103 Trinny Woodall From Personal Assistant To 300 Million Makeup And Skincare Empire

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I'm Mike Boris, and this is Straight Talk.

When I was younger, I was into everything.

I'm sure you're right.

Ooh.

Oh, hello.

Trini Woodall, founder and CEO of Trini London.

Okay, ladies, have a great day.

I think a lot of the time we can do the obligation of other people.

So why don't I try and lean into what I love as opposed to do the obligation?

What do I really want to be doing?

Ask yourself and challenge yourself.

Because that's what I do in my life.

Because when we're full of fear and we get paralyzed, we can't move forward,

we cannot see what we are.

What are the different things that contribute to having less?

Fear in our life.

It changes in our life.

What kind of relationships we're in.

Should you be in a relationship to complete yourself?

Or are you in a relationship that brings something else extra into your life

that is just utterly joyful?

Would you say you've made mistakes?

You and I feel people.

And we know what we've done.

We know what we're good at.

We know what we're bad at.

And the people closest to us know that as well.

If you cannot find happiness within yourself,

you cannot be...

the right person for the people in your life who mean the most to you.

If we live in the past or we live in the future,

we're not going to make the present happen.

Trini Woodall, welcome to Straight Talk.

Thank you for having me.

I walked here today from my office in the city.

It's about a 2K walk.

And I started thinking about today's pod.

And I thought, my God, what are you wearing, Mark?

You didn't.

I did.

Really?

And I started thinking about what not to wear.

Then I got quite concerned.

I was quite concerned about presenting myself in front of you.

And I actually quickly was talking to my son outside before I came in.

And we were looking through your Insta.

And I thought, her clothing choices are unbelievable.

Everything's like perfect on you.

And I started thinking to myself, I look like a shit bag.

And I started worrying about all the stuff on my shoulders.

I had some...

I must have brushed a white towel at home this morning.

And do you...

This is the weirdest...

You've never started a podcast, this conversation, have you?

Never. Never. Never.

It's crazy.

Also, 20 years ago, what were you doing?

20 years ago...

It was in the middle of a divorce, actually.

Exactly 20 years ago.

And what work were you doing?

Oh, what work was I doing?

I was running a big mortgage business.

All right.

A very big one.

Okay.

I still run one today.

I still own one.

But that...

A different one.

But I sold it.

What are you known for now?

Lending money to people to buy homes.

Okay.

So you're still known for that?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I still own one of the biggest home lenders in the country.

Hang on.

I'm going to swap position here.

Take this.

No.

I want to know.

I want to understand because I...

No.

No.

That's what I did.

I was a home lender and I'm still am a home lender for people who want to buy homes and

want to buy property portfolios, et cetera, like that.

So we were one of the largest in the country by far.

I love the way you already emotionalize it.

Emotionalize it?

Yeah.

In terms of...

You don't say, I'm a mortgage broker.

No.

I'm not a broker.

You say, I'm a home lender.

Yeah.

It's emotional.

You're facilitating the ability for people to have their home.

Well, that's my purpose.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I get a lot from how you described it.

Because I don't...

Well, to be honest with you, I'm not...

I've never actually been a mortgage broker.

I mean, I have two and a half thousand mortgage brokers work for me.

Yes.

But I've never done one.

So I've never actually...

But that's the business you're in.

But the business I'm in is lending money to people to achieve their hopes and dreams.

That's my deal.

Yeah.

That's my deal.

And it actually gets me up every day, apart from this show.

I mean, I love this show.

This is more a...

I wouldn't call it a...

It started off as a side hustle, but this is more fun.

Yeah.

The other one's much more serious.

It's a very serious...

Maybe this is more expressive for you.

Well, I get to meet people like you, and I'm privileged to meet every single person who

sits in that chair, and I get to hear about their story, and I get an opportunity to express

that to the audience, and ask questions that someone like me would ask, or which anyone

of them might want to ask if they had an opportunity to sit down and talk to Trini Whittle one-on-one.

That's hard for everybody.

A couple hundred thousand people can't come in and...

Yeah.

...sit down one-on-one and talk to you.

I'm sort of their representative today.

That in itself is a privilege, just not only to meet you, but actually to talk on behalf

of them.

Yeah.

To ask questions on behalf of them.

So, I want to go back to...

I actually would like to know who the hell you are.

Like, not today.

I mean, there's a lot written about you today, and there's lots of places I can find out

about you today.

But in terms of who were you when you were growing up, and did you ever think you're

going to become this megastar of a person?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The question is, did you ever think you were going to become this megastar of make-up,

beauty, opinions on how people should dress, et cetera, and someone is admittedly recognized.

Who were you as a kid?

As a kid...

It depends on the age.

So...

Yeah, let's pick as a teenager.

Okay.

As a teenager.

As a teenager, I was spotty.

That's the first way I described myself.

Really...

桑 using pimples.

Yeah, really bad acne.

Really?

So, kind of self-worth affected by that probably, because being a girl, being

a teenager, really bad skin. So that affected me. I wasn't good at school. I was like 26

out of 27 at school. So I always felt back of the class. I had had until I was 15, a

very popular older sister at the schools I'd been at. And she was naughty and popular.

So the teachers hated her and the girls loved her.

So she was cool.

She was super cool. So I lived in her shadow. So when I was 15, things changed a bit that

my sister, who I love very much, but she left the school so I could sort of find my

own person. My skin was really shitty still. But I worked out how to be friends with people.

And I think that's a defining moment in any teenager's life is when you work out relationships

a little bit better. So that was kind of good. And then, you know, lots of insecurities when

my late teens did drugs, got clean at 26. So that kind of period of 18 to 26.

Didn't love.

You didn't love. You loved it at the time though.

Running away from myself a lot.

Is that like a bit of a self-destruct program?

What do you think? Have you ever done that?

I did it in a later period in my life, not that period. When I was sort of rampant, it was more

because I got divorced. I've been divorced a few times, but I got divorced during that period.

And all of a sudden, I was hanging out with guys who were like that. And it was a bit more,

I was a bit more just doing what everyone else was doing. I wasn't sort of running away,

running into, I didn't enjoy it, I didn't hate it.

But you did it.

I just did it because I did it. It was a thing.

It was a thing. And you just then one day woke up and just thought it's not a thing anymore for me.

Well, I got remarried and I started having kids and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't function.

Like if I had no responsibilities prior to that, I could do whatever the hell I wanted.

And I was lucky. I was working at a law firm. I was earning good money.

I had no responsibilities. And my brother and I lived together. It was like, you know, like,

it was what-

A frat house for 24 year olds.

Totally.

30 year olds.

Yeah, yeah.

Whichever marriage you were on then.

Well, I'd post, it was after my first one and before my second one.

There's been a third?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Been a fourth?

No, won't be a fourth, but there's been a third.

You never know. My brother had six marriages, so I just, I believe-

Wow. How old is he?

He is now 70.

And when was his sixth marriage? Around about what age?

When did he learn?

60.

60?

Yeah.

Do you have kids with it?

He has, I would challenge which are his kids, but there's a few of them.

I've got a mate who I was the best man at three of his weddings. I'm the godfather to three of his kids. He's been married 11 times.

11, that's amazing.

And he's got 10 kids.

Yeah.

Does he remember which one is from which mother?

Does he?

Yeah.

What do I?

Yeah.

Well, it seems very interesting.

I wouldn't expect you to, by the way, but-

I sort of do.

More than him.

I've known him forever.

Yeah.

This is a bit bizarre, but he was married to one girl, and then he had a kid to her, and then he married her sister and had a kid to her.

Like, that is bizarre.

Yeah.

He ran off with his sister.

He's creating a lot of cousin cousins.

I don't even know what they are. I don't know where they fit into the category or how you sort of-

They shouldn't marry each other is all I could say.

They all, do the kids all like each other?

No.

Matt, they shouldn't marry each other.

No, definitely not.

But it was like he was, but he was the sort of guy who would immediately fall in love with somebody.

So he would fall in love with you for sure.

If he was sitting here now, within an hour or so, he'd be holding your hand or he'd be trying to hold your hand.

It takes two, but he'd be trying to hold your hand for sure.

He's just that type of dude.

And he's still doing it.

He lives in Bali these days, and he's still falling in love with women all the time.

How much would he love it that we're spending quite a lot of time talking about him on the podcast?

But he's someone, you just made me think of him.

He's someone who sits in my memory.

He represents a big part of my life many, many years ago, and someone I'll never, ever forget.

And it was his birthday three weeks ago.

But let's talk about Trini Woodall.

I'm enjoying learning about your friends.

You did a very good job of diverting me.

So you spent a period of your life up into the mid-twenties, hanging out, being a bit crazy, running away, running into, sort of ruining yourself a little bit, I guess.

What made you change your mind?

What made you change your mind about what you're going to do when you're in your mid-twenties?

How did you change direction?

First of all, ruining myself a little bit, I guess, is not the way I'd phrase it.

I'd probably say learning what I didn't want in my life is the better way of phrasing it.

Yeah, what not to have in your life.

Yeah, what not to have in my life.

And then I woke up, you know, hit a rock bottom, woke up at 26 and thought, what do I actually want in my life?

And then I felt quite behind because my friends had, by this stage, graduated, gone to university.

They were on the hamster wheel of their life, and I was like beginning it again.

So maybe more challenging, but also gives you more freedom, oddly, to think, what do I actually want?

Not what I should have the obligation to do.

Because I think a lot of the time we can do the obligation of other people.

And the realization of when you get to a stage of what do I actually want to do and what do I love to do,

that then slowly developed into, to an extent of what I do today,

of trying to make women feel better about themselves in different incarnations over a 20-year period.

You're right.

What do other people want me to do?

Which is, I'm one of those.

I went to university and all that sort of stuff when I was 20.

What were you doing in a work sense during that period?

Well, I traded commodities.

I did Series 3, Series 7.

Me and about 60 men on a trading floor hated it.

I used to go into work every day with the Financial Times on the outside and the Daily Mail on the inside.

And that was literally the classic imposter syndrome.

I hate that word.

I think it's totally inappropriate.

But that sense of, I feel an obligation to be here.

My dad had been a banker, but I hated it.

I hadn't been to university.

So I was not in.

You know, the equivalent of hedge funds today.

I was in the asset.

I was in physical trading.

I did physical trading first and then futures trading.

And I didn't love it, but I felt I should do it.

And every day I went in hating it.

I had to like say, do I really want to do this?

And then other things happened in my life, which made me then have a bigger wake up call.

And through all that time, from about six and a half, I'd always loved making my girlfriends over.

And that's what I ended up doing.

From commodities trading, it's a big leap.

Yeah.

Into.

Let's call it the beauty industry.

Did something happen to you that sort of gave you a, you know, uppercut?

Would you uppercut yourself?

I mean, or was it an actual realization?

I got clean.

I thought, what do I want to do?

You know, I sort of started over by not doing anything for a year and then doing a little job and building up.

And then thinking, actually, I really love talking about fashion and beauty.

You know, I love that more than trading commodities, you know.

So why don't I try and lean into what I love as opposed to do the obligation?

I think that's realization.

That's the wake up call I had at 26.

And then it took me a long time.

It took me probably until 31 to get to a place where then I had a column in a national newspaper.

I was writing my first book.

And then I was beginning to dabble in TV.

See, a lot of people often are doing things that they don't really like doing, but they just feel the obligation to do it in order to pay the rent or the mortgage or whatever the case may be, or to satisfy other people.

But to make a decision in your mid-twenties to completely abandon, not abandon, not do that anymore and go and do something that you really, really love.

That actual decision.

That actual decision process is fairly mature.

That's a really mature thing to do.

And I definitely wouldn't have been able to do it in my mid-twenties.

I didn't feel mature then, interestingly.

So when you use that word, I'm thinking maturity, I don't know.

It was more, I couldn't bear the alternative.

So sometimes we do things because we are grown up and we make amazingly informed decisions.

And other times we just think, what's in front of me, I have hit a rock bottom of.

So I have to make myself think what I really want to do.

So between that age and the early thirties, did you have many false starts?

I had many false starts.

I mean, I had false starts all through.

Like I started being an entrepreneur when I was 16.

I used to iron shirts and I got girls to iron shirts at school for other people.

And then I had another business which sold hair bows.

And I went to Portobello Market, bought hair bows and then got fabric from a market store and then got these ladies to make these bows and sold them.

So I did all these things as I started.

And then circumstances didn't make me finish them.

I had another company called Mission Impossible, which is like a concierge service when I was 19.

So there were all these stop starts, stop starts.

And then I thought I have to do a job that's a proper job, which is why I went into the city.

And then when I was 26, 27, I started again.

And I was an assistant to somebody because I had no qualification.

I hadn't been to university, nothing.

And then I slowly, slowly, slowly got into this, having this break in this column in this newspaper.

But my first, well not my first, but my sort of full start was,

in 99, I came across the Horse Whisperer did a DVD, a CD, not a DVD, that was way too long ago.

And in it, it showed that cable and wireless had sponsored it and they had something online.

So I went online and I saw they were creating this destination.

And at the time, I was fascinated by what online would bring.

And it was just the emergence.

It was literally emails were beginning.

It was the really beginning of that time.

But I felt writing.

If I was writing a newspaper column, imagine if globally, I could get to many more people.

So how can I have a destination where women could come?

And, you know, by that stage, we had like two million readers.

So we had quite a good following on this paper.

But I thought, imagine where there was a convergence and I could do this around the world.

So I went to cable and wireless with, I had a cleanse one weekend.

God knows why I didn't need to cleanse.

I just felt I have a cleanse.

And it made my brain very clear.

And I remember writing this one page synopsis.

And I took it.

I took it to this woman, Jill Street, and said, I was with Susanna, my partner, who we were writing the column with.

And I said, I've got this idea.

I want to do this portal for women online.

I want to call it ReadyTo.

And she said, how much money do you think you need?

And, you know, I hadn't thought about finances.

I hadn't learned to do P&Ls and balance sheets and shit like that.

So I just said, half a million pounds.

And I remember Susanna, sorry, I didn't mean to kick you out.

Kick me under the table.

I thought she kicked you.

Yeah, kick me under the table like, what the fuck are you doing?

And the woman was like, OK, let me think about this.

And I'll come back to you.

So two weeks later, she writes us a letter.

I think we only just had email.

I can't remember.

I think she emailed that and said, I think you've got the amount wrong.

I think you need 675,000 pounds.

So I was like, great.

She said, OK, give me your bank details.

This is dot com insanity time.

OK, 98, 99 is like insanity time.

So a week later, I had 675,000 pounds in our account.

So I thought, OK, now I have to build a company.

So Susanna was doing it with me, but she was also having a baby.

So we slowly hired people in.

I thought, I don't really know about tech.

So I hired somebody to do tech.

It was a time of Pell coding, which is hard wire coding.

It's not windfall coding.

It's different.

And I had marketing.

I thought, do I know how to market?

Not really.

So I hired very high-powered marketing.

And then I raised more money.

And I went out.

And in six weeks, I raised from two VCs 7.5 million pounds.

Like, you know, it took me three years to raise for Trini London 2.1.

But this was crazy times.

So I built up a team, 60 people, workaholic.

I literally had a bed in the office.

And all I could think about was work.

Marriage was, you know, or my relationship was quite fractured by this kind of obsession.

And after two years, dot com bust.

And I hadn't really monetized it.

I hadn't thought of that path to profitability.

I'd felt we would get a lot of research on women.

We got about 280 bits of information on each woman, their body shape, everything.

It was just like you'd come along and you'd say, I'm Tracy.

I'm five foot eight.

This is my body shape.

I want to get a red dress and I want to spend $50.

And we had gone on the high street and we had photographed 6,000 items.

And we'd put them on the portal.

And we had taken your body shape and we built an algorithm to give you whatever you want.

And you would go to the shop and buy it.

And how was I going to make the money?

I just felt.

I felt.

I felt all that information I would use for companies that needed objective information on women, on their thoughts and beliefs.

So the fundamentals were there, but the path and the timelines were shit.

So I had to close it.

So Susanna had the baby, second baby by this date.

And I closed the business.

And that was, for me, where I learned the most of everything I brought to New London.

Because I learned about who you hire, when you hire too quickly, people that really drain the payroll.

I learned about keeping close to you the fundamentals of why.

You think you have a good idea and protecting that at the very important time, the beginning of a business, before it's diluted by people who come in to help you to do things you don't know how to do.

But the timing of that is really crucial.

And so that was probably my steepest learning curve in business of how not to do something.

So when I started again in 2013, building Trinity London, and we launched in 2017, all those things were in the back of my mind.

It sounds like you sort of really jumped in the deep end.

Yeah.

Fully.

Yeah.

Particularly when something goes wrong.

There's a whole lot of capital.

And it's not your money.

It's their money to spend.

Yeah.

What did you learn about your own relationships?

That is, keeping a relationship, having a relationship, because I've been through the same, similar sort of process, I guess.

Running a business, running it hard, trying to grow it, having responsibilities to stakeholders, in my case, then trying to keep a relationship at home.

Challenging.

I've done it differently in different situations.

So in that first situation, I was married to my daughter's dad.

And he, at the very beginning of our relationship...

It was a main breadwinner.

And then my career took off and I became the main breadwinner.

So I was kind of an element of dad, but he was not a stay-at-home dad.

So he did his own stuff, but I was more successful than he was at the time.

So that's also challenging.

And I kind of never...

People would suggest to me it might be challenging, and I always felt it never was in our relationship challenging.

And I think it wasn't, but I think that there were other things going on.

You know, it was a challenging time, and we end up separating.

But for other reasons, slightly.

So when I was building Trinity London, I was in another relationship as well with somebody who was challenging me and supportive, but tough on me and supportive.

What does that mean, tough on you?

Like challenging my thought process, which is good.

Like, well, why do you want to do that?

You know, why are you thinking about that?

So it's great to have somebody who challenges you, who's done something.

And...

The irony of it was probably that they had built a very successful business, which had, to an extent, destroyed their marriage.

As many men can be in that situation.

And there was a time in Trinity London where a lot of my energy was my work, my daughter.

And so they knew that.

And then they saw it happening in their life, which is a big challenge.

Always trying to work this out, but for myself.

But is it a matter of prioritizing?

I mean, and once you prioritize, though, if the person you're in a relationship with is not in the priority list, that is either one or two, in other words, business first, daughter second, or daughter first, business second.

And then let's say that they're in the third place.

Is it a matter of, in your experience, is it a matter for them to find that as an acceptable position because they've got lots of other things in their life to keep them occupied?

Or is it just the fact that they...

They are happy to come into that position because you're already established in that position.

You're established in that one.

Because for me, it's a difficult one.

If you start off and when you're, let's say you're 25, you meet someone from the school, you get married to them, whatever the case may be, you're hanging out with them.

And then all of a sudden you start doing something that's really new and it's a new development.

And all of a sudden you have, you, the proprietor, you're the entrepreneur, you have to start to prioritize things.

Otherwise it doesn't happen.

Kids always tend to get at the top of the list.

In my case, it wasn't that case, but kids generally speaking get up at the top of the list.

Business is always at the top of the list because it just sucks you in.

It's like a vortex.

If you don't do it, your business is going to be stuffed.

I was told by this person who was my last relationship that you should put yourself first, then your child, and then your partner.

All right.

Which is an interesting concept there because...

He told you that.

Yeah.

Where does work fit in?

But I think what I take from that is...

If you cannot find happiness within yourself, you cannot be the right person for the people in your life who mean the most to you.

So where it's most challenging is when you put work first to such an extent that you empty your tank totally for anyone around you.

And ultimately also for your work because it's going to kill you.

So the biggest balance for me is how do I put myself first so that I can be...

There for my team in a way that's not endlessly full of stress and being directed by stress and to be a sort of thoughtful leader for my team and not one where under stress that changes.

And that's my biggest challenge for me.

And then with my daughter, that I'm there for her, but she's aware that I have a career and I work, but that she knows I would drop anything if there's a situation.

But, you know, she'll still call me a hundred.

I'll say, if I don't pick up straight away and it's not an emergency, know that I'll call you back.

She'll still call me 20 times in a row.

Da-da-da-da-da.

Because she's my daughter and she can do that.

She can do what the fuck she likes because she knows she has that power over me.

And that's an indication of the closeness of our relationship.

So in all of this, I'm not in a relationship, all right?

And I'm thinking, where would a relationship come in?

So this then leads us to, why should you be in a relationship?

Should you be in a relationship to complete yourself?

Absolute crap in my mind, but that's like, I'm nearly 60 and this is what I've learned in life.

Or are you in a relationship that brings something else extra into your life?

That is just utterly joyful.

And that's the only relationship I would go after now.

So it changes in our life, what kind of relationships we're in.

And some are really good for us and some are not good for us.

You've been married three times.

You've been through this.

You know what I'm talking about.

It's very interesting.

You said put yourself first.

And it's an interesting concept.

Some people would call that selfish.

But other people like me, I would call that selfless.

It's selfless.

Because I'm no good to you or anybody.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You've got to fill the tank.

So this morning I got up and I could have got up and gone straight down to my emails

because it's a big catch up because London's been burning.

But I did a meditation.

I went on the Calm app and I did Michael, lovely Michael, who started Calm, who I was

with Dotcom with in 98.

And I did 10 minute meditation of the daily meditation because I knew I needed to set

myself up for the day.

So did the meditation.

And then it was quarter to six.

And I thought.

I can either just lie in bed and go back to sleep or I can get up and I can really look

after my body.

So it's going to look after me.

So I got up and I went and did 45 minutes.

And then I started my day, did emails, got ready, started my day.

So that I need to do, because if I don't do, I'll be a bit hellish for other people around

me and for myself, I'll feel exhausted.

I'm on a kind of full on schedule right now for the whole of this month.

Always we are.

But so we've got to get that balance.

And I think what I'm learning in the last two years is I have to get this balance in

my life.

You mentioned you're nearly 60.

Unfortunately, I'm nearly 70.

And it's funny, it takes a long time.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm a slow learner, but it's taken me a long time to learn this

sort of stuff.

Like a really long time.

And I'm still learning, which is, that part's fun.

Do you feel as though you've made a lot of mistakes in relation to yourself and that

when you sort of get past that?

When you get past, say your mid fifties, you start to work it out.

Would you say you've made mistakes?

No.

I say I've learned from a lot of shit.

If we live in the past or we live in the future, we're not going to make the present happen.

It sounds very trite, but it's really true.

So I can sort of think, oh, I wish we'd sent that email differently.

All right.

Would, should, could.

I can do that a lot, or I can consciously think I won't do that because it's not going

to get me anywhere.

So do I look back and think I made a mistake doing drugs?

No, because it gave me a depth of emotional despair and understanding of myself that I

wouldn't have got otherwise.

You know, I choose to look back and think, what did I learn from that?

What, what did it bring into my life today?

And that is very much how I look at life.

That's incredibly powerful.

In other words, it's win or learn.

You never lose.

Never, never really fail.

Oh, we can fail.

Yeah, but it's not.

But that's different from regret.

Correct.

And it was not a mistake.

Like that business, it failed.

You know, do I regret I did it differently?

No.

I just think I learned a lot from it.

At the time, you know, Suzanne had the baby, I had to close the business.

It was really depressing when you've built something, and I don't know if you've always

been successful or you've had something where you built it and it's been taken from you.

You know that feeling of like, your baby has died.

It's like everything you put your hopes and dreams into didn't work out.

So you just, you feel.

I remember after that time, I went and I did a research.

And I did a retreat in Arizona in this place.

And I went on a cacti walk in the desert.

And I sort of had been so frenetic on this kind of really crazy work for two years of

just not putting my head above the parapet.

And I just, I breathed, you know, breath.

Like we learned breath way too late, I think, actually.

We could learn breath a lot earlier.

But that was the first time I really learned breath and I just was there and I just looked

up at these cacti.

And I went.

Whatever's going to come into my life, just I'm ready, just I'm ready.

I didn't quite say I am a vessel because I'm not that, you know, so spiritually way inclined.

But I have a certain element of spirituality.

So I came back.

And so all those prejudices or negativity or whatever, that exhaustion had been removed

a bit.

And then something actually two weeks later, a call came which changed the direction of

what I was doing.

You might be not that spiritual.

I mean, it depends what you mean by spiritual.

But my sense of talking to you now is that you have a spirituality about you.

I don't mean.

No, I know what you mean.

You're not out there praying.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

But I don't mean that.

But because it's that spirituality that you've got to actually get in touch with, like when

you're in the desert, looking at the cacti, you've got to get in touch with.

And if you can't get in touch with it, because you don't have that spirituality, you know,

the word's not open to it, you're not prepared to look for it.

You may not survive a failure.

You may not survive a failure to go to the next thing.

Yeah.

You may not be in a position to say, you know what, I stuffed that up, got it, I'm not going

to make that mistake again.

These are things I'll learn from it.

This is where I'm going to take you to the next stage.

It does take a certain level of spirituality.

And I think if you're not conscious, and I'd like your view on this, if you're not conscious

of the fact that you are exhausting yourself and you're not putting yourself first, you

don't know how to put yourself first, then if you do exhaust yourself, that spirituality

will disappear.

Because that's the thing, you'll rob yourself of spirituality, that strength.

Yeah.

It's important.

And some people say, oh, you're cold hearted, Mark, you know, you don't give a damn stuff.

Because, you know, I don't know about where you come from in the UK, but in Australia,

the media is pretty brutal.

And the media can rip into you pretty hard sometimes.

They do it to me.

And-

Do you ignore it?

Not on the day.

So on the day, I get pretty pissed off.

I immediately don't think to myself-

What has it touched in you?

Your ego, your sense of-

No, and I think of my father.

My father will read it.

And my dad's 90.

He won't be happy with it.

He won't want it.

He's going to watch it.

He's going to go to school.

Then I think of my, I've got four sons.

My sons will, you know, whatever.

I think about other people, to be honest with you.

I don't really give a shit what they say about me.

It's usually inaccurate anyway.

So I do sort of sit on it for a day, 24 hours.

But the next day, I wake up, I couldn't give a stuff.

It's like, it literally is fish and chip paper, what it was written on.

And some people say I'm a bit cold hearted or what's wrong with you, why don't you care?

Because I am selfless.

For me, I have to abandon that.

I can't survive otherwise I have to get over the top of that do you ever experience bad press

like that and what do you do endlessly every few days something what do you do what do you how do

you deal with it um I think when I find it the most challenging is when I might do an interview

and in an interview I'm you know you have a lovely PR companies and everyone who would kind of say

it's about this whatever and we told them let's talk about this but not this and I'm generally

open I am me you know and I don't like holding things back but I also appreciate things to be

taken out of context so I will do some interviews and something would be taken out of context and

then it will lead with a line and and that's where I either I have to look and think all right what's

been damaging my ego because it might lead with a line of you know television presenter Trini

I spent 10 years being the CEO of business but never mind um that so I just think and then I

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Whatever.

You know, who does this really affect?

It only affects me, that's fine.

Um, other times, um, I am exactly like you.

So I had some situations, um, just when I started in London

where some kind of quite tragic family events happened

and I didn't want the real situation to be in the press

because my daughter might read it.

And I didn't want her to have that rawness, you know.

So I was very protective.

I literally got her school to turn off her computer.

You know, I just wanted to protect that situation.

At some stage I had to let go.

And I had to say, she's got to find her own journey of this.

So it's exactly like you.

When it affects people who are close to me that I love,

I'm very aware and I'm overly sensitive to how it might affect them.

But otherwise, I had an agent years ago and he said,

Trini, it's tomorrow's fish and chips,

which it used to be before the digital age.

It isn't now.

So, you know, if I have lots of great articles in Forbes and the FT

and it's like, I'm thinking this is good

because I'm trying to raise money at the moment, et cetera.

And then there's a personal thing which just sort of throws that all,

and it's something, one line I say, and then it's about a sex thing.

And I'm thinking, really?

And really, this is written by a woman who came to do a business interview with me.

Really?

You know, that's when I just, or I think the one thing that we know how hard we've worked

to get to where we are, and when I, there was somebody I went out with who had money,

and they would always presume they had helped me with the business, and they were an investor,

because I didn't know them.

I didn't know them.

I didn't know them.

I didn't know them.

And I took a loan from them, and I converted it into 2% of the business.

And so the loan became a very big sum of money, which they-

They got payback a lot more.

Oh, yeah.

So, but it's just ironic that that narrative was lost a long time.

And so I just have to live with that narrative, and I have to say, I know what I've done,

and we know what we've done.

We know what we're good at.

We know what we're bad at.

And the people closest to us know that as well.

And the people who work with us know that as well, because we try to lead,

we try to lead with some inspiration.

So that's really all that should matter, and the rest is noise.

It only matters when it affects stuff that is really important to both of us,

like our business and what we're trying to do with something.

You know, then it's like, then you're kind of juggling.

You'll think, you know.

But then we have ourselves to show what we're doing and to prove what we're doing,

and we know the people we are, and that should be enough.

Are your parents still alive?

No.

Who is it that you most worry about?

In terms of what may be accurate or inaccurate about Trini Woodall in the media?

Is it mostly your daughter?

Mainly my daughter.

And also, what's interesting probably is how people who are really close friends

may sometimes have a naivety around the press.

So when I ended a relationship, there was a lot of things written,

and I didn't say anything.

I think I'd done one.

It's great.

I think I've done one.

I think I've done one.

I think I've done one.

I think I've done one.

I think I've done one.

I think I've done one.

I think I've done one.

I think I've done one.

I'm saying I'm in the mountains.

I've got a change in my life.

That was literally one sentence.

But then, you know, the Times in England did this article,

and they made it look like I'd done a big interview and a big picture of me.

And so I remember having dinner with some mutual friends about two weeks later,

and they said, you ran an amazing PR campaign at the end of your relationship.

And I said, what are you talking about?

You know, and they said, well, all those.

And I said, you know, that wasn't me, any of that.

So it's sometimes, I think what I'm, I don't know, it's so, like, trivial,

and I don't even give a shit.

We are savvy and we know.

And sometimes I'm surprised by people I'm really close to kind of think something

because we read in the paper.

Their naivety.

You get surprised by their naivety or their lack of perspective.

No, not their lack of perspective because I love them and they know me,

but just we believe what we read.

I mean, in this day and age, we shouldn't believe what we read

because there is so much false news on everything.

Totally.

You know, so anyway, it's like, let's not go there anymore.

No, the reason I say, because it happened to me last week.

So my dad, my dad lives in the city here in the city.

He rang me on the phone.

He said, oh, he said, I think his name is Bob or whatever.

Down the road, I don't know him, but the guy's not really well,

but older person like my dad.

He said, oh, he came down and sent me that.

He had a newspaper article, which by the way, no one buys a newspaper,

physical newspaper anymore.

Yeah, but this is your dad's generation, so they do.

That generation it is.

And I read this article about you and it was photographs of you there

with a pic, you know, I was a celebrity apprentice guy here

and had photographs with some celebrities that were on my show,

which is like 2015 or something.

Yeah.

And, you know, other photographs of me from 2004.

Yeah.

And he said, are these things true?

And I, a bit like you said, wow, dad, you know, they're not true about me.

Yeah.

Like, just don't worry about the media.

And I started trying to explain the media to him.

And then I tried to explain the difference between one form of media,

one mob of media, one owner of media,

versus the other.

The other owner of the media.

And I'm involved with, I'm in partnership with one of those media outlets.

And the other one doesn't like the media outlet.

And I said, I'm getting caught up in media war.

And I thought, oh my God, stop trying to explain it.

To your dad.

To me, yeah.

Who knows you really well.

Yeah, totally.

And these are the, but at the end of the day, Trini, for someone like me,

I don't care about how much money I make.

I don't care what, I mean, I do care, but I don't care.

It's not the most important thing.

The most important thing to me in my life is what my dad thinks.

Yeah.

And my kids.

Yeah.

That's all.

Yeah.

I wouldn't say struggling, but I'm still trying to work it out myself.

When I should be concerned, when I should turn the volume down.

You know, do I, should I retreat a little bit for a while,

let it all sort of smooth itself out?

And there is no answer.

There's, I mean, I had like a couple months ago and I said to,

something works.

I said, maybe we just shouldn't do any interviews for a while.

Because I was just, I was fed up with reading about myself.

You know, I just was like, oh, please.

I just, I don't, whatever.

And then here I am in Australia on a press trip.

I'm glad you're, and I appreciate you being,

so honest too, by the way.

Your book, Fearless.

Yeah.

Do you mind telling me about the book?

So Fearless is obviously by you, but it's a style of beauty life.

Is this a new book, a more recent book?

I just brought it out.

Right.

So tell me about it.

So I probably in my relationships with all the women who I connect with on social,

some of which customers are Trinidadian, some aren't.

I talk equally about life and I'm very candid about life and the feelings about life

and having confidence and challenging ourselves.

And all these different things.

And then on beauty and on style and all the things that I've done for 30 years.

And lots of people would say, where do I find when you talked about X?

You know, and I sort of, I've done 11 books.

I've sold 4 million books.

I thought my book career was over, but I did them also with Susanna.

And I, I thought actually, is there a place in the life we live in today to have a manual

which has elements of stuff I've learned over the years?

Like intellectual property in some respects.

It is exactly that.

So I thought, okay.

And somebody had said to me, please, will you do it?

I had a few publishers say, please, will you do a book?

And I said, okay, I'll do a book.

And I didn't realize also the challenge when you're running a business and doing a book.

It's very challenging.

And also the conflict between the book and the business.

So, you know, to do a book, I thought to myself, that's quite good because I'm wanting to grow America.

And strategically for me to grow America, it's probably me and then the brand.

It's the DNA of me and imbued in a book is good.

And a book is.

It's something that gets you on a sofa and on the Today Show and Good Morning, you know, that kind of stuff.

Did it work for you?

Did it get you on the sofa?

Well, I do the Today Show in America, but I haven't brought the book out in America until May.

Right.

So, but I felt that was the purpose of the book as well.

I saw this kind of work purpose and also that it would be very helpful for women to have this book.

So I did the book and, and in the book, I wanted people to ask themselves.

So at the end of each chapter, it says, ask yourself and challenge yourself.

Because that's what I do in my life.

I, and when I'm thinking about something, I will ask myself some questions and then I will challenge myself.

I like to challenge myself.

And I think if we challenge ourselves more, we can get through so much and we can have a world open up to us that we didn't realize could be there.

So that's what I did.

And it's in the Sunday Times bestseller list in the UK.

I don't know how it will do here, but I'm, I'm very excited by it.

And it is, I don't like the fact my picture's on the front.

Actually, if you do keep this book.

Can I just have it like that?

Because it's much nicer.

Great color.

Thank you.

It's my favorite color.

And it's sort of this concept and the title is two words.

It's fear less, be more.

So it's not fearless.

It's fear less.

I like that.

And it's all around.

How can we fear less in our lives?

Because when we're full of fear, we get paralyzed.

We can't move forward.

We cannot see what we are, all the decisions we can take.

So what are the different things that contribute to having less fear in our life?

So I've tried to put them in different areas.

I used to work in India.

And I, I, I used to.

When I used to go to India, I had a yoga teacher.

It was a guy.

And he once told me that his words, fear is the greatest thief of imagination.

It takes away your creativity.

You're not saying don't be fearful.

No, because I, because I, I read this book in the 80s.

You might've read it called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway.

It's a great book.

And it's a concept that we can be aware of our fear, but it shouldn't paralyze us to move.

And if we're not moving, we're going backwards.

I believe that in life, 100%, unless you're meditating in India with your yogi.

But it is that concept that, that, that movement and the momentum will propel us and give us

that energy and move us forward.

So I talk a lot about how do we get energy in our life?

A lot of my, I have most frequently asked questions, which colors do I suit and how

do I get energy?

So I talk about ways to get energy from a meditation, from a yoga, from how you set

your intentions versus what you see as your challenges for the year.

So lots of people will do new year's resolutions, but I always believe.

And it's the opposite in Australia, but you know, you have the end of the school year

and you begin in September.

So September for me is to set my, my intentions.

What, what do I really want to be doing?

You know, when I worked in TV and film, you know, and, and books, the contracts would

always terminate in July and it would, would I be re-contracted?

So there was always that anticipation.

And I lived in that place of fear in August.

I never really enjoyed my summer holidays because I was like, will I be able to pay

them?

I don't have a mortgage in September.

So how can you use September to think, what do I want to bring into my life?

And then January is what are your goals for the year?

And they're different things.

One is a kind of broader picture.

You know, am I in a job that will make me happy?

How do I feel?

Am I related?

You know, there's kind of quite big questions and you maybe have had a summer holiday.

You, I mean, you'd switch this around if you were in Australia probably.

But so there's, and then there's sort of the difference between instinct and intuition.

You know, so.

I believe very much that we should follow our intuition and instinct can be the thing

that makes us make the wrong decisions because we can instinctively hold back or we can instinctively

be scared.

Or get angry.

Or get angry.

It's more negative.

So to kind of look at those words and separate them out and see what is the difference and

go in a bit of that.

So there's a third of the book is about that kind of stuff.

And then there's a very practical level, which is your identity.

So you have a, you have the kind of grade that I will probably go, which is kind of

a mixture of brown and gray, right?

You've got a red skin tone and you have got, what are your eye colors?

Sort of hazily, browny, greeny, bluey.

I mean, they're sort of gray.

Are they gray, your eyes?

Yellow, nearly.

No, they're not yellow.

Well, I don't know what color.

I never looked at my eyes.

Okay, I know you haven't.

But you still look in the mirror.

Yours are blue.

You look in the mirror.

Thank you.

So then I say, what colors do you wear?

So it's like, this is your color palette.

Lots of people just want to have, okay, give me a sense of something by which I can then

experiment with.

Whereas if I don't know where to begin to hone that in, it's difficult to experiment.

So I sort of say, this is the color palette that you could choose from.

And these are the kind of styles you consider.

And this is the kind of makeup.

And this is what skincare is.

And when you're looking at skincare, look at the back of the inky list, which is the

ingredients of a back of skincare, so that you can be your own expert in choosing what's

good for your skin.

So it's a whole mix.

A book like this, an opportunity for you to articulate what you think about your own life

and sort of, to some extent, becomes...

A great reminder of what works for you and maybe what doesn't work for you as well, but

becomes a little bit cathartic.

Totally.

I mean, I read bits and I think, did I write that?

Yeah, totally.

Is it on Audible?

What?

Is this on Audible?

Yes, it is.

Did you have to do it yourself?

Did you read it yourself?

Yeah.

How hard is that?

Well, the thing is, the guy set two days for the studio.

And I said, I'm going to do it in a day.

Why are you setting two days?

I don't have time two days to do an Audible.

How long did you take it?

A day.

You did it in a day?

Yeah, of course I did.

My last book I did, I did it over three weeks.

I reckon I talk about an hour a day.

I thought, this is enough.

I'll come back next week.

Well, you probably then have a book that flows beautifully.

I haven't listened back to myself.

So I don't know if it's actually sounding rushed and like I've got a meeting to go

to or whether it sounds like it's got a flow.

I'm not sure.

And I don't think anyone wants to listen back to it because I think I might have rushed

it.

But I don't know.

I don't want to stop you buying the Audible.

But yeah, I didn't.

I guess you can buy it online or at all the good bookstores as well.

Trini London.

And I definitely don't know anything about makeup and or beauty care.

Could you just give me a synopsis of what Trini London does in terms of makeup and beauty

and care?

What does it mean?

All right.

I'll give you not quite an elevator pitch, but I created it because there was a sort

of marginalized group of women I call 35 plus, I call the grown up woman, who needed really

efficient solutions that had integrity and were premium in terms of their good ingredients

and easy to do.

Because we're time poor, but still made you feel very quickly.

Great.

And I would start, I knew, with makeup because whenever I did makeovers around the world,

the first thing women noticed that make them feel in relationship and in touch with their

body and everything else was makeup because they could then reset.

So I thought I'd start with makeup and then I have five verticals and I know what I want

to do.

I started in 2017, end of 2017.

So we now have a million customers in 120 countries and we're 80% online.

We sell about 50% in the UK, about 20% in Australia, about 10% in America and the rest

of the world.

And we sell makeup for four years and then we launched skincare, which is my second vertical,

last year.

So that is getting into makeup I love.

It's all done to me differently.

It's stackable.

It's portable.

It's easy to use.

People enjoy it.

And skincare is about integrity and ingredients and we have our own lab and we develop things

from scratch.

It's sort of white labeled in the beauty community and I wanted to just be able to know every

raw ingredient that I wanted to put in there and put them in with integrity and create

skin that can change.

So that's our second vertical.

So I've got three more verticals.

Will you tell us some of the three?

No, I won't.

Come on.

No way.

And obviously you use it yourself.

I want to ask you a question and I don't want to embarrass you, but how do you keep yourself

so beautiful, like literally beautiful in your shape, the way you dress?

I'm looking at your hands, your nails, your face, your skin, your hair.

That's not something you just did from 2017, so I mean obviously there's genetics involved

too.

But how do you think you have done it?

What helped is when I was 13, I had incredibly bad acne until I was 30.

So it affected my self-worth quite a lot and it was cystic and I would hate like this kind

of lighting.

I would be sitting talking to you like this with hairs in the front.

So I was so self-conscious.

And at 30, I tried every single beauty brand to try and help my acne, every different type

of pill you could take.

And in the end, I took a pill called Racotene.

Oh yeah, another one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I then got rid of it.

So my journey didn't start of one of confidence.

My journey started from a place of great insecurity, probably.

I've always been tall and skinny, I'm the shortest person in my family, that helps.

And I've always felt, although I hated doing any games at school, I put myself on the

off games list because we had to do lacrosse and cold winter things and we swam in a lake

with eels in it.

It was a very old fashioned school.

I never really liked sport, but I always liked Pilates, which I've done for 30 years.

So I feel that any movement I do with my body is so important to keep me strong and to keep

my energy.

Yeah.

And as I went through menopause, I realized I can't have so much sugar because the inflammation

in our bodies, we have to look at.

We have to look at what sugar is doing to our body.

You know this stuff because I know you're really healthy, okay?

So inflammation and I thought, I don't know if you know David Sinclair, I'm sure you've

looked, checked him out, the Harvard guy.

But just looking at longevity, I'm interested to know, my mother had Alzheimer's and my

father died from diabetes.

And I'm really aware between that memory and that sugar, what I want to do differently.

So I look after myself.

Would you say you're very disciplined though, structurally?

Yes.

In a proper scheduled way.

Well, you kind of have to when you've got a lot going on in the day.

So you kind of have to slot it in, but I'm aware that I need to look after myself.

So where does nutrition fit into the beauty regime or regimen?

Regimen is such a bad word, isn't it?

It is.

It's a shitty word.

Routine.

Let's come up with another word.

Routine?

Yeah, routine.

So where does nutrition come into that?

And can you vary?

Do you break out in terms of your routine?

You say, fuck it, I'm going to have pizza and a beer tonight.

Yes.

For sure.

Yeah.

There's a very good place called Oak Pizza in London.

It's my favorite pizza.

My daughter and I order it.

But I generally start the day.

So when I'm in London, I start the day with fuel.

So I have a big omelet with a lot of broccoli and I eat broccoli first.

I follow that woman, the glucose goddess, quite like her.

And I quite like Tim Spector.

These are two people who I think they're looking at what do we eat, you know.

And sometimes I see some days food for me is the fuel to give me a good day to keep

me from having a brain fog.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm in Italy, you know, in Naples having the best bloody pizza ever or some delicious

primavera risotto.

And I want to just inhale the morsels of that.

And food should be there to be enjoyed.

But equally, I stopped doing sugar in the afternoon when I'm at the office because it

just turns me into a slug.

Yeah.

As in chocolate?

No, I have dark chocolate.

But as in like sort of, you know, something sweet and instantly fake sugary shit.

Do you find that as you, as we get older and is there a, does it become like an obsession,

like I'm an obsessive person?

Can we just say instead of as we get older, can we just say reframe it, as we go down the

path of life?

As we get in the path of life.

Thank you.

I'll go with that.

Yeah.

Do you find that if you have an obsessive personality, in other words, a person wants

to try and perfect things, I don't mean a perfectionist, just try to perfect things,

try to get things right.

Mm-hmm.

And be quite relentless about it.

Mm-hmm.

Do you feel as though we start to direct that energy as we go down the path of life

into longevity is a shitty word, but like trying to extend the period at which we are

going to be able to function well for beyond what would ordinarily be natural years for

us compared to our parents, for example.

This is such a subjective thing because I'm very interested in something right now because

I was talking in a church.

Yeah.

I was talking in a church in Bath a few weeks ago and I was saying, it'd be nice if I lived

to 120.

Now, there's good and bad in that.

On the path of life right now as the practicality of life, most people are in a job rather than

being an entrepreneur like you and I and they will have a salary and they'll have a pension.

So things will run out at a certain stage.

So life has been so conditioned over so many years that we live till 70, 80 or 90 or maybe

100.

And you know, you probably upscale and then you downsize.

And then your kids get a bit of money and they try and buy a home and you go to something

smaller and then you have a little money put aside and then you live off that.

And then you know, you've got enough to live off and maybe leave your kids some.

Kind of general path of life.

But we're challenging that because we're saying we're enjoying this life.

Why should we, you know, when I hear, I have a female friend who said to me, Trini be aware,

you know, you should really think about things like, cause you might only have 25 good summers

left.

And I was like, what the fuck?

What the fuck, Jane?

Because I don't think like that.

I don't think in terms of age.

So when people then want to think into, I'm like, why we're living this moment that we're

living.

We need to do.

We need to be practical.

I don't own a home.

I talk about this a lot.

I don't own a home because my investment is in my business.

Now one day my business, I might be able to release some cash and I won't own a home.

And I won't have faith in that because it would be silly not to have faith in that.

Um.

So I want to feel capable.

It's very interesting when we look at how people age, because I can look, we can look

at somebody much older and think, what is their quality of life?

And maybe this is in our parents, if we're in our 50s, 60s and think that's not a great

quality of life, but people cling onto life, you know, so people's lives become smaller.

And so what is around them is the most important thing.

So we look with a bigger sense.

We look with a bigger sense of life and we compare our inside with their outside, which

we should just, it's never going to come up equal in life.

So I know that I, I don't want to turn into my parents.

I don't want to be incapable or my body, I can no longer, it doesn't look after me.

So it compromises my ability to decide when I'm 80 to want to climb Kilimanjaro or whatever

it might be.

I want to feel as long as possible.

I want to have all opportunities open to me.

So I need to invest in order to have those opportunities open to me.

So what am I prepared to do?

Because a lot of people might say, oh, I really like drinking and I like lots of glasses of

Rose, but it's like, is there a short term gain to not a long-term goal?

I'm sort of the same.

So I sort of, I flipped it around when I was younger, I was into everything and I lived

every day was a thing.

Ooh, you gave me that look.

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, you did.

And you're correct.

But I lived every day as a transaction and every day was I took everything out of everything.

I consumed everything I possibly could, everything.

Today I'm putting things in reserve in relation to my personality and my personal life because

I want to live a longer period.

So I'm a big fan of Peter Otea, Dr. Peter Otea, American guy.

But I'm probably more a big fan of the science of living longer and living better.

I've got three grandkids now.

And I look at my old man.

He's like, he's 90 and my dad that is, and he can, he can do everything.

That's great.

Mum died, similar to, my mum died of motor neurone disease, but pretty dreadful.

You start to think about this sort of stuff and you start to break down your life.

And all of a sudden it's not no longer a comp, it's not a compromise to me.

If I say, yeah, I'm not going to have that extra glass of wine or I'm not even going

to have a glass of wine.

It's not a compromise to me to say, I'm going to get up at five and go to the gym and do

a little bit of a harder workout than I probably should.

You know, you know, compared to myself.

Yeah.

Compared to my age that is, it's not a compromise for me to say, I'm not going to eat today.

I'm going to have a day of no food because I sort of feel like I'm banking something

for the future.

Now it could be false.

It's not false.

I might not make it, but I'm prepared to take the risk.

You know, and I'm like you, I want to lift a hundred healthily.

I don't want to be a sort of getting dragged around in a wheelchair, you know, at 90 or

something like that.

I don't want my kids to be pushing me around the joint.

But I do want to enjoy all the stuff there is in front of me.

Like I love doing what I'm doing.

I love talking to people like you.

I'd like to be doing this when I'm 80, you know, that's not that far away, but I would

love to be sitting down and talking to someone like, you know, Trini Woodall about what she's

doing and because it energizes you.

So much.

Do you get energy from the people around you or do you give energy to the people around

you?

Both.

Both.

Because I, I have a lot of energy to give and I have a lot of people who feed that.

So.

Does that come back to you?

Yeah.

Or just like you talked about filling the tank.

So when I was in Warringah yesterday on the Northern Shore and we had this thing for 180

women and they all came and I spoke to each one of them for a few minutes and they all

had lovely things to say.

But you know, I said to them, you give me my energy, you know, I have, I only have this

energy because, because there's this thing going on, you know, that we can't physically

see it, but it's there.

And you know, when we were doing COVID and a lot of people say, you got me through COVID

stuff.

And I was like, because I was going down the screen feeling, you and I feel people, you

know, we go in a room and we feel that person who's most challenged probably.

There's that certain ESP, intuition, and we need to give and, and have that connection

and always have, I always want to have that connection.

I always want to be learning something.

I never want to get into some fixed mindset where life becomes smaller.

And is that why you do what you do?

Because it's, it is a bit selfish.

I can, I get this part.

I can be giving all my energy to an audience, but what the audience doesn't realize is I'm

actually getting all their energy back and I actually think it's, I'm probably plus one

after that.

I actually, I mean, I walk off and feel exhausted, but I feel unreal.

I love the feeling.

Is that sort of how you roll too?

Exactly.

We're very similar in the way you described how you give the people opportunity to have

a home.

Yeah.

So it goes back to that sort of golden apple, whatever it's, sorry, whatever it's called

of that.

Uh, Chloe, you remember it?

What's it called?

The Golden Circle.

Thank you.

The Golden Circle.

Cause I remember Chloe showing this diagram years ago when we were starting to move London,

but we do something and the byproduct is a mortgage for you.

So you know, I want to make women feel better.

The byproduct is I have, I have beauty products and that's what we do.

That's what drives us.

You know, you make people feel better about themselves.

I make people feel better about themselves and it's the most motivating thing you can

do.

That's interesting.

Um, in terms of, um, Trinity London, that's really your purpose.

That's the purpose of the business.

Put it that way.

It's to make people feel better about themselves and everybody deserves to feel better about

themselves.

Everybody does.

It's just like me.

Everybody deserves to feel secure and have a roof over their head somewhere in their

life.

If that's their deal.

If that's how they are.

And, uh, and, and I'm always saying to people, understand, you know, you get, you understand

this, the so-called why everyone keeps writing about it, but at the end of the day, it's

about satisfying.

It's about getting some emotion of the people you deal with and like your customer base

or your audience, whatever it might be.

And it's really important to tap into that emotion and it's pretty simple shit.

Like it's really simple stuff.

People who run restaurants are trying to fill people's bellies to make us feel fulfilled

and happy, satiated.

You know, that's a pretty simple thing.

So don't treat me like a shit bag when I walk into your place to get a cup of coffee, treat

me warmly, offer me the coffee.

It's a pretty important thing that I need to have.

Yeah.

I don't have a business and I'll never come back.

Yeah.

It's pretty simple.

I don't know how, um, um, emotionally, uh, connected or, or I don't know how good my

IQ is, emotional IQ is, but I know these in a practical sense, I know that I'm fulfilling

someone else's emotion.

That in itself makes me feel good.

So in that regard, I consider myself selfish.

I had a guy.

It's, it's.

I don't care.

I couldn't care less if I, I consider myself selfish because I'm actually, everyone's happy.

Yeah.

I'm happy.

They're happy.

I'm cool.

I had a guy sitting here one time and, uh, he's quite a well-known guy in Australia.

And, um, his kids unfortunately got killed in a car accident by a person who was on drugs

who was driving, killed three of his kids.

And he runs a campaign about forgiveness now.

And, uh, I said to him, Danny, how is it you didn't feel like, like grabbing hold of the

person, did it at the scene when you went and saw your kids dead on the ground?

Yeah.

Um, you didn't sort of get angry and violent, which I, I, I just assumed I wouldn't.

He said, Mark, you'd be interested to know this.

He said, first thing I want to do is look at my kids and be there with them when they're

also dying.

He said, but the most important thing is over time, he said, if I was angry with this person,

I had to be selfish.

I had to learn to be a forgiving person in order to get over the bitterness consuming

me.

Mm-hmm .

I thought it was such a unbelievable.

And he's only a young person.

Yeah.

But it's such an unbelievable, um, way of, and analyzing how to deal with a tragedy.

And, uh, and sometimes it is important.

And he said to me, he was being selfish.

Mm-hmm .

It was about himself.

Mm-hmm .

Not trying to give something.

Yeah.

It wasn't a gift of forgiveness.

It was a gift to himself in order to be.

It was a way to heal.

Correct.

And for me, I think what we're talking about today, and I think everybody should consider

this, it's nothing wrong with being selfish as long as it doesn't hurt, hurt anybody.

And in fact, if it helps somebody.

Yeah.

It gives them something to make them feel better.

Like in your case, you make people feel better about themselves and feel good about themselves.

That's perfect.

Mm-hmm .

That's the, a perfect formula, but it does take a long time to get there.

Trini, thanks very much for coming in today.

I'm, I actually feel quite privileged.

I mean, everyone here was raving about you before you came in yesterday day when I'm

getting briefed and everything.

Um, but thank you for coming in.

I really appreciate it.

Um, it's a big deal for someone like me to have someone like you in this room and, uh,

and thanks for sharing your, you know, honest thoughts.

It was good getting, getting to know you.

Thanks very much.

Thank you for listening to another episode of Straight Talk with Mark Borris.

Audio production by Jessica Smalley.

Production assistants, Jonathan Leondis and Dimitri Gromos.

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