We had a promo going many, many bosses back at Seven, where I feel very safe to say it,
where they wanted all of their network talent in bikinis, running along the beach,
slapping each other on each other's bum.
Yep. And I was just like, no. And they were like, why not? You've been in plenty of causes
in your life. I'm like, a hundred percent. They said, you modeled for inside sport. I said,
I did as an athlete. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I said, well, put it this way. I'll do it
when you have Bruce McIverney in a pair of slugos running on the beach, hitting, I don't know,
a couple of guys on the ice. How about that? And that was the end of the conversation.
I genuinely loved this week's episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast with Jo Griggs,
a world champion swimmer as a teenager who has gone on to be one of the most respected
and loved broadcasters in Australian television history. Jo's decade-long success in the male
dominated, at times brutal world of media is a great story. She has a unique ability to call
out bad behavior with a smile. You'll hear her passion for creating great teams,
around her in everything she does, and is relentless in making sure that she's surrounded
by high quality people who share her values. We know that success leaves clues. And in this
conversation with Jo Griggs, you will get a very clear picture of why she has consistently
achieved. She has a legendary work ethic. She is a fanatical researcher ahead of Olympic games
and major events, and is truly one of the happiest, most engaging and fun people you'll ever meet.
These people like Jo Griggs will inspire the work we do at Alita.
You can book a discovery call today. Big thanks as always to Jason Nicholas and his team from
Temper Bedding. Temper is NASA approved and the world's best in bedding. Inspiring people like
Jo Griggs all understand the value of bedding.
To live the happy and successful lives they do. So investing in a temper bed is a decision that
will change your life. Griggs is one of the most loved and respected figures in Australian
television history. She was the first Australian woman to solely host an Olympic games at the 2002
Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, and has been a mainstay of Channel 7's Olympic and Paralympic
coverage for more than two decades. Her long and successful career includes hosting the Australian
Open Tennis Sports World. And for the past 20 years as the host of the incredibly successful
gardens. As a 16 year old, Joanna Griggs won a Commonwealth Games bronze medal in the hundred
metre backstroke before her career was cut short with chronic fatigue. Before a comeback then saw
her record the fastest time in the world in the 50 metre backstroke, ultimately retiring from
competitive swimming. The next day, Griggs, it's always great to see you. Thanks for joining me.
It's lovely to see your smiling face again.
Well, you've got this incredibly infectious personality. Every time I've had the pleasure
of being around you, it's like there's a happy journey. Were you born with that or is that
something that's always been a part of your life?
Yeah, it's always been a part of my life.
For my family, they would say it's always been, but we laugh like this morning, my husband and I,
we wake up between four and five every morning and he takes a while to wake up. He just,
he just, a half an hour after we got up this morning, by that stage, I'd gone out,
I'd packed up the car, I'd done a thousand. He looked at me, he goes, I don't, he goes,
do you ever just wake up and just go, I'm going to take it really slowly today. I don't think
it's part of my makeup. There's no, no other gear is there for you. It's on or that's it?
It's on. Yeah, I can, I can definitely, I'm really good at, at mindfulness. I'm really
good at looking after myself and winding down and really very importantly, getting great sleep
and solid sleep. But when I'm awake, there's just so much to jam packing and, and I'm lucky. I love
my job and I love who I work with. And, you know, if you're doing live, I think the first day that
we were doing rehearsals, I think you realize I get, I'm so energetic that sometimes makeup
artists will say to me, they just have to step back a little bit because you're the energy that's
coming out of me so much more. So I know I can be a bit much. You're like your own life force. And
as I said, I'm a makeup artist. I'm a makeup artist. I'm a makeup artist. I'm a makeup artist.
As you said, it's infectious. It's just a brilliant thing to be around you. I want to go
back to you as a, as a swimmer, as a 16 year old. To win a Commonwealth Games medal at that age is
an incredible achievement, but it gets cut short. Was that difficult for you when that part of your
life ended? Yeah. I mean, I, I, the next year I got a silver medal at the world champs and the
relay. And then it was after that, that I actually went on a holiday. And I think I've had a lot of
time to reflect on that. It's a long time since I hung up my speedos, but yeah, I think what it was,
I didn't, I wasn't a swimmer that,
damn crazy kilometers their whole life. Like I started quite late in swimming and it was by
chance I went to a swim meet with a, another swimming family and just loved it, loved the
vibe and cleaned up at the meet and was spotted by talent scouts. And so all of a sudden, you know,
mum held off for probably a year or two, but then I literally went from two sessions a week to six
to 10 hours of training every single day past Sundays. We do a massive session on, on a Saturday,
but I think that physically took its toll.
And also we're of the era where if we so much as sneeze, because, you know, back then,
like, it's funny, like it, I feel like I'm a hundred years old of this era, but yeah,
we were of the era back then that Australian swimming felt like to be part of the world,
we had to go over there and prove ourselves, which is ironic now because everyone comes to
Australia. They come for our coaches. They come to be near our amazing athletes. And we had those
amazing, amazing athletes then, but the amount of travel that we used to do was just brutal.
Like I can remember, you know, you'd get first of all, a letter,
and that's how you found out you're on trips. You know, I remember coming back from a trip and
having like two days at school and sitting on the toilet, opening the mail and seeing that I had to
pack my bags and be gone again by the end of the week, because yeah, that was, it was always about
being overseas. So I think really it was just wear and tear on, you know, physically, mentally,
and my body shut down. So, you know, it told me in the most emphatic way possible that,
that it was not going to do anything else. And I was really, really unwell. And it took two and a
everything from changing complete diet. So I had two and a half years of a wheat-free,
yeast-free, egg-free, malt-free, sugar-free, dairy-free, herb-free, spice-free, caffeine-free
diet. I was, I had to have a lot of iron. So I, everywhere I went, I had to have, you know,
liver and just, I'm still not a massive fan of them, foods. But we, we went from the hours that
I would train a day to doing what I call complimentary medicine. And so, and you were
trying anything and everything. So I think the hardest part was one, understanding physical
limitations. I'd never had that before.
Never experienced that before. Two, understanding, and I think it's actually helped me in very good
stead for the rest of my life. But when people don't understand something and there's not a
quick fix, if they don't know what to say, they just stay away. So, you know, I, I was one of the
few that was making a great income from, from swimming. I lost all my sponsors within about
four months because at first they were all, yep, we're here for you. And then when it didn't look
like it was going to be a quick fix, they just dried up instantly. And then I learned human
nature is that people are the same. Not that they, not that they're the same, but they're the same.
They don't care about you. They just don't know what to say to you. So, you know, that whole year
after this initial first flush of just endless visitors through, no one came. I had like five
friends that came over that next 12 months. And so the challenging part for me was, was having to
spend so much time, I mean, obviously with my family, but by yourself and, and asking yourself,
are you being really honest with yourself and, and are you doing everything that you can to
recover? So I think that at that age, cause I was 17 when I fell sick,
I think from 17 to 19 and a half, you're usually bulletproof. And I had the exact opposite. I had
everything taken away. It wasn't in my control. The only thing that I could control was just to
try my absolute best. And sometimes whatever I would try on that day would put me back two steps.
So it was just a really intense period of learning, but it's also the period that I'm
most grateful for in my life because I think most athletes struggle in life after sport because
they only identify themselves as,
you know, whether it be one sport or how they see themselves in one way. I didn't have that
option. I had it all taken away. So I had to be really honest and really comfortable in my own
skin. And as an 18 year old having to, you know, the wheat-free, gluten-free, caffeine-free, that's
a lot for a young girl to deal with. Plus not being around the people that are your community.
And as you said, people, they're not mean, but people do drop off.
They just don't, they don't know what to say. And I really did work that out. And I saw it years
later when one of my best friends had brain cancer and she eventually,
but when she was really, really ill, it was quite extraordinary. You know, she was,
she was in a wheelchair. She absolutely had all her mental capacity and capabilities,
but people just avoided looking her in the eye or they thought she was mentally incapacitated or
they just didn't want to actually look at her because in case they had to have a conversation
with her. So it was fascinating watching that up close again, thinking, oh, we haven't really,
nothing's really, we haven't really learned from this or people around me haven't learned from this
that they, it's so easy just to look at her and say, oh, she's got a lot of pain. And I think
there's lots, like even the diet, like, I'm so glad I went through that then because these days
there's so many food intolerances that people have. Like I'm the person to cook for anyone
with a food intolerance. It doesn't matter what they throw at me. I will make an amazing menu
that they will just not even realize they're missing out on anything. And my husband's had
different periods of time with his health where he's had to go off certain foods. And it's just,
to me, it's a piece of cake because I'm like, oh, what meat, sugar, dairy. Are you serious?
Well, I'm not surprised because you're having,
had the pleasure of spending some time with you and your great passion for the Paralympics I want
to talk about, but also you've been on the board of Beyond Blue for a long period of time. There
is nothing awkward about you at all. And I think you're right. A lot of us, and I've been in a
situation where you don't know what to say and you don't want to put your foot in it.
And that's what most people are afraid of. You nailed it then. They're afraid they're
going to say something that's either going to upset the person or make themselves feel silly.
Yeah. And I had this great chat with your great friend, Kurt Friendly recently,
and he was saying, well, that's not an excuse. You have to then-
Give of yourself to go and sit down, have that conversation. You've got to get past that. It's
not good enough to accept that. And I can see why you're the person for that because I can't imagine
a situation where you're not going to be able to approach someone no matter what the situation.
Oh, look, sometimes you approach people and they don't want to speak to you and you just
have to respect that as well. But it's also learning that that's okay. I mean, I think
you're being a little bit kind because you know how unco I am. In everyday life, just the most
basic things kind of.
I imagine I'm going to walk straight through a door and then walk full on into a wall. So I have
all these moments. I make a fool of myself regularly and I just try not to do it at anyone
Well, you've transitioned into television with great success and TV's a high ego business that
I think there's any other way to say it. But being around you, the makeup staff love being around
you, the floor managers, the production staff, everyone involved on set has a great time because
of you showing up the way you are. And it's a great thing that you do. Have you done that
consciously or is it just you being you?
No, I think it comes very naturally, but it also is a very conscious effort. The thing I've noticed
over the last 32, 33 years in TV is they want to dehumanize it. They want to take away people
knowing about each other. They love hot desks where you can't have any personal items left on
it or they really want to make it so that it's quite impersonal. The best way to get the best
Is to have it so that everyone feels part of something and that hopefully they're all
enjoying. I know when I turn up to any job that I do for Better Homes and Gardens, that the first
contact they've had with one of my researchers in the office or whether it be one of our production
team is doing the organization, they are such good people and they're so kind and considerate
and they've thought about everything. So that's their first interaction. Then they get out onto
the set and they might be a little bit nervous about having a TV crew there or maybe meeting me.
Everyone, the makeup artists, the sound, the music, the music, the music, the music, the music, the
sound, the cameraman, everyone has their product, their producer, everyone. Our goal is to make
everyone have a fantastic experience. And I think, I think I learned it from people like Bruce
McEvaney. I had a couple of really great mentors early on and I had a couple of really horrendous
people that were in charge and still have right the whole way through my career. And I think you
get the best out of people when you're having fun and when they're having fun. And then it doesn't
actually feel like a chore. Even if you're doing crazy long hours, it doesn't feel like a chore.
Yeah. And it's a brilliant thing because,
it applies to every environment that anyone's in. And you do get a choice around how you turn up and
your smile and it's authentic. And you can also, you don't take any shit. You're prepared if
there's something out of line to call it out, but it's done with these really strong relationships
all the way through. And I think there's a, to me, Griggs, I look at people aren't as successful
as you are by mistake. There's always a story behind it. And watching you up close in the
Tokyo Olympics, the amount of preparation you had done blew me away. Literally, I remember looking
at the folders and folders that you had thinking, this is unbelievable. Again, is that just you
being you or is that a learnt skill? That's from being an athlete. And in those very short moments,
we have a chance to share their story. And for some sports, they're going to get a lot more
airtime than others. But for some of those more smaller sports or unique sports that don't get
the coverage, they might not get the coverage. And I think that's a really good thing.
They might get a mention once in a blue moon. They might have the most amazing backstory. And
if you get a chance to tell it, you want to do it justice. And I always remember the first
Paralympics that I did. I remember every time Todd would come inside, he'd be out in the tractor for
hours. He'd come in and I'd be like, Todd, I've got to tell you about these athletes. I've got
to tell you their stories. Like, I am sitting here. I'm so blown away. Like, I'm crying. I'm
laughing. They're amazing people. But listen to this. This is what they've been through. And then
sometimes it's not just one thing they've been through. It's several challenges they've had in
their lives. And Todd was like, oh, that's amazing. First time. Second time he came in,
he's like, wow, that's incredible. But he's like losing, you know, 45 minutes. And anyone knows
if they love being out in a tractor, they're just looking at sunlight to see how much they've got
left in the day. And I remember the third time he came in, he said, just so I know, how many
athletes are on the team for Australia? I went, I've got some great overseas stories as well. And
he's like, but how many am I going to hear? And I said, you're going to hear everyone. And that's
ultimately, if you could, that's what you want to do. You want to be able to tell everyone's story.
And so that's been the goal.
We, you know, on our shift during the Olympics, we tried to get every Australian's result away.
Even if it was just a mention of how they went, because there would be a family, a town, you
know, maybe a school who's watching that, who just get the biggest thrill of their life when
they actually hear how they go. And it's not that hard to give a verbal mention.
No. And your commitment to that was brilliant. And the ones you missed, you told me about in
the ad break. I got replaced in Todd's role there. And I heard every story that you had.
And people won't understand this as well. You're walking in and you get to work with
someone for two weeks in an intense period of time. You shared, you were clearly better
prepared than me by a factor of about 10, but day one, you gave me all your notes. And
you just said from the start, we're going to-
Yeah. And you know what? That's, again, something I just was taken by.
Did I do that with any of you?
I know you would.
So like anyone who I see that's struggling or anyone, because the first Olympics I did,
no one did that. So you don't actually know what to prepare for. So you prepare for-
The most ridiculous amount of things that you might only use a percentage. So the real
trick with an Olympics is do your base knowledge, but then know where to find your information.
And the same for the Paralympics. So you've got to have it. So you have it all there and
all done, but you know how to find it in a very short space of time if you need to check
something. And so when I see people struggling, I'm like, I don't understand this silo thing
where people just look after themselves. Our coverage is better when everyone's well
prepared. Our coverage is better when we work as a team and actually, particularly, I think
Because we were also in lockdown here in Melbourne. So we had six months down here.
Yeah. We managed to, Emma Vostie, we managed to, through her, we got contacts with team
captains and then we got the heads of every single sport. And then we got the coaches
and then we got anyone that we could think of that could give us an insight that you're
not going to find necessarily in an article or you're not going to find in a tiny briefing
package that you're given that you actually can hear the latest and what's happening in
their life and what to be a little bit more sensitive about. And it actually made our
coverage better because we had all the commentary.
We had all the hosts on. We had everyone behind the scenes. So this whole production
team started to get an understanding of what it took for these athletes to be there under
those circumstances and what makes them so amazing.
And I generally think the audience at home can sense when people are working together
well as a team and it comes across. And it's not always the case. I think there's an instinct
for some people to hold back and I'm going to look better if I have these extra facts
and you've been around long enough to-
Don't get me wrong. There are definitely those people. And they're people who just literally
will line people up to try and make them look silly. And I've been through all of
that. I've had my battles with those people and generally I've come out on top because
if you're going to be a female starting out in sport, you're kind of going to be dealing
with a lot of misogyny, whether it's open or hidden away at different stages when you're
starting out. And I think some of the best bit of advice I had was how you start is how
you finish. So don't go in and be all agreeable at the start. If there's something you don't
agree with, call them out on it.
And I've done that consistently the whole way. There are lots of people who, because
of that, I'm sure do not think that fondly of me because I call out their bad behavior.
But as I say to them, I've never been any different. And every night I can put my head
on a pillow and I can go to sleep and I sleep like I am dead. I am so stress-free. And it's
because I actively think about the decisions I make. I think about what I'm doing in my
private life. I think about would that impact the network?
So I keep saying to the bosses, every time I think I'm going to be sacked, I say to them,
and they go, why would we sack you? I go, well, because obviously sometimes I can raise
things that you're uncomfortable with. And I say to them, but it's not by mistake that
you haven't had some scandal relating to me. It's because I think about everything. I have
a responsibility to do that. And I like to live my life that way.
Yeah. And you've got a clear conscience. I think that's probably why you-
I have morals. And I have a very clear guideline with what I will and won't accept.
And you call a spade a shovel if you see something you don't like. I saw a video of you doing that.
I saw a bit of that up close and personal. And I loved it because it just was really
clear around, hey, these are how I like to operate. And this is what I expect from other
people. And I think it's brilliant. And you can do that with charm, do that with a spade.
You don't have to be mean. It's amazing how much conviction you can have when you live
by what you're talking about. And I think that's always been the thing that I've been
able to come back to at any time where it has been a challenging time at the network.
It's just like, well, you're saying this.
But I'm living it. And the difference between you and I is that I do that 24-7. And you just
want to say something just to smooth something over. Well, unless you're actually going to back
it up with actions, I'm sorry. That's just not good enough.
32 years, going on to 33 years in the industry, as you said, going back in time, that's a hard
place to be, media in Australia. And you said that misogyny, whether you like it or not,
you only have to look back at some of the clips of the pioneers as you were the way they- I saw
Dave, one of the first female women in sport on the ABC, being interviewed on the ABC. And the
reporters basically say, why do you think it's appropriate for you to be here, given you know
nothing about sport? This is 30 years ago on the ABC. You must have had some heartache along the
So many doozies along the way. And the other thing that I couldn't ever wrap my head around
is as an athlete, not only are you used to trying to excel yourself and doing everything that you
can to improve, but you have a coach. So if you can't see it-
You know, AFL, you probably had several coaches who are working on one specific thing. But in
swimming, it was really clear. I had a coach who I absolutely adored, who was just everything that I
like. I just wanted to make him happy. But also he could be brutal. So he would tell me what's
working and what's not working. And he also taught me early on that the only way that I was actually
going to be able to really make that effective in the pool was to leave the bits that weren't
working behind. So just don't take it as a criticism. My job is to tell you what you're
doing well. They don't do that in TV.
It constantly blows my mind still to this point. That's why I mentor anyone who asks for it,
because it blows my mind that they'd actually rather see people fail. And these days,
failing with social media is often the end of someone's career before it started. I hate this
mentality that we're not allowed to make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. I have never met a
perfect person. The trick is if you're going to make a mistake, make it, learn from it,
and then try to avoid making that same mistake again. But yeah, I would go into my boss's
office and they would be roaring with laughter at things that they were doing.
And I'd come off air and I'd be so frustrated because I knew I was terrible, like just
absolutely so green and so terrible that I was so green I would answer the person talking in my
earpiece to that person whilst I was live on air. And then I'd hear them go, don't answer me. What
are you doing? And then I'd be flustered. And then it was genuinely awful to watch.
But they thought it was funny, which I guess in hindsight, I was lucky they thought it was
funny and didn't just yank me off.
I think it was the amusement factor for them that actually kept you there. But I'd go into
them and I'd say, so can you please just play this back? Show me what I'm doing well and
tell me what I need to improve on. And tell me what I'm doing dreadfully badly that I
obviously, I'm going to see some very obviously myself, but there's got to be some tricks
and tips. And they'd say, no, no, don't worry about it. You'll be right. And I'm like, no,
no, I'd possibly like to learn another way other than just through public humiliation.
I feel like there's a more constructive way that I could be learning. And so, yeah, I'm
keeping in touch with a lot of those early mentors now. And they just said they couldn't
quite get that I would come in and ask them questions. And to me, that was like, that is
the obvious thing. So over the years, I've seen people be thrown into things and everyone
has idiosyncrasies and everyone has tics that they don't realize that they're doing. They
might clear their throat more regularly or they might twitch something. And often you
just grab them for five minutes and you say, hey, listen, let's just watch this back. I
just want you to see, let's write a list of 50 different things that you could say in
this moment. So it's just like giving that knowledge that you learned through the humiliation.
And I mean, I tell a story all the time, but there's one great one. And it was during
that, the Salt Lake Olympics when I was solo hosting the coverage for the first time as
a female. And one of my original bosses called me up in the hotel room and I heard his voice.
I knew his voice because it had been down my earpiece for some of the most traumatic
experiences of my early days in television. I heard his voice and he didn't say who it
was. He said, come down and have a drink. I knew exactly who it was. And there was so
much security after post 9-11. Then when I got down there, he's like, you didn't even
know who it was. And I was like, no, I didn't even know who it was. And he's like,
why? I was like, why could it be an ex-murderer? And I was like, no, I know exactly who it
is. And I said, I don't forget that voice. That's pretty well connected with some traumatic
moments. And anyhow, he only came to say sorry. And he was apologizing because he said he'd
had time to reflect on the situations that they'd put me in, the times where they would
sort of give a nudge in a truck and piss themselves laughing and say, let's see what Joe does
with this. And he said they would actively set up situations to see you fail on air effectively.
And he said, and you always had a way where you would,
either laugh with the person or you'd just laugh at yourself or you'd find a way to twist
it back. But you just kept powering on. Well, I'm thinking, well, I didn't know there was
any other way. You're live on air. But I said to him, you know, it was really lovely. He
never had to actually say sorry. But he said, well, I'm saying sorry because at this point
here you are solo hosting Olympic Games coverage and I'm unemployed. And I use that as an example
all the time when I am out talking to schools with a charity worker to explain the power
of a conversation because there was a bit of validation for me. You always knew it was
going on, but you could never explain it.
You never, ever have said something back then because you would have just been absolutely
thrown to the dogs if you did. But you would question things and you'd always get some
kind of smart ass answer back. And you're just like, okay, I'm going to put that one
in the cupboard and just remember it. But I'm going to learn from what I can from it.
And I can see that you've had a lot of people's back going forward. A lot of young females
coming into the industry. Anyone who works with you, I had that great pleasure of experiencing
that as well. It's like we're working together as a team. We share everything. I've got you
back here. And I think, you know, I found it really
confronting playing professional sport and going to the media. And you just, how do I
get better? Can you get some feedback? No one will give you-
No one. Unless it's really bad.
Or you're sacked.
And that is sort of the end point is that we'll tell you when we don't want you and
that will be the end of it. It's like, what a foolish way to go about it. And the amount
of people that are ruined by it. And as you said, now with cancel culture, we're not allowed
No one's allowed to fail anymore. And even silly things. Like I can remember they did
this sports pilot one day and they had this comedian doing,
a sports show. And they asked me if I would like do the news updates, the sport updates.
And I was like, right, this would be excellent. And then I got in there and my wardrobe was
just like, I don't know. I looked like I was going to be, you know, what's one of those
shows where they hold the suitcase and you're basically gesturing around. I was literally
like, why do I need to wear that to give sports results away? So thankfully, because I am
nice to everyone. And this is the other thing. If you know security, if you know the cleaner,
if you know the people with what some would consider the lowliest jobs, well, they all
have a role to play.
They are actually in charge of your career. Because if any of them decided they wanted
to ruin your career, they could easily do it a thousand times over. So you always treat
people with respect. Because I say to anyone starting out, I promise you, as you're falling
down, if you haven't, they're not going to be there to make it a gentle fall. They will
just be there standing back with their hands on their hips and drawing you, just crashing
to the ground. And so, you know, this head of security, I asked him to let me into the
wardrobe. Back then, Channel 7 just had this massive big warehouse of wardrobe. I found
a jacket that buttoned up underneath my chin and went down to my knees. And so I didn't
show anyone until I walked out to do the piece. And I got in so much trouble for it. But then
it became a conversation, well, why do I have to wear this? So why can't I wear that jacket?
Oh, so you actually don't want me to give you the sports update. You just want to see
what my breasts look like on camera? Is that basically what you're doing? And then when
you put that on someone, they don't know. And they can't hit reverse quick enough to
get out of justifying why that's not really what they're after.
This is what I love about you. I can actually...
Picture this conversation word for word. And it's brilliant. Calling out would have
been a male executive.
A hundred percent.
It's put you in this revealing, ridiculous... You didn't feel comfortable. You've gone and
sorted it out. But you've always had the presence, it seems, to be able to call that out. I mean,
there was a... Not too long ago, young girls used to be... Kerry Armstrong was picked up
from school and did the weather in a bikini on Channel 9 News in the 80s.
We had a promo going many, many bosses back at 7, where I feel very safe to say it, where
they wanted all of their...
Network talent in bikinis, running along the beach, slapping each other on each other's
Yep. And I was just like, no. And they were like, why not? You've been in plenty of causes
in your life. I'm like, a hundred percent. They said, you modeled for Inside Sport. I
said, I did as an athlete. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I said, well, put it this way.
I'll do it when you have Bruce McIverney in a pair of slugos, running on the beach, hitting,
I don't know, a couple of guys on the ass. How about that? And that was the end of the
conversation. But it was just like, those moments. And even as recently as after the
Olympics and Paralympics, I had one of the male bosses sit down. And because I'd caught
him out on some bad behavior, he basically wanted to talk to me about, was I missing
my kids? And I was like, what? My kids at that stage, 27 and 26, like one at that stage
lived in cans. And they're very, very confident, very self-assured and very self-efficient
young men. I'm like, how many men do you have this conversation with? Because I'm fine.
He's like, well, but you must miss your husband. And I'm like, my husband is having the greatest
time of his life at the moment. Like we'd probably been together enough through COVID
that he could not wait till I got sent away for six months. And he missed me long enough
that by the time I got back, it was just, it was awesome for our relationship. Like
we had so much fun seeing each other again. But literally I was just saying to him, hang
on, before I answer any of this, when have you last had a conversation with a man about
these things? Like what has this got to do with anything? And it actually came out that
he just didn't want me to call him out on his bad behavior.
Yeah. And you will consistently.
I said, well, don't behave badly. And there's the answer.
I haven't got a problem. It's genius. And I think you've carved a path that is a really
impressive one for everyone, male and female. Griggs, you and I got enormous respect for
you on that front. You mentioned the boy. I'm always curious on the home front. What
do you like as a mum?
Well, I think I'm a very consistent mum. I have a great relationship with the boys. I
mean, our boys were wild. And I think, I mean, they're still wild. Don't get me wrong. They're
now 28 and 27 and they are the best fun to be around, but they are wild.
And they always were. I think what was really important is, I said, this is where I'm talking
about like, yeah, there's no scandals. There could have been a million scandals if anyone
had actually seen what was going on behind closed doors with our kids, because they were,
they were, they pushed the boundaries on absolutely everything. But because I didn't, I don't accept
free gifts. Like I never have. And if I go into a contract with someone, I'm happy to share
everyone the details of if it's a mutual, I give you this for this, I'll do it. But for the most
part, I don't, I don't accept free gifts. I don't accept free gifts. I don't accept free gifts.
I never have. And I don't accept free tickets to events. I make a lovely excuse, but I pay for the
tickets and I go with friends. And then therefore there's not an obligation that you have to have
a photo. So what it allowed us to do was for the years where the boys were, you know, rat bags is
probably a very polite way of saying what I'd like to say. Yeah. We had forever said to people
off limits with the kids, let kids be kids. Kids are mean enough to other children,
particularly through those formative years with the added pressure of social media,
which we didn't have when we were growing up.
And so people respected that because I wasn't being a hypocrite. I wasn't turning up to the
opening of an envelope. Like I do publicity as per my contract and that's it. And so because of that,
the boys were, they were like, they were so naughty and they got themselves into so much
trouble, but no one never, never saw that because we had the door closed. So at home, like they
always hated me wearing too much makeup for work, still do. But any girlfriend they've ever had,
they're like really natural girlfriends, which I'm sure is some weird little kickback to seeing
their mum always, you know, doled up for wrong things.
Um, but you're just mum and, and Todd's just dad. So you, you are, they respect you for how
consistent you are with the boundaries that you set them. And now they're past all those horror
years and they keep saying to us, geez, we really, we're really sorry. Like we really don't quite get
why we were that bad. And it's like, yeah, you're also pretty lucky. And then I remember the exact
year where Jesse said one day at the races, I think I'd like to come to the races with you.
And I said, okay, but you have, you, you need to understand the gloves are off then at any point
now, if you're, if you go into that social,
if you go into, you're coming to an event, you cross a line in the sand that you can never come
back. And I feel like you've, you've witnessed enough of everything that I've gone through,
the highs and lows in the industry, everything there, you know, but that has gone through in
the industry that if you cross that line, then all of a sudden you just have to understand for
every action, there's a consequence. What a gift you gave them when you look
back, isn't it? And that, I mean, cause it's, it's intoxicating sometimes and you gotta free,
there's free stuff everywhere in our industry and, and tickets to go to things. But for you
to understand that, it's a gift.
I understand that before it all started. And, and that's how we want our kids to grow. We want
them to make those mistakes.
We want them to make mistakes because it makes them better humans. And that's that whole thing,
like makes anyone making a mistake. If you learn from it, it makes you a better person. So yeah,
I think, I think it's,
Would have been 10 times harder wouldn't have, if they had had to have the public,
they may not have come to the other side.
Look, it could have gone absolutely pear-shaped for them. And it's a pressure that, you know,
they might have thought they understood, but they don't. It's probably only now that they truly
understand, you know, how much you think about those things and, and why you made those decisions.
Like they, and like they, they spent years at Melbourne Park. Like they got so spoiled with
tennis cause I've hosted it for 17 years and they'd go to so many matches that often there'd
be some blockbuster and at Rod Laver Arena, we have tickets for them and they just play handball
out the front of the, of the studio. And then when they got bored, they'd go and get room service,
but they, you know, they've always been independent, but they definitely have been
allowed to, to grow up and go through their own challenges, which every,
every child goes through.
Yeah. And it's brilliant. You, you share that. And being around you, I know you have,
and I look at my house and think of some of the loose things, but your purpose built to do that.
I mean, you know, particular boys' brains don't form properly. Still waiting for that to happen.
And I even, I look at myself, like we did stupid things in our teenage years.
And I think cause they were a day under a year apart as well. They never were making a stupid
decision by themselves. Like they always had each other as backup. So they just would double down.
And like, I'm so stubborn. Todd is so stubborn. Like,
it's not a surprise when they've decided to be stubborn back to us.
Jess is also, he's got a mind of a lawyer. He's the most brilliant person to have an
argument with or a debate with because he can just, one, his memory, I've got a pretty
phenomenal memory, but his is next level. And you just, you kind of, you kind of get frustrated,
but in awe at the same time.
The DNA is fascinating, isn't it? When you can see it coming back at you reflected, it's,
it's, it's interesting, isn't it? You're always trying to claim the good traits and
hand the other ones off to Beck that aren't.
So enticing. I love that, you know, Bed, Homes and Gardens, 30 years, 20 years as your host has
told positive stories that have improved people's lives. They're not there to judge or denigrate
anyone. I love that very few spots on mainstream TV where that exists. And it, and again, no
surprise you're the host because I don't think you'd stand for much else.
Well, even I did a foray into reality TV for seven years and I've got to say outside of
the teams that I loved and some of the crews that I had worked with,
that I adored, that was the most excruciating thing because it was the opposite of that.
It was about trying to be awful and it didn't start out like that, but it evolved into that
because now TV executives have convinced themselves that everything has to be controversial and,
and outrageous. And it's got to, you know, you've got to have people in tears. You're
going to have high drama. When I started House of Wars, it was just a really positive,
gorgeous show. And it just kind of evolved and started going down. And every year I'd sit with
the bosses and I'd have a hundred suggestions for them. And it's the only genre I've ever worked in
where they honestly think that it's, it's a whole new thing, this television thing that they're
making. So they wouldn't, they won't listen. They won't take input, won't take feedback.
And so it just kept going. And it got to a point where I actually could not, I could not live with
myself working on a show that was actively ruining people's lives. And so again, you know, we did,
we shot two endings one year and I went to the farm and cried for a week after it. I was so upset
what I'd done to those teams. And yeah, I sat down in a meeting with the bosses and between us,
I kept saying, between us, we've got over 50 years of experience around the table. In my head,
I was like, if you add up mine, I've got more than the two of you together. But that aside,
I kept saying, I thought it was horrible. And they said, well, we didn't think it was that bad.
And I said, well, that's what we do in television. We convince ourselves that we're all so fabulous
that there's no reality checks in it. And you don't have people around you that are willing
to pull you up on these things. I said, so I've stepped over the line again. And I've actually
asked the contestants to write their experience and their family members to write their experience.
And I said, so I've blown it up to make this really easy. But what I have highlighted are
the absolute devastation, the anxiety they felt, how it's impacted their lives, how they're not
sleeping. So it doesn't matter what you tell yourselves, this is what they're experiencing.
And it's because of what we actually did to them. So now that we've got that aside, between us,
let's work out a way where we can do one ending and still have all the sensitivities that you
want protected. And they're saying, oh, it's not true. We shoot two endings because it could still
go either way. I said, well, then how come I only ever got one script? It's as simple as that.
I only ever had one winner. So again, you can tell yourself that there were going to be two
versions. But as host, I only ever had one script. So from that point on, we never shot two endings
again. And I know it bugged them, absolutely killed them. But it's just like, treat people
well. You'll get more out of them. So when I started, you weren't allowed to talk to the teams.
You weren't allowed to talk to crew members who I'd worked with for all those years. None of it
made sense in my head, which everything else I do in my life is the complete opposite. And so part
of that decision to leave was just like, I've got to do this. I've got to do this. I've got to do this.
I couldn't be on the board of Beyond Blue and then work on a show that was actually... And they'd
say, well, it's not really impacting their lives. I'm like, actually, one of these guys, he was
working for the Australian Federal Police. You made up a storyline about him being disrespectful
to women. It almost cost him his career. He's now so high up the food chain with his job because
thankfully he was able to keep it. But it was touch and go there for a while. And then what
they want you to do is not have any contact with them so that they're never held accountable.
It's like, I don't operate like that. I'm going to get the best out of them. Every new series,
I just walk in and say, they're going to stop me soon, but I just want you to know this. I'm here
to defend you. So any of you have any problems, you come to me. If you think something's untoward,
you come to me and I'll take up that fight for you. And then I'll just be like, almost crash
tackled to the ground with a, stop speaking. Never go to a meeting with Jo Griggs and not
expect her to be well-prepared. Not surprised you went to the families. But again, I love,
I hope maybe the needle does shift eventually. It seems like mainstream TV now,
it's just as nasty. It's nasty. And the funny thing is it does affect the families. Like
parents be on the phone and them sobbing their hearts out because they were so worried about
what would happen to their kids. It's public humiliation. It's public humiliation. And so
when they keep telling me this is the way they have to go, I say, then how come Better Homes
works? We only celebrate people who are passionate and have great ideas and who love what they do.
And we get to do nice things for people, but also you just get to speak to people who are
doing great things in the world. And here it is 30 years.
And yeah, I remember very last meeting when I was stepping down from House Rules,
one of the bosses said to me, I believe, he said, this is the direction we're going to go in. And I
believe that you think you have too much integrity to do it. And I just started laughing. I said to
him, well, this is a first. I've actually never heard anyone use integrity as an insult.
And I said, impressive. But I said, I said, I just want to say, you're right. I'm not going
to do it. But as, as I would also like to get in early with my, I told you so, because I give this
show very little time on air before it fails. And it was,
two nights on air before it got bumped. Too much integrity. There's a first,
isn't it? You're not suitable because your integrity is at too high a level.
And I love your story because to me, you have gone in to fight authentically for everything
you believe in. And you know, I'm passionate about what leadership looks like in different
settings. And I think your version of that is quite incredible. And we've seen these patterns
around what different leaders look like, Griggsie. So I want to ask you a few questions on these
different dimensions of leadership and the idea that's very hard. I think you've got a clear
To lead anyone else, unless you know yourself really well and your own sense of self-leadership,
what does that mean to you?
Well, I think you've got to know what your strengths are and also when you need to delegate
and when you need to rely on other people's strengths. I think a lot of the, I guess,
less popular leaders, in my opinion, that I have watched up close have been the ones who,
who just are so controlling that they won't let anyone else have a suggestion or take any
responsibility. If you, if you're a really great leader, you actually have quite a lot of spare
time because you've actually, you've got a lot of time. And you've got a lot of time to
actually found great people. You've, whether it's, whether it's, you've educated them in
certain things that you want them to get their skills set up, but you, you recognise what
you're lacking in and how they can, how they can actually be great leaders because then
it's a team thing. And I remember like part of what I do for BU is I chair the National
Advisory Council. And BU is the National Mental Health Initiative in early learning services
and schools across the country. So it's in one in three early learning services and over
70% of all schools. And we just got put in every school in the Northern Territory through a
government initiative. And I remember being so overwhelmed seeing the names around the table
and representatives from health and education from every state and territory and the government level
in that room. And it was my husband. He said to me, you're not there to be the expert. You have
a room full of experts, Jo. Your job is to be the conduit to get them to, to, to open up and to
share their expertise. And some of those people are going to be extroverts and some of them are
going to be introverts. And you're going to have to work harder on the introverts because what they
have to say has just as much value as the extrovert, but often they don't get heard in that
kind of setting. Yeah, it's a brilliant,
um, insight. No, not surprising that Todd, your husband had that about you because I could picture
you bringing a team like that together. And I've never seen this before working on the
telecast of the football guys holding the camera have got the best ideas because they watch it
more closely. And I often think what a waste not to ask them for their ideas or not to collaborate
with the whole range of people in the industry that are sitting there. They get rid of those
people with all that experience, like the intellectual property that goes, the, the
insights that they have. I,
I don't understand that. They're the best people in the world to sit down and just natter with
coming back to better homes. One of my cameramen shot my very first piece to camera.
Another one just retired last year after 45 years in TV, 20 years on better homes. Another one I've
worked with for 18 years. You know, I'm lucky now. I only work with people who, who have the
same sort of philosophy and same values, but they also are people who have been around for a while
and are flexible. Like they're not rigid in their ways. They're happy to always learn and upskill
talk to someone who has that experience and take it on board.
Yeah. Brilliant. Not surprising. They're great lifelong friends of, uh, of yours. We see leaders
are really conscious around on a daily basis, how they positively impact people in the environment
they're in. This is right to your forehand. Uh, do you conscious about that impacting people
positively? Yeah, I think, um, I think a lot of people can go to work these days and not feel
like they're seen or heard. And I think feeling like you're not heard is horrible, but feeling
like no one even sees you is horrendous. So.
So I make a conscious effort, you know, to make sure I'm regularly in our production office. Now,
lots of presenters might not ever go in there, but it's about going around and talking to each
person and finding out a little bit about their lives and their families. And, you know, I remember
doing a big, um, like a big weekend up at the farm. We had 110 from Better Homes and it was
just fascinating watching other people look at other people and go, oh, she's got six kids. Now
I know why she tries to get out the door at 4.30 in the afternoon. You know, like she's, she starts
earlier, but she.
She's getting out the door because she actually wants to be present in a work-life balance. And
this is well before COVID where that was even something that was even considered. So again,
it's about humanizing all those people around you so that you have a greater understanding of
what makes them tick. And there are going to be some people who have severe anxiety, or there's
going to be some people who, you know, I hate walking in front of a room full of people I don't
know. Um, you've got to let all those people still be heard and be seen.
Yeah. And then your life is so much more magnified and better, isn't it? Yeah. So again,
Sounds simple, but you do it in a really special way. We see leaders are really conscious around
the vision they want to create for the spaces they are in. And you've got to really, you know,
I'm not sure if you actually articulate it, but you walk into a space with you and it feels like
you know exactly what you want it to be. How have you gone about creating and sharing that with
I think I just tried to remember what it's like when I started out and all those things that I
found strange that people wouldn't do. Like just say hello. I know it sounds like a simple thing,
but I used to blow my mind.
We'd go to these big production meetings and you'd be sitting next to people who you're going
to be working with really intensely for a period of time. And no one would talk to each other.
They're not given a time just to, to actually just meet and greet and say g'day. So I think,
I think, I think about things like that, about, uh, of just spending the time
wanting them to enjoy themselves, wanting them to feel like nothing that they're going to say
is silly. Like it kills me when someone in our office says, look, this is probably going to be
the silliest thing you've heard. And you're going to shoot me. Absolutely not. There's no such thing
as a silly question. And there's no such thing really as this. I mean, there can be some pretty
funny statements, but sometimes those people have the most amazing insights because they also have
sat back and watched and observed. And there's a lot to be said for just doing that alone as well.
And if you don't create the conditions where people are comfortable to ask one,
then you're going to lose all this gold.
All that gold. And you also lose someone who might potentially be somebody who could go
all the way through everything that you're doing in your business model set up to end up being the
leader. Yeah. I know with Better Homes, it took us a long time.
To get the right people in charge of the show. And that's because the network kept saying they
weren't going to listen to talent. It took 10 years to get the right person in. And we had
some absolute disasters along the way. But I was told ultimately that the person that I kept putting
forward was someone who was working in our office, not the loudest, not the noisiest, not the
most in your face, but the person who was the one that was going around and checking on people and
keeping things going and keeping communication open. It took 10 years to get him put into that
position. Such a condescending word, talent.
You know, hair stands on the back of it. You're the talent. Why would we listen to you? It's like,
because maybe I've been doing it for 33 years and potentially together, we might be able to,
not surprised you won the day again. It took you 10 years, but.
Well, I actually also got an apology from one of those bosses because I remember in one particular
meeting and saying, have you checked the references of the person you are putting in? And they were
like, it's none of your business. And I went, okay. Cause I figured this is the news you're
going to drop to me. I've been having me sit out in the foyer for 40 minutes. So I've just
spent 40 minutes doing a bit of research. So I just reeled off what I'd learned. And they looked
at me and they're like, again, this is none of your business. I said, yeah, but I'm red flagging
something with you. And they're like, well, we'll just have to wait and see. And sure enough, it was
pretty much a capitulation of the highest level you could imagine what eventuated. But one of
them ended up, you know, again, they wanted to go with someone different even after that. And then
I said, can you just, just put him in for a trial? And one of them said, you know what,
Greasy, this is amazing. You're right. He's actually really great in that role.
Yeah. So I was like, really? Yeah. I'm going to now feed your ego and say, thank you. That's
wonderful news. You're amazing that you actually took that step and put him in. But in my head,
I'm just like, we could have saved 10 years and all these great people we lost along the way
because of really terrible people management. Yeah. And I always railed against those people.
And so as I've got older, you almost feel sorry for those people we put in roles. No skills to do
or no lessons on how to manage people or how to interact properly. And so you set those people up.
They love that look. That's what they say to me. You have to understand they've just,
these are people that we've just promoted through TV. I go, well then when is it as a,
as a business model, when is it going to be that you put these people into these roles and then
you upskill them, you send them off to management training, you send them off to different things,
you give them opportunities where they can go somewhere really inspiring for them,
where they can learn off somebody. And then actually then no one can say they don't know
how to manage people. That's not the excuse we're going to hide behind.
Yeah. No, it's a great, it's a great point. We see people are successful consistently and
show up in that way are really curious and through curiosity, they're constantly learning.
Is that, is that you?
Constantly. Like both at work and also away from work. Like I just, I feel like, and sometimes
I've often said to Todd, I wonder if it's because, because of swimming, I only had a couple of months
secondary education. So I never actually finished school and never sat an exam. And, and sometimes
in the situations and the settings, I mean, and the things I'm doing, I'm, I feel very self-conscious
of that. And so I think it's just created this lifelong passion just to learn. So whether it's
about diet, you know, we did an artificial insemination course last year on, on our cattle.
I'm about to do a butchery course in two weeks time. Yeah. I'm a beekeeper. I love, I grow 85%
of all my veggies because that goes back to when I was sick. And I know that the very best food can
be the organically grown food that I can grow. And I've learned all this stuff from Better Homes
over the years. So, you know, we really basically only ever have to shop to top up. We don't,
we don't have to, we can get everything out of our garden. And then I've learned how to preserve it
and pickle it and dehydrate it and turn it into powder. So there's very little waste. And I'm so
big on the sustainability and recycling aspect that, that you actually, you live what you
dreamt about and it's amazing how satisfying and fulfilling it is, but you're always learning.
And what I love, it's a great message again. There's an obsession with ATAR and
smartest people that are in my world are like you either hated school, dropped out of school,
failed miserably a lot of the time. And there was, they learn in different ways.
And so I think, yeah, again, you see a generation of kids are told they're dumb because
they can't write, learn and get a good ATAR. It's like, it opens your brain in a different way. And
It's funny how, like I talk to school kids a lot about that. I talk about the transition years and
I talk about the, the, the end of school and I stand up in front of them and I can recognize in
their faces that they're just like, we have no idea who she is because they don't watch free to
wear. Right. So you've got like years of these kids just looking at you just going, uh-huh.
And then you go, oh, I don't know. And then you go, oh, I don't know. And then you go, oh, I don't
know. And then you go, okay. And better than that, I know that you have no idea who I am. I'm
going to talk to you about a medium that you don't watch. It's called free to wear TV. And then
they're all like, yeah, we watch YouTube. We do this, we do that. And then, and then you go, but
I still think there's going to be some lessons in this that you can learn from, which is don't let
somebody tell you one result is going to be the emphasis for the rest of your life. There's,
there's so much available to, you know, as I'm 50 now that I could go down several different paths
and toy with the idea. Like if, if the Olympics had been canceled, I was going to go and do an
agronomy course. So I will continue just to keep learning in every possible way.
And Grigsy, you communicate for a living now and you do it, do it brilliantly. You shared with us
that, you know, at the start, there was some rough moments as there was for everyone. Have you
thought really about the way you communicate your message? I think I don't really have to these days
now with Better Homes because it is so positive. It's more about relaying it to somebody who's
very nervous, just to, just to reassure them that you are not going to make them look silly. You
know, that's everything.
Everyone's fear. They don't want to look silly and, and that everything that is going to put to
air, it's not just me. It's a team effort. We will just protect them and they will look at this and
they'll be like, my God, I'm amazing. By the time they've watched the story go to air. I think with
sport, I make a conscious effort to try and focus on the positives. Even, even in sport, those
stories where people are going off the rails or, you know, something's happened in their life,
that can be told in a really positive way. I mean, I, I do hate, I hate the way that a lot of news
And the relentlessness of it. And, you know, we're still seeing from a Beyond Blue point of view,
the, the impact of kids hearing death tallies from state versus state and country versus country. And
you know, in Australia, we're not really great at, at celebrating, acknowledging death. There's
some cultures that are really fantastic at it. I spoke to Ray Martin the other day. He's done
this great series on just following different cultures and how they treat it. I feel lucky.
We grew up big country family. We'd go to a funeral. It would start off with everyone crying.
By day three, your parents were dead.
Everyone was dancing on a table and everyone was just celebrating someone's life, but it was always
an event. And it's kind of nice to that. So I, even in, even those negative stories,
you can actually still find a positive way to tell them. I think I really am conscious of trying to
Yeah. And it's brilliant. I, I, it's so aligned with the way you think it's, you know, sport gets
covered now with the worst headline and the...
And the clickbait. Like, and I've been receiving end of just rubbish stuff with clickbait, which,
which if anyone, like, you know, the people who are slamming haven't actually listened to it,
or they would realize there's actually nothing.
There's no story in it. But by that stage, you've got athletes commenting on it and this,
and you're just looking at it going, oh my gosh, this is...
Is there one you can share? Is there one that jumps out?
Oh, there's, I could share too. Like the, my dummy spit after the Commonwealth Games closing
ceremony on the Gold Coast. I, not from the athletes. The athletes were just thanking me
about what a debacle.
Because you were fighting for the athletes, weren't you?
Well, I was fighting for the, I was just fighting because I thought it was a rotten decision and a
So remind people again, they didn't allow the athletes to be in...
They made a decision to turn the lights off the athletes. So they made them, like they had the
athletes watch the game.
Before the televised ceremony actually started. And that's happened plenty of times before and
it's worked beautifully. But usually an opening is very full of all the official parts of a
ceremony. And the closing is just a joyous celebration. And, you know, Gold Coast had
done such a great, great job with it. And they made a choice to turn off the athletes,
not make it about the athletes. And so the athletes just left.
So the lights went on and you could, yeah.
Yeah. They'd never seen, never seen. And, you know, like Kurt Fearnley, I remember him
coming out and he had the flag because he was carrying the flag in.
And I remember looking down and somebody's walked up to him and ripped the flag out of
his hands. And then he was just kind of looking around going, what? And then they realised
they needed him for a photo op. So they shoved the flag back in and got him up the other
end of the thing. He was home. Yeah. He was actually, I think, at a mate's place having
And you were doing the official broadcast.
Well, and I was saying, guys, get a camera. The athletes have, they're all out of the,
they're heading out of the stadium in a hurry. And they're going, no, no, we still got some.
But by the time they showed athletes, you're lucky if there were 200 left
in the stadium, but also the stadium, a lot of the stadium had left as well. So I just,
you know, they said, as broadcasters, we have to spin this as a positive thing. And I was
like, no way, there's literally no way I'm going to do it. And they're like, well, we
think you have to, because we're broadcasting it. And I said, well, I'm giving you fair
warning. I'm going to go rogue. And so I just remember there's this big silence. They said,
hold on a second. And they obviously cleared it right to the top. And they came back and
they just said, say whatever you feel like you need to say. And so like, that was funny
because it was actually, funnily enough, a female woman in sports.
Who decided to absolutely attack me. And it was the most ridiculous. Like it wasn't
even, it wasn't even fact-based. It was the most ridiculous thing. But boy, people jumped
on board that. And I just remember for a couple of days, just, I actually was in a voiceover
booth. So I didn't even really see it. All I remember is I got home. Todd, of course,
he never watches anything that I do, which I kind of love. Nor do my boys. I love it.
I actually love that about all of them, you know, because you are just mum and wife. And
Todd just rang me in the morning. And by that stage, I'd realised that my phone had blown
up and everyone was faffing.
And I had the publicist and they're freaking out about how to handle it. And Todd just
said to me, hey darling, anything happen last night? I was like, oh yeah, I think I might
have blown up my career. He goes, oh, again.
How do you, how do you feel about it? And I said, I feel, I feel like it was the right
thing to do. He said, well then don't worry. He said, it'll pass.
He said, love you. Just come home safely. And that was, that was all we discussed about
that. But it went for days. Like I remember Julia Gillard, who was our chair at Beyond
Blue at that point, she sent me an email going, hey matey, you're a good girl.
Okay. And I was laughing because I'm like, what you went through was so much worse than
this. And she's like, this is pretty vicious. And I was like, mate, I said, look, I'm, I'm
actually fine. Another one was a journo through the Olympics. I think it was with Kyle Chalmers
and saying that we were commenting on Kyle's relation. I don't know. I can't even remember
what it was about. And then that got picked up as this big thing. Never said it. Just
said that the person, in my opinion, who kept talking about it was Kyle himself, which he
did out of every single race. And I got smashed by that.
But it was, it was again, like his dad did radio and I was just watching it going. I
think I've had enough of it that you kind of get a thick skin, but you're just looking
at going, wow. Again, if that was someone that was starting out, that would probably
really affect them. Whereas I was like, yeah, water off a duck's back. Do your best. This
will be hilarious.
Brilliant. And I love every part of that. Who's been the greatest leader in your life?
I would have to say from example, my mum. She, like we, we look at it now, four kids,
work full time, studied full time, never made any of the four of us feel like we, we
weren't the priority, which as a mum of two young men now, I go, how did she actually
do that in that, in that era? And with, you know, lots of other sort of pressures around
it. So she, she led by example, but also my sisters, like my oldest sister, I always say
to everyone between my sisters and my younger brother that I'm the underachiever of the
family because they're all pretty extraordinary. My sister was, you know, first female president
of the company that came up with the technology that photographs of Mars, you know, felt compromised,
left a job, went around Australia and started two businesses. And then like she now runs
the leading, you know, social media business company in Australia. Like there's people
who, who I guess have set their values, not compromised it, like follow their passions,
but not compromise the things that are important to them. And, and yeah, we talk about whether
you can have everything. And I think sometimes you can't have everything, like you're going
to feel like you're a failure.
As a mom, we're going to feel like you're a failure at work, but you, the one thing
you actually can have, if you strip everything else there, uh, how you feel about yourself
and how you treat people, because you're in control of that. And that is probably the
ones, they're the people that I've learned those lessons from.
Yeah. What a great message that is. And it's so nice that you go to the home front, isn't
it? And I know your relationship with your mom and your, and your siblings is incredibly
strong. We're a bit obsessed with collaboration and you talked about moving the world out
of silos into more, and you're an incredible collaborator.
And you're an incredible collaborator and you've got lots of passions and your whole
range of areas. We could do another whole series on, on the growing the veggies and
Mrs. Huggins hobby hub.
I love it. There is a TV show in that, but has there been someone you thought, God, I'd
love to collaborate with that person on one of the things or that you're passionate about?
To be honest, I feel like I get to work with all the people that I've seen that I want
to do that with. Like, um, I mean, even like silly frivolous things like my stylist, uh,
which in visual medium.
Um, is really important. I had so many years of just shocking solace because I'm not a
size, you know, six and I'm six foot tall. So most people just, you know, particularly
in that world, they look at you and they're like, how much material are we going to have
to use? Oh my God, let's just cover her up. And, and I just didn't care enough about fashion
to really ever pay any attention to it. So for years, some of the stuff I'd be wearing
at the races I'd be looking at. And then it just got to a point where I felt like it was
grab a granny night on Tuesday night, the RSL and that they just basically went down there
and gave someone 10 bucks for the outfits and bought it back for me to wear. Um, and
so, you know, I found somebody who actually dresses me in stuff that I'm comfortable in
and came and looked at my wardrobe and worked out what that was. And so little things like
that. I, I love, um, Julia Gillard was a real highlight for me to work with. Our new chair,
Sam Mostyn is another one who's a phenomenal leader.
She's on the Beyond Blue board.
Beyond Blue board. And I've done my three terms. I've just been extended for another
two years with that. Um, I, I work with lots of charities with people that you never hear
their names, but they've done them.
Most extraordinary work behind the scenes for decades now. And so I don't know, I think,
um, there's not actually anyone that I can think of that I look at and go, geez, I'd
like to just do something just with you. I think, I think I've got lots of those good
people around so that I know that if I ever went, right, what I'd like to do is rip up
this show and just have everyone working in this amazing environment, just to prove to
people that you can actually have it done like that, that, that I'd be able to fill
a production team in half a heartbeat.
Yeah. And I'd like to see you do that because I'm sure you could.
And you've probably half done that anyway.
I don't know. I don't know how I'd go with actually the negotiation part of it again
with the bosses, the many bosses that I've pissed off.
Well, Griggs, it's a great pleasure to spend any amount of time with you. You are a legend
and, and, um, the great privilege to have worked with you and seen how you impact others
every day is inspiring. And, um, I hope you keep doing it for as long as you possibly
want. I'm sure there's another great chapter coming up, but thanks for taking the time
Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. And I love it. You know how much I loved working
with you. I felt like I had the luckiest.
Olympics and Paralympics. I had you and then I had Kurt Fearnley and I just got to spend
that much time with you. And it just, it was such a joy.
Thanks for listening to another episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast. Huge thanks
as always to our great friends at Temper. And we encourage you to check out our Leader
Connect program. New episodes are out every Wednesday morning at 6am.