control

of that.

But you probably just fit that in around the other gigs and, but TV is a weird one, but

it's very good for your brand.

No matter how it rates, it's very good for the Abbey Chatfield brand and it allows you

opportunities to do other things.

Yeah.

And it also helps me meet people and network with people that if I have a TV idea, if I

ever complete those pitches.

Yeah.

I can call up someone and go, what do you think of this?

Or I meet amazing writers or I meet people that want to do other projects or, you know,

Australian TV industry is very small, as you would know.

So it's good to, yeah, it's good to get involved with it.

And I also really enjoy it.

It's really silly.

And the crew from FBoy Island are almost the exact same crew as my Bachelor.

So I've known them all for four years.

Even my mind is, and they've all had promotions and they're all like EPs now, but I've known

them since they were like runners on set.

So it's-

What's a runner?

Okay.

A runner is just like someone that does the shit jobs and they're always the happiest

people on set because they're stoked to get a job in TV, but basically like, but get me

a coffee or they'll go and get zip ties or they'll go and get tape or they'll go and

get some flowers.

Or if someone on the show wants to get McDonald's, they'll go and get the McDonald's for a certain

scene.

So yeah, people go from that and usually then they decide if they want to do camera or lighting

or production or directing or whatever.

But yeah, it's like a little family.

So it's actually really exciting to go back and do it.

So where to from here, like forget about what's going to happen next year, but what's Ambitrafe

got in the mind?

Like you've built a brand, you've got a lot of followers, you've got a big social media

following.

You sort of stand for, you are known for standing for lots of different things, you've been

hauled around a bit.

I mean, it's been pretty uncomfortable for you from time to time, but do you ever think

to yourself, what am I going to be doing five years time?

Yeah, I do.

I think that I want...

I really want to just have my own either...

I think my goal is to have a TV concept that I can be the EP of and the creator and not

be in front of camera or be in front of camera in a minimal way because...

An EP of being an executive producer.

Yes.

Oh, sorry.

Yes.

Or I've got like TV show ideas.

I want to write a TV show.

I want to kind of be like behind the scenes doing all that sort of stuff where I have

more control over what's happening.

Maybe I'd host a reality format.

Because it's so much fun.

But I think I just want to have my own thing that I've created and it's...

I have control over it, but it's something that I know is a little bit groundbreaking

or different.

I can't quite figure it out yet.

Do you know anybody who's actually done that?

They've gone from being the talent on the show, which is what you are at the moment,

to becoming the EP writer or conceiver of the show.

Maybe Andrew Denton or someone like that.

Yeah, Andrew Denton.

I mean, even Andy Cohen of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

I mean, he's the EP of all of those and he hosts the reunions to someone like that.

But yeah, it is difficult, isn't it?

Well, it's a big...

It's a big jump.

Yeah.

And no doubt someone like you, you're only young too, someone like you could probably

do it because you're committed enough to it.

But becoming the EP is totally different, the producer is totally different to being

that talent.

Totally.

Well, this year with FBoy Island, for example, last year I was kind of involved, but I was

so busy with radio.

I didn't have time to really be...

I didn't really be as in it as I wanted to be.

And now as well...

You mean as a producer?

Yes.

Producing.

And I was involved in conversations here and there, very top line.

And I'd think of ideas for...

I'd go, oh, I'd text the producers an idea that I had and maybe it happened, maybe it

didn't happen.

We had a group chat.

But this year I've said to them explicitly, I really want to be as involved as I possibly

can be.

I come to production meetings, be involved in how you guys cast so that I can start to

learn from the ground up as though I'm a runner.

I can go in and...

Yeah.

Go in and understand what's going on because I think a huge thing as well is I just want

to always be challenged and I get quite bored quite easily.

Yeah.

Well, it's an interesting process for you to sort of participate in, especially someone

with...

So you've got a really like a property background and your training is...

Well, your education and your academic training is not around that.

And this is a...

It's a pretty flip environment.

Yeah.

And it's a tough environment to be in.

And you're sure you can get cut any time.

Do you feel as though that, especially if it doesn't work, but do you feel as though

it's a risky game?

Because TV is a risky game overall.

It is.

But I'm very fortunate that I have the podcast that is very consistent income, it's consistent

profile.

I have amazing opportunities.

So I think that I'm way more able to take those risks.

And if a show flops, a show flops, fuck, you know, no one's dying.

Like a TV show didn't work out, okay, cool.

You can learn from that.

You can figure out what will work or what won't work.

And I think media is evolving so quickly as well with TikTok and people having very small

fascinations and interests and changing and things are huge one week and they're gone

the next week.

That might suit your thinking.

Yeah, it does.

It does.

So I'm trying to learn a lot and I have notes, apps of all these ideas or trends that I've

noticed or things that I've noticed or scenes that I'd like to put into a TV show and I

have all these, this chaotic mess in my phone of notes of ideas that I'm hoping even over

Christmas that I can sit down and I can kind of-

Map it.

Yeah.

And figure out what I could do and kind of half-ass pitch it.

I'm very fortunate as well being in front of camera talent that I can just probably,

like I can much, it's much easier for me to call up someone and go, can you make a TV

show for me and figure it out?

Like it's, I'm very fortunate in that way that I can just have an idea and go, well,

that could actually happen.

But I did a pilot for Channel 10 last year and it did well numbers wise, didn't get picked

up.

And I was just like, okay, cool.

It doesn't really, it doesn't really affect my brain.

I was like, what kind of, I watched it a few times and was like, I could do this differently.

And that was kind of it.

Do you know what I really want to ask you?

Sure.

Go for it.

I really want to know if you don't mind telling me, who are you, like what, who's sitting

in front of me at the moment?

Like, I mean, cause it's so far been pretty easy on you, you know, like it's chat looks

cool.

Yeah.

I'm just sort of saying stuff that everybody already knows about.

But who is Abbey Chatfield really like deep down?

I know.

I think people think that I'm some like tough heartless bitch or like I'm silly all the

time, but I'm deeply, deeply insecure, like deeply insecure.

It's most of my therapy.

I often have very tumultuous and borderline or fully abusive relationships that I'm in.

I'm kind of a, I'm kind of a sucker in, in a lot of ways.

I'm a bit, I think I'm a bit naive and I, I kind of, I know I've, I've a lot of self,

a lot of like self hatred and criticism, a lot that I think people don't really see.

Are you a fighter?

Yeah, I think so.

I grew up without it, you know, in a pretty tough environment, in a few different ways,

that I can't really talk about.

But yeah, I think seeing my mum go through so much has just made me simultaneously tougher,

but also really, really scared of the world.

Like I'm terrified of people.

I'm so scared of people.

I don't really get close with a lot of people.

That's what struck me.

That's why I asked you the question, because I feel as though you're playing me.

And I don't mean it in a bad way.

Yeah.

But you'd probably do it to everybody.

You can talk fast.

You can dominate the conversation.

You own the narrative.

You're really good verbally, which means that you can take the conversation wherever you

want to.

You can distract people away from what it is you're trying to protect.

That's my feeling.

You're trying to stop me from finding your soft belly.

And this show is called Straight Talk.

Yeah.

And you know, it's, I like to try to find the soft belly.

I don't mean it in a bad way.

No.

I totally.

Just in an honesty way.

No, I totally agree.

And I think that it's.

It's.

It's a little bit of a subconscious almost, or completely, maybe.

You know.

You've been doing it for so long.

You're so good at it.

You're good at it.

Yeah.

And I've always.

Yeah.

I have.

I have a hard time getting really close with people.

But when I do, it's like, you know, best friends forever.

But I just, yeah, I struggle to trust people or that they're, I don't know, I struggle

to trust that people.

Actually like me or they actually have a fun time with me or that, yeah, I'm just like

hanging on to them.

Like even before like this job, I always have felt like a little bit on like the outskirts

a little bit, but I can't pinpoint why.

Do you, do you have many, many close friends?

Yeah.

I've got like.

Boys and girls.

Yeah.

And they're mainly, cause I'm queer, they're mainly queer people, but I've got like really

good friends.

I'm going away with my girlfriends from Brisbane this weekend.

My friends are like 10 years.

Like school friends?

Yeah.

Oh, hospo friends.

When I used to bartend.

Yeah.

But they, yeah, I, I, I do, I don't know.

I have, I have this defense mechanism of just like telling stories rather than talking about

how I feel.

I can see it.

Yeah.

My friends.

Yeah.

Like, I think I cried in front of my friends.

Yeah.

I think I cried in front of my, my friend the other week.

And in my head I was like, I must've cried in front of you a million times.

My best friend.

She was like, I've never seen you like this.

I was like, that's so weird.

Cause I'm like this twice a week.

Like that.

I, in my head I was like, no, you've seen me.

You've seen me like this.

Like, I've never seen you like this.

You must be so upset about this.

I was like, oh no, you just caught me at like a vulnerable moment.

But I'm working on in therapy.

I think it's where I cover up a lot of my like anxieties or insecurities with, um, getting

external validation.

I think it's where I cover up a lot of my like anxieties or insecurities with, um, getting

external validation through like sex and dating people.

But I'm working on in therapy.

I think it's where I cover up a lot of my like anxieties or insecurities with, um, getting

external validation through like sex and dating people.

And most of the time, like it's, it's, uh, genuine, like, I'm not saying every time I

have sex, it's like a form of self harm, but I think sometimes if I'm feeling really anxious

or really like upset about something, um, and it's why I have this on and off relationship.

It's because we'll break up and then I'll be like, I can't, I can't, I can't handle this.

I'm just gonna go back and have sex with you because I just want to like be back in like

validation world.

You know?

You're a pretty unusual person.

Do you think?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

I think so.

Um, uh, because as I said, I, I, you, you're, you're building curiosity in, in me in terms

of who Abby is inside her head.

You know, I, I find it quite, um, interesting how your instincts and you're nearly not

even looking at me.

You're, but you're watching, you know, when I'm engaged in your conversation and when,

when I'm starting to drop off what you're saying, and it's a way of controlling the

narrative with me all the time.

Yeah.

And, uh, I find it like, it's pretty, pretty, quite interesting, like, uh, a bit bewildering

because I'm then I'm thinking, well, hang on, what the fuck I'm doing the interview

here.

It's nearly like.

Sorry.

I'm used to being.

It's nearly like you're interviewing me, but not by asking me questions is interviewing

me by giving me answers.

You're controlling the whole narrative.

Yeah.

You've been doing this your whole life and you're pretty, pretty good.

You're obviously a bright person, but, uh, quite polished at it.

And it's, and I wonder, I just, that's why I asked you the question and keep wondering

as if you're trying to protect something or keep me away from somewhere.

I don't know if I.

Not even consciously.

I'll ask my therapist and see what she reckons, cause that's a good question.

I don't think it's conscious.

No, it might be unconsciously.

Yeah.

I think that I've always, like I said before, like when I have fights with partners, I just

will shut off and be like, I don't care about this.

This doesn't actually matter to me.

Like I'm very avoidant in a lot of ways.

Avoidant, but in that, um, you say I, I have no feelings.

Yeah.

Doesn't matter.

I'll just stand there and then I'll go home and I'll cry by myself or I'll like be upset

about it.

Um, fight.

And it will cause a lot of fights that I guess before when you were asking about what I'm

like in a relationship, people imagine me being this like fiery, like I will just shut

the fuck up and just be so scared of someone leaving me.

Like so scared.

That might be scary to them cause they might think you're completely devoid of any feelings.

Yeah.

But it's like, I dissociate.

I dissociate completely and it's like, I'm not there and I'll like zone out and then

I'll come back when I have calm words to say, cause I refuse to acknowledge my anger.

That's why I'm working on that.

And would you say to people who suffer from ADHD or anything for that matter, mental health,

do you think it's important that you get therapy?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, if you can afford it, it's so, and it's hard to find a psychiatrist and a psychologist,

but I mean.

Is it cognitive therapy you're going through, like just sort of knowing what your condition

is?

Yeah.

So I've, I think that I'm, I mean, I'm pretty intelligent so I, and I've kind of been dealing

with this stuff for a long time that I know what I have and I can say to you, I acknowledge

that I stand there and I dissociate and I'm completely self-aware or almost self-aware.

Obviously no one's completely self-aware, but I know what I do and why I do it.

Like I'm like, I know that I don't show my emotions during fights because I don't feel

like anyone's listening or I feel like they're going to leave me because of my dad left when

I was born.

I can trace it back, you know?

Yeah.

It's very difficult to change the behavior aligned with that.

So.

Do you want to change?

Yeah.

I'd love to.

I'd love to change.

I'd love to have like a genuine relationship that was actually deep, that wasn't riddled

with abuse and mind games and bullshit, but I feel like I'm getting more and more to a

point where I don't think that's going to happen.

Do you think you attract those sort of people though, or in terms of you're attracted to

those sort of people?

Yeah.

Bad boy?

It's not even bad boys.

It's just, it's like, I just.

Yeah.

I feel like I've been attracted to, so they're all very different.

They're all very different.

I feel, I feel like it's more, it isn't even like a bad boy.

It's like they're emotionally unavailable.

So I can't get close to them anyway.

So it's a self-protection.

I have a lot of long distance relationships.

So there's not that like-

As in terms of physical distance?

Yeah.

Like overseas or something like that?

Overseas, Melbourne, Brisbane, you know, Byron, that I can only see when I make allocated

time for it.

And it's like a weird control thing where I'm like, I, and I don't, my friends never

meet anyone that I'm dating anymore.

Never.

I don't let my, I don't let worlds overlap.

I don't know what next to ask you, like, cause my brain's sort of flipping around the joint,

like over time.

I can keep talking.

No, no, but over time.

Don't worry.

No, no.

Because I, because you know, there is a presumption that people like you in the media and making

money out of the media and making money out of the entertainment industry, you got to

cop it sweet.

Yeah.

I think that's-

What about that presumption?

I think, I think that, okay, so people that have a nine to five, like what a nine to five,

no one gave a shit if I complained about my dickhead boss or if I complained about the

coffee machine being broken in the fucking kitchen, you know, bullshit things that like,

I know this is just part of working in an office, but I'm also allowed to complain about

it.

I just feel like it's part of my job that I have a right to complain about and not like,

but it isn't, people say, well, if you don't like it, then you should get out of the public

eye and quit your job.

It's like, well, I'm allowed to have some sort of venting of people saying that I'm

a, like slut shaming me on the biggest radio show in the country.

I think that I have a right to complain about it, but what I've, my friends, my good friends

and people that I've dated and a therapist, it's like, you can complain about it, but

if you let it consume you, then it's being a little bit like self-indulgent and a little

bit like, fuck over it, a little bit.

So I allow myself a little bit of time.

That's what I do.

I allow myself time to be upset about it.

And then when I see my friend, I'll vent for like 10 minutes and then it'll be like, whatever.

I get it.

I understand what you're trying to do.

Yeah.

But like in terms of the expectation or the assumption that everybody has enough time

and intellect to think about what it is you're trying to say, and it could be just a waste

of fucking time and energy.

Probably is a waste of fucking time, but when I post about these things, I often, the biggest

thing is I get people messaging me saying, I felt like this for so long, but I couldn't

vocalize why this was wrong.

But they're your cheerleaders.

Yes.

Okay.

Good point.

But that means there are more people that can combat if they hear this at work, if they

hear this at school or whatever age they are, whatever's going on at a family dinner, they

then have the language through me to go out there and spread the good word.

You know?

I get it.

You've armed them up.

Yeah.

And I give them like straightforward.

Cause I think that a lot of feminist theory, particularly.

It's not shaming.

It kind of either.

Now there's more podcasts about it, which is amazing, but a lot of it comes packaged

in this very complex idea about patriarchal history.

And I think that if you just say, well, why does it matter if I'm fucking people?

It kind of simplifies it in a way that wouldn't be, it's digestible more so, but now there's

more people saying this stuff.

No, no.

I like that.

That's a great explanation.

I get it.

A hundred percent.

I like it.

I like the explanation.

It's perfect.

Yeah.

And I think that there's a lot of people who are, who would be prepared to put some,

add some gas to those sorts of situations.

Most people pull back.

Your PR advisor would say, if you have one, not if you have one, but it'd be impossible

to be your PR advisor.

I go shut the fuck up and hang up on them.

But it'd be your PR advisor to say, no, let it lie.

Don't say anything.

Don't write back.

And don't use your own, your own platforms to say anything.

Most people would say that.

Yeah.

And, and that's an unfortunate problem with our media because a lot of our media, mainstream

media think that they can say those things because you're going to get advice to say

nothing.

And, or as well as that, you're going to be advised not to sue them.

Don't go for defamation, et cetera, because you won't, you might win, but it's going to

cost you a whole lot of money and then blah, blah, blah.

They're going to come after you for the rest of your life.

And it's interesting that someone like you do that.

Yeah.

I think that I just.

You don't give a shit.

Yeah.

I don't give a shit.

And I think as well, because I, like this isn't, it's only my world for four years.

So even if I said something that was completely wrong, A, I could learn from it and change

on my idea.

Like say if it ended my career, I still have a degree in property.

Like my life, like I'm trying more so I don't have my worth based on my work.

So I still have amazing friends.

I still have a, like a degree.

I can still go back to work.

I can still survive.

Like I think that it's not as high stakes as it may seem, even though it's very important

to me.

Does that make sense?

It's sort of like, well, if I'm going to completely lose my career for standing up for something

that I actually believe in.

A, it's unlikely that I'll have everyone disagree with me if it's something that I

really believe in and I've thought about a lot.

But if that doesn't happen, like then, then so be it.

I shouldn't, I shouldn't be in media.

So you're not doing this for popularity then?

I don't think so.

No.

Yeah.

It's a profit.

But you've made me think differently.

You've really, it's like a therapy session.

What's going on here?

Perfect.

Yeah.

Jesus Christ.

It was a straight talk.

No, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

I think I'm doing for popularity.

No.

I think it's nice when people like you and it's nice when you get emboldened with

your ideas and it's nice when you have people that agree with you.

I don't think I'm doing it for popularity.

Maybe it's not popularity.

Maybe it's more for validation of my thoughts, which I think is slightly different.

No, that's not only slightly different, it's extraordinarily more important.

And I'm going to close off now because I've just noticed your phone has gone for about

a thousand times.

Yeah.

My friends are crying.

And in the true spirit of Abbey Chatfield, you keep looking at it all the time.

I'm ADHD.

I didn't have a method to stay.

It's okay.

I'm getting four notifications.

Thanks for your honesty.

That was awesome.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

That was a great chat.

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