John Aloisi is responsible for one of the greatest moments
in Australian sport.
As he stepped up and scored the penalty to send the Socceroos
to the 2006 World Cup, he etched his name in history
and changed soccer in Australia forever.
G'day, it's Luke D'Arcy.
The idea of self-improvement and leadership both on and off the field
has been a lifelong passion of mine.
With one of my oldest friends, we created a leader collective
and I've had the privilege of working with thousands of leaders
in education, sport, industry and the arts
that have helped shift to what we see as the 21st century style of leadership
where everyone has a voice.
In this podcast, we hear stories from these iconic leaders.
What mindset and leadership skills allow you to execute perfectly
in the biggest moment of your sporting life?
How do you use the power of visualisation and positivity
to create the outcomes you want in life
while still maintaining the spirit of the sport?
Whilst also being real and working through the many challenges
life sends our way.
John Aloisi is now using the same determination and self-belief
as the head coach of the A-League's newest club, Western United.
Having survived a serious health scare in recent times,
how is an Australian sporting legend approaching the next chapter in his life?
John Aloisi is a legend of Australian sport.
He is widely respected as one of Australia's soccer's greatest ever players.
The first Australian player to play at the highest level
and score in the three big leagues of world soccer,
La Liga in Spain, Premier League in UK and Serie A in Italy.
John scored 127 goals in his 459 senior appearances
in an outstanding professional career spanning 20 years.
On top of that, John scored 27 goals in 55 matches representing Australia,
a record at the time of John's retirement from the game.
John's penalty kick that took the Socceroos into the 2006 World Cup
was voted by the Sport Australia Hall of Fame,
as one of the three greatest moments in Australian sporting history.
John is the current head coach of A-League club, Western United.
And I feel very privileged to call Johnny a friend.
We went to school together, John, way back in year three.
And it's always great to catch up with you, mate.
Thanks for your time today.
Thanks for having me on, Daz.
Well, I'm going to go back, mate,
because it's a story you and I have shared over many years.
And I think you probably know where I'm heading with this.
But in year four, our teacher was Peter Waters, Muddy Waters.
And you and I have spoken over the years about his influence.
He's probably the teacher we love the most.
But he asked us to do an exercise to put a time capsule into the ground
that was going to be open in 2020.
Now, you and I have talked about this for a long time.
What was your recollection of that event?
Yeah, it was funny because ever since I remember,
I wanted to be a footballer.
I wanted to play professional football.
So I remember when Muddy Waters told us or asked us to do this,
we were excited and wrote down on a piece of paper.
And then you put this in the time capsule.
And I swear I put that.
I was going to play for Australia or, you know,
play professional football in Europe.
And I don't know if it's true or not, but I swear I did.
And I think you did the same.
You said you're going to be an AFL footballer.
Yeah, the exercise was, wasn't it?
What was your life going to look like in 2020?
So that was, you know, the cap capsule was supposed to be open two years ago.
Little did I realize I was going to be 45 years old.
Well, that's right, mate, and how life turned out.
And you and I used to say, hey, I know exactly what it was.
You and I were very much the same age.
I was determined that I was going to play AFL football
and used to get laughed at at that age.
But that was always you from my memory, John.
You had a really clear focus on what you wanted to be from that young age.
And so I have been back to the school for the first time in 30 years.
And I walked around trying to find that time capsule, Johnny,
just to see and spoke to the principal.
Apparently, yeah, there are time capsules planted everywhere around the grounds.
But I've often wondered, you know, it'd be great to open that up
and see if actually what we had in mind turned out as we planned.
Yeah, that would be great.
And I think COVID hindered us opening it up in 2020.
So, yeah, you never know.
It would be funny if I put, like, I wanted to be a schoolteacher
because I love muddy water so much.
We've been talking about that for a long while, haven't we?
So we have to make that happen at some stage, Johnny.
Now, another incident that I haven't spoken to you about for a while,
but we were great friends, you know, growing up.
But the school we went to, Ross-Tripper College, was interesting.
It was almost sort of 50-50.
There was a lot of Italian families like the Aloysius,
and a really strong sporting school, soccer program,
when you and your brother Ross were coming through.
And on the other side, we were the strong AFL guys.
And as was the case in about year nine, testosterone-filled,
a few blues would start breaking out, you know,
between the skips, as you'd call us.
And do you remember the principal grabbing you and me and saying,
hey, we need to sort this out?
And clearly he saw leadership in you because you were the only guy
that crossed over and played cricket with us guys as well as soccer.
But you were there as a mediator at that stage.
Do you remember that?
I remember being a mediator.
I can't remember the principal pulling us aside.
I remember you and I getting together and saying, look, you know,
this is getting ridiculous now.
You know, we're fighting on the hill.
It's about 100 guys having a fight.
It's like, what are we fighting for?
So we had to sort of calm, you know, I had to calm my group down,
you know, the soccer boys, and you probably calmed the, you know,
the Aussie Rules boys down.
And then I think Ladron, it was fine.
I can't remember after that there being any issues.
But, you know, it was great.
It was a funny era back then because it was really split, the school.
You know, there were, you know, you just hung around with, you know,
the sport that you played in and it happened to be a lot of Italians.
And, you know, with you it would have been, you know, the Skips,
as we called them, or the Aussies.
But, you know, we didn't, like, our friendship wasn't the same
as it was in primary school because we were really close.
But we still had a really good respect for each other.
So that's probably why I think, you know, the principal got us aside
because they could see that.
We respected each other and, you know, where we were coming from.
And perhaps we could sort it out.
But you always had presence, Johnny.
Everything about you from young age, I remember.
Whatever you did, you had presence.
Did you feel like you were a leader as a young guy in your community?
No, I didn't feel like I was a leader.
I just, you know, used to do things because I loved it.
You know, maybe that sometimes, you know, it shows a bit of presence
because you're really passionate about something.
And, you know, I remember, you know, playing soccer at school.
You know, now looking back.
I remember a lot of the players following, you know, when I was playing,
you know, what I was doing and how, you know, that they would turn to me
if it was a close game.
And I remember a teacher pulling me aside once.
So that's when I started to think the influence I had on my teammates was,
you know, I got sent off in a game and they weren't too happy about it.
And the reason why I got sent off, I lost my head.
And the teacher goes, you know, do you understand that what you're doing
isn't positive for your team?
Because they really look up to you and turn to you when, you know,
they go and get staffed.
So if you do that, they're going to lose control as well.
So that's when it sort of clicked a little bit that I was one of the leaders of that team.
And I remember, John, we talk about, you know, year four and the time capsule
and, you know, a long discussion around you wanting to be a professional sportsman.
I had the exact same goals.
But then at 15 years of age, 1991, you make your senior debut for Adelaide City
in the National Soccer League.
Incredibly strong competition at that stage.
You're just a schoolboy.
And I remember looking up thinking, my God, John's there already.
I mean, when you look back, I mean, it was an incredible effort at 15.
You scored eight goals in that first year.
Like you had an impact.
Did you think that maybe that was too young or were you ready?
No, I felt that I was ready.
And when you're that young, you sort of got that fearless nature about you.
You know, you think, well, I can conquer the world here.
And because I was training with these players, you know, night in, night out,
because at that time,
semi-professional, they would go to work in the morning,
I'd be going to school and then at night we'll be training together.
And I'd been training with them already at the age of 14.
So it wasn't like, you know, one training session and I'm thrown into the team.
And it was pretty ruthless back then.
So the senior boys, if, you know, you weren't doing the right thing,
they would let you know and not as nice as what we do now with the younger players.
But we had great leadership in that team as well
because we had the best players.
The likes of Aurelio Vidmar, a Socceroo, Milan Ivanovic, a Socceroo,
Alex Tobin, the captain of the Socceroos, you know, all in that side.
And so, you know, I was able to sort of follow them and they helped me a lot too.
So when I went on to the pitch, it wasn't like there was a bunch of young kids.
There was a lot of senior pros that actually helped me and looked after me.
So it was great for me.
It was a good learning experience.
I didn't stay too long because I ended up going to the Institute of Sports.
I bought after that, which was all the best young talented players from that era,
which, you know, Mark Viduka, Josip Skoko, Craig Moore.
So we had a pretty good group.
And that was a first taste of living away from home.
So that's when I started to realize, okay, it's not just about football.
It's not just about, you know, being good at your sport.
It's about, you know, how do you cope away from home when things aren't going well?
And so that matured me a lot.
You mentioned those names, Aurelio Vidmar and Alex Tobin.
And then you go to the Institute of Sport, Mark Viduka.
These are some of the greats of Australian soccer and Australian sport.
I mean, do you see, timing was probably great for you, really, wasn't it?
To come through in an era where, you know, you guys really changed the way those
who don't follow the round ball game as closely really viewed Australian soccer.
And a lot of you went international and went on and had great success.
Yeah, timing, look, it's everything.
But it also, you know, it's the opportunity.
You're there, ready for that opportunity.
You know, people had the same opportunity and probably didn't take it.
But, you know, I was fortunate that I, I probably at the time didn't realize, because I didn't
know Mark Viduka was going to be, you know, the superstar he was.
I was one of his teammates, you know, I was trying to, you know, play alongside him and
we're trying to win football games.
But with Aurelio Vidmar, Milano Vanic, Alex Tobin, I knew at that stage they were already
at that level playing for the Socceroos.
But I was involved in a club, Adelaide City, that, you know, I was involved in a club,
and, you know, that's where I think I was fortunate, because, you know, I took the
opportunity because I was in such a good club.
And you know what it's like, if you're playing and training with the best, you become better.
And, and so that's where, not only them, but also my brother, because my brother was
three years older than me.
So I always had someone there that I was striving to, to get to that level or be better or,
And, and that helps you, you know, probably progress a lot quicker than what others would
if they weren't training at that level.
I want to speak about you.
Your brother, Ross, who had an outstanding professional career.
I know the two of you have coached together and, and had this incredible connection over
And your dad, Rocky, is this legendary figure in your life.
You know, when I speak to you over, over, over the journey, Rocky's influence, you know,
always is a big part of, of, of what he was able to impart on you.
Can you describe, you know, the leader that your dad is and what he's been like for you
Yeah, my dad, look, it's funny because he was hard.
He was a, he was a hard person.
And he didn't give you too many compliments, if any, growing up.
So it was always, you know, if, if you came home, I remember like at sports night, you
know, at, at school, you know, I came home with a few athletics trophies, a few soccer
trophies, and, you know, someone's congratulating me and, and my dad goes, yeah, that means
nothing, you know, and you have to work harder.
And, you know, it was always about work ethic, work ethic, work ethic.
And, you know, I used to see that he used to go off to work at, you know, wake up at
5.30 and, you know, he, he, he, you know, he, you know, he, you know, he, you know, he, you
know, him and my uncle or he and my uncle had their business, uh, uh, cabinetry business
that they built up from, you know, the seventies and, uh, and it's been going ever since.
And he's still working, still, you know, owns the business and runs the business.
So he's, uh, he's always been a leader from a young age.
And then he was coaching at a young age and then coaching us.
And, um, you know, he, he coached me and, and he said, you have to be better than the
other players or else I can't pick you.
So that means train hard.
It's like school.
Don't just come to training and, you know, like going to school, don't just go to school.
You need to go home and do your homework to get better, you know, read and, you know,
And that's the same with, um, with soccer, go out in the backyard, kick the ball against
the wall, train with your brother, um, you know, whenever you can play, play.
And so, you know, he instilled that within us, that, that work ethic, but I'll never
And he was a mad cricketer, you know, he loved cricket and played amateur cricket, you know,
nothing at a high level, but he took it serious.
And, uh, I remember going and watching him once and there was a grand final and, you
know, his team was down and out and he was a fast bowler.
He was a mean fast bowler.
He wasn't too nice actually.
And he didn't mind a bouncer here or there.
And they put a few people in hospital with the, the, the delivery.
Big Rocky, did he?
Cause back then they didn't wear helmets.
So, you know, they used to want to show you how much they were.
And, um, you know, his team were losing.
They, they, they needed a six wickets or whatever.
And there was only 20 runs left.
And, um, and the captain at the time, which was his cousin.
He said, oh, you know, let's give, uh, someone else a bowl.
He goes, I've been busting my gut all day in this heat.
He goes, I'm fighting till the end.
He goes, so if you're taking me off, I'm walking off the field.
So my dad's cousin was scared of him.
And, uh, my old man took a wicket, then took another one, took another one and bowled them
And, uh, and that lived with me because that, that, that showed that you never give up.
You know, you keep going right to the end.
And that's something that, you know, has lived with me forever.
You're a parent of, uh, of three beautiful daughters.
And, uh, I want to speak about Andrew as your childhood sweetheart, you're married
at 15 and your, and your own family.
I didn't marry at 15.
I was, I was with her.
You were with her from 15 and you've been married and, uh, had the three beautiful daughters
and traveled all around the world playing, playing soccer.
But you, but you look back at your dad's, your dad's influence, that influenced your
parenting style or you're a softer version of that or?
Um, yeah, softer version.
Um, but you know, also clear with the, you know, the, the way you want to bring up your
kids in, you know, the, the values that you.
You try and, you know, uh, instill in them and, uh, and what, you know, that, that, uh,
you know, that the respect factor and, and all that.
And, uh, so yeah, there's a lot of traits that, you know, from both my parents that
you, you try and, and, and then you, you know, you have to be your own person.
I'm not exactly like my old man.
So, um, but yeah, a lot of those things, you know, you, you feel, you know, he was, uh,
he was very, he was a lot stricter than what I am.
He was, uh, you know, if I had a game, you know, the next day he goes, you can't, you
can't go to that party, you know, do, what do you want to do?
Do you want to focus on non-playing soccer or do you want to go to the party?
I'm a little bit more lenient in that way.
Do you look back and do you think that that was massive in, in your development?
I mean, to back you in as a, as a parent and say, you're ready to go and play, you know,
in the NSL as a 15 year old, he obviously had a lot of confidence in you and he was
pretty tough on you.
But I also remember if you felt like someone was on the wrong side of the Aloysio boys,
Rocky could come to school and let everyone know exactly where that stood too.
So he was, he was in your corner.
And I think that's a sign of, uh, good parenting and good leadership is that, you know, you're,
you're strong with an individual, but you also have to show your caring part.
His caring part was to show that if anyone was against us and he knew that, you know,
we were in the right, he would back us all the way.
And, uh, and then that was something, but yeah, you know, looking back, I can't understand
the playing the NSL at the age of 15, you know, he obviously, you know, felt that I
was good enough and, you know, that he didn't have an issue, uh, that because physically
At a, at a good level.
Um, but allow me to go overseas and follow my dreams at the age of 16, that, that would
have been hard on, uh, on my parents.
And, uh, but you know, he saw that, you know, in my eyes, obviously that there was something
there that I was driven and I was going to make it at all costs.
And so he allowed me to do that because back then it's, you know, there were, uh, there
weren't, there was no Facebook or there was no, you know, FaceTime or there was no phone.
There wasn't a mobile phone, you're right.
So, so it was, uh, you know, call home once a week, you know, the reverse dial and, and
So it's, uh, yeah, looking back, I'm, I'm thankful that they allowed me to do that.
And, and I mentioned in the intro, Johnny, as the, as the first Australian to, to play
in the three big leagues and, you know, you, you went, played Serie A and you had a great
stint in the, in the English Premier League and a fantastic time at Osasuna in Spain.
But as you said, you're a 16 year old, your first stop was in the Netherlands, was it?
In Belgium, sorry.
I mean, that must, you must've had some experience.
Did you feel like packing it in at stages and coming home and, and what within you got
you through that?
Yeah, there were, there were definitely moments that, uh, I just wanted to come home.
I think that lasted probably about the first two, three years that I just.
Yeah, it was, it was tough.
So when I first went to Belgium, I went to Liège in the French speaking part and, you
know, not too many of the, the players spoke English or they didn't want to speak English
to you because you're taking a, a local spot.
Um, and then I went to the.
The Flemish speaking part in Antwerp, which was a little bit easier because the majority
of the people spoke English, you know, then, you know, you, you, you seem to find friends
outside of football, which is important because, you know, in football, you go on, who do I
Who are really my mates and who are just there to, you know, fight for your place.
So, um, but yeah, there were, there were times, what kept me going was that I knew that to
play at the highest level, I need to stay in Europe and also looking back and then, you
know, speaking to, you know, people and then also my, my parents about, you know, what my
grandparents did, you know, so my grandfather, uh, and a lot of the, you know, the Italian
immigrants did the same, the ones that migrated to Australia, you know, my grandfather moved
to Australia four years before the rest of his family to, to, to, you know, have enough
money to bring them all over.
And I'm thinking, look, if he could do it back then, you know, because he was, for them,
it was about survival.
It was about building a better life.
For me, it's about, you know, I want to achieve something in the sport.
So it's, it's not too dissimilar.
If you really want something, you know, you deal with the hard times and, and that, that
got me through a lot.
You're a 16 or 17 though, John's young and you pick up the phone.
What, what happened when you rang mom or rang, you know, your dad, Rocky, what was their
Would they stick it out?
Yeah, they'll, they'll stick it out.
They'll stick it out.
They said, look, we'll be always here to support you.
If you want to come home and you badly want to come home, you know, there's, there's,
you know, we'll be here to support that as well.
But, um, you know, it was the many times that I was crying because.
You know, it was like, I just don't know if I can do this.
And, but, uh, my brother was good.
My brother helped me because at that time, my brother had already been overseas and then
come back to Australia.
He said, do you really want to come back and work and play semi-professional football?
Or do you want to stay over there and play professional football?
So, you know, he, he, uh, he gave me pretty good advice.
He goes, don't come back.
So Ross was strong.
He goes, stick it out.
Was there some regret for him that maybe it didn't quite work out?
He played professional.
He ended up going back overseas.
But there was regret that he came back too early.
He should have stuck it out, you know, as much, as long as possible because, you know,
but then after that, he's, you know, things work out anyway.
But, uh, at that time he was, he didn't really want to be back in Australia playing.
John, I don't think you would have had a conversation, uh, since this moment where it hasn't been
brought up and it's defined your life.
Not a bad thing to define your life, John.
I wonder how many times you've actually heard and seen, I assume you don't get bored of
And I said in the intro, the, uh, the Sport Australia Hall of Fame.
Voted this moment as one of the three greatest moments in Australian sporting history.
You clearly know what I'm about to do.
16th of November, 2005, Australia versus Uruguay.
How many times have you, have you seen it before I play it back to you, Johnny?
I wake up to it every morning, Dax.
Good way to start your day, mate.
Is it, is it the thing that everyone wants to talk to you about the most more than anything?
Uh, in Australia it is definitely.
Um, you know, if I go back to Spain, it's something else.
You know, if I'm in England, it will be, you know, it will vex the teams that I play
It'll be something else.
But in Australia, it definitely is.
And, and the thing is, uh, what I love about it and, you know, it, it take away that, you
know, I live the moment is where people were and people always want to bring up, you see,
you know, where I was in that, that I was in a pub or I was here and I was at the stadium
and I was hiding behind a pole and, you know, strangers are hugging me.
And have I told you where I was?
Cause it's one of those moments where everyone, so I did my knee at the start of 2000.
And five, uh, season.
So I was just, uh, named captain of the board, did my knee.
So I'm feeling pretty down and I'm downstairs on the couch and, and Beck was asleep upstairs
and, you know, just had the surgery.
So keep the knees steady.
Don't, you know, move it.
The grass got a stick.
And then you scored the goal and I leapt off the couch and screamed because I thought I'd
Beck comes running down.
I'm like, Johnny scored the goal.
He's got us into the world cup.
You went into that huddle at that moment.
And said, I'm going to take the last kick.
So you're either the hero or, or zero effectively.
What in you had that ability to back yourself in and trust yourself to take that moment?
There were moments in my career that, uh, that I used to tell myself that this was going
It was, uh, you know, that like when I was younger, that I was going to become a professional
footballer or, you know, that I was going to play in the Serie A or, or, and, uh, and
for, uh, I had a lot of setbacks with the national team.
That, you know, I didn't always play or, you know, the previous world cup campaign against
Um, I played about five minutes and that was in 2001.
And I remember after that, you know, I was, I was so down that I was, I thought, you know,
I don't really want to play for the national team again.
And, uh, and then, you know, give it a couple.
That's unheard of.
You know, many people would say we always see the glory at the end, but you were that
You thought not for, not for you maybe.
Because I was, I was part of it, but you know, when you're not really playing a big,
you start to go, it weighs you down after a while because you're traveling here, there
You're not always playing.
And then, and then I thought, you know, no, um, I really, I really believe that I can
do something special with the national team.
And, uh, and so, uh, you know, I was saying that the next four years I need to be playing
at the highest level possible, the best, you know, that, that I've played.
So then I, um, the next qualifying campaign, I'll play a big part.
Um, and what gave me a bit of confidence was the Confederations Cup leading
I was, uh, you know, the second leading goal scorer that we, you know, along with, uh,
Balak, who was a German international that, uh, so it was in the tournament that we played
in Germany where the World Cup was going to be held.
And we had, uh, Germany in our group scored a couple of goals against them, had Argentina
in our group scored a couple of goals against them.
So I scored four in this, this tournament.
Against the Germans and the Argentinians.
That gives you some confidence.
So I'm feeling confident.
After that, I said, I used to say to my family and, uh, and Angela, my wife, you know, on
nearly a daily basis.
Oh, I'm going to score the winning goal to take Australia to the World Cup.
And they used to just go, all right, all right, good, good on you.
You know, all right, leave us alone.
Stop talking about yourself because I don't know if I did it also subconsciously to get
myself to believe it and say it out loud as often as possible.
So it was, it was going to happen.
It's brilliant, Johnny, isn't it?
And it seems to me that has been your ability to manifest what you want has been a real
So you're half doing that, convincing yourself.
So when that moment arrives, did you know that you were going to ask for the last kick?
Well, I didn't know because I didn't know that, uh, look, I thought that the day before
we were, we practiced the penalty each and whatever else and, uh, you know, in training
and, and, um, and then we, we stayed behind a couple of us, you know, myself, Lucas Neal
and, and I hit it, you know, five penalties, all the same corner down that end actually.
And, uh, cause I felt that was where our main supporters are going to be.
That's where we're going to take the penalties.
And Lucas turned to me, he goes, why are you taking it all the same side?
And I said, well, I'm on the bench.
You know, if I come on, I'm only going to get one opportunity, you know, probably be
in a penalty shootout or something like that.
But I actually believed I was going to score a normal time because I came on with about
And I just felt that it's going to happen.
It's going to happen.
It's going to happen.
And then, um, Graham Arnold, who was the assistant coach at the time to Gus Hitting, um, you know,
we got into the group and he said, uh, he wants to take a penalty.
I said, yeah, I do.
And he said, okay, you go number one.
I said, no, no, put me number five.
And then as soon as, uh, he said, okay, I just walked off.
So I didn't know who else was taking a penalty.
I had no idea, you know, who was taking a penalty.
I just walked off and then just got into this zone of, uh, just, you know, concentrating,
focusing on what I was doing the day before.
And so you knew then top right corner at that stage.
No, no, nothing else.
I wasn't going to hesitate.
That, that, that was it.
That was my strongest side.
I felt really comfortable.
I, I hit them all really well the day before, you know, so I knew when I was putting down
the ball and where I was lining up.
So I'd come just to the edge of the 18.
I would line up with the, the, the post on our, my right hand side.
Um, then I'll just focus on the ball.
I wasn't looking at the goalkeeper at all.
Just focusing on the ball and just focusing on the connection.
That was all it was about.
And so can you remember when you say that to, to Graham Arnold, the assistant coach,
take me number five, is there any glance around from there?
It's probably a bit of relief from some of the other players.
I mean, not many want to do that, do they?
Well, I don't look number five.
It might mean you're not going to take a penalty, but I just had that feel that was
going to be the penalty that would, you know, and it wasn't a person.
It wasn't just, I wanted to be the hero.
You know, it's like, I just felt that was the right thing.
You know, that, that was the right, you know, yeah.
And, um, because, you know, then Harry Kuehl was different.
He thought number one was his spot because that was to get off to a good start, you know,
and, uh, because he felt that he was going to score.
So if we got off to a good start, normally you go win the penalty shootout.
But I remember it like, a lot of us didn't know who was taking penalties and a lot of
players didn't want to take a penalty because they were tired, you know, the flight from
Uruguay, 120 minutes, um, a lot of them were fatigued, you know, so it was, it was one
of those moments that I think only five of us said that they'll take a penalty.
Can I, is that commonplace that, is that the way it works normally, John, in a penalty
It's, it's put your hand up or does the coach sort of go, Hey, you know what?
You're our striker, John, you're taking one, Harry Kuehl, you're taking one.
A lot of different coaches.
A lot of different coaches have different approaches to it that, um, you know, I've
had coaches before that will, you know, have on the sheet, which ones they want to take
Um, but then you have to see, you know, how a game's going, how a player's feeling, you
know, if he's confident, if he's feeling, and I think it's a good thing to ask the player,
you know, do you feel up to taking a penalty?
And, and normally the player, you can see in their, their response, whether it's, yep,
no problem, put me in, or yeah, yeah, okay.
So you, you sort of know that, you know, because I've been,
on the other side, coaching in a penalty shootout, so you sort of have a, a bit of
a sense who the stronger penalty takers, um, but it was, it, we were at the halfway line
and, you know, we had our arms around each other and, and I turned to, to Lucas and I
said, are you taking a penalty?
He goes, yeah, yeah, I'm taking a penalty.
And he said, are you?
And I said, yeah, I'm number five.
And, and then I said, oh, you know, hero or villain.
And, uh, and just had a bit of a chuckle and he was looking at me and he was chuckling
We're trying to remain calm in a tense, you know, situation.
Great celebration too, mate.
It just, it makes you smile.
I mean, you're, you're pretty conservative.
I would describe you as Johnny.
Like you, you, you don't, uh, but that was just unbridled joy, wasn't it?
I mean, you couldn't, you couldn't have manufactured that if you tried.
No, that's years of, uh, you know, of wanting and hoping and praying you're going to go
to the biggest tournament in the world.
And, uh, and all the relief, not only with, uh, you know, on, with me or with the group
of players that were playing with, with the whole Australian football community, because
it's been, it was 32.
So we hadn't qualified for a world cup and I'd watched the heartache and I'd been involved
in the heartache.
So there was all that emotion coming out.
Um, it's hard not to get emotional when there's, you know, 80 plus thousand people there screaming,
um, knowing what it means to everyone.
And, um, and look, the, the taking off the top wasn't planned, but the running in where
I stopped was that because I asked the day before our team manager, Gary Moretti, who's
another Adelaide boy, um, where our family's sitting.
And, uh, and he said, oh, they're sitting.
They're sitting over there.
And I said, oh, I just want to know where I have to run to when I score the winning
Did you say that?
You know, sometimes you, you, you look back and go, gee, you're full of yourself, but
it's, it's one of those things that you, you're doing it because you're again, getting yourself
to believe that it's going to happen.
Um, and it's not being big headed.
I didn't want, um.
You're the opposite of that, mate.
You don't even have to.
I mean, the humility comes out in everything you do, but I'm fascinated, John.
For me, this is your superpower.
And, and that's why I started with that story from year four.
Because I've spoken about it a lot.
Does that come up in other areas of your life?
I think people listening to this podcast will say at the moment you're coaching West
United, I know you've got great ambitions with your managing and, and senior coaching.
Do you apply that in other areas of your life now where you're really talking to yourself
and manifesting what you want your life to be?
And, and look with this, you know, you, you, you're manifesting, you're manifesting, but
you also have a lot of setbacks during it.
You know, there's a, it doesn't just happen all the time.
You know, there's, there's a lot of.
You know, a lot of people see this moment and go, oh, you know, you're lucky to be in
Yes, I was lucky, but you know, there was a lot of setbacks before that.
There was a lot of heartache before it.
There's a lot of injuries.
There was a lot of, uh, you know, times that I was, uh, you know, not playing or on the
bench and not getting that opportunity.
So, you know, that can get you down, but always in the back of my head is that, you know,
my old man, don't give up.
Just keep going for it.
Keep going for what you believe you're going to achieve and what you want to achieve out
And so it's the same in coaching.
I've had, you know, a lot of, uh, situations that, you know, hasn't gone my way or, you
know, you can class it as failure, but I don't see it as failure.
I see it as a step, you know, in the right direction.
You know, even if we're not getting the results, you learn from it, the experiences, but I
do apply it still today.
I applied it a lot when I, um, had heart surgery two years ago, because that was probably the
scariest thing that I've ever had to do.
And, and, and when I sat there and, um, no one that had.
They have open heart surgery was like, well, how do I get through this?
Because, you know, a lot of negative thoughts are coming into your head and, and it was,
you know, so I wrote down on a, uh, a piece of paper that, um, you know, what I wanted
to come out of it, like how I wanted to come out of it.
So, you know, I was, I was thanking the surgeon, you know, Bruce garlic, Dr.
So, you know, I wrote down a piece of paper, you know, I'd like to thank that Dr.
Bruce garlic for, you know, successful surgery of my mitral valve.
And then, you know, I'd like to thank this.
This and, you know, and, and so I wrote about five different things down then, and I read
it, read it, you know, constantly the, during the day, I just kept on reading it, reading
Um, so I was trying to manifest that it was, I was already fit, you know, from it, but
I was going into surgery, you know, within a week, um, because I was just trying to calm
my nerves down because it was, it was a nervous time.
Just shows how powerful, isn't it?
Your mind is and how that can, as we know, and all the studies tell you that it affects
your nervous system and your physiology.
And how you physically respond, isn't it?
And, and, uh, that great school that you've got for those that don't quite know that story.
Uh, you're a healthy guy, fit as always.
You, you couldn't be more healthy and you start, you know, feeling the shortness of
breath and you being you, John, you're, you're busy and you're coaching and normally you'd
probably just push through that, but, uh, you know, tear in the, in the heart, it's
like tearing a muscle effectively, but it's the heart and really a time bomb.
I mean, there's a big chance your heart starts getting inflamed.
I mean, without getting that checkup, it could have been all over for you.
It was very serious, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was very serious.
So I was leaking 50% of the blood through that mitral valve.
Um, and, and, and my heart had expanded because I didn't know that I had, uh, had a tear in
Um, I was getting shortness of breath, but I just thought, you know, I'm training hard.
I'm a little bit unfit at the moment.
Um, but then I, I started to feel my heart just pounding at times when I was sitting
And so I was like, well, that's not quite normal.
And, um, and Angela said, just go get a checkup.
You know, what's the harm in getting a checkup?
The alpha male doesn't really like to go to the doctor and get a checkup too often.
So, you know, she pushed me and then I said, okay, I'll go get a checkup.
And, and, um, you know, as soon as I did that, they sent me straight to the cardiologist.
And when they had the scan, they said, you know, you need to go into surgery next week.
And so, you know, it was, it was pretty serious.
They, they said that they asked me all these questions.
Have you had a heart attack?
I said, I don't know if I had a heart attack.
And, uh, I don't feel too bad.
I didn't feel bad.
I didn't feel that bad.
But, uh, they said it's, it's serious, you know, that you, you could have been working
out and just dropped.
So, you know, luckily that, uh, they found it in time.
And then once again, your, your positive mindset, uh, in the healing process.
And I was caught up with you recently, John, you were talking about, as always, you know,
your father with, with the three daughters and your, you know, your beautiful wife, Angela.
But it was when you rang your dad, Rocky, that, you know, the emotions really just over,
You tell us that story.
Yeah, that was, uh, so I went to the cardiologist then by myself.
Uh, Angela knew that, uh, I was going, but, uh, I said, don't worry about coming or, you
know, it's, it's not a major issue.
And then, you know, uh, once I walked out of there, I was going, well, shit, how do
I explain to her what, uh, what's going to happen?
So I ring her up and, and she's crying, but I'm, I'm feeling strong, you know, don't worry.
This will happen.
We'll do our research.
We'll, we'll ring people that we know and, you know, made of ours, Tim Sligar, um, who
knows a lot of surgeons here in Melbourne, um, you know, through, uh, years of experience,
uh, you know, rang him and, and found out, you know, just find out I've got this issue.
Is this the best procedure?
So you, you start to do all your research and then make sure you're doing, you know,
all the right things.
Then, um, I go to pick up, well, first of all, then I ring my mom.
My mom's crying, but I'm still strong and I'm, I'm going to pick up the girls and I'm
thinking, okay, I'll, I'll ring my dad before I pick up the girls.
And, um, you know, I just let my guard down and just burst into tears and, and, and that's
when he was strong for me.
And, um, then I realized after he was a mess, you know, when he wasn't speaking to me.
So then when I picked up the girls, uh, again, you know, it was back into the father mode.
Don't worry girls, it's not major.
It's just, you know, I have to go in and have this surgery and, and your dad will be fine.
And, and so they, they felt, you know, uh, comfort in that, that I was feeling positive
about it until, you know, they saw me after surgery.
They, we didn't realize it was this, you know, and, you know, my girl was 16.
17 at the time, you know, but they, they just felt that I was confident and positive
about the whole situation.
So they felt at ease.
Speaking of the girl, I love asking this question, uh, Johnny, on, on this, uh, empowering leaders
podcast, people like you I've known from a young age and other people around who've had
successful and busy lives and, and, and balancing that with family life and your values are
so strong and, you know, incredible relationship that you've got with Angela, but you have
moved all around the world from a young age and you've taken the kids in and out of different
schools at various times.
How challenging has that been to get that right?
Yeah, it's been, uh, challenging, but it's also been great because you've been able to
spend quality time.
Look, when you're coaching, it's, it's hard to spend real quality time all the time with
your kids because, you know, it's, it's a virtually 24 seven job.
Um, and, and then I noticed that at the start, you know, when I was playing, it was a little
bit different because you, you're recovering from training or whatever.
So you still go home and spend, you know, good time with the girls.
But when you're away from your immediate family, you know, a lot of times, you know, you're
out of your values that you're, you know, uh, you have within your family circle that
the, you know, a lot of other people aren't interfering because, you know, you're able
to sort of control the environment a lot more.
Um, and we become closer from that, you know, because, you know, we're not just, uh, leaving
the kids at my, my parents for, you know, the weekend or not leaving it with my, my
brothers or sisters or whatever it is.
So, you know, that, that, that side of it's been good at times.
It was really tough on Angela because, you know, she's having to travel with three kids,
by herself all the way back to Australia, you know, the, the ages of four, three and
six months, you know, that, that, that, that side in itself is tough.
Um, but you know, if, if you want to be successful in anything, you need a supportive partner
or, you know, or you, you have to be, you know, understanding of each other's, uh, situation.
So, uh, it's been tough, but it's been, you know, I think good because, you know, the
girls are able to see close up, you know, the highs and lows of, of sport and then that
also, you know, is, is, uh, you know, the highs and lows of life, really, you know,
you're going to have your ups and downs in life.
And experience great cultures and lived in Spain and live around the world and, uh, you
know, amazing, uh, you know, girls that, that, that they are.
Um, you're now a manager, you have been, you had successful stints with Melbourne Heart
and, and Brisbane Raw who took to the finals regularly and now Western United is your current
So you're managing lots of people, you're leading lots of people.
How would you describe, what sort of leader are you at the moment, Johnny?
You look, you're always evolving and you're always learning from your experiences.
I think that the biggest thing that I like to, you know, have with the playing group
and the people around is having a connection with them.
And we all want the same thing.
We, we want to be successful, yes, but, you know, to be successful, you're looking at
improving every day.
And, and that's what, you know, the, the, the thing that I say to the players the most
is that, you know, as individuals, we're looking to improve and as a collective, we're looking
And, and so you, you, and I have my key values, uh, that, you know, and those behavior guidelines
that, you know, the players, you know, the, they need a little bit of, uh, you know, a
guideline or else, you know, once they, if they, if they step over the mark, then they
need someone to pull them back in and, and they don't mind that, I, I believe.
So, um, and, and they drive that a lot themselves, you know, I, I'm not a big, uh, fan of, you
know, fines or, you know, if someone turns up late, you fine them or whatever else, but
the playing group came to me, the, you know, the leaders and said, look, we'd like, within
your behavior guidelines, we'd like to create a fine system.
I said, no problem.
Do you guys, you know, run that?
Um, and then if, uh, if the player does consistently get fined and whatever, I said, just send
them to me to explain why they're not doing the right thing.
Because, uh, if you lose the trust of the group, then, you know, the, the players, uh,
don't trust them when they're on the pitch.
And, uh, so I'm a big believer in that.
So the discipline off the pitch, you know, is the same as the discipline on.
The pitch, you know, you're playing to a structure.
So I'm the believer in structure on and off the pitch.
And then that's really important within a group of, uh, of men really.
And managing the different personalities, different age groups.
You're dealing with, uh, a whole range of, uh, of, of ages now that you millennials and,
you know, who, you know, quite different to us, John, I mean, you were such dedicated,
naturally talented, but your work ethic was really strong from a young age.
How do you go coaching and leading someone that it didn't come?
Maybe as easy as it did to, you're not saying that it came easy to you, but are they a harder
bracket for you to coach in this generation or, um, they're all different, you know, someone
told me that at the start, you know, I've treated them all the same.
That's, that's not true.
You, you know, it's even like your kids, you can't treat them all the same.
They're all different human beings.
So it's the same with a playing group.
You know, you have players that work and work hard and, uh, and you know, they're the, they're
the players that are easier to coach because you know, that as soon as you put on a session,
they're going to work at a level.
The ones that are more talented, um, that, uh, you know, sometimes you need to, you know,
try and get the best out of them.
You know, you might have to put a rule in training that, uh, you know, so it's a competitive
sort of training session.
And so, you know, you try and do that, that all together that, you know, well, I know
this guy's going to work, but this guy needs, you know, he needs to make it a game situation
for him to actually work to that level.
And, uh, and so, you know, without pushing him, you know, you can sort of,
create certain rules within your training.
Um, and then, you know, there's certain players that you, you connect with on a personal level
and there's other players that you might not, but you've got other staff members that will.
Um, and, and I think it's important that, you know, you have that connection within
the whole group, but it might not be necessarily that the head coach or the manager that's
always, you know, uh, got that closeness to a certain individual.
Um, and you know, we've got, we've got the, uh, the interesting part that we've got like
a lot of players.
Foreign players, you know, so we've got, you know, five foreigners in our team, Japanese,
uh, Slovenian, uh, Serbian, Swiss, Serbian, uh, Swiss guy, and then also an Italian.
But then within that, you've got different backgrounds from the Australian, you know,
so you've got the Croatian, you got Serbian, you got Macedonian, you got a Greek, you got
So, you know, all these cultures together, it's quite difficult to find, you know, how
do you actually, you know, relate to all of them?
Um, so I think the biggest thing is that, that respect, uh, factor, if you can, you
know, drive that every day, then players will, you know, follow, I believe.
It is the United Nations, isn't it?
When you think of your role and, and as you said, cultural, uh, differences and then trying
to, uh, to, uh, to get everyone to sort of, um, you know, get on the same page.
But I think what comes out always with you, John, is your values are so strong and the
respect is so strong.
John, we've been identifying with, uh, this group of leaders through the work I'm doing
with my, my great friend, Matt.
What a wits at, at a leader, these similar characteristics we think that make great
And so I've been asking a range of leaders, which I've really been enjoying and seeing
where the common traits sit.
So I'm going to fire a few questions at you, dimensions of what we think a great leadership
and starting with self-leadership.
When I pose that to you, what does self-leadership mean?
Uh, I think self-leadership is that if you've got certain values that you're, you're driving
that every day, then, and that means that, so if I'm saying that, uh, you know, I want
everyone to turn up on time.
It's a simple thing.
I, I have to turn up on time.
I, I can't be turning up late or if, you know, if I'm saying to the, you know, the, the players
to prepare properly for a, a training session, I have to make sure that I'm prepared for
a training session, you know?
So all those little things that the, you know, I, I think that's self-leadership.
I think that's, you know, showing that, um, you know, by example that, um, I find that
easier anyway, but, uh, I think that, that there, then the players see it and they follow
Not only players.
You're coaching staff.
So if they see that I'm at work, uh, early and I'm, I'm leaving late, I'm not saying
that, you know, you don't work at home or whatever, but they go, well, they don't leave.
They, they stay and they do work.
And, you know, so I believe that's what self-leadership is really.
Setting the example and, uh, and it makes sense to them.
I always found that in, in, in sport or in life is that once you actually start speaking
up as a player, you then got to own those values, don't you?
And I found a lot of players are reluctant to do that because it exposed them then have
to be accountable.
For their behaviors.
And I'm not surprised that that comes out really strongly in you.
We think about leaders in this next generation, John, really thinking about how they positively
impact others in their environment.
How do you go about positively impacting others?
Um, no, that's a good question.
I think that, uh, look, you can show, you know, uh, the positive look, I like to, to
be positive most of the time anyway, with, with the playing group.
So you, you, you're trying to reinforce what you're.
Playing structure is, so you're trying to show them the positive moments because very
easy to pick up negatives, but, uh, you know, the, the player then starts to get a little
bit, you know, the, seeing a negative, uh, moment in, in training or in a game or, or
whatever, and they, they start to self doubt themselves.
So if you had a percentage on, on that, are you trying to be, you know, 70% positive highlights,
30% areas to improve, or is it not as structured as that?
Oh, it's not as structured as that.
It's just that, uh, it, it, it more or less that, um, you know, sometimes you will show,
uh, a negative, but that's only because the player, um, hasn't, if a player miscontrols
a ball, I don't care, you know, if he, if he misses a chance, but he's trying to do
the right things, I don't care.
But if a player stops trying, that's, that's a negative that I'll show because, you know,
that, that I, I don't like, and I, and the group for us to be successful, we, we, you
know, you make a mistake, doesn't matter, you know, so let, let, let's, you know, fight
even harder for the next ball.
Or, or don't shy away from it.
And, and, you know, it's all about being brave.
And, and, and, and I talk a lot about being brave, being brave in the way that we're playing
with and without the ball.
Um, so, you know, a lot of that is, you know, the, the positive nature.
So, you know, sometimes when you lose, you, you, you have to show what we did well.
Um, and when we lose, uh, when we win sometimes is what we could improve on.
And so it's always about the improvement.
I, I feel, you know, we're always improving and that, that's the positive reinforcement
that I'm talking about.
We're trying to give the players results will come and, and, you know, but we're improving
as a group and as individuals.
I remember, you know, it felt like when, uh, the era that I played in, you'd win a game
by a point and that it'd be fine.
No problems, celebration, really having made so many mistakes and you, you wouldn't really
think about that.
It's still like that to us.
And, and, and I think that you have to be calm as, as a leader.
I think you have to be calm in all situations.
You enjoy your victories because, you know, you have to.
Enjoy it, but also be calm in, in your losses and, and know where, you know, that you have
to improve and, and why you had that loss.
And, you know, I, I got told, you know, pretty early on in my career, especially the coaching
careers that, you know, everyone turns to the, the, the manager or the head coach, you
know, when things aren't going so well.
So you have to like walk in with a, a, a sort of presence and saying, don't worry, you know,
we've got this, you know, and, and then the players feed off of that.
Come in there and you're down and you're lost and, you know, sometimes you are a little
bit, you know, a little bit, oh, I don't know why this went wrong, but you can't show that
You can talk about it and with your coaching staff, but with the players say, all right,
come in, this is what we were working on.
And I think that the players, you know, do go off of that a lot.
So creating and sharing a vision is a, is a common thread we're seeing with, you know,
there's this group of leaders we're talking to regularly.
How do you go about creating and sharing your vision?
And I think that's pretty, pretty simple that, you know, everyone wants to win and
that, that has to be your goal, you know, that, uh, you know, it's, it's creating an
environment that, uh, will allow you to win.
And then, and I think that's important.
You know, that was the biggest thing setting foot into the Western United that we had,
uh, last season at the end of the last season, they had lost, uh, eight games in a row.
And, um, then, you know, you can say, all right, it's, uh, you know, that's just football.
Well, no, because there was a lot of things that culturally,
it was going wrong.
So you're trying to create this culture that people are all on the same, you know, same
You're going to get some players that don't totally buy into it straight away, but you
have to try and show why it will help and how it will help and keep on reinforcing that,
uh, that culture.
And then, you know, the, the, the actual playing style is something that, you know, again,
you know, you have to, you're, you're virtually a salesman, you know, because you're, you're
trying to get them to believe in this playing style that will get you success.
And bring you success and will, um, allow the players to really, uh, get to another
And, um, and so that's every day in training and, and everything that you do in training
and, and the way that you, you conduct yourself and the way that, you know, you're, you're
driving the group.
Um, and so, you know, the results, you know, everyone wants to win and that's our, our
final goal, but it's, it's the process of it.
You mentioned, you know, being a salesman and I, and you're right at one level, but
players are so smart, aren't they?
If you don't see authenticity and you don't trust that as well, then it falls apart very
So here, I'm selling you this vision, but I'm also living it, breathing it.
And my values, as you said, are aligned to that all the time.
And you haven't got a lot of wiggle room.
Maybe the players will pick you very quickly or in, you know, people listening to this
in their own business, you know, if you haven't got the authenticity and you don't follow
through, you get found out, don't you?
And what I mean by salesman is that because I believe in it.
I'm passionate about this is the way that I believe that we're going to win
and the way that we will get there in the end.
And so if you're just saying it because you just feel it's the right thing to say,
of course the players are going to, anyone will pick up on that.
But if you're living it, breathing it every single day
and that's something that you believe in,
the playing style that I believe in is not only because I like it,
it's because I believe that's the way to success.
And everyone has their different ways.
I'm not saying that there's any right or wrong way of playing.
But yeah, it's something that I believe in and the players know it
because they see the passion come out.
Not only myself, but the coaching staff as well.
Yeah, and if you're listening to this, they'll see your history.
You've been able to manifest what you believe in and make it come.
As you said, with upsets.
So I'm not surprised that you've got a strong path to follow
and on your way to making it happen.
We're seeing curiosity, Johnny, as a trait of a lot of great leaders.
I'm very curious about how to improve
and then using that through their own improvement and learning and development.
What do you think of when I talk about learning through curiosity?
I think about what's happening around the world,
not only in your own sport, which I always try,
and see the top managers and what they're doing.
You watch a lot of the docos.
You read a lot of that stuff.
You're trying to always improve, gain an edge, you can say.
But it's also like, what's the new trend?
In our game, there's always different trends that are happening
and what's successful in those trends.
And can you implement it in your playing philosophy and coaching style?
And then they're curious what other sports are doing.
What other leaders are doing, how they're doing it, how they communicate.
I've picked up a lot from visiting different coaches.
I've sat down with Neil Craig years back now,
going to visit different AFL coaches
because I just wanted to see how they would communicate with a playing group.
It's a bit different, but I've picked up quite a bit
that I actually have implemented now in my coaching style.
So there's things.
There's things that you're always curious about what are others doing
because you don't want to copy them,
but you want to see if that can actually come into the way
that you're believing coaching should be.
You mentioned communicating.
We see communicating with clarity is a real dimension of leadership.
How do you go about communicating with clarity?
Not confusing players as well.
That's a big thing.
I got that a lot from – so when I first started coaching,
it was like I knew all this stuff.
Sometimes I'd look back and I'd go,
did I confuse them because I gave them too many instructions?
So like I said about behavior guidelines, it's simple.
It's not too difficult to understand, and so the players understand that.
The same with the tactical guidelines.
Make it as simple as possible so the players know their role.
They know in a defensive moment what they should be doing,
and of course you have to practice it, but they sort of understand.
I have clear – for a defensive moment, I'll have a clear word that someone can scream out
so the players go, okay, I know what that means.
In an attacking sense, they know their movements.
They know their patterns.
So I try and make it very clear and concise.
It's even when I'm speaking to them.
It's just don't go on and speak for 20 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever
because players switch off.
Get them engaged.
Listen to what you're talking about, and I got that from television.
I got that from doing a bit of media because people don't want to just hear someone
They want to hear what's the message.
What are you trying to get at?
And so I took that into coaching as well.
Yeah, expressing yourself in a succinct way.
You're only 45 years of age, and there's this sort of – in some sport,
it's this age thing for coaches.
Naturally, you're going to get better as you learn,
and particularly it's what we're passionate about.
Leaders are like, you're always refining, always reflecting,
always getting better.
You've got your principles and your values.
That's always who you're going to be, but you're learning constantly.
It's great to hear that coming out in the way you approach it.
Collaboration we see now as being a real trait.
Great leaders are collaborating more than they ever did before in the past.
There was a lot of hierarchy in leadership, whether it was in business and sport,
and you would have seen – how do you approach collaboration?
Yeah, I think it's important because that way there you're –
someone might have dealt with a situation.
It's a situation that you're dealing with now, a few years ago.
That's collaborating with other leaders that have been in those situations.
I've got – Ange has helped me a lot.
He's been a mentor, Ange Postacoglou, because he's been around for a long period.
He's had his ups and downs as well in coaching.
Just chatting away with him sometimes is just helpful.
Like I said before about sitting down with different coaches from different sports,
the way that they might deal with media, the way that they might deal with the hierarchy of a club.
That's important because you don't have all the answers.
It's impossible for – even though you're a leader of an organization or a playing group
or a coaching staff, you can't possibly have all the answers every day.
So having the others that you can lean on is a big help.
Tony, I've been asking these two final questions.
Of the leaders, I've had the great privilege to sit down,
and it's always great to spend time with you.
I'm going to fire the first one.
Who's been the greatest leader in your life?
I have to say my dad because just the way that he's gone about bringing up a family,
first of all, and also running a business for so long and also finding time to coach in soccer.
He probably regrets that he got us down that path because he said,
I would have loved to have lived in Adelaide, back in Adelaide,
but you left home at 16, you haven't come back.
So it's nearly 30 years now.
So I would say my dad has been probably the best leader in terms of who I learned most off of
and I'm still learning today.
So you pick up the phone and ring Rocky, there's something going on in your life.
And look, sometimes – because he can be pretty negative.
Have you had that conversation as you've got older?
Have you said – because I remember talking to you as we would catch up along the journey
and if you're back in town playing for Australia and grab a coffee with you
and you could have had an unbelievable year in the Premier League in the UK,
but Rocky was on to you about a certain part of your game.
And have you sort of said to him occasionally?
I always say to him – and look, he's negative.
By nature, I think he's negative.
Does he laugh about that?
But then he'll just like let it go.
But sometimes it's not bad because you need sometimes a few home truths.
So he might say something that you go back and you go, you know what, I think he's right.
I think he's right.
So I need to have a good look at that.
Or dad, like settle down.
That's a one-off.
It's not a constant.
So you're negative because of just the result or something like that.
But if it's something that you look at and you go,
no, that's happening on a regular basis, I think he's right there.
But he was ruthless in terms of you're right.
Like when I was playing, I remember having the best season I've had with Portsmouth.
It was in the championship in England and I was scoring game after game.
And he came to visit me and he goes, you've gone backwards.
I was like, what do you mean?
He goes, your touch is not as good as what it used to be.
You're not playing the same way.
And I go, dad, I'm scoring every week and I'm a striker.
But then I looked back and then after that, I started to work again on my basic skills
because I was going, you know what?
He's not too far off.
But it hurt at the time.
It's interesting.
I had a very similar but different relationship with my dad.
Super, super close.
He played and I was a father-son in Australian rules football.
And I'd ring him all the time.
We lost him a little over a year ago.
But it's funny, mate, because I could pick up the phone.
Two minutes or two hours, you know, depending on if there was something going on.
But I can have those conversations with him in my head.
And I could know exactly what he would say.
He was less prescriptive.
He wouldn't tell me what to do.
But he'd ask me questions and then in that way sort of find out myself.
So you're lucky in life, aren't you?
If you had a father figure like you've had and I was incredibly lucky to have,
it's a gift, isn't it, to have that throughout your life
and you can hear how close that relationship is.
Yeah, it is a gift.
Others need to look elsewhere, obviously.
They might have an uncle.
A relative or a close mate or an older mentor.
And I'm lucky that I've had my dad there.
Sometimes I don't call him after a game because I don't want to hear the negative side.
I'll leave her for a few hours and then maybe speak to him a few days later.
But it is always good to have someone that you're close to
that wants the best for you as well.
Now, final question, Johnny.
The work we're doing, we're massive on collaboration
and seeing where that's heading at a leader.
And I ask you this question.
If you could collaborate with anyone in the world, it could be on anything.
It could be a coach.
It could be outside interest from your coaching world or from professional football.
Is there anyone you've ever thought you'd like to collaborate with someone?
Question without notice for you.
Yeah, I would say that there's always coaches.
I'm more about coaches because, you know, it's…
That's your world.
Yeah, that's my world.
So there's a Spanish coach called…
And I've had the privilege to meet him a couple of times
and spend time at Barcelona when he was coaching Barcelona.
But he's the current coach of the Spanish national team.
And he's been through, you know, a lot of ups and downs in his life in general.
But his daughter passed away a few years ago from cancer.
And she was only eight years old.
And, you know, now he's back coaching the Spanish national team.
And just the way he leads the group and the way he's a leader of men
and the way he actually can adjust.
You know, in certain environments.
Because, you know, he was coaching Barcelona when they had Lionel Messi, Suarez, Neymar.
And they're a hard three to coach.
Messi is actually the person that runs that football club, you know.
And he had his moments with him because Luis Enrique, he can be a hothead at a time.
But he stepped away of being that and allowed others to control Messi in a different way.
And then you see him with the Spanish national team.
And he's got a really young group of players that they're just looking up to him.
And he's sort of always joking around with them, you know,
always being himself around them in a different sort of way.
And I just find it fascinating how he can just, you know,
move into a different environment and, you know, be a leader in a different way.
Yeah, it's a great answer, Johnny.
And to me, that art of leadership that I love is very different to the experience.
I had playing sport where it was one size fits all.
And you didn't fit into that box.
You just went up to it and you moved on.
I felt like we lost a lot of good people because of that.
So you're saying that ability to say you've got to treat Lionel Messi very differently
to, you know, a young guy coming through the Spanish national team.
And you think he does that as well as anyone you've seen?
Yeah, he does it as well as anyone I've seen.
Look, with Barcelona, it's funny because he doesn't get the recognition, but he doesn't care.
Like he walks into a press conference and he goes,
all right, you're going to ask me stupid questions, you know.
But he knows that the media, you know, very powerful,
especially in a country like Spain where football is everything.
But it doesn't bother him.
He said, if I lose one or two games, I'm going to get the sack anyway.
So I don't need the media.
So that's probably why he hasn't got the recognition of a Guadagnole
because Guadagnole, he's got the full package.
You know, he can walk into a press conference and just, you know,
control the whole, you know, environment.
He's half stand-up comedian these days, Guadagnole, isn't he?
Do you think that's part of his arsenal as well?
He can play that role really well.
And, you know, I talk about Luis Enrique because I, you know,
I met him a few times.
I've never met Guadagnole.
But I love the way he's been able to go into different countries
and still be able to go in different cultures and control,
not control in the sense that he's controlling,
but able to get success and get his teams to play a certain style
of football and win playing that way.
And then you've got on the other side, you've got someone like a Klopp.
I'm sticking with football here because that's the main thing
that I follow and love.
And Klopp is this energetic person that always seems to have a smile on his face.
But you know that he's going to get angry, but it's, you know,
that he's a lovable character.
He's walked into, you know, that Liverpool club,
high expectations but have struggled to win anything or the Premier League
in 30-odd years, and he walks in there
and he just gives everyone a look.
And to sustain that, it's been about seven years now
that he's sustained that level, and they play with intensity
and a passion, and that's him.
You can just see it, you know.
He gets the crowd going when he walks out into the field.
And just, you know, to be around and see how they are every day
would be fascinating, and, you know, I would love to be able to, you know,
get in their inner circle and see how they, you know,
they treat their players and treat the people around them.
John, we were talking to you just before we started recording today,
and I'm loving the fact that, and they're pretty popular now,
the streaming services that are getting behind the scenes
with Pep Guardiola, and you're getting to see, you know,
different elements of coaches that in the past were super private,
didn't allow the guard down.
To me, it's a gift for the next generation, isn't it?
You know, the legendary Vince Lombardi from the NFL,
and there's been 100 books written, but there's very little real evidence
of what he actually was like behind the scenes.
Are you open to that in your journey to sort of, yeah, to open the doors?
We've got a documentary crew at the moment at Worcester United
that come in, you know, on a daily basis and, you know,
have marked me up, you know, pre-match team talks and, you know,
when I'm walking around, and they're fascinated by it themselves
because we didn't realise that you'd go and have a chat with this player
and, you know, talk about something completely different to football.
You know, you're talking about, you know, how's your family going,
you know, the kids and whatever else.
Then you go over and chat with someone else.
They just don't understand that that's part of, you know,
being in an environment and, you know, you can't,
you have to connect with someone and you do.
You end up having a connection with someone through different ways.
So, yeah, I think that's great because a lot of people have got a fixation
that, you know, coaches, most coaches are dictators, which that's gone.
You know, that definitely has gone.
There still might be certain coaches that it's their way or no way,
but the majority of coaches now are pretty good in,
are able to manage.
A group of people and understand the environment that they're in.
Johnny, I always love catching up with you.
I really appreciate your time.
I'm thinking we leave that time capsule where it was.
I don't want to ruin our thoughts that we, at that young age, mate,
knew exactly what life was going to turn out like.
If you had to pick what you'd achieved and what your family looks like
and the person you are, mate, you couldn't have picked a better path
and I'm not surprised.
And I'm excited for the next chapter for you, John.
I can see that same intensity and that same passion when you hear you talk
about managing and coaching.
Coaching and leading others.
It's going to be a brilliant next chapter.
And thanks for joining me today, mate.
Always great to see you.
I really enjoyed it and it is always great to see it, but I do want to dig up the time capsule.
You want to go and see it then, mate?
Let's go back and do it then, mate.
I know where it is.
I'm behind the chapel.
I reckon I could put my foot on it.
So we'll have to go and check it out.
I wouldn't mind seeing it.
It'll be interesting.
I'd laugh if I wrote something different down.
But then, you know, you talk about it.
You talk about it.
You talk about it.
You talk about it.
You talk about it.
You talk about year four.
Year five, Mr. Sheridan, you know, at the end of the year, you know, I signed an autograph
and I don't know if he remembers this and I gave it to him and I said, keep it because
one day, you know, he'll be famous and be important.
And I'm just thinking back, what was I thinking as a kid to actually have that courage to
even hand that to a teacher?
But that means that the teachers must have had that, you know, a connection with us that
were able to do that and had the confidence and, you know.
I find coaching's like teaching, you know, that you're there to help.
You're there to teach, you know, players and not only as, you know, and help them with
their playing career, but help them with their life.
And I got to meet Peter Muddy Waters, Johnny, a couple of years ago, 35 years since you
and I were in year four.
And it was hilarious, mate, because he was saying, I didn't, we didn't understand.
It was his first year out of teacher's college.
And he had no idea what he was doing.
He had no idea what he was doing.
He said, mate, I made it all up.
But he used to play.
He played a bit of guitar.
When we'd get a bit rowdy, you know, we'd go and run a couple of laps of the oval.
We thought he was a legend.
But it's a lifelong impact, isn't it?
Leaders can have that impact.
You know, from a year four teacher, you and I have spoken about him a lot.
And it just shows, you know, you can really change the course of someone's life with that
Great to see you.
Thanks again, mate.
Empowering Leaders was presented by me, Luke Darcy, produced by Matt Dwyer, with audio
production by Darcy Thompson.
To start your leadership journey, I encourage you to go to elitercollective.com, take our
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