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James Tomkins Finding The Balance To Compete Over 6 Olympiads

Brilliant to have three-time Olympic gold medalist James Tompkins as this week's guest on the podcast leading into the Paris Olympic Games.

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Published 9 days agoDuration: 1:12652 timestamps
652 timestamps
Brilliant to have three-time Olympic gold medalist James Tompkins as this week's guest on the podcast leading into the Paris Olympic Games.
You'll hear James talk about the ancient Olympic oath from a few thousand years ago and understanding life balance, academics for the brain, art for the soul.
All were about making the perfect athlete and how that wisdom still stands true today, many years later.
The incredible story of how he nearly stopped rowing an Olympic final through exhaustion despite being in front and on his way to Olympic gold
and how that gives him empathy for Sally Robbins who famously laid down in the boat in an Olympic final herself.
Fascinated by James' ability to break things down into small increments and keep refining and practising and refining until he masters them
and that's enabled him to be a near-scratch golfer, elite race car driver and virtually anything he turns his mind to.
It's people like James Tompkins who inspire the work we do at Alita.
Head to alitacollective.com.
Love you to book a discovery call.
We curate groups of five to six people from around the globe to learn and lead and connect in our Alita Connect program.
So get onto the website.
We'd love you to check it out today.
Big thanks as always to the team at Temper Bedding, a mattress like no other.
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James Tompkins OAN is a Sport Australia Hall of Fame legend for his contribution in the world of rowing.
James is one of only four people in the world to have rowed at six Olympic Games.
James competed at every Olympic Games from 1988 to 2008
and was fittingly Australia's flag bearer at the final Olympic Games he competed at in Beijing in 2008.
A seven-time World Championship gold medalist, a three-time Olympic gold medalist,
but perhaps known best as part of the awesome foursome that won world titles
in 90, 91, 98, and Olympic gold in 92 and 96.
James, it's always great to see, and it's an incredible lifetime of sporting achievement.
When you hear that back, read back to you, what are your initial thoughts?
Well, thanks, Luke, for the invitation to come on.
And yeah, it's quite, it's interesting.
I was actually just listening to that going, wow, that's quite a CV as far as the rowing is concerned.
Because, you know, life's busy and there's a whole bunch of things on
and you don't actually...
Well, rarely do I actually reflect on it.
But when you hear someone like you that's, you know, another sports person sort of read that through
and, yeah, well, it's a good career.
Better than good, I think.
Let's not be too humble about it.
I was going back through history and you're a Kerry Grammar boy
and you stroke the crew there at school in 83 and 84, or maybe 82 and 83.
And I think two years later, you're in an Australian eight at World Championships in Belgium.
A year later, you win.
Your first World Championship goal.
That is a pretty serious trajectory to success.
I mean, clearly, you're an outstanding rower as a young man.
What set you apart, James?
What were the traits that served you well?
There's a couple of things there.
One, your physiology.
Yeah, you need, I mean, you would have been a great rower.
Tall, good physiology, good engine, good athleticism.
So that's part of it.
And then, so...
That's the physical side.
Then the mental side.
Like, I was always trying to perfect things.
Well, trying to do things really well, you know, drives me crazy now.
I've just come off the golf course, played terribly.
I'll tell you, I'll be on the range tonight trying to fix it.
Your playoff is about scratch, by the way, which I want to talk about at some stage.
So there's a physical aspect.
And then the mental thing is just trying to strive, keep striving, trying to do well.
But I also...
At school,
our coach was Noel Donaldson,
who was actually, ended up being our coach in the Awesome Foursome.
So, you know, while I was at school, I had fantastic, a fantastic coach.
And, yeah, and I remember one day at school,
it was in my final year in 83,
and, you know, one of my mates came up and said,
oh, Dono reckons if you're not running for Australia in five years, there's something wrong.
And it was like the first time I'd sort of realized,
I knew I was half decent,
but that was the first time of thinking, oh, wow, you know,
maybe I can, you know, keep going.
And then you go down to Mercantile, down to the club system,
and then, you know, quickly progress through State Cruise.
And then, yeah, into that, um, that 85-8 wasn't so flash,
but then, then 86 is the one where we won.
And Koops was in that, Mike McKay was in that.
So three, so there you got myself, Mike, and Koops, three of the four.
Yeah.
And, you know, one of the Doyle brothers and yeah, it was a really good eight.
Clearly it was a really good eight.
Um.
So straight away, you're sort of with a core group of people that have,
that are also very good.
That you end up having this incredible success.
When you mentioned the physiology and you, you know, you're 6'6",
or thereabouts and naturally aerobic as a, as a, as an athlete,
but there's a technical side to the sport of rowing.
And I, I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about, but,
but that is something that you excelled at as well.
Was that again, come naturally to you or is that perfectionism of just,
I'm going to be able to put the blade in the water better?
I think, um, it's interesting, like rowing used to be,
before our time of that early or late eighties, I guess.
Yeah.
Through the eighties and nineties.
They used to get the biggest, buffiest guys and girls who couldn't play any
other sport and stick them in a boat and just pull that, but then it sort of
progressed and they got, you know, a lot of the footy players, uh, and, and
netballers and basketballers that had the sort of fine motor skills, because
it's, it's actually an, it's.
Yeah.
Yeah.
incredibly physical sport demanding on the physiology but it's also incredibly technical
like the water is such a heavy so much resistance that if you make an error the boat slows down a
lot and it takes so much energy to get that speed up again um so the skill is to keep that boat
speed not upset it and it's you know you've got an oar that's 13 feet out the side of the boat
and so any you know a one millimeter movement of your hands here is like six or seven mils out on
the end of the blade and so all that sort of stuff and then the combination with other people
so yeah it's incredibly physical as far as physiology is concerned yeah the last stroke
of the race should be the last one you can possibly take so you have to exhaust yourself
and then whilst you're smashed you've got to keep your skills up so it's it's it's a tough sport
it's a really tough sport and almost the ultimate team sport uh which my daughter
i just see that you rely on each other so much don't you one person puts a blade wrong once
over the course of that you almost guarantee the race is over for you and so to have that synergy
and and oh well you'll move on to the to the awesome foursome part and you know the historically
olympic athletes even gold medalists have struggled to to get sponsorship and and and you guys you
captured the sort of hearts of the nation uh nick green and yourself and mike mckay andrew
mentioned and
came into the to the boat um you can't talk to you with that all of us know that jingle in our
head the golden valley fruit it was just so iconic um for those that have it i'm going to play it
back to you now have a listen to this
golden valley
luscious fruits now exotic
golden valley gold the taste will drive you wild just taste those
peaches and apricots and
oranges
tell us about that time for for you guys to just have such a place in australian sporting culture
what did that mean to you well it was fantastic it was great i mean yeah you're right we were
lily white amateurs never made a cent out of it like we're paying to go and represent the country
essentially and no one knew about rowing unless you went to a school that rode but there's a there
were a couple of things one we actually didn't know about rowing but there was a couple of things
one we actually didn't know about rowing but there was a couple of things one we actually didn't know
win that many events back then so we're coming off 72 or 76 montreal 76 montreal where we got
like three bronze medals at the game so then the ais was built and then we started to ratchet up as
far as performance so i think we only won five events in barcelona so limited number of gold
medals our race was six or in australian time 6 20 sunday night and so they broke into the news
and peter landy did a fantastic call
so you know pretty much everyone in australia was watching channel 7 news and saw the race
because they broke into the life's about timing isn't it i remember it but i don't remember that
detail and so that that's prime time everyone watched the sunday night yeah exactly you
couldn't get bigger prime was that just pure luck given the overseas times yeah yeah it was 10 20
credible sunday morning over in barcelona and we'd you know we'd won the preceding two world
championships so we're expected to win so there was you know people sort of knew that we were a
and so yeah we got the job done which uh was very stressful and then i think just our
our you know this sounds sort of egotistic but our sort of knockabout personalities came out we were
all good guys and like to train hard and race hard and you know and celebrate hard as well so i think
that sort of fits in with that you know that old australian ethos of sports people of you know
trying hard and then celebrating well and um and then dressed in lycra of course you know that
australia if you look back and watch that it's a joyful time actually in australian sport in lots
of ways you guys thriving and everything like cricket and rugby and you name it and then you
guys pop up and it's got it's fruit you know you're selling tin fruit you're not and you're
singing along and it just makes you smile when you go back and look at it and the fact that we
still remember that time so fondly is incredible my mind went immediately you know you win the
world championships you've trained so hard you get to barcelona you got six minutes really
training to sit on that starting block that must have before in the boat that must have
how do you deal with that sort of performance pressure at the time can you remember it oh yeah
100 i can remember it i was a basket case seriously yeah i was used to get so nervous
and wound up like almost to the point where i didn't want to race it that's i find that you
strike me as the most relaxed calm even person well that's on the outside but the nerves would
get you that oh that battle and you know as i said we'd won the preceding two world
championships so there's no upside like if we win that's what we're supposed to do if we lose
it's another four years like we're supposed to win everyone like our opposition expected us to win
anyone that knew about rowing expected us to win but as you know you've still got you've actually
got to go out there and do it and everyone's trying as hard as they possibly can and you know
the lead in the last months leading into that race you know you're going to make the final
and you know it's just this
build up because how many chances do you get yeah you know it's like um i dare i say it having just
watched the u.s open rory with a three-foot putt or a couple of three-foot putts and all of a sudden
what is normally very easy all of a sudden becomes very hard because you're thinking about
do i get this chance again when's the next chance i'm going to be sitting on the start line of
olympic final with some of the best mates and the best rowers in the world all in one crew
ready to roll when's that going to happen again
your teammates calm you down well we're all we're all pretty similar i remember we um yeah the night
before you're trying to get to sleep and so you turn the light back on and pick up a book and
yes honestly if you could read one sentence without thinking about the race like it's on
your mind the whole time and then you know wake up the next morning it's not this you beauty here
we go it's just this sense of dread that at 10 20 the executioner is going to drop the axe
and uh you know at 10 25 and a half someone's going to be olympic champion and you're supposed
to be it but you got and then we got on the water i do remember distinctly we got on the water and
we hadn't had a bad row for three and a half years and the warm-up was atrocious and mike had the
presence of mind to say listen let's just calm down and just stop and gather our thoughts a little
bit it didn't work the rain was still atrocious we're going oh my god we're gonna blow it at the
last minute
yeah but as soon as the starter says go all of that just goes out of your mind and you're just
into automatic mode and all the hours and hours of preparation just switch in and as opposed to
the warm-up the race was phenomenal absolutely phenomenal i love burnout to share that because
you know most people like me i assume you know having spent some time you go you turn up you're
so calm you knew what you're going to do and away you went and you win gold because we experience
that in life in everything don't everyone has a bit of imposter syndrome everyone has
soft out even with all the hours and winning world championships it's it's a natural thing
but you can overcome it and have you have you seen that in other areas of your life as you've
got on that you've been able to in that extreme pressure has it served you well yeah oh yeah
absolutely yeah i mean you do it once you do it a couple of times and then okay well
and then you try and convince yourself you only get nervous when you've got a chance to win
and that it's just an indication of the body getting ready for a massive effort
and try and convince yourself that you've got a chance to win and that you've got a chance to win
to embrace that but it's like as soon as you understand that it's like okay well this is
normal and it's good that i'm nervous that means we've got a chance it's good that my body's getting
ready for one massive effort and then it's just a case of um yeah and then you try and
sidetrack your mind and you know we had this mantra process equals outcome just concentrate
on what we had to do when we had to do it and let the outcome take care of itself as said because
the outcome rory three foot putt the outcome as opposed to take the putter back hit the ball
square you know it's um process process process yeah goal kicking in afl football is not improved
because you get fixated on this is my moment yeah you start thinking differently if i miss this you
know the little man jumps on your shoulder and it happens to to everyone in sport again my mind was
going there james to i consider this a sporting tragedy what happened to sally robbins in in
2004 for those that don't remember to be an olympic final in the ultimate team sport hits exhaustion
and has to lay down in the boat and you can just see the devastation of her teammates their four
years of preparation and and can you sort of relate can you understand that and how did you
feel in the rowing community for her because your heart broke through it really yeah look it was
tough because drew and i had actually so that was athens 2004 yeah and drew and i'd actually we'd
with wives and parents watching those finals and it happens yeah maybe not people stopping but
actually in our in our semi-final uh or the semi-final for the pair the canadians the one of
the one of the guys in the canadian pair was absolutely smashed and he didn't lie down but
he essentially stopped like he wasn't putting any effort in the the boat came out of the lane
hit another boat automatic disqualification so it does happen and
sally she was physically one of the best girls technically one of the best girls in the crew
but there was just something that she couldn't manage her effort all the way down the track
like it's a six as you said it's a six minute race so you can't go flat out for six minutes
so you're sort of 97 98 but you have to manage that yeah and for whatever reason she couldn't
do it you know there was a so the girls were then and the guys were the next race and the guys had
a
really good the girls not so much of a chance of getting a medal but the guys had a really good
chance of you know they ended up getting a silver medal i think from memory silver or bronze but
definitely had a really good chance so everyone sort of got that's a shame with the girls switched
on to the guys and the girls were left to their own devices and came into the pontoon and then
the media scrum just got a hold of it and it's brutal the poor girl yeah it's brutal and as
you're saying it's a it's a percentage here a percentage there and everyone's
as a kid run a 400 and literally hit the wall with you the i used to say the grilla jumps on
your back and you cannot run no matter what your mind's trying to tell you to do so you're managing
even at the elite of the elite it's possible that an olympic final it's it's you have to just get
that right or it could go horribly wrong even for someone like you is that possible absolutely in
fact you've just reminded me so in our race so the day before we're in front in the olympic final
and in a pair in the pair and drew is calling the race plan and i got a bit angry with him because
he kept on calling to push and we'd push a little bit and we could move away and i thought
we've got this like we can do this anytime and then he's going no no no let's keep going so i
thought right okay you're in trouble now i'm going for it and sort of really locked in like this is
um in olympic final this is yeah are you giving him feedback at the time or is it just you listen
to his call when you go listen to his call yeah and i thought okay you want to go we're going
and i sort of nailed we nailed it was fantastic rowing for about 500 meters in the middle of the
race you know pushed out ahead of everyone else and then i sort of like like fully in the zone
and then just snapped out of it with 600 meters to go and i was absolutely exhausted i thought i
was going to stop seriously like i was completely out and then drew realized and he just talked me
through it he goes breathe relax
breathe and all that training of the skills came into it and was able to get through another 300
meters which takes you to 300 to go and then you sort of know you can hang on so he picked he
picked it did he yeah yeah and i i was we're leading the olympic final and i thought i was
going to stop i thought i wasn't going to be able to finish the race because it's such as he said
it's such a fine line and that's the beauty of sport yeah you're right on that knife's edge and
it can go one of that one of two ways that puts it into into some serious context yeah post your
you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're
athletic uh career which was extraordinary you've been international olympic delegate which
is incredibly prestigious role and i know you're a great historian in olympics and the modern
olympics started in 1896 but if you look at history the ancient greeks were doing this for
1300 plus years prior to that and do you look now we're heading into the paris olympics in 2024 and
we've got wars going on in ukraine and horrific stuff happening in the middle do you still feel
that the olympics in bringing the world together has a special role to play yes yeah i do
i do on a couple of fronts one yeah the the olympic village is the example to the rest of
the world of what is possible you've got every race color creed religion in there and because
of something and in this case it's sport just bringing everyone together and it doesn't matter
christian muslim black white you know whatever ukraine well maybe the ukraine russian thing
might be a bit of tension but um uh you know because of something it brings that whole world
together and it's it's a fantastic example and i do think that there is a lot to learn from the
history of the games um if ever you get the chance luke the olympic charter is fantastic
and there's a notion of olympism and it's the joy of sport that everyone should be able to
participate in but it's also striving and
leading a balanced life of mind body and soul so academics for the mind athletics for the body
and arts for the soul and this all came out from the games in antiquity you know
what is it two and a half thousand years ago 776 bc was the first games and long-winded answer but
back then when you died the only way you would ascend to the gods was if you'd led a balanced
life a little bit of those three components and you look at the way we live now and we're so
fixated on one aspect and it might be sport like i'm a footy player i'm around that's all i do and
i don't do you know i don't have any context or anything else in my life and so i think there's a
lot to learn in all of us trying to lead a balanced life and it's not a third a third a third
and it'll float around but i think it's really important to have other things in your life if
you're working learn a language
or an instrument or do an event where you actually need to train for it not like a 2k
fun run but something where you've actually got to put some time into it and i think having other
things in your life and having having that balance is really really important so and that was a
couple thousand years ago the greek philosophers were onto this i find that i you know i have
heard the olympic charter but not quite described the way that you did and and look i find that
isn't that amazing that that thousands of years ago understood balance and yeah i look
at you as a sort of perfect example of that but you won olympic gold but you worked all the way
through you did a commerce degree yeah you train family and yeah you train when you needed to train
but you always seem to live a balanced life and you do other stuff you'd see you out riding the
bike and doing so we've crossed over at junior sport a few times and as you said that has become
this arms race around at all other costs don't get me started well you get we're going to do
another two hours on this too and i and i just see kids stressed out kids
not getting balance in life because parents have decided sport is the path for family success now
and does it does it blow you away how crazy that's got yeah yeah yeah absolutely i mean the you know
you you play sport and the important word is play you know for kids it is playing yeah you don't do
sport to be really good you do sport to fuck around with your friends yeah kick a footy around
or row a boat or play basketball you do it to be with your friends and have
fun doing it and if you end up being good great byproduct but that's not why you actually do it
it's just it's like the olympic village sport brings everyone together you know sport brings
people together and go and play footy with you know 20 other guys or girls and and have a great
time yeah it does my head in school sport like it's so serious now and it is like an arms race
in some of the sports whilst trying to do vce whilst going through puberty working out there
a lot in life and their friend group friendship groups
and and then you're training like an olympic athlete you know same sort of training volumes
whilst doing all of that other stuff it's it's there's all i reckon
without going over the top i reckon the schools have almost um you know they're negligent in
their duty of care to the kids in some instances where they are so stressed out when selection
trials are on yeah you know trying to make a crew or trying to make a footy team or a netball team
you know they're stressed because of it it's supposed it's supposed to be the panacea it's
not trying to create stress it's trying sports should be taking stress away and that that joy
of you know my favorite day of the week was sunday because you're going to go and play with
your mates and yeah you know there was never parents hanging over the sidelines and screaming
out or i think they were too busy doing other things they dropped you off when certainly my
instance i can't remember dad ever coming to and he played the game but it was like going to fun
you know like i'm not
counting your stats or oh no worried about well the trip home in the car well it's you know the
full debrief well there's a great study jame i i called the conversation in the car in america
though and i'll get this slightly wrong but they did the study a guy around 16 year old and the
drop off in sport in the u.s is catastrophic and the effect for particularly young girls at that
age who drop out of sport three quarters of them don't ever play team sport again and young males
are dropping out of sport at a high rate and he puts it down to what he calls a conversation the
fact is that kids just love playing if you leave them to their devices yeah they like to win but
they don't really care you know like afterwards they'll get over it a second and oh yeah and you
know move on and grab a hot dog or whatever they they want post uh post game but they get in the
car and dad often mom sometimes just starts to analyze why don't you play more like james
tonkins why don't you go harder there yeah and the joy of sport evaporates immediately because
they feel this judgment and pressure from their parents and so the guy's exactly he just says all
you need to say to kids i'm going to play a game i'm going to play a game i'm going to play a game
i love watching you play nothing else i've heard i've heard nothing and i used to i used to be a
little bit you know maybe you should have rebounded more and then i i actually heard that and now it's
just hey i love watching you play sport and you just see the faces oh wow yeah and now you know
my eldest she's or they're all all the girls are playing basketball but um you know jess is she's
at a college over in the states she's home at the moment but she plays over there and and for her to
know that we're watching online
she's going i love it that you guys are watching you know and so it's just that
if you're a parent just watch your kids play sport tell me that you love watching them play sport and
they'll just absolutely thrive from someone who's won three olympic golds it's uh it's the message
isn't it you just they don't want to hear anything else and and i love it now i did so i'm going to
come back to you because you're one of those annoying people james let's be honest with you
that you take up golf and you play it close to scratch you're driving the celebrity car race
and you blow everyone away twice twice because they don't because they don't know what they're
they wouldn't allow you back a third time because you dominated so much you go and ride
canoe boats from one hawaiian island to another uh you you nearly played afl football with the
melbourne footy club but you went down the rowing path so what is it in you when you take something
up you seem to get a hold of it and do it an elite level what's what's the skill to that
um well i well i love sport for starters i love playing sport and i i
i know i just like doing it well i think i i think i find it easy to copy so golf or tennis like you
know you you can rogers forehand i don't know i just seem to be able to look at it yeah i so that's
the way you do it like it always it does it does my head in on the golf course you see these people
got these weird funky swings have they ever seen a guy or a girl on the lpga or pga do that
like just copy what tiger does for goodness sake
be half decent if you do that i need some counseling mate on on on my golf uh whole
performance because i i lose my mind but i don't play it but i expect to play well which is which
is probably half the problems no no my no on a serious note i remember my parents were saying
when and this is a long time ago when jimmy connors was playing tennis and you're sort of one of the
first ones to sort of really hit with top spin and mum we were living in country victoria and mum and
saying that um i think they've said enough now that i seem to remember but um that i having
watched him play like i was i don't know five or six or something you know i got my tennis racket
and went out against the garage door and spent two hours until i could hit a top spin and just
sort of worked it out for myself so i think that was sort of an inkling of down the track okay if
i'm going to do this i want to do it well and what are the best people do and okay they're
probably doing something right and i'll try and and you can break it down in your mind
Oh, golf's a complex game that unravels a lot of people.
Yeah, well, I got unraveled this morning, let me tell you.
You told me that the first thing you said when you came in.
But you'll go out in the range then and work it out.
So you'll put the time in because you're not going to settle
for not being good at it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we used to do that in the boat.
So there's four of us in the boat and we'd have a team meeting
after each session and it would be, you know,
it would only be a five-minute meeting because I hate meetings.
Five-minute meeting.
And everyone, so I would, we'd go around individually
what we're working on and where we are along that.
So James, here you're going, oh, my back turn's still not quite right,
but I'm trying to do this.
That's why it's probably a little uncomfortable for everyone else.
And everyone goes, oh, that makes sense, okay.
And then what are we working on as a team?
So the crew goals and crew improvement and then individual improvement
within that.
So everyone knows what I'm working on and understand
why it might.
It might not be quite 100%, but, you know,
they trust that I'm going to work through it.
And you do that with, and the other guys are doing the same.
And so it's just that mentality of just constant improvement
and constant evolution, I guess.
I love how pragmatic you are, James.
You retired on your 45th birthday and in a gruelling sport like that,
you can see why I'm watching teenage girls burn out because of training
at 16 or 17.
But you had that perfect build-up and Olympic cycle was four years.
And you just seemed, you know, the Olympic ethos, wasn't it?
You'd take your time off.
Yeah, we'd take a year off after every Olympics.
Full year off.
Full year.
Not jump in a boat.
Not jump in a boat.
Go and do, you know, we're staying active.
We're doing, playing footy.
Ride your bike.
Ride your bike, go surfing, you know, running and stuff.
But then you're fresh.
Fresh to go again.
You're keen to get back on the border and re-engage with it again.
And, you know, we talked to the swimmers and they were so scared of missing a
session.
Because they'd say, oh, we'd lose the feel of the water.
It's like, you're bloody world's best swimmer.
You're not going to lose that skill overnight.
Like just take a break.
And, uh, but I think that, and that's being brave to back yourself and, um,
again, balance, you know, if I wouldn't have gone six Olympiads, if I'd gone all
the way through, no way.
Yeah.
So taking those breaks along the way and resetting and refreshing, ready to go
again.
It's great.
Lesson in, uh, longevity and, and life balance.
And I love hearing about it.
We have the term that someone said in this podcast to me, James, success leaves
clues.
And we've seen these different dimensions of leadership that show up in different
people.
And I fascinated to hear your thoughts on this.
We hard to lead anyone else.
We feel without this idea of self-leadership and leading yourself.
What does self-leadership mean to you?
My motivation was purely individual in that I was challenging myself to get
better and then in the crew environment, you know, if everyone's doing similar,
then that's, that's a good result, but I think self-leadership, well, I've never
actually heard of the term before, but I'm guessing it's, uh, yeah, that I love
that, that Buddhist approach of constant improvement, constant evolution, like
every day, just get a little bit better.
That's something.
And I think that's, that's my self-leadership.
I think it's, yeah, that's a great answer.
And I, and I'm not surprised that.
That for you.
And is that, is that still this chapter of your life?
Is there still that constant never ending self-improvement?
Do you, yeah, I mean, obviously, uh, you know, and I think a good thing is once
you hit 40 or 45, you reset your PBS to zero.
So that's important because what you're doing at 25 on a bike, for example, is
not the same as 45 or 55, so just reset your PBS every year, back to zero.
Um, but yeah, just trying to, yeah, still just trying to.
This is that didn't play well this morning.
I'd love to get on the range of Sava or just not out there.
And that's the genius, isn't it?
But, uh, but then, yes, but then, uh, yeah.
And, but then I think broad or you'll probably get onto more broadly leadership,
but I think, yeah, you know, um, why did Kelly Slater surf for as long as he did
or Rafa and Roger and Novak, you know, it's not, it's not the money for those guys.
It's just.
Constant improvement.
I mean, know that he was, when he started, he was pretty ordinary.
Roger certainly didn't rate him, but then he worked and worked and worked and he
worked on his, on his demeanor around court and he stopped giving up during matches.
And now he's just, you know, he's a great example of evolution and he understood
his weaknesses and worked on them and he's still, he doesn't need the money.
Um, and he's just trying to be as good as he possibly can.
And if he does that, he keeps on racking up the majors.
So it's the, the majors.
Prize money are a byproduct.
Of personal improvement.
Wanting to be the best you can.
No matter what, you forget that history, don't you know that literally would almost quit mid
tournament and had a horrible reputation and then became impenetrable didn't he with self
improvement and self leadership.
And then we see people really conscious in every environment they're in how they positively
impact others in their environment.
You, as I said, the ultimate team sport, were you conscious of that.
Have you been conscious of that?
In the last.
Year.
life of your impact on others yes uh well not all the way through but um yeah i'm a pretty positive
person i think uh you know rowing is the ultimate team sport i mean in footy or netball you can have
people out on the wings that aren't having a great game and the team can still win but that
that can't happen in the boat um and we got to the point i guess you know over such a long career
you we were probably doing things or i was probably doing things that didn't realize what
we were what it was but then toward the back end of your career you realize oh wow that's actually
really good behaviors and you're luckily doing the right thing and i think i can describe it
uh by saying that you know when we finished up my so rowing with drew in athens
my goal in in rowing
with him was to row in such a way that allowed him to perform at his best
so zero self-interest like i could sit in the boat and row as hard as i possibly could and
you know tear the side of the boat off and make it so uncomfortable for him that he couldn't
perform his best but if i go how can i run such a way that allows him to absolutely nail it and
if he reciprocates yeah i mean that is the ultimate team and that is the ultimate in selflessness
i think that's the ultimate
in leadership take the ego away take the self-interest away of your next promotion
what can i do to help my team absolutely thrive yeah and if they thrive you know again
the byproduct is i'll probably get that promotion instead of worrying about the promotion you go
get your team absolutely up and thriving and did you enjoy that as much as any time in sport where
the two of you are genuinely yeah yeah focused on each other's best interest yeah and i guess
it goes back to i was describing our team meetings in the four where um you know everyone is open and
honest and saying i'm really struggling with my front turn for example and then one of the
eyes goes oh if i did this does that make it any better yeah that's fantastic so all of a sudden
you got people working with other people to help them with their deficiencies or enhance their
strengths and once you get that dynamic then you're up and up you would
you know in the footy clubs it's instead of drilling someone with the ball just put it
softly out in front of them make it easy for them to catch the thing yeah you know they'll give a
little block here and there help the midfielders get through um it's just what can you do to help
your teammates thrive you don't win you know multiple world championships and olympic gold
medals for fun like you did without having a really clear vision of what you want to achieve
how did you go about you know as you said as an individual in a boat of four or eight or in a
as you ended up with drew how did you go about sharing that vision or creating that vision
together um well i think it's a taken it's a sorry it's a given that yeah you're trying to
go as well as you possibly can and and we did move away from winning or a time or a number of
strokes into yeah 96 it really clicked where we because we we got we all get so
wound up concentrating on the bloody end result that we thought no no get the processes right
and if we do that nine times out of ten the outcome takes care of itself but also
it was trying to win um but doing it with your best possible performance in the final
and as soon as you move away so you got sort of two goals there one to to win but one best
performance and as soon as you get away from performance i'm sorry the end goal of winning
and start concentrating on your best performance that changes the um the dynamic a lot and changes
the time frame one is 12 months away and 2 000 meters down the track and the other one is what
am i doing today that's going to allow that to happen yeah exactly yeah and so winning but
winning well yeah and so that became um and that focus the anxiety
of then you know olympic gold or bust becomes not such a big thing because you
hey if we row our absolute best yeah we're going to be around the mark yeah and that's what we can
do anyway exactly if we get beaten well yeah it must be phenomenal someone's done something better
yeah um makes a lot of sense we see people who have success like you and lead others are really
curious and curiosity shows up through that constant self-improvement are you curious i am
to a certain extent what do you mean by that
uh well i i i like to um i like to yeah i'm curious yeah because i get into the nitty-gritty
of it but i also like um i like a plan so a training plan this is what we've got to do
and so okay i'll go and do that as well as i can and there'll be a lot of discussion around what
that plan that training program is and a lot of questioning
of the coaches why are we doing it uh which i think is really healthy because if they don't
know they go and research it and work out oh that's right or wrong so yeah i guess curious
questioning you know i'll always question but when i'm when i know that it's 100 right then
i mean then all in yeah fascinating answer communicating with with clarity is another
dimension we see regularly that people are really consistent in how they in team environments or to
have success how they communicate was that something that you were talking about
you gave thought to or uh well not again not really not really because it was just i mean
you've got to remember like through yeah and it is different to the workplace so in at that level
like everyone is fully committed whereas some people you know at work they're just you know
going to get along or you know and catch up with friends and get paid for it and do some work
and there's a i want to be the ceo and you know
within five years so there's different mental different motivations and and and application
at work whereas at that level in sport like pretty much everyone's similar mindset of all
trying to strive and and do you know super super well so you've got that already and then it's just
a matter of yeah a lot of it is people management you know and certainly the four of us we had some
pretty strong all of us strong personalities and all quite different
so there has to be a level of trust that you know the way you prepare for an event is probably
different to the way i do but the way you do it that's what works for you and the way i do it's
what so we've got to trust one another in that regard and and sometimes you know there's it was
not plain sailing the whole time definitely and but in that environment you've got the right to
call someone out because it's shared success or shared failure and so what you do is you've got to
do affects how i go so i've got the right to call that out just as as much as as you do so it's that
just that honesty as long as it's done in a really respectful way as long as it's done with the view
of getting that result of having your best performance in the final did you ever get that
wrong uh yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely and it's hard like you know it's such a
pressure situation and especially when you're in a situation like this where you've got to
when you're overseas and you're you know european hotels you're rooming with your crewmate three
feet away and you're training together you're sleeping in the same room breakfast lunch and
dinner like 24 hours a day you're with this person or with your crewmates for a couple of months
yeah pushing hard yeah that's and as it builds up you know um yeah i mean yeah
before the 96 final i think it was drew and mike nearly came to blows over because drew was set on
the was on the massage table for five minutes too long or something rather yeah and this is the night
before the final it's sort of like you know everyone's on tenderhooks like knife's edge
sort of stuff i can relate to that how important was collaboration for you in in your success
oh huge i yeah i i i love being involved in teams and being around people
and uh and yeah that's shared and i i i do really feel very lucky to have had success in a team
so i can ring up drew or greeny and or mike and when we get together and we've got that shared
experience whereas an individual athlete yeah obviously you know if they're successful it's
phenomenal but they're the only ones that knows what they've been through and what it was really
like and so you know they don't have you go down to pas and have a few beers with your crew
to talk about the good old days the swim up they only talk to themselves about the good old days
and they're the only ones that actually know what they've been through so i feel really lucky to
you know and they're some of the best mates now beautiful uh lifelong history isn't it that team
success and um what a magic thing when you guys get together who's been the greatest leader in
your life oh uh
well i mean the easy one is my parents only through example which and you would know um
you put you know you find that you end up doing very similar things to what your parents did when
you're a child with the stuff that works so i guess that is a form of leadership of taking
from the past and what worked and what didn't work and and applying it in the sporting sense
i think dono was uh our coach noel donaldson was
phenomenal leader in that he understood the personalities of the four of us
really well and knew what worked for each individual what didn't and how to get us up and
going and yeah technically very good training program very good but you know using um outside
resources to help but then that people management and you know him being so like
yeah it was almost like a little bit of a thing but i think that's the thing that i think is
like our mother like he was doing everything for us basically which was great but he was yeah he was
giving up him of himself to allow us to absolutely thrive and create an environment where we could
and i think that's that's true leadership and so to have him involved when i was at school and then
through that period in the fours you know from 90 from 1990 through to 2000 um yeah was uh was was
pretty special that someone to literally dedicate their life to the success you know not many people
talk about noel donaldson and the awesome foursome do they but no it's uh it's your success yeah
absolutely you know that he helped create it so i love uh celebrating that and calling that out
we're a bit obsessed with collaboration in the space we are the leader and bringing together
people from different backgrounds and different thought processes there's been someone you've
got a range of different passions clearly your olympic success is is a standout but we just heard
your life because there's been someone you thought god i'd love to spend some time and
collaborate with that on any one of your passions whether it be rowing or otherwise
oh lots of people fortunately i've actually met a lot of people that are really probably got to do
it yeah is there one that springs to mind is there one yeah well i got to know mark weber really well
and yeah i do love my motorsport as well and and we both met before we he was still racing
formula fords over in europe and i was hadn't won
an olympic medal yet and so we met quite early on but we hit it off straight away and so
you know to see how he operates and in fact learned from him as well uh there was one
after or one of the years 2003 i think it was um where he actually said to us he goes like you guys
get yourselves as fit as you possibly can but you know when they go away for a testing weekend when
he was driving they would look for three or four areas of the car to improve and it might mean a
like but that's a big margin for them yeah and yeah that just saying that hit home that yeah we'd
been using the same wars same style of wars for the last 10 years and just assumed that it was
right and so we went in and tested absolutely everything to make sure that and there were some
things we changed most of the things we were on the right path but there were some that we were
actually tweaked so learning from other people from different backgrounds but everyone's trying
to do the same thing yeah what can i do
both individually and my equipment to get the best performance when the flag drops i'm sitting
alongside a six-time olympian who won three olympic gold medals and had extraordinary olympic
careers there a favorite olympic moment well uh fortunately there's been a few but um i'm not
any real favorite i mean obviously the success that we had with your best mates was was really
incredible i came with a rowing team that was really strong guys and girls and then involved
in the broader australian team which was you know on the rise and sort of peaked in sydney
that was fantastic but actually one of the highlights luke was in 1988 when the rowing
finished the rowing finishes in the first week so you got the second week to go and watch the
sports and um well you used to be able to uh and we went to the track and field and we're sitting
in front of the pole vault gym
jump or the pole vault area and sergey bubka was the number one pole vaulter and he'd broken the
i think he got like you know cash bonuses every time he broke the world record so he used to only
break it by a second he'd clear it by 20 centimeters but he'd only break it by one
centimeter by one centimeter and get my bonus get my bonus anyway he uh in the pole vault final his
favorite you know you you can pass you don't have to jump so he passed and passed and passed
until there was only three jumpers left he still hadn't jumped the two other guys
jump jump jumped and missed and so he's still in the competition having not taken a jump having
not taken a jump and he missed his first two so everyone else is out wow and it came down
current world record holder legendary legendary okay and it came down to that last jump
and we were sitting there before we were in an
event then but a whole bunch of us there laurie lawrence was there as well and we're all just
going oh my like this is coming down to the moment you can't get more pressure and he nailed it and
jumped it and i've subsequently met him but he's an isc member as well and i've met him and i've
talked to him about it and just to hear his side of things you know he's standing at the top of the
runways he's going come on the the real sergey hasn't turned up yet we we need him now he's
talking third person sort of stuff and he's like i'm not going to jump the pole vault
it's time to do it and he goes i've absolutely nailed it and uh to see that and then to have
met him you know 20 years down the track or more um and to talk about it with him was um so that
yeah that's that experience was right up there just to see that up close and personal what a
what a great story what's the legendary surrogate book like in person it's fantastic yeah he's great
loves his sport still super active does his calisthenics every morning he's um like a cat
off the floor you know he can jump from the floor to
still yeah he's like i don't know how old he's 65 or wow yeah took that sport to a whole new level
james it's an incredible life story and i i'm always curious to to hear more about it thanks
for joining us as we head into the paris olympics it's great to to relive one of the great ever
olympic careers and appreciate you joining me thanks so much luke thanks for listening to
another episode of the empowering leaders podcast huge thanks as always to our great friends at
temper and we encourage you to check out our leader connect program new episodes are out
every wednesday morning at 6 00 a.m
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