I know you're going to enjoy this week's guest on the Empowering Leaders podcast,
the founder and CEO of Broad Radio, Jo Stanley, Australia's first radio network for women by women.
And you hear Jo talk about not naturally being a risk taker,
but the idea and the passion behind Broad Radio allowed her to take that risk.
Look, there's great risk involved.
I'm not actually a normally risk, I'm a very risk averse person.
I'm a very fearful person.
But I also just believe passionately if there's something that needs to be changed,
you should be the one to change it.
Jo also talks about what she misses most about her 12-year career and success in Breakfast Radio.
That core team on air and that really sort of supportive team off air,
I miss that sense of belonging.
It always felt like a family and that I had somewhere to go every day where I mattered.
In a lot of ways, one of the reasons I'm building Broad Radio is for to create that environment again.
And you might have known that Jo Stanley comes from,
four generations of missionaries.
And you hear her talk about the impact of that on her life growing up.
My parents were missionaries and my grandparents were missionaries.
And my great-grandparents were missionaries actually.
Along comes Jo Stanley.
I thought I'd be a stand-up comedian.
It's people like Jo Stanley who inspire the work we do at Alita.
We are super passionate about bringing together groups of five to six people
from around the globe, from different backgrounds to come together to connect
and to learn and to collaborate.
Love you to book a discovery call.
Head to alitacollective.com today.
Big thanks to Jason Nicholas and his team from Temper Bedding.
We know successful people really understand the importance of sleep
and value a good night's sleep.
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is a decision that will change your life.
Jo Stanley is the founder and CEO of Broad Radio,
Australia's first radio network for women by women.
Jo's vision is a global community of women who are happy, healthy and fearless,
connected by the sun.
The transformative power of radio that truly reflects who they are.
Jo spent 12 years herself in breakfast radio,
during which time she took two shows on two different networks to number one,
the only woman in Australia to ever do this.
Jo was the co-host of the House of Wellness TV show on radio for seven years,
producer and host of numerous podcasts,
writes a regular column for Sunday Life magazine,
or at least previously did.
And is the creator of Play Like a Girl,
the kids book series, stand-up comedian,
much sought after MC and speaker.
You've done a lot, Jo, when I read this out.
Passionate about women's and girls' health, gender equality, social justice.
And in support of these issues, Jo is the patron for the Lighthouse Foundation,
for Wellsprings for Women, and is an ambassador for Left Right Hook.
Got a beautiful daughter, Willow, married to Daz,
and just an all-round legend in general there, Jo.
It's so nice that finally the two of us.
We've been working towards this, Jo, for a number of years,
and I've had the great pleasure of spending a fair bit of time with you
in the last six months.
Been a lot of fun.
You generally make me laugh every time I'm around you,
but I find you one of the most open and honest people I think I've ever met.
Is that always you?
Has that been you from a young age, or is that something you've grown into?
Well, that's an interesting question.
So I come from a very religious family,
and I think traditionally religion doesn't, in my experience,
accept all parts of you.
And so I would say that there were, I guess,
there were pressures in my broader family
and in just the sort of the religious culture that I was in
to hide parts of self.
You know, like that's a world where, you know,
it's got this sin tradition, I suppose, that awful word, sin, and shame, right?
So in a lot of ways, and for many years,
I don't think I was that honest with myself or other people
because it wasn't okay to be who you were in that context.
So your sister's a pastor, is that correct?
She is a minister, yes.
A minister, yeah.
And she's an amazing woman.
And I gain a great deal.
You know, I'm not actually anti-the church, and I'm not anti-religion.
What denomination?
But mom and the family's quite strict Anglican.
My parents were missionaries, and my grandparents were missionaries.
Forget this part of your story.
Yes, and my great-grandparents were missionaries, actually.
Along comes Joe Stanley.
I thought I'd be a stand-up comedian.
How did that go down with four generations of missionary families?
That must have caused a bit of drama.
I mean, you know, I have always been very loved and accepted in my family.
I wouldn't suggest that that's not been the case.
But there is a sense when you go and you hear the doctrine in a church
that is related to what's, you know, appropriate behavior and what's not,
and your belief system.
And as you go through your teens and into your 20s,
and you're kind of working out who you are,
if you are doing what I consider to be age-appropriate exploration of self,
sometimes that can make you feel as though you are, you know,
you carry shame around that.
But let me tell you that I am extremely loved in my family,
and I don't actually have any problem with religion or Christianity,
and I'm very inspired by my sister particularly,
who has a real sense of service.
You know, she works as a school chaplain,
and she's incredible and devoted to the students at that school
and is very – I'm quite guided by her, actually.
And similarly to you, I have a spiritual side to me.
It's just not necessarily in that Christian faith traditionally now.
You mentioned age-appropriate exploration of self.
I saw your eyes light up there, Daz.
Do you think you want to scoop here?
Can you delve in a little bit?
What were you like as a teenager?
I mean, we all caused our parents some grief in those teenage years.
Should we compare scorecards?
I reckon you might win, I think.
Did you push the envelope out pretty hard?
I actually don't think so, but I suppose being in a Christian family,
your usual kind of smoking behind the shelter sheds or on the train station
or, you know, the cheeky little underage drink that you might have done
at a 16-year-old party, that kind of thing was pretty extreme.
I mean, our family.
So now I look back and go, that's pretty tame, really.
It is for someone who's the founder of Broad Radio,
which is an incredible achievement, Jo, and it's a great passion.
You've just successfully raised some funds,
and I think in the last 24 hours, 48 hours, you've launched the Breakfast Show.
I just had a look at your app.
It's sensational.
You can text in and ring in.
I'd encourage anyone to check it out.
First ever Australian radio network for women by women.
It's a huge undertaking.
Can you tell us about your passion for that project?
Well, do you love radio still?
That's a good question.
I love this format.
I love talking to people.
I think I fell out of love with doing radio after 11 years.
The soundbite part of it lost me a bit in the end.
Because it's too short.
And I felt like you never could necessarily, if you had someone on,
I found that a bit frustrating.
This chat with you would be, you did this for years, four minutes,
and you go, really didn't fill my cup up in the end.
No, you'd be stopped at Christianity.
Thanks for coming, Jo.
We'll see you soon.
So I'm maybe not a radio lover like you, potentially.
Well, for me, I agree with you.
And I think that podcasting is on the rise enormously
because people crave a deeper conversation
and they want to learn more about life and the people in it.
But I also miss in podcasting,
the immediacy of it, and I miss that spontaneity,
the interaction that you can have.
And the live part of it you can't replace.
The live part, right?
And actually, if you look at podcasts now,
so many people are doing live podcasts
or they're doing live event podcasts or they're doing calls now.
So essentially trying to emulate radio as best they can.
Which is a great point.
The live part is the, that's the fun, isn't it?
Where anything could happen.
And also I think learning,
about your audience, I'm sure you are the same on Triple M.
Like on the, in the radio that I did,
we had such a beautiful relationship with our audience.
And I've, I just could see how transformative it is for people,
individuals and communities.
I mean, basically radio reflects and shapes society, right?
And so when I finished Breakfast Radio
and was looking around to listen to something myself
that reflected my life, I was in my mid forties at the time
and I couldn't find it.
There was nothing that really kind of connected with me.
And I was like, well, I don't think it's,
I don't think it's the,
the medium that's the problem.
There's just nothing that actually is doing the kind
of content that I want to listen to.
And then I realized, oh, that's interesting.
There's a market, you know, there's a problem that needs
to be solved, which is essentially what a startup is.
And looked into, well, not only, only 27% of the voices
that we hear on radio are female, which is, I think a problem
because in Australia, yeah, it's a problem because how does that
impact on how we speak?
How do we see society and how society is shaped?
It's like, okay, if we're getting a version of society
that is skewed in that way, it's not accurate, right?
So that's a problem for me.
And then I went, okay, so, but there's a huge audience
of women, women control 80% of the household spending.
I was like, oh, that sounds like a great opportunity.
So it became a passion around increasing voices
and diversity of voices.
I'd always found.
And I think you've done the same.
I think you, similarly to me, Dars, have used the power
of this microphone and having a voice to speak about things
that are really important to you and also represent people
who perhaps don't have a voice, right?
And I've always done that and largely tried to be a voice
for women, but I realised I shouldn't be speaking
on behalf of so many different women who never have a voice,
like First Nations women, women of colour, women with disabilities,
women of a certain age, which now I am.
And I thought, well, the best way of doing that then
is to make my one microphone a hundred microphones,
which essentially means, well, I'd better just build
a radio network then.
Which is, again, it sounds, you know, when you say it like that,
it's like, let's just do it.
But it takes an amazing amount of courage to do it.
And you mentioned the start-up journey,
which has got so many hurdles to jump, you know,
to get to day one and to raise funds is an amazing success.
Like to me, it's just already.
It's already, whatever happens from here, congratulations.
Oh, that's nice to hear.
And I think that's, I think you've got to celebrate along the way
because so many people get, the idea gets into the brain
and never gets activated.
But if someone's listening to this and they're thinking
of a start-up, what advice would you have for them?
Well, you want to just start and don't think about it.
I think most start-ups, people who are start-up founders
usually say, if I knew how hard it was, I wouldn't have done it.
And I agree in a lot of ways.
I thought, oh, well, I was in lockdown.
I had spoken to other large media companies.
They were quite interested.
And then COVID came along.
They went, no, not so interested now because revenue is different.
And I was like, oh, God.
I'll do it myself then.
Which tends to be my attitude to pretty much everything.
I'll just do it myself.
And I think that you need to know your why before you press start.
And if you have the why.
And you have an understanding of your audience, your market.
I mean, you have to do the research around that.
Then the question should and answer should always be, well, why not?
Like, look, there's great risk involved.
I'm not actually a normally risk.
I'm a very risk averse person.
I'm a very fearful person.
But I also just believe passionately if there's something that needs to be changed,
you should be the one to change it.
And I also think every problem.
can be solved if you just spend a little bit of time thinking about the problem
and just trying different ways of solving it.
So along the way, when you're building a startup, every single day,
there's something where you go, oh, geez, that seems insurmountable.
And then you just find a way because if you want it enough, you can.
And you're eminently qualified to do what you're doing.
I haven't got an MBA.
I haven't done a business degree.
You know, the medium inside out and upside down.
And you've been in this space for such a long period of time.
And I think that to me makes perfect sense.
And you look back at your history.
It was great, successful time.
And all the shows that you're on were a great success.
You're brilliant at it.
Did you look back fondly at your time in mainstream radio, doing breakfast radio?
Do you love, do you look back fondly at your time?
I thought I was asking the questions today.
I found a bit like what you said.
More articulate than I would, but I always thought it was just great privilege.
It's an unbelievably lucky job.
I enjoyed the fun part of it, of the live and being around different people.
We, we took the show to places we had no right to be regularly, which, uh, Eddie
and Mick and I bonded over being at the Superbowls or being Olympic games or
world cups of soccer.
So I love travel.
I love those things or Anzac day, dawn service back at that time and think that
was, that was pretty lucky, Joe.
So yeah, no, it's, I do have fond memories.
Would never do it again.
But it was, it was a good time for me.
I, um, we didn't have a budget quite like that.
I don't think we did either.
I'm not sure how we got there.
We didn't go to the Superbowl.
I know how you got there too, we didn't have that.
No, I, for me, it was, um, a sense of belonging that I miss enormously, uh,
particularly on the Matt and Joe show, but also with Joe and Lima on gold, but
on Fox, just that family on the, on air and off air, our beautiful family.
It was a wonderful, tight little team, which changed, you know, different people
came and went over the 10 years off air, but that core team on air and that you
really sort of supportive team off air.
I miss that sense of belonging.
It always felt like a family and that I had somewhere to go every day where I mattered.
And I think in a lot of ways, one of the reasons I'm building broad radio is for,
to create that environment again, for people who perhaps have had not great
experiences in the media.
Or are new to the media.
I've got a couple of young women who are sort of starting out in their careers.
I, so I miss that belonging and that beautiful family.
And I really miss the conversation with the audience.
And I, every day still have people stop me and say, I loved that show.
And I loved what you did and I miss you.
And I'm like, wow, tune into broad radio.
I've got a home for you now.
You mentioned the people that have had a bad time in media and anyone who's worked
in this space, I found that.
I'm coming out of sport for a living.
And I've said this many times before.
I found some of the behavior of executives and media downright bizarre, to be honest
And I was confronted by it.
And, and you know, when you're a male who's played sport, there's not really too many
things that are going to worry you personally, but I just saw it as being strange and then
really questionable.
And I felt for the women in that environment, sometimes I feel like a really hard place
People get unceremoniously sacked.
They get treated badly.
There's a horrible pattern of behavior that's been in this industry.
How did you navigate your way through that?
Ah, and you're right that the culture in many media organizations, and if we're talking
about radio, yes, that's radio included, is in many ways toxic at times.
And, you know, bad behavior was celebrated at times where you'd think that's what message
is that sending for the, you know, what are the values of this organization?
Have you got a thought, sorry to interrupt, but have you got a thought why, why, you know,
culturally that's been the case?
Is there, have you ever thought about that?
I, I would say that's for other people to answer.
That's diplomatic of you.
When did you become diplomatic?
You're not, uh, you're not going to go back to that and just, cause I mean, my answer
would be as exactly as you described.
I think when behavior is accepted and rewarded and you put people in roles and they put the
people that are like them in role.
That, that's the fascinating thing in culture to me that, that can permeate a building for
There was an exec that used to go around and, and whack a samurai sword on the desk famously
in Triple M and quote the art of war and all that sort of stuff like that, that stays in
organizations and people, that's what they grow up with and they become a version of
As bizarre as that sounds.
But your question is why, why is it accepted?
And I don't know the answer to that.
That part's harder to answer.
I don't know the answer.
I feel like when I say I'll leave that for other people to answer, what I mean is I'm
not a part of that club.
I'm not, it's a very patriarchal system, right?
I don't understand men like that.
Never have understood those sorts of leaders, if you want to call them that.
I think they're terrible leaders.
If this is a podcast about leadership, that is a what not to do right there.
I guess I can't answer it because I don't know why that behavior is accepted.
I don't know why a culture is actually built on that.
Like, is it because fear?
Is it because fear is believed to be the best way to control a workforce?
You know, like that, that's just horrific if that's why they actually, you know, encourage
that sort of behavior.
But I honestly don't know, but you would know better than me.
Well, the reality is I don't either.
I don't understand that type of male who behaves that way.
I just have no commonality at all with, with that.
And I, you know, found that very challenging and pushed back hard against that.
It was often amusing to see.
You like that, don't you?
Part of my problem, I can't help myself with, and part of my passion for sports changed
completely the way that people lead and males lead, every other industry, it's happening
in media and it's very slow.
Maybe the last part that's going to get that change because people, you know, it's dinosaur
And I think, I mean, I would like to acknowledge how important it is that we have men like
you pushing back and being role models and being, I think.
You know, refusing to be bystanders to it, that's really, really critical for the whole
of society because if we are going to say, hey, we actually need and expect evolved contemporary
leadership, it has to come very much from the men in the room, not just the women.
And that's an interesting conversation to have, Jo, because I think a lot of men are
fearful now around, we love our partners and our wives and our sisters and the females
in our life, but we get nervous now around stepping into.
Territory that you're not welcome or the right.
I speak to a lot of males who are great people who just find now it's more complicated and
confusing in that space.
Is that something that someone is really passionate about, always has been about equality issues?
Is that something we've got to encourage men more to say, you know what, just do the right
things, probably a good place to start and then, and stand up for behavior that you don't
see as appropriate, but it does feel more confusing than ever.
Can you, can you understand that?
I, I, it's not the first.
The first time I've heard people say that, and it, you know, the first thing I would
say to that is better to do something clumsily than not do anything at all.
I think I can't speak to exactly what it feels like to be fearful, to speak in that way in
an environment where you think you're going to get, I don't know.
Well, I mean, I, again, I can't understand, I can't speak to the different ways in which
people are canceled and how that can happen.
But what, what I would say is that.
This is my belief.
And we've, I think we spoke about this when you just maybe before or after you saw the
Barbie movie, which I loved that you went and saw the Barbie movie.
On your recommendation.
And I, and I loved it by the way.
My belief is that nobody, male or female benefits from gender inequality, right?
And gender based stereotypes or rigid roles, you know, like gendered roles.
You know, women are restricted by a notion that they're not able to be scientists or
work in finance or, you know, be great CEOs.
I think men are restricted in the same way that they're not allowed to take time off
to be with their kids and take paid parental leave, or that they're not allowed to express
their feelings, or you're supposed to buck up and be really, you know, tough guy or whatever.
It's the same prism.
Like it's the same continuum that restricts our true selves.
And so every time a man steps up and says, Hey, you know,
let's not talk that way about that person, male or female, then you're contributing to
each of us feeling safe to be who we are.
That's all it is.
Beautifully said.
I was searching for a quote from the Barbie movie, which didn't come into my mind as you
I could sing the song for you if you like.
Changing tack, you went back and as you said, you grew up in this, you know, four generations
of missionary families and you go into standup comedy, which to me is almost like a kind of
almost the bravest thing anyone can do to stand up there, microphone only.
And a room full of people saying, make me laugh.
That may be the most terrifying thing I think anyone could do.
How did you find that?
Well, I don't do it anymore for a reason.
That chapter's closed.
Oh, look, I still perform comedy.
I certainly, when I do, you know, keynote speaking and all that kind of corporate work,
I weave comedy into what I do.
I wouldn't go back to stand up comedy in a pub never again, partly because I just couldn't
handle the anxiety.
It's just, it was too much for me and I had enough things in my life to make me anxious.
I didn't need that as well.
It was a pretty easy thing to drop given I was doing breakfast radio sort of by then.
And I have done festival shows since like in the last four years, but they were not
But, but equally it was the greatest.
I mean, what a fantastic classroom.
For learning about yourself and about other people and about writing and performance and
storytelling and how to hold space in a room.
But equally, it never really felt like me.
I would say that doing broad radio and stepping into this sort of space where I'm really following
my life's purpose is one of the first times I felt truly me and doing standup.
there were so many inner voices that I was battling, not just on stage, but in the green
That was fucking horrific.
In fact, the green room was worse than being on stage.
I hear that from comedians that other comedians are talking about.
I just feel I'm having a physical reaction to it right now, to be honest.
It's got a bit of post-traumatic stress going back there.
It is so difficult being in that space when you are consumed with your own, what was I
Self-doubt, I suppose.
Not self-loathing.
I never got that far, but just, just being convinced you didn't belong there.
You, you just did not belong there and you were, um, and everybody didn't want you there.
Just so convinced that no one wanted you there.
That's brutal, isn't it?
But to then go out and do it successfully.
But the stage was easy.
And the audience were nice.
Just to bat the green room was the problem.
Get away from the other comedians quickly.
I mentioned a beautiful daughter, Willow, married to Daz, who's a gun TV producer in
What do you, what do you like on the home front?
I like, I'm a model wife, of course.
That's the answer I was, I was hoping for.
You think about it?
Do you think about the parent that you are?
Oh, most definitely.
I mean, I would say being a parent, would you agree with this?
As soon as you become a parent, you learn about yourself in a way that is so pure.
And if you really center.
That little person and as best you can, of course, you have to work and do all those
other things as well.
But if you're able to center your relationship and your, and when you're with them, you're
completely present.
And for me, it was about letting Willow show me who she was and is, and not imposing my
own views on her and just allowing that to kind of evolve as she learned that about herself.
You, I think you step into a version of yourself that is so powerful and so real and true.
Like, that was just the greatest gift for me.
Confronting it's I'm still, is it?
Um, I don't know.
I'm a very good mother.
And I, it's, I have to say that I, I feel like when people always say, oh, it's the
hardest thing we've ever done.
It's the hardest job in the world.
I can see how it can be for that.
Like, I do not judge that at all.
Of course it is extremely hard, but for me, it's just always felt easy.
Even in the hardest moments, it's felt easy.
What a gift that is.
Um, I mean, she's, I've only got one, you've got four, I don't, I'm not juggling three
kids under four or, you know, the way people are really in the trenches with that.
I've never had that.
It was just me and Willow and Daz, who is, you know, a unique person in himself.
That's a evil laugh at the end of, uh, at the end of the day.
No, he's amazing.
He's the greatest.
I have this saying that success leaves clues, Jo.
You know, speaking to you or someone from a sporting background or social venture, and
What does that mean?
Success leaves clues?
Someone said it to me on this podcast, this idea that there's patterns of why people are
successful and whether they're, you know, a conductor of an orchestra or a coach of
a sporting team or a standup comedian who's launched a all female radio station in incredible
There's reasons to that success.
So there's some dimensions of those sort of patterns that I wanted to ask you about.
This idea that we talk about self-leadership, but how, how do you make sure you're
feeling your best so that you can lead others in your life?
Well, I think it's really important you do a lot of therapy and, uh, I've done a lot
of therapy and I read a lot of self-help books and I've taught myself very, uh, clear non-negotiables
in my tool belt that I always turn to every day to ensure that I'm the best version of
So firstly, I've worked on my demons and the things that I know are triggers for me to
react in really not pleasant ways for people around me.
Particularly in high pressure environments.
And I've learned, you know, I journal every day, I meditate every day.
Mindfulness is my daily practice, breath work, all of those things, exercise, eating well,
probably not so much.
But I just think it's, it's, it's your responsibility to be the best version of you.
And I believe, I believe every single person in the world is doing their best, but often
people's best isn't enough for us.
So I think, well, let me not be the person in that day.
That causes someone to think, do better.
I'm like, I'm doing my best, but my best will be the best for you as well.
It's a great way to think about other people, isn't it?
And have, uh, that, and I see that in you, I see that when you're around people, you're
generally letting people, uh, have their day, have their moment.
You're not going to add to it in any way.
Is there one piece of leadership advice that you would pass on or you pass on to others
I think there's real power in vulnerability.
And I don't mean sharing.
You know, inappropriately personal things that are going to make people uncomfortable
or, um, that, uh, perhaps breaching boundaries that are needed for certain relationships,
But I think, um, there's great power in saying to someone, you know, this is important because
of all of the goals that we're trying to reach in this particular part of the business or
like really sharing the background to decisions and to whatever is on the table at that time.
And sometimes that involves also saying, I'm sorry today, I'm really tired because I've
been working really hard on this one area of the business.
So please be patient with me and it's going to take me a little while to work through
this problem or just really, I think, opening the door for other people to be vulnerable
as well in that space.
Broad radio is a, is a, is a big vision and it's something that is, as you said, your
purpose in life and it's you being the truest version of yourself.
You've then got to share that with others and bring a team on board now.
And you've got hosts of the show and salespeople and a full team.
How have you gone about sharing that vision with others in your team?
Um, lots of talking, lots of talking.
And I have got an amazing team who I just love dearly.
Every single one of them, some who have been with me from the very first moment I picked
up the phone and said, hi, you don't know me, but I'm building a radio network.
Are you interested in working with me on this?
Um, through to some people that we've hired only in the last three months.
What has been really key is being able to share with them what the vision is every step
of the way so that they, it becomes their vision and it becomes their passion as well.
We've been bootstrapping mostly.
Uh, so can't afford to pay very well.
Don't have anyone on long term, on, on full-time contracts.
Everyone's either casual or freelance or contract, even though we probably need them all to be
full-time for the workload.
But, you know, it's not, it's not the easiest place.
The work it's very intense, but everyone's so passionate about it because they see the
vision as clearly as I do and are really excited to be there.
And that's all because every step of the way we, I don't own it.
Like I consider myself to be the custodian of this.
I feel very lucky that it came to me as an idea, could have gone to anyone else, but
somehow the universe gave me this idea and I'm like, okay, well I better, you know, in
service of the idea and the audience that needs it and the women that need it, then
I will do my best to make it happen.
But I need all these people to come with me on this.
So as soon as I share it with them, I see it in them.
I see how it becomes their vision as well and how they then own, own the idea as well.
That was the same for our crowdsource funding raise.
It's the same for our supporters and our listeners and our followers on social media.
Like it all becomes sort of a part of their, what they want for the world as well.
Which is brilliant.
And no one deserves it more than you and the passion that you've, you've put in.
And I love, you know, the community.
That's building around you.
Curiosity is a word that we see a lot when I sit down.
And is there a particular rabbit hole, curiosity has taken you down in recent times that you
could share with us?
Curiosity is my superpower.
In that I consider it the answer for all, all of your great anxieties in life.
Every time I say to myself, and trust me, there have been many, many times in the last
sort of year and a half where I've gone, you know, you're in.
Oh my God, what's going to happen?
You know, I'm, I'm dramatizing it, but you know, internally you're going, oh shit, shit.
What's going to happen now?
We're in trouble here.
But if you flip that to not a question, oh my God, what's going to happen?
But more of a wonder, like what is going to happen?
This is, well, that's interesting.
That's an interesting turn of events.
And I wonder exactly how that's going to be solved.
To me, that just strips anxiety.
From that churning in your head to going, I just can't wait for the universe to solve
this problem because it will be amazing when it happens.
So wonder and curiosity is something that I love.
Well, I love the way just in tone.
I wonder what, you know, as opposed to, oh shit.
That is interesting to me.
So even in a really stressful situation and, you know, something's happening with the family
or something, can you use it then?
Well, I mean, we, um, we've had absolutely, you know, along the road, every startup will
tell you that there are times when your backs are against the wall and you're like, I don't
know how this is going to be solved.
And you, and you're really kind of digging deep and looking at all your resources.
A large part of that for me is being open to how the solutions will appear before you.
You haven't thought of it.
Often the universe decides what the solution is and it might not be the one that you had
But, um, I mean, our equity crowdsource funding race was an example of that, where I had spent
a year really exploring, um, VC world because we needed investment to scale and had had
some great conversations.
And every time I walked away from the VC conversation, it just felt, I don't know, I was having to
justify what we were doing too much.
And that's totally fair.
So for people listening, maybe, you know, venture capitalists investing in your business,
putting a big chunk of money in.
But obviously with a fair bit of control attached to that.
A fair bit of control, but also those venture capital, you know, organizations, they have
a very clear remit because of course they have investors they're looking after.
Completely fair enough.
But that then means that, you know, you're having to sort of, again, fit yourself into
a differently shaped hole to what you are perhaps.
And yes, a fair bit of control.
It was really curiosity that sort of made us go, well, what is it?
It's our greatest strength.
It's our community.
And what is a different way and everything along the way.
So what is a different way to raising money?
And that led us down the path of crowdsource funding, which is where you go to your community
and it's equity, but we have 290 investors and we raised 385,000 with those investors.
Um, so that's been really amazing because you do, you do retain quite a lot of control that way.
But the other thing is that notion of curiosity around, well, what is a
different way of building a team, an on-air team, which we, you know, you and I would
know that in radio, everything is based around that core duo so that the audience can, you
know, get really attached to Dars and Ed and Joe and Matt or Joe and Limo, right?
But we, it's not possible for us to do that because the women I wanted to work with, they've
got parenting duties or they're touring all the time, or they have a like really active,
So again, it's the curiosity of going, well, what is a different way of building a team?
That means you can work with all those people.
And why wouldn't you explore job sharing?
Why it's never been done before in Breakfast Radio that you would have a team of actually
in total, we have a team of eight people that are sharing two chairs.
Why can't you do it that way?
Let's be curious about what that's going to sound like for the sound of the show.
And what's that going to be for the audience?
Every time you have a,
a problem, the only way you can respond to it is with curiosity and just to go, okay,
Why can't you do that?
Again, comedy taught me that, that you just have to think around a problem and come up
with five, six, seven different ideas and see which one works.
Brilliant answer.
We love, I love this, this quote, the cost of leadership is time.
How do you find juggling the workloads and demands and challenges that you've got in
every other area, but still trying to foster this sort of collaborative
That you're creating it at Broad Radio?
Well, and that is tough, the collaborative side of things, because you do sometimes just
things move so quickly and you do struggle to bring people into, you know, the decision
making or, I mean, sometimes it's not appropriate.
You just got to go with it and do it.
The cost of leadership is time.
I mean, largely, I think my daughter suffers mostly from that, not the business.
She actually texted me this morning.
I was on air and Daz was at the,
She was getting herself ready for school and then he was going to go back and take her
And she texted while I was on air saying, what can I have for breakfast?
The milk has turned sour.
There's no bread, crumpets or, or muffins.
This house is empty of food, like absolute drama.
And she had a point.
It was, I had, I had not provided any kind of food for my 15th.
So I'd not had the time to do the shopping and I'd not had the time to make sure that
she had breakfast.
So the cost, the cost of leadership in that instance was my daughter's breakfast.
I mean, a lot of, a lot of guilt there, but oh well.
It's all part of, part of growing up, Jo, is how I'd describe it.
You spent your life as a great communicator and we're fascinated by that.
Have you got a mantra about how you go about your communication and all the areas that
I have plenty of mantras.
Are they around communication?
I suppose for me, I think listening is the absolute key to good communication and active
listening, I suppose.
So, which is funny because I keep forgetting what you're saying to me.
Could be a reflection on the quality of my questions here too, Jo.
I get, I get going off on time.
In my mind and then forget where we started.
But good communication starts with hearing what the person is saying and really understanding
it and looking for the signs, you know, the unspoken communication in between the words.
And that takes time and it takes, I think, mindfulness is really, really important to
that, where you're actually present with someone and you're taking the time to just breathe
and hear and be still.
And listen to them.
To me, that's the best way to communicate is to start by listening.
And in sharing your ideas, I guess, being willing to sit with the discomfort of them
That's, I kind of, I'm curious about that too.
Isn't that interesting when people disagree with you and you're like, oh, okay, let's
What, where does that lead us?
Because sometimes it can lead us to whole new ideas that you didn't even know.
We're sitting there to be had.
I feel like that art's been lost a little bit, actually, that idea and, you know, standing
on the set of House of Wellness with you, we occasionally have a different opinion,
Jo, and I love that because exactly as you said, but it feels that's harder to come.
People are so buried in their side now, they don't even want to have that curiosity to
find out what someone else thinks.
So it makes me sad.
And I think you're right.
There's a loss of nuance in understanding people and a willingness to sit with the discomfort,
of how it feels when someone disagrees with you.
I wonder if sometimes when people can't handle that discomfort, it's because they are lacking
in their own sense of self.
And so as soon as someone questions them, there's a defensiveness because they themselves
doubt themselves.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely.
That makes me sad.
Who's the greatest leader in your life, Jo?
I've seen him like back in the day when he was producing dance parties.
There's a career.
He's a PhD in engineering, isn't he, by the way?
He has got a PhD in chemical engineering, but he did for a while produce dance parties.
And I saw him convince, persuade, ask the young kids around the scene, you know, to
spend all night postering and doing all this volunteer work for him.
And that was the first time I saw him.
And that was the first time I saw him.
And since then, I see him every single, every single thing he does when he interacts with
people, he makes them feel like they're the only person in the world.
And he listens to them.
He validates them.
He cares about them.
And it doesn't matter, you know, because he produces really complicated, very big budget
It doesn't matter if you're the runner on the set or if you're the star, he treats them
exactly the same.
He talks to them so beautifully with great respect.
And he's just, he's kind, you know, and I, I really, I love, yeah, I love watching and
hearing him do what he does.
Cause I think it's really, uh, it's very special.
It's a great gift as, and I love being around people like that, that don't, uh, differentiate
no matter what the status of someone is.
And yeah, that's, uh, that's pretty special summation.
Surely he'll appreciate that.
Also, he's very funny, which helps.
So I think if you can bring humor to what you're doing, particularly in high pressure
We're a bit obsessed with this idea of collaboration and felt like Joe, people had got into their
silos in the last 30 or 40 years and bringing people out and bringing people together from
different backgrounds.
If you collaborate with anyone on anything, and I'm, I'm sure the Broad Radio Project's
front of mine, but it might be, you've got many passions.
Have you thought that's the person I'd love to collaborate with in any area of your life?
Um, I mean, you're right.
Like there's no way Broad Radio would be where it is without collaboration and, um, partnerships
are key to our success, both commercial, but content partnerships, audience partnerships.
Um, and I am attracted to people who have the same values.
You can feel that in someone, right?
So that's, I think that's how I built my life effectively.
Uh, so I would collaborate with, I mean, I'm really keen to get in, get a,
a conversation with Hello Sunshine, who are, uh, Reese Witherspoon and Sarah Harden is the,
uh, co-founder of Hello Sunshine.
They just make incredible content for women, women-led stories and have changed Hollywood
and changed what we know of, you know, there was this, this, uh, belief that women didn't
want women's stories and that women audiences were not powerful at all.
And they've proven that wrong.
Time and time and time and time and time again, that's on my whiteboard of collaborating with
them at some, at some point.
That would be, uh, worthwhile.
And I wouldn't doubt you, Jo, the universe, as you often say, might sort that one out
Congratulations on everything that you've done, particularly the most recent project,
It's an incredible achievement already.
I'll keep, uh, referencing that.
It's been great fun to spend some time with you over the past handful of years.
And thanks for joining me.
I really appreciate it.
I'm looking forward to us doing our breakfast.
So when's that going to happen?
How's that going to work?
I don't fit in Broad Radio, I don't think.
No, but I mean, I got my fingers in many pies.
That might bring me back out of retirement, potentially.
Thanks for listening to another episode of the Empowering Leaders Podcast.
Huge thanks as always to our great friends at Temper.
And we encourage you to check out our Leader Connect program.
New episodes are out every Wednesday morning at 6am.