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Hugh Van Cuylenburg The Resilience Guy Breathwork Treadmill Journal Even When It Wasnt Working

And I said it and then just covered my mouth and went,

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Published 9 days agoDuration: 2:594759 timestamps
4759 timestamps
I said, I'm totally and utterly broken.
And I said it and then just covered my mouth and went,
oh shit, what have I just done?
I'm the resilience guy.
I shouldn't have said that.
They're a comedy show.
They went, oh, okay.
Good stuff, mate.
Well, have a good day.
Chat to you soon.
And they were gone.
This week's guest on the Empowering Ladies podcast
is the remarkable Hugh van Kylenburg,
the founder of the Resilience Project
and the Imperfects podcast.
So Harvey not feeling good.
Fuck doing a virtue journal.
I have a beer.
Like who's in control of, like who's controlling you?
Who is in control?
Hear Hugh talk about Billy Slater,
legendary state of origin superstar in the NRL
from Queensland as being the best leader
that he has ever seen.
Billy put his hands up five minutes in and he goes,
hey mate, this is fucking awesome.
Keep going.
He tells the incredible story of approaching
Ryan Shelton in a cafe, having never met him before
and leading to this great collaboration
on the Imperfects podcast.
Saw Ryan, I didn't want to annoy him.
I wanted to say, hey, you have had a massive impact on me
and I just want to say thank you.
I got so nervous.
I went to the cafe and I was,
it was the most uncool thing I've ever done,
but I sat down next to him and pretended I hadn't seen him
and went, oh, Ryan Shelton.
You get Hugh's take on what it really means
to be happy in life.
I used to say this from a place of privilege,
which was, I was just so happy, no problems in my life.
Life was great.
Come on guys, do this stuff, it really helps.
I'm now saying it from a place of,
life's pretty tough at the moment
and I know this stuff is going to get me through.
What does that mean to you, self-leadership?
I have thought about this
because I hear the term come up a bit.
I reckon the more time I have off,
the better leader I am, I think.
So I've got in my calendar, Hugh not available
in these big chunks.
It's not, I'm being lazy.
It's because I've burnt out 2019, 2020, 2020.
I burnt out three years in a row.
I got to November and I was really unwell.
When you go so hard like that,
you're not the only one who suffers.
We're lucky enough to have Hugh
as part of our Alita Connect program.
Head to alitacollective.com to check it out.
We love the group that Hugh van Kylenburg is in
in Alita Connect.
Dr. Troy Flanagan from the Milwaukee Bucks.
Amit Baines from the Western Bulldogs as a CEO.
Vanessa Ford, Tyson Ballard.
And you hear Hugh's take on why
the learning and sharing
and empowering is so important.
It's something he really values.
Big thanks as always to Jason Nicholas
and his team from Tempered Bedding
for their ongoing support of conversations
like this one with Hugh van Kylenburg.
Have a look at Tempered Bedding,
a mattress like no other.
Hugh van Kylenburg had been working
in education settings for over 15 years,
teaching both primary and secondary
in a range of different educational settings.
The highlight of his teaching career
was the year he spent in Far North of India,
volunteering and living at an underprivileged school
in the Himalayas.
It was here that he discovered resilience
in its purest form.
Inspired by the experience,
Hugh returned to Melbourne
and commenced working on his own programs for schools.
The Resilience Project was born.
Having completed his postgraduate studies
looking at resilience and wellbeing,
Hugh has developed and facilitated programs
for over 900 schools Australia-wide.
In 2015, the National Rugby League
asked Hugh to run workshops
at every club in the competition.
Since then, he's worked with the Australian cricket team,
the Australian netball team,
the Australian women's soccer team
and more than 10 AFL footy teams.
Beyond the team environment,
Hugh has worked one-on-one with the team,
and he's worked with the team,
and he's worked with the team,
and he's worked with the team,
with individuals the likes of Steve Smith,
Dustin Martin and Billy Slater,
to name a few.
And in addition to his work in schools and elite sport,
Hugh has presented to over 500 corporate groups
as a keynote speaker
and developed comprehensive programs
for a range of workplaces
across different sectors.
He's a best-selling author
and co-host of the incredible podcast,
The Imperfects.
Great to see you, mate.
I was really admiring your...
With the podcast I do,
I have to do the introductions
and the amount of editing we do
to make me not sound like a moron who can't read.
I'm very impressed.
I'm very impressed with that.
Until I couldn't say Imperfects.
It was the second last word.
I'm usually the third word.
I'm like, okay, guys, let's start again.
We'll do a quick edit here.
Well, maybe there was some synergy in there,
because you celebrate people being Imperfectly Perfect,
so it wouldn't have been right to get that out.
Wow.
Yeah, I don't know.
Stumbling on the word Imperfects is quite ironic.
There's a bit of something in that, I'm sure.
Yeah.
More than 500,000 kids and countless adults
have benefited from the work that you do
in teaching people to be grateful
and empathetic and mindful.
Must make you proud.
It does.
I mean, I think it was 2011 I did my first talk in a school,
and it went really badly.
It was terrible.
And I remember, because I just wanted to do one-hour talks.
I love doing public speaking, and I love working with kids,
and my interest is mental health and education.
This is perfect.
And the school said,
oh, we would like you to run like a whole-day program.
And I said, I've only really got an hour's worth of material.
And I said, well, if you want the opportunity,
it's going to have to be six hours.
So I went away and thought,
right, what's a six-hour talk I can do?
And put this talk together for year sevens.
No, no, year eights,
which is if anyone's worked in secondary schools,
year eights is probably the most challenging group you'll work with.
It was a state school,
and it was out of control when I walked in there.
And it was awful.
It was just, I hated it.
And I did such a bad job.
And there was one point,
I knew Daniel Jackson, who played footy for Richmond.
I got him to come in as a guest speaker.
Very articulate, very intelligent man.
And he was probably at the height of his career.
And I said to them early on,
Daniel Jackson's coming.
Daniel Jackson's coming.
He's coming to Richmond Football Club.
And they all just went berserk with either booing or cheering.
And I couldn't get them back.
I couldn't get them back.
It was like five minutes.
And I was looking at the teachers as if I wanted support from them.
They're looking at me like kind of going,
no, you're charging money to be here.
You can deal with this.
No one helped.
And I just,
so the fact it's gone from that to now,
I think we have,
I think it's a thousand partnership schools.
So a partnership school does our curriculum
and has all the digital content sent to them throughout the year.
And they're with us for quite a few years,
well, for many years really.
So to get to that,
to this now in what,
it doesn't feel like it's been overnight.
It's just been so much hard work.
I don't know if proud's a word,
but no,
I think it is.
Yeah,
I do feel really proud.
I do feel really proud.
And I'm very proud to be here today as well.
But I went to,
I listened to this podcast
and this is not the question that you asked me,
but I'm going to say it anyway.
I love this podcast.
There's some great stories.
And my favorite episode would be with Richard Oppie.
I went to school with Ops.
He was a year above me.
And one of the things that he said,
which I think about all the time,
he spoke about on this podcast,
he spoke about,
being aware of the energy that you bring into a room.
And I just took that very literally to my family,
to when I get up in the morning,
no matter what I'm feeling,
be aware of the energy you bring into the room.
And I love that.
And it actually reminded me of,
so Richard Oppie,
my first day of high school in year seven,
Richard Oppie was brought back as the year eight leader
to give a speech on what school's like,
what high school's like.
And he said something,
which I take into this,
I still practice every day.
He said,
his last thing was his big speech
and his closing line was,
and always pack your bag the night before.
And I have done it every day since.
Actually, Richard Oppie,
back in 1993.
Well, mate,
that is a brilliant story
and very kind of you to share.
And for those that don't know,
Richard went to Kerry Grammer a year above you
and has had this trajectory in life
that's quite ridiculous.
Maybe got the biggest marketing job in the world.
As far as I can tell,
he's like the CEO of beer.
That's what,
I don't know exactly what the position is,
but.
And we all dreamed of that as kids,
let's be honest with you.
Every time I pop up,
he's with David Beckham or Lionel Messi
or basically Budweiser around the globe.
It's just incredible.
I do.
I do wonder how easy of a job that is though,
like having to market beer.
I don't think it needs any marketing.
I think it's pretty popular.
I think his sales budget's something like $30 billion.
So you need to sell a few,
a few Coronas and a few Budweisers to achieve that.
But I love the fact that they promote young people
in that organisation
and they saw this talented young guy in Australia
and said,
he's got something special.
He's doing something differently
and they back in young people.
His age to have that role was almost unheard of.
And I also love,
it's what I think is brilliant about the shared economy.
And I will talk,
I'll talk about the imperfects,
but if you pick up something
and that you generally apply to your life,
that is a piece of gold to me,
isn't it?
And sometimes it is something,
pack your bag the night before
is just something that works for you,
isn't it?
It's small stuff.
It's even something else that,
I'm not going to make this a tribute to Richard Oppie,
this interview,
but I remember playing cricket with him.
He was playing first love in cricket
in your 10 year old.
And so he's quite a good cricketer.
He's probably the first to admit
he wasn't the best cricketer going around,
but he was good enough to play first love in cricket.
Over the batting,
we were playing against St. Kevin's one day
and there was a guy bowling,
and he was bowling pretty quick for school cricket.
And he hit opposite,
literally on the,
it was a bouncer,
and hit him on the tip of the elbow.
Like such an awful place to hit.
And his elbow was just mushed
and he just kept batting.
And afterwards,
when people are asking about it,
he was so stoic about it,
he wouldn't complain about it.
And he was,
that was very much his thing.
He was very tough.
But I remember going,
oh wow,
like you don't make it,
if you get hurt,
don't make a big thing about it.
And just,
it's just funny,
you pick up little things from people
and I'll do,
there are three that I just think of,
think of Richard Oppie.
Every day I think about
the hacks of life,
which I think the podcast world
is bringing to life,
isn't it?
You used to have to wait
for someone to write a book,
see them in person.
But now in real time,
people are genuinely sharing
more than they've ever done before.
Are you finding that?
Yeah,
absolutely.
It's funny,
I think the whole world,
certainly commercial sites
are still trying to work out
how on earth podcasts,
because they're free.
I guess it's like TV,
like it's a free,
it's just this free product,
it's great.
Like the,
whatever you're into,
you can find someone having a really,
I always,
one of the things I love
is,
I'll give you an example of it,
like that show that came up on,
I think it was Netflix
or wherever it was,
The Octopus Teacher
or whatever,
that guy who would,
it wasn't so much The Octopus,
I was interested,
I loved this man's passion.
I loved watching someone
who was so passionate
about something
and the excitement he got from it.
And I feel the same
listening to a podcast
when someone's on a topic
they just love exploring
and they want to nerd out on it.
I kind of,
I'm often more interested
in their passion
and the topic
than what the topic is itself.
And I think podcasts,
I think they're just great for that.
I love,
and certainly with our podcast,
it's been an incredible experience
that I've loved so much.
And I get to do it with,
you know,
three of my best friends,
Bridget, our producer,
who you know well,
who produced
The Hot Breakfast for you
for many years,
Ryan Shelton
and my little brother Josh.
And we get to
have these incredible people
on who are willing to share
really vulnerable stuff.
And then when that happens,
you have this closeness
and connection with them
that you never really forget.
These friendships have come
out of nowhere
where it's just,
you can't have those conversations
and then not stay in touch with them.
So it's been incredible.
That feels like
your superpower to me here.
The handful of times
I've been in your company,
it feels like
you open up immediately
a truth serum.
It's amazing.
And so suddenly
I start sharing with you things
I don't share with other people.
I don't know if you intend to do it,
but it seems as though
that's a sort of gift.
You make people feel comfortable enough
straight away.
And that's what The Imperfects does,
isn't it?
It gets people to share
in ways they haven't before.
And is that something
that you've always,
valued and been able to do?
That's very kind to say.
Thank you.
I think I don't do it with everyone.
It's a certain energy.
I think you just want
a certain energy with someone.
You're like,
I feel very safe to share stuff
with this person.
And I think when you do that,
that person feels like,
oh, this person trusts me.
So I trust them.
I think that's kind of what it does.
But no,
I don't do it to everyone.
But you certainly have that energy
of like,
I can trust this guy.
I can tell him stuff.
Yeah, I think I've probably
always instinctively liked
those kind of conversations
where it's like very real.
You're like,
well, I might only meet this person once.
Or,
I don't know,
I would like to make this encounter,
you know,
I'd like to make this encounter count
or like count for something.
Or,
I don't know,
I'd like it to be,
I'd like to know more about this person.
I sent an extra book on the plane
last night on the way back
from Ballina.
And he would have been
older than my dad.
He was probably about 80 years old.
And he had his phone out
and he had like,
I say this in a kind way,
but old person sized text.
It was huge.
And he's writing notes to himself.
And it was,
it said what I'd learned today.
And I was watching Unchained,
the Netflix cycling
Tour de France documentary.
But my screen was very close
to where he was holding his
and it's huge text.
And I could see,
and I was trying not to look,
but it was very hard not to.
He was writing his reflections on the day.
And it was really vulnerable stuff
about someone,
I don't know who it was,
but he was reflecting on someone
who he wants to know,
he wanted to know
why they keep him out of the loop
for so long
and only bring him the last minute.
Do they not trust him?
Do they not love him?
And it was really,
I was like,
oh,
I so want to talk to this man.
I want to hear the actual story.
He just didn't look like
the kind of guy
who would even have those thoughts,
let alone reflect on them.
And it's a two-hour flight,
the whole way,
there's really deep thoughts
and I didn't read all of them.
I read a lot of them.
It was hard not to,
but I think everyone has a story.
Like everyone has this,
has an incredible story.
And I kind of want to share mine
with people
and have them share theirs.
And it sort of results in,
I'd like love,
like the result is,
so with your leader group,
perfect example,
my leader group.
So we started last,
just started later last year
and remarkable people.
So we've got high performance
from Dr. Troy Fleming.
Yep.
Yep.
We have Vanessa Ford,
who's the creative super senior
over in Canada.
We have-
Mick Baines from the Western Board.
Tyson Ballard,
who's a serial entrepreneur
that is a remarkable human being.
It's like 50 companies.
He's out of control, Tyson,
with what he's doing creatively.
And the first two sessions are good.
Like we were getting a lot out of it.
We're chatting.
And then session three,
I don't think you might be saying this,
but Dr. Troy Fleming,
Dr. Troy Fleming just told us
about a problem he was having
that was more about his life
than his personal life.
And he was really vulnerable
and sharing.
He was sharing where he was at
and all the walls came tumbling down.
And all of a sudden,
I went from really liking these people
to just loving these people.
Like I honestly,
I was looking at this bloke on the screen
who I've never met before.
He's over in Milwaukee
and I'm just,
I thought,
I love this man.
I love him.
And it was all because he just told us
what was really happening in his life.
I think that's what it is.
When people tell you
what's really happening in their life,
like when someone tells the world
what they're struggling with,
the world just wraps their arms around them.
It's like,
yeah, hey, we've got you.
And that's certainly my experience.
It's just a much nicer feeling
to walk side by side
with someone thinking
they've got my back
because I know what's really going on
as opposed to,
I'll pretend everything's fine
because they'll think I'm great
because everything's fine.
It's just never really.
No, particularly when you,
you know,
people that look like
they've got their life
completely sorted out,
doesn't it?
And we always look and go,
God, there's nothing going on there.
And then when someone does let you in,
because everyone's got shit going on,
haven't they?
We all have.
We're all making mistakes.
We've all got stuff happening
on the family front.
I think everyone's up against it.
Yeah.
Everyone's up against it.
We just have been taught,
I think,
or,
we've picked up
somewhere along the line,
whether it's through our parenting
or through school
or just through society,
that the aim is to present
the opposite
so that you're impressive
and then you're accepted,
which I think is fine,
but I think eventually
that unravels
or that comes undone
at a certain point.
Whereas I think if you just,
hey, this is what's happening,
it provided you feel safe
to do that.
I think it's,
you get a much more,
a full rounded experience
of the human emotions.
And what I love about
what you've been able to do,
there's so many questions
to come back to
and I will in a moment,
but, you know,
I see you in the huddle
at State of Origin
for Queensland.
You don't get more alpha.
You don't get anywhere
in the world
than those guys.
AFL world's not far behind
and they're bringing in
Hugh Van Collenburg
from Kerry Grammar.
A Victorian.
A Victorian
to come in
and teach them that,
teach them to be vulnerable,
teach them to share
their feelings more.
And, you know,
it's the world I grew up in
in AFL football.
Shit, don't do that.
You'll be ostracized.
You've brought that
to mainstream here
in Australia.
It must be,
do you have those moments
where you look around and go,
or does it just feel so natural?
You walk into those environments now
and you can create that?
I feel confident now
to do that,
but it wasn't always the case.
I mean,
my first,
my first deleting,
I wanted to do this in schools.
I wanted to do talks in schools
and some workplaces,
but never really felt qualified
in a workplace
because as a teacher,
I was like,
I haven't spent much time
in corporate world.
And then when I got the opportunity
to go and speak
to the Melbourne Storm
in 2015,
I was really nervous
and I don't often get
nervous,
but I was extremely nervous.
They're the biggest men
I've ever seen
in my entire life.
They didn't look like
they were ever wrapped
to be in a room
listening to guys
that are talking
about mental health
and NBA finals were on.
It was like,
they're watching the NBA finals
and I had to turn it off
to come in.
I was like,
this is not good.
And a few of the boys
at the back
had their iPads out
and they were watching
while I started.
And five minutes in,
Billy Slater put his hand up
and I did,
I'm a Melbourne boy,
so I knew Billy Slater,
I knew Cameron Smith.
I didn't even know
who Cooper Cronk was,
so I didn't know anyone else.
That definitely helped,
but Billy put his hands up
five minutes in
and he goes,
hey mate.
And I thought,
oh,
this could be,
and he goes,
this is fucking awesome.
And he pointed at me
and he goes,
keep going.
I was like,
well,
yeah,
I wasn't going to stop,
but okay,
thank you.
And from that point
I was looking around,
I was like,
oh,
their iPads are down.
They need this,
like they really need this stuff.
And from that point on,
it just,
it took off.
Like it just took off
in a late sport.
And the funny thing
is it got to a point
where I thought,
I don't,
I just want to have a rest
from doing a late sport
because I care,
I love sports so much.
And so when I work with a club,
I become obsessed with that club
and while Port Adelaide,
while I was working with Port Adelaide
for a couple of years
and we did some really great stuff together
and I became,
I was so nervous at game times.
I couldn't relax and enjoy footy.
And then when I was doing
with Cricket Australia,
I couldn't watch the cricket
and relax.
I just want,
and so I just want time away
from sport.
I just want a couple of years off.
And then Billy,
two years ago,
Billy Saita said,
can we catch up?
And I said,
yeah,
it's fine.
He said,
I'd love you to work
with the Queensland State of Origin team
and gave a big spiel on why
and said,
what do you reckon?
And I said,
I'll do it if the coach is,
I said,
if the coach is in,
I'll do it.
Because if the coach isn't in mate,
he's not,
and he said,
he paused for a minute
and he said,
so I'm the coach.
And I went,
all right,
okay.
Again,
I'm not all over,
you know,
I'm not over rugby league.
That has been,
I have never seen culture
like that before.
Never.
I quite generally,
hand on heart,
have learned a lot more
from them than they did me.
And you know,
I love that story
that you mentioned,
you know,
Billy Slater,
five minutes in,
what he's done
is basically signal to the group,
I'm in here,
come with me,
you need to be in as well.
And,
and that's what great culture
is about,
isn't it?
It's,
it's saying,
I don't care what,
get off your iPads boys.
I'm in,
we need to absorb this.
And the fact that
you get an entree in
through someone like Billy Slater
is why it probably works
so,
so successful.
There's so much,
mate,
there's 500 questions
in so many different directions.
I feel like I could do
a three part series
on Queensland State of Origin.
There's a,
there's a whole new podcast
in that alone.
But I,
I do want to go back a bit
just to give you the context.
You standing in front of
Queensland State of Origin
and so many other stories
that maybe don't make sense
to people without going back
a step.
Yeah, of course.
There's a saying
that I really believe in
on the other side of pain
and hardship in life
often is almost everything
that you want.
And you had some serious
hardship growing up
and particularly,
you know,
with your sister
and the effect that had on you
and your family
and her more pertinently.
Do you think
if you could explain
a bit of that story
do you think
living through that
has given you this platform
now to be
who you are?
Yes,
I do.
I do.
I think,
and it does sound
a little bit cliche
but I do feel like
if it didn't,
if my family didn't go through
what was,
so my sister
when she was 14 years old
was diagnosed
with anorexia nervosa
an eating disorder.
It ravaged her,
it ravaged the family
and when she was 17 years old
she's admitted to hospital
because she dropped
below crisis weight
and it was extremely,
I didn't realise
until she was actually in,
that,
that was the night
when we got home
from my sister's
my sister's admitted
to hospital,
I'm 20,
George is 17,
my little brother Josh
is 14
and we're sitting
around the dinner table
that night,
George is not there
obviously
and dad
just picked up his plate
and went to the kitchen
quite early
and was cleaning up
and asked him a question
he didn't answer
so I turned around
to ask him again
and I'll never ever forget
the silhouette
of my dad
hunched over the kitchen
sinking tears
and I hadn't really
seen dad cry before
and for anyone listening
certainly for me
from chatting to people
it seems to be
for a lot of people
you remember the times
you saw your parents cry
and it's very unnerving
it's very unsettling
because they're like
the people keeping you
safe from the world
and there you gauge
on how things are going
and when you see them
not coping
it's kind of like
okay,
who's got me now
and I had this
strong feeling
I just remember it
so clearly thinking
that's the point
where I became fascinated
with the question
what is it that makes
people happy
I knew I couldn't
fix my sister
but I so desperately
wanted to make dad happy
and mum happy
and Josh happy
because I'd realised
we weren't
I was like
oh, we're not a happy family
we have been
we're not anymore
and I had no idea
what to do
I had no idea
for a very long time
but that's what started
I think that question
what is it that makes
people happy
was always
burning
that question
was burning quite fiercely
in the back of my mind
for the whole of my 20s
and I had no idea
what I was going to do
with my life
but I did
that was my biggest fascination
I think
and that led me to do
primary school teaching
because I thought
well if I'm a primary school teacher
I could stop
anyone I teach
I'll stop them getting
I'll stop them getting
a mental illness
I don't know how
but I'll stop that happening
I remember my first day
in front of grade 5
was the first day
as a teacher
going right
time to stop this
it's getting a mental illness
I had no idea
what to do again
but so to come back
to your question
without that
I'm not doing this
there's no way
I'm doing this
and it's almost unfair
my sister went through that
so I could then
do this
but yeah
that's kind of what happened
I have to ask you
what does it take
to be happy?
So gosh
I've been on such a journey
since then
you know
we've had struggles
in my family
now which
which I'll speak about
one day
but
so when we
when I first
born Benji
in 2016
people
a lot of people said
what do you want most
for your son?
and my answer
for the first month
was I just wanted
to be happy
and it would lead me
on to going
and you know
what you do
to be happy
you practice gratitude
empathy and mindfulness
that's what I learnt
in India
that's what the research
says
that's what our
program's about
but the
the older my kids
I mean I learnt this
after a month
he's not going to be
happy all the time
that's not the goal
when no one's
happy all the time
what I want for my kids
is when
is that
when not if
when something goes
wrong in their life
I want them
to have some resources
they can go back to
that might help them
navigate
what is a really
tough time
because it'll
we all go through
really tough stuff
and we're not all
happy all the time
but we can do things
there are things
we can do
to navigate that
and it doesn't always work
but
if we know the things
we kind of
I'm seeing my psychologist
once every two weeks
at the moment
and
with the challenges
we've got in our family
at the moment
I've been finding
really difficult of late
and I've been saying to her
I'm doing this stuff
and there's
the exercise
that keeps me
exercise is the big thing
for me
plus performing
with our live tour
but I noticed
even those things
weren't starting to
really have the effect
I wanted them to
like they weren't
you know
when every time I exercise
I just feel so happy
or performing so happy
or journaling
and gratitude
empathy and mindfulness stuff
and I've noticed
in the last few months
it hasn't quite been
you know
it just hasn't been
working the way it usually does
and that's made me panic a bit
and go oh my god
if these things aren't working
where am I at now
but
she said
you've just got to drag yourself
towards these things right now
and the wheel will turn for you
but you've got to keep
dragging yourself
towards this stuff
so
I don't think I've really
answered the question
but
I know that
no matter where you are
we're all on the mental health
spectrum somewhere
some people are sitting
at the top
and life's great
and some are down the bottom
but
if you come back to this stuff
the research says
if you practice gratitude
which is where you pay attention
to what you've got
you don't worry about
what you don't have
you can practice empathy
which is
you put yourself
in someone else's shoes
and you look for
compassionate action
from that
and if you
practice mindfulness
just being wherever you are
the only thing that is really
happening in our world
is what's happening right now
those things will
have a positive impact
on your mental health
those things will help you
to experience
more joy
and even
I used to say this
from a place of privilege
which is
I was just so happy
no problems in my life
life was great
come on guys
do this stuff
it really helps
I'm now saying it
but
from a place of
life's pretty tough
at the moment
and I know this stuff
is going to get me through
even if it doesn't feel
like it is at the time
I've got to keep
dragging myself
to the treadmill
dragging myself
to the gym
dragging myself
to my journal
dragging myself
to breathwork
whatever it is
and the wheel will turn
and do you feel
that consistency
is the key
and do you
like a lot of people
when it gets stressful
it's almost the hardest time
you say drag yourself
to the treadmill
hard to write in your journal
when you're feeling shit
hard to be mindful
when there's chaos
going on
on whatever front there is
and do you think
sometimes we kid ourselves
a little bit
and we go
it's not working
but if we actually write down
we go
I may have let that slip
a little bit
more than I understood
is that
yeah
and it's so hard
when you're not feeling good
it's so much harder
than when you're feeling good
you have a good day
and you think
gosh shit
things are going pretty well
for me at the moment
I might write a gratitude journal
that's not hard
it's good for you
it's good to do it
but when you are really
up against it
and you've got some stuff
really going wrong
in your life
stuff that
you may not be able
to control
which makes it even
more challenging at times
that's when it's hard
to you know
fuck doing a gratitude journal
I don't have a beer
you know
that's like
who's in control
like who's controlling you
like who is in control
but it's like just
if you're looking
at a couple of options
which is staying up later
having a beer
or journaling
and going to bed early
or doing the stuff
that makes you feel good
if you're taking
the option
that you know
you know in that moment
like I know this isn't
the right thing to do
but I'm going to do it anyway
you just ask yourself
the question
who's got the control panel here
like I want to control
myself right now
I think often
I think
I do so many analogies
around running
but as a runner
you'll have those days
where you get up
and you're like
I'm not feeling it today
but you do it anyway
and it doesn't
it's not as quick
as you usually go
but you've got the miles
in your legs
and you go
well I've done that
it wasn't my best
but I dragged myself there
I've sort of got that approach
to everything right now
literally if it's running
like I don't feel like it
but I know it's going to
make me feel good
or journaling
I know it's not going to
yeah
I just from all the work
I've done
it's like
it does feel like
you're dragging yourself
to these things sometimes
but you've got to keep doing it
there's so many dimensions
I've got to come back to you
and the freak running thing
that you've attempted
in recent times
but I think probably
the pattern from
this might be 148 people
I've sat in front of
the thing that's most
those that understand
their version
of what you just said
of their exercise
of whatever meditation
or mindfulness
whatever way
they come to gratitude
or their consistency
of their daily habits
the ones that articulate that
and are pretty
seems to be
the ones that are
the ones that have
the smoothest sailing
and I think
that would be the pattern
that has been most evident
over the time
of sitting across from people
and I'm not surprised
that's where you went
in your answer as well
yeah
it's
because I'm not
I have to
I'm not always great at it
like I'm not
but I do know
I mean exercise
is the main thing
for me right now
so I just
I'll schedule that out
from you know
I have a running coach
who's got me a month long program
and I just don't
you've got to tell us now
you went for a
world record
it was a national record
but if we
tell me who the team is
can you go through the
so
I played cricket
until I was 35
36 years old
and our home ground
Melbourne University
next to the Oval
was an athletics track
and I
enjoyed athletics
more than cricket at school
athletics is just the best
I was never
I did okay at it
but I
every Saturday
I'd stand there
out in the field
and I'd always
the older I get
the worse I'd play
and I'd be standing there going
I want to do that
I want to do athletics
but I'm getting older and older
so it's disappearing
and then
when I was 36 or 37
I went
I'd retire from cricket
and I went
no I am going to do that
I'm going to run 400 metres
that's going to be my event
was that your event as a kid?
no ones and twos were
but I thought
my hamstrings don't stand a chance
and I don't want to do
middle distance
that looks awful
so 400's like
kind of the event
that I'll choose
it's full of pain in itself
it's disgusting
it is
it is awful
like it's just
any track author
will say
that's the event
that destroys you the most
anyway
I chose that event
for some reason
and trained for three years
and compared for three years
didn't tell a soul
didn't put it on social media
I just
and started sharing
little bits of it
because it was making me feel really good
the fact that I was getting better
at something in my 40s
it made me feel good
I feel like
a lot of what you do physically
is in decline
and that can be quite
and 400's all power
and all speed
you're not supposed to get better at that
no
because I come from such a low base
it wasn't hard
but
and so
I started sharing a little bit of it
and Steve Hooker
who
the Australian
legendary
pole vault gold medalist
superstar
yeah
had the great pleasure
to record a podcast with Steve
oh
he's just a beauty
um
he
we went to primary school together
I was a couple years above him
at primary school
and so we knew each other
but hadn't chatted since primary school
and he got in touch
and just
and we bumped into each other
at um
at Zadapek
which is a huge meet in Melbourne
no
the Moray Plant Classic
that's what it was
and he said
I've just been watching you running
I found it quite inspiring
and I thought he was taking the piss out of me
because he's like
Steve Hooker
and my running
you would never describe it as inspiring
if you saw it happening in the flesh
and he said
I have for a while
been thinking about something
and he said
I'll introduce you to someone first
he gets this guy out of the stands
he said
this is Brendan Cole
Brendan's a gold medalist
at the Commonwealth Games
for 4x4
and there's a really good mate
Simon
who's a dad from school
who's a beautiful runner
and he said
what do you reckon
the four of us
trying to break the national
4x400
yeah
hadn't even finished explaining it
I said I mean
that sounds unbelievable
opportunity to run with you guys
and so
this friendship group started out
and no one really knew each other
well Stephen
sorry Stephen
Brendan
had been in
Commonwealth Games
Olympic Games teams together before
but
and there's four blokes in their 40s
and we went
we picked an event
that was a year out
and we said
we're going to try and break
the national record
we're going to
all four of us have to run
really fast
what sort of times
for 400s it was
we all worked out
we'd have to run
51.8
we'd all have to do
a 51.8
to do that
and
which is a serious 400
at any time
at any
well it was going to be
a PB for me
a PB for Simon
I mean Stephen
Brendan had run much quicker
than that in their heyday
obviously
but hadn't run in a long time
and we had a year
of training together
and
I was like
the biggest learning
I had for that year
and probably
for a long time
is
the joy you get
from choosing an event
that is going to be
really challenging
with a group of people
like minded people
and training together
for that
and when you
when I say training together
we would be
I'd be on the
watt bike
at 5.30 in the morning
in the garage
in the middle of July
last year
in Melbourne
sending a video
to the other boys
who were also doing
the same thing
so we weren't
physically together
but it was very
you'd get out of bed
because you knew
they were going to do it
and we had this goal together
it doesn't have to be
breaking the national
record
it could be a long walk
with friends
whatever it is
and the day came along
and
we
it was really cold
which for people who know
truck it's disastrous
it was really cold
very windy
it was summer
but it was 14
coldest day of summer
wet, windy
and we missed out
by 0.8 of a second
and turns out
Simon had COVID
he tested positive
for COVID that night
and we had all the stuff
go against us
but
I didn't really even care
like I remember
crossing the line
and there was
there's 5,000 people
there
Zadapek
massive event
Bruce McEvaney's
calling the race
and I hear Bruce McEvaney
because I was
for some reason
I made my run last
and I heard Bruce McEvaney
go
I could hear him
in the home truck
going someone stop the clocks
and he goes
they've just missed out
and I heard this audible
like groan from the crowd
because they were so invested
they were so into it
these four old blokes
trying to run really fast
I instantly didn't care
I was like
it wasn't about
it'd be nice
but honestly
it wasn't about that
like it was
the connection I got
the healthy habits
that came from it
like I just had to eat
really wanted to
to prioritise sleep
I had to stretch
I had to
instead of eating
Marvelous Creations
chocolate on the couch
and having
just drinking whatever
watching television
I'd be like
drinking water
and I'd be stretching
and I'd feel good
when I went to bed
it was the
it was the highlight
of last year
sorry
did I have a child last year
no it was the highlight
it was the highlight
of last year
I mean and you don't
want to let your mates down
that's the beauty isn't it
when you're running
in something like that
the will to want to
you know make sure
you hold up your end
of the bargain
must have been overwhelming
yeah and that is
something that
no matter what level
you play at
if you have played sport
which a lot of your guests have
the transition out of that
is you know
I played club cricket
for way too long
for 25 years
I didn't miss a game
I didn't miss a
I was always there
if we injured
the club was everything
in my life
and then to walk away
from that
it's I mean you would
know that better than anyone
but like it's a serious
adjustment for anyone
to make no matter
what level you play at
especially elite
but I found that again
like I found this like
oh I'm in a team
like I'm in a team
and we're there
for each other
and it was amazing
that little bit of competitive
and that
little bit of
sense of purpose
it's genius
the Imperfects
is a phenomenon
that you've created
as you said
younger brother Josh
and Ryan Sheldon
and Bridget's
remarkable producer
what's the takeaway
from that
sitting in those
conversations
is there a common thread
that has been something
you've adapted
into your life
yeah so I
I reckon the genesis
of the podcast
has been my biggest learning
so I
like a lot of people
growing up in Australia
just
have so
much admiration
and respect
and so in awe
of the Hamish and Andy
prop brand
or just them as people
and their shows
and everything they've ever done
because
as someone who has worked
very hard to teach people
resilience
or to make them smile
I don't think anyone
has brought more joy
to people in this country
over the last 20 years
than Hamish and Andy
and great friends of yours
and
sorry to jump in
but what I love
is that
they've done it
and they've never done
anything nasty
to anyone ever
not once
and other people
with the tall poppy syndrome
went after them
and they do everything
with a smile
and a grace
and if you bump into them
as good a people as they are on air
they're as good a people off the air
as both of them
I should speak to them individually
but
yeah
and they were the motivation
for you doing that
is it
no well I was going to say
I mean Andy by the way
Andy's the reason I was in Alida
Andy I remember Andy
at Hamish's party
saying I've got this
we just met
it was the first time we met
and two minutes in he said
I've got this course
you've got to do
I was like
that's a bold suggestion
to him
you'll love it
and he was so right
but
so
I've just loved
everything about
I mean so in awe
of what they do
and I used to think
quite deeply about
how is it that they do
this thing that like
how can you be that famous
and not
no one speaks ill of them
no one's
there's no
you never have a feeling
of like
there's no tall poppy syndrome
I mean if it is
it's just they deal with it
so beautifully
so I've always been in awe
of what they've created
and
one of my favourite
people in all that
has always been Ryan Shelton
I love the roles that Ryan
plays throughout their journey
Hamish's best friend from school
and I
I saw him sitting
in a cafe
in Fitzroy
back in 2014
I think it was
and I got so nervous
because I knew
I was going to tell him something
and what I wanted to tell him was
and you hadn't met him
never met him before
no never met Hamish
I had seen him around
and just
and I saw Ryan
I'd seen Hamish
but I never
was never brave enough
to go and speak to him
I didn't want to annoy him
you know
and I saw Ryan
and one of the things
that used to happen to me
was back in the early
2011-2014
I would go to
four or five schools a day
and inevitably
invariably I should say
by the fourth or fifth
school
I didn't want to do it
I was exhausted
and I felt flat
from no energy
and one of the things
I'd do
sitting in the car park
of a school
around Australia
I'd get my phone out
I'd go on Instagram
and I'd type in
Ryan Shelton's name
and I'd watch his videos
and they would make me
laugh so much
and they would change my mood
and then I'd go in
and do these talks
feeling great
and I just wanted to
tell him that
I wanted to say
hey you have had
a massive impact on me
and I just want to say
thank you
I got so nervous
I went to the cafe
and I
it was the most
uncool thing I've ever done
but I sat down next to him
and pretended I hadn't seen him
and went oh Ryan Shelton
and I told him that
and I said
I just want you to know
and he was so
beautiful with that
Brené Brown talks about
she says vulnerability
is taking an emotional risk
when the outcome is uncertain
the outcome
you know they say
never meet your heroes
and the outcome
is so uncertain for me
because he was writing
he was working
so I had to stop him
with doing what he said
and he turned around
he was so lovely
and he was chatting
he was like
what do you do
tell me what you do
and I said no no
that's not why I came here
I just wanted to say
no I'm interested
so I told him
and I said
do you mind
if I take a photo
for my wife
it was for me
I don't know why
I said my wife
I get that now
guys going
get out mate
just a photo for the missus
you can say it's for you
anyway
and we got this photo together
and I put it on Instagram
and tagged him
hoping we'd become friends
and it worked
but we were sort of
in touch a little bit
and didn't hear a thing
for two years
two years later
out of nowhere
I get a message from
I don't know three years
from Ryan saying
hi mate
not sure if you remember me
but I was just wondering
if you wanted to catch up
and he'd had this
existential crisis
when he was away
with his
with his
with his
with his
with his
partner
he'd realised
that he said
if I realised
if I got the TV show
I just want to have
my own TV show
and have it be voted
the best TV show
in the world
even if I got that
I wouldn't be happy
I wouldn't
that wouldn't make me happy
and I'm feeling very lost
and we talked
for hours
and we caught up
a couple times a week
and he just shared
his story with me
I didn't say much
I'm not a counsellor
I'm not a therapist
I just listened to him
and quite a bit
quite emotional
about the relationship
with Hamish
and how it's become
Hamish and Andy
it's you know
he was always
growing up
it was him and Hamish
and that was difficult
and I was listening
one of the stories
he told me
I can't remember
which one it was
but he was so emotional
and there was a couple
sitting near us
and I remember
leaving the cafe
thinking
we were new friends
at this point
and I was thinking
God for anyone
eavesdropping that conversation
that would have been
the best conversation
to hear
because I've always
looked at Ryan
and thought
if you were Ryan Shelton
like
you're best mates
with Hamish and Andy
you're creating TV shows
and you travel the world
with them
life is amazing
and he was basically
saying to me
no it's not
like my life is not amazing
and here's why
and I remember thinking
everyone needs to hear this
because I'm feeling
so much better
just knowing that
his life isn't perfect
and I can't think of anyone
I'd rather be
than Ryan Shelton
and so
I asked him
that night I messaged him
11.30 and said
I've had no idea
for a podcast
would you be interested
and the next day
we caught up
I told him
and he said
happy to help produce it
but I don't need to be on it
I'm not going to be on that
and I said how come
he said I'm not qualified
and I said no no
I think it would be
really great to have you there
because the humour
really makes it so accessible
and he said no
I wouldn't be comfortable
and it took
a year to convince him
it was a year of him saying
no I'm not doing that
he said I'll help
because I'd love the idea of it
but I'm not going to be
a part of it
and I think his partner
Jam convinced him as well
but then when
the podcast started
I'd already had
almost my biggest learning
of like
hearing that
we all look at people
lives
I mean people look at you
and just go
well my god
imagine you look dusty
imagine that
that's life sorted
but you know
when you should
come home and
see the chaos
see me getting yelled at
as I should
do
from time to time
but you're right
isn't it
it's yeah
we're all peddling
super hard aren't we
yeah and we've
sort of touched on this already
but it's like
I realise after doing
a year and a half
of the podcast
I had never really been
overly vulnerable
with how I was
going in my life
I'd facilitated
conversations with other people
and Ryan had done
a beautiful episode
on his friendship
with Hamish
and then I did an episode
on how I really
wasn't coping
during COVID
which looking back
isn't overly revolutionary
a lot of people
weren't coping
but I was quite early
to say
I'm really struggling
in fact I remember
doing an interview
with you
and Ed about this
but I said
I'm really struggling
and I was at
Baker's Delight
that afternoon
and a lady
drove past
very slowly
in her Volvo
XC40
and ran down the window
and she said
I needed to hear
that so desperately
from you
and she said
I like you now
I wasn't sure
but I like you now
and whilst it was
a very sort of
bold thing
to just announce
I don't know
what I'd done
previously
to upset you
but I think
what she was saying
was like
you've been very honest
with your life
and that makes you
more relatable
and I reckon
that's probably
my biggest learning
yeah and you mentioned
asking this question
around vulnerability
becoming this buzzword
almost
and you referenced
Brené Brown
who's been the person
who's put that on the map
more than anyone
and then I think
even she says
like the needles
move too much
like yes
authentic
is first and foremost
and that people
are oversharing
perhaps getting it wrong
in this sort of stretch
to try and be something
they're not
is that something
that you think
everyone needs
to understand as well
absolutely
and that's where
this stuff
is so beautifully
like
psychologists
and therapists
have trained
their entire
background training
is around
how you facilitate
safe
and appropriate
sharing
and often
that's just
with a professional
and I think
it's become trendy
to
especially in sporting clubs
for a while
to okay
tell us everything
and then we're closer
and then
but there's no such thing
as forced vulnerability
so it doesn't
it doesn't work
and I actually look back
at my time
at Port Adelaide
and realise
I probably made that mistake
with Port Adelaide
where I'd been with the club
for a year and a half
at a wonderful
relationship with them
and we went away
on a pre-season camp
and probably the most
powerful two hours
of my professional career
in a room with
these guys who
who love each other dearly
and the coaches
and everyone was
very close
and it was away on camp
and it was just
these beautiful stories
that felt really right
and they felt
it was genuine
it was authentic
nothing was forced
and it was just
it was really beautiful
and having spoken
to a lot of the players
since they still talk
about how it was
you know Charlie Dixon
said it was the moment
he started to
to actually recover
and work with his depression
in a healthy way
that was the moment
that sharing
and we came back
to Port Adelaide
weeks later
and some players
hadn't had the chance
to share
and we wanted to
give them the chance
but sitting in the club
rooms with a few staff
popping in
and it just
and I was saying
come on guys
we've got to
get through these stories
and no one was
no one wanted to do it
and I didn't say
come on someone do it
but it was just like
it was just silence
and I said we can wait
that's fine
a couple of players
I think just did it
because they didn't want
the silence
but it wasn't the right reason
and it felt a bit
I remember that moment
thinking
I remember the psychologist
was there
and I was like
God why wasn't she
at the first session
I told her what I was
going to do
and she's like
yeah okay
just you know
but she came to the
second one unfortunately
but it can be
when it's forced
it doesn't count
and the person needs
to feel really safe
and it needs to
I think it's a really
vulnerable thing to do
to just write down
the stuff that you're
going through
write down something
that's in your head
with the thought
with the distinct possibility
that you might share
it with someone
one day
you don't have to
just write it
and see how it feels
for next month
how does that feel
might be an issue
with someone
or something
from your childhood
with someone else
and you write a letter
to that person
you don't have to
necessarily give it to them
but you might feel
like it eventually
that kind of stuff
a lot of it I think
is getting it
out of your head
like just getting
this shit out of your head
and putting it somewhere
so you can have
a bit of space from it
otherwise it just
it can eat you up
the things that you're
ashamed of
the things you're
struggling with
get it out of your head
and I think it's gone
I absolutely think
it's gone too far
I hear some things
that I sometimes hear
podcasts that are
and I love that people
are trying to do it
I do love it
because it is a great
thing to do
but I think I hear
sometimes I feel like
it's a bit forced
and the person's
not comfortable
yeah I mean
I'm reluctant to give
too much behind the scenes
stuff with a podcast
but we will spend
with the guests
I will spend a fair bit
of time with them
before the interview
and Bridget spends
a fair bit of time
with them
so establishing
where their boundaries
are where they feel safe
and building a fair bit
of rapport before it
so it's not
they're not walking
in cold going
right let's do
vulnerability
you know it's like
and also them
understanding that
hey we don't want you
to say anything
that you're not
comfortable with
like we're not
looking for that
we're not looking
for headlines
we're not looking
for controversy
we would love to
have a really special
hour with you
where you talk about
something that you
would like to talk
about but there is
no pressure on you
to do anything
that's going to
make you put you
in an uncomfortable
position
and I think that's
what comes out
about you
you've always
looked like someone
that wants to do
could and not
looking for an outcome
that maybe creates
something that is
manufactured
and I think that
authenticity of yours
is very real
you're kind enough
to mention a leader
and we've been
fascinated
Andy Lee to
introduce you
and someone who
does self-reflection
and leadership
for a long period
of time
I'm always curious
about you as you
said turning up
with this group
of people
five or six people
that you wouldn't
have been in touch
with you mentioned
Troy Flanagan
from the Walkie Bucks
and Vanessa Ford
is a remarkable
lady doing
incredible stuff
you know from her
home in Portugal
and Amit Baines
is an incredible
person as a CEO
of the Bulldogs
Tyson Ballard
someone that got
enormous respect
for what did you
take out of that
as someone that's
probably in that
space all the time
what was
valuable for you
to me it was
having these
like four people
from around
five people from
around the world
who I knew
really cared
about things
I was going
through
so we would
share challenges
that we had
and Dr.
Troy Flanagan
who's the one
who really
burst the door
he's the one
who really
burst the door
for us
and went
okay well
I want to
talk about
real stuff
that's happening
not just like
oh I'm having
an issue
with a staff
member who's
which is all
fine if that's
what people
have an issue
with but
for him it
was a much
deeper question
around purpose
and what it
was to do
and I think
with his life
I mean he went
there it just
encouraged us all
to go well
what is actually
my biggest
what is really
keeping me up
at night
not like
I'm not sure
how much to
pay this staff
member I'm
not sure
you know
what it was
real deep
stuff and
then to share
that and know
we're meeting
in two weeks
time and to
know that
everyone really
cared and there's
a WhatsApp group
that comes off
the back room
people check in
with each other
I'm fascinated
by Amit who's
the CEO of
the Bulldogs
and someone who
loves sport and
is now sort of
interested in the
running of how
there's you know
how a leader
someone like Amit
comes in and
just goes right
and run this
giant organization
and from what I've
learned about CEOs
a lot of their job
is just dealing
with problems
like it's just
like here's a
problem fix this
here's an issue
fix this
but with Amit
it plays out
in the media
so I could
pick up the
paper and go
oh shit
poor Amit's
dealing with this
and he's dealing
with that or
you'd see about
it on read
about it online
and then you
know to be able
to check in
and send a message
going hey how
you going
and I just
felt like
how am I
how have I
got access to
this guy
like this is
crazy I can
talk to this
guy about
stuff he's
going and
we'd call
each other
and just check
in with stuff
that was going
on or he
would say oh
call me so
I just heard
that episode
with so and
so on the
podcast love
that and I'll
say god how
did that thing
go in court
today whatever
whatever he was
going through
this is amazing
I just found
incredible but
then the
diversity of
people I
really liked
with our
group were
so different
we're all
doing very
different things
and I think
it's just like
I'm giving you
very long answers
today sorry
but it was
I said there's
people from
around the
world who
really cared
who really
care about me
and what I'm
trying to do
and know that I
really care about
them and it's
just like having
these really
it reminded me of
being a sporting
club you turn to
sporting club
yeah I went
played sport
I went played
cricket in
England and it
was crazy I was
like hang on
what a hack
this is I've
just turned up
overseas and I've
got 20 best
friends all of
a sudden that's
like you don't
get to do that
just traveling by
yourself it kind
of feels like I
was like I've
got these best
friends all of a
sudden and
it's really
you feel very
cared for
yeah having
people in your
corner like that
you think is
really valuable
Troy Flanagan
shared a story
with me recently
which was
inspiring we
love that you
know sometimes
these grand
things happen
he was looking
at Vanessa and
Super Sima and
her contribution
to community and
having more
black women
appear on screen
so that her
kids and a
generation of
black kids who
haven't seen
superheroes and
the superhero and
Super Sima's
superpower science
and he was so
inspired by the
contribution level
that you know the
next week went and
you know saw the
owner of the
Milwaukee Bucks
got five million
dollars and he's
now fighting the
obesity epidemic in
the Milwaukee area
on the back of a
connection a random
connection and I
think that's what
I've watched I
watched that
connection happen
over zoom I saw
the you could
because you can
see everyone's
faces and I
remember when
Vanessa would
talk about what
she was doing I
could I was
looking at him
I was like there
is something
happening in his
brain right now
he looks so
moved by what
Vanessa's doing
like it was
amazing to watch
and that's what
the connection did
that's they
wouldn't have
met there's no
way in any
other situation
those two would
have met and
you look at the
result it has
brilliant and we
we love it and
and it's part of
this sort of the
privilege of being
in those
conversations as a
team what we do
we're a bit
enamored with the
idea of inspiring
connections and
and this sort of
world of
collaboration and
then this idea
that success leaves
clues is a term I
use every week on
this podcast and
we've seen these
traits of different
leaders and I'm
fascinated with you
because you're such
a deep thinker and
and so articulate
the idea that it's
hard to lead
anyone else
without a sense
of self-leadership
is something we
talk about a lot
what does that
mean to you
self-leadership
oh self-leadership
I have thought
about this because
I hear the term
come up a bit
throughout a leader
self-leadership
I think self-leadership
is giving yourself
it's like protecting
your energy and
giving yourself
space to think
about what is
best for you
understanding that
will also be
best for the
people who are
around you and
I think the
tendency for a lot
of us is to see
a spare hour in
our calendar and
fill it or see
a spare afternoon
in the calendar
just fill and go
oh I could do
this then I
could do this
then and we go
from one thing
to the next and
the more in the
last few years
that I have
protected those
like just have
nothing to do
I think more
creatively I
think about I
end up thinking
about the people
around me like I
think about our
podcast team I
think about the
resilience project
team and I
think about what's
what I need to do
for myself to be
in a good place
and I prioritize
that stuff I
think that makes
me a better
leader the more
time ironically
the more time I
have off the
better leader I
am I think
it's a brilliant
answer and I
haven't heard
anyone go there
before isn't it
around yeah
allocating that
free time and
my mind was
going to that
analogy of the
give yourself the
oxygen mask first
on the plane
because you
can't say the
next to you
is that is that
I think so I
remember I
can't remember
like protect your
energy has been a
big thing for me
in the last year
or two
because I've
burnt out I
think 2019
2020 I burnt
out three years
in a row I
got to November
and I was really
unwell and I
wouldn't say it
was like it I
wore it as a
badge of honor
but I was like
well I've given
everything this
year I've gone
so hard but
then when you
go so hard like
that you're not
the only one who
suffers like the
people that you
love most in your
life suffer the
people who are
closest to you
suffer so my
partner my kids
and the teams
that I I love
my podcast team
and I love my
resilience
project team
they suffer too
and I think we
forget that
sometimes and so
I managed to
work out a way
of like I'm
protecting but my
overall thing is
protect your energy
and to do that
protect this time
so I've got in my
calendar I've got
there are four
people have access
to my calendar
and can schedule
stuff for me
and I've just
got Hugh not
available and
these big chunks
that go for the
next two years
I've already got
them just out
there and I'm
not they're not
allowed to touch
them I know
they can't touch
them and it's
not I'm being
lazy it's like I'm
Billy Slater said
the 2020
2020
two series
save origin series
he said to the
players really
early on camp
he said you
only have one
energy pool
they said you've
got one energy
and we've got a
game in 10 days
time and I want
you to remember
that the time you
spend on social
media worrying
about what fans
think the times
you spend reading
what the paper
says the time
you spend in
this 10-day camp
I want this to be
about protecting
as much energy as
possible he didn't
say protecting
energy he said I
want it to be about
understanding you
have one energy
it's not like you
can go well I'll
just lie on the
couch
and give those
energy to social
media and have
energy left for the
game tomorrow night
so you've got one
energy and I want
you to be very
focused on keeping
it as full as
possible and that
really spoke to me
not about state of
origin that was not
for me it was just
yeah I only have
I only have one
energy and I think
to myself I can do
all these talks
and I can run
during the day and
then I can come
home and have
energy for the
family but you
only have this one
energy so my
running is the
analogy of running
is like I'm a
sprinter and with
sprinters it's like
it's preparation for
races is trying to
have as much energy
as possible so you
don't smash yourself
in the wake letting
up to the training
you you're really
clever about it and
you taper and it's
almost like I'm sort
of tapering for life
now I'm like if I
want to have energy
at the end of the
day for the kids
which is the hardest
part of the day I
can't do four talks
I can't run I need
to have time where
that to me is like I
know it it doesn't
sound like self
leadership but my
version of that is
it's like look after
yourself leave a lot
of petrol in the
tank for the people
around you it sounds
exactly like self
leadership and I
love it you're not
available is just
brilliant you know
we grew up in an era
where if you're out
having a walk with
your wife on the
phone you'd say oh
I'm in a meeting I'm
busy yeah because you
didn't want people to
think oh how lazy is
he yes you know he's
out you know how
he gets time to walk
it's like we should
flip that shouldn't
we I'm actually going
for a walk with
Bec now I'm
unavailable this is
the most important
thing or I think
you've yeah brought
that to the table
I kind of also
learned that from
Ryan Shelton because
he has these holidays
throughout the year
where he'll go away
to he's in the US at
the moment he goes to
Europe as well and
when we're planning the
year out and we're
looking at the podcast
I'm like gosh he's
away a bit but he
always has his best
he's the most creative
person I've never seen
him come up with ideas
like his ideas are
our live show he did
was pretty much his
brain like it was
just his the ideas
he'd come up with
and he always comes
up with them when
he's overseas or
he's come back from
overseas like he has
that time where he
just stops and he
lets his brain wonder
and we don't let our
brains wander they
never wonder they're
always on whether
we're walking listening
to a podcast or
we're listening to
music or we're
sending emails as
we're walking we
go let our minds
wonder and he does
that and that's he
comes up with the
best he's an ideas
machine and he
comes up those
ideas when he's
Ryan not available
because he actually
creates the time to
do it which is
brilliant to share
the idea of a
positively impacting
people in the
environment you're
around I've heard you
talk about that
already around I
care so much for
the resilience project
team I care for the
imperfects team and
it sounds like you
think about that
impact a lot can you
share with us how
you've gone about
that well I've said
I've said it five
minutes ago I
genuinely love the
people that I work
with and and feel
very much it's like a
family and so I
think I think about
them in that way as
in like I just love
listening to them
talk I love knowing
what's happening in
their lives and I
love I think a lot
about what is best
for them because I
think what is best
for them is what's
best for the
imperfects or the
resilience project
and so I think
probably a lot of
leaders probably think
like that these days
but not sure about
that yeah I don't
know all I know is
resilience project and
the imperfects but I
do know that we we
try very hard to
think about what I
I'm going to go back
to state of origin
again I can't speak
to New South Wales
but I can't speak to
Queensland their
philosophy and having
spoken a lot to the
head of strength and
conditioning and
Billy is so it's
mid-season for them
so they're halfway
through their season
and when they come
into camp their
whole thing is
healthy and happy
athletes
let's just have
healthy and happy
so you do what you
need to do to be
healthy and to be
happy because that
will give us the
best result I don't
know I've heard that
New South Wales work
a lot harder on camp
there's a lot more
physical demands I
don't know if that's
it has been the case
I'm not in a position
to tell so though we
feel this in this
area part of New
South Wales camp
that's not the case
and I apologize but
that's sort of what
I've heard at stages
that that is the
difference and that's
kind of what I think
about for my team
what healthy happy
people like I really
I really hope that
people who work
for the resilience
project feel there's a
genuine sense of care
from and that's not
driven by me that is
driven by our CEO
Ben Waterman who is
also in a leader
group he drives out
so one of it we've
got four key
performance areas and
one of them is staff
well-being so we
measure staff
well-being every
single month and we
present it to the
staff I need to stop
saying we Ben
presents that to the
staff and we look at
the 10 different
areas of well-being
and how it's trending
and how everyone's
going we talk about
every single one with
everyone we get
everyone's buy in
on it buy in's not
the right word we get
them just to talk
openly about how
they feel about you
know a question like
I'm able to switch
off when I get home
at the end of the
day that might have
gone down point to
mark and so we'll
just chat and say
how's everyone going
there what's what's
what's happening here
and that is very
much I don't take
any credit for that
but I'm so supportive
of Ben doing that
because yes I just
feel like it's it's
just so common sense
to me like the
healthier and happier
they are the more
they will just and
it's not about making
them better at their
job
but it is one of the
results
yeah I love if you're
in the business of
teaching people those
things if you're not
running that that way
with your own team
it's never going to
work is it yeah
the fact that you
practice that so
clearly and you've
got the team you
have makes an
enormous amount of
sense to me you've
had some big visions
haven't you to take
on what you've done
and you've wandered
into over a thousand
schools and been
able to bring you
know this term
resilience and and
all those other key
attributes to the
world have you gone
about the imperfect
is another big vision
creating and sharing
that
that vision with the
team to bring it to
life there's a lot of
we do a lot of stuff
on especially the
resilience project on
vision and mission and
all that kind of stuff
but I think in a very
basic level so for the
imperfects we are
trying very hard to
create a show that we
love that's it we just
what what do we love
doing and what do we
love hearing and that's
what we try and
because that's the
easiest I mean that's
the I think that's the
best way to do it like
what do we love the
second you go and
what do people want to
hear right now what's
popular what what's
everyone talking about
I feel like that's
exhausting I reckon if
you're constantly chasing
what everyone if you
just go here's what we
love this makes us
laugh this makes us
cry this moves us this
teaches us something
let's just explore this
and it's kind of the
same the resilience
project I just loved
in the first instance
going to schools
getting to know the
staff getting to know
the kids putting
together a program that
would benefit that
school and that
community and that
school community that
was it for me and I've
tried it's hard to
scale now there's like
nearly 40 staff now but
we're still essentially
trying to create that
experience for any
school that joins us
it's just what is best
for this school how do
we improve the school
community how do we
improve the well-being
the school community and
it's it sounds very
cliche it's one one
school just one week
at a time one school
at a time and
everyone's got the
schools I look after
and that's kind of what
they do and I don't
think it's ever been
about let's be the
biggest well-being
program let's be the
it's just let's be
really let's be really
great in this school
here and then
tomorrow we have
that school let's be
really great in that
school and let's have
a really big
impact here and I
think with a podcast
it's just hey what
show do we want to
make let's make that
and if people listen
to it that's great
which they are it's
great and that way
you just enjoy it so
much more doing what
you want to do
yeah it's really
clear it's easy to
understand too isn't
it it narrows your
focus I feel like
you've done that for
many years with like
with your shows on
Triple M and the
footy I feel like you
guys are so good at
creating shows I
mean you hear you
guys laugh like you're
not putting it on like
it's very genuine you
are having so much
fun doing it it's
lightweight too it's
but I think you're
right I think that's
the key if you're
sitting there and
going what makes you
laugh what makes not
what you think could
possibly be for us
it's like the locker
room was a funny most
enjoyable funny yes
you just knew you
know if you had your
hair slightly as
you've been inside
those locker rooms
now someone's going to
call you out on that
ridiculous sledging but
good-natured sledging
it was saying stuff
you'd say to your
mates that could
probably inappropriate
in other places but it
was done with love
yeah that was
probably I reckon
when we've done that
at our best you feel
like you're sitting
back in the locker
room yeah and even
though at times it
sounds pretty full-on
but that's what the
audience I feel like
listen to you guys I
feel like I'm in the
locker room and I'm
not able to participate
which is probably the
way I like it I can
just sit back and
listen and laugh and
it's great I think it's
at its best when you're
aiming at each other
and I think when we
get it wrong is we
probably aim at people
outside and maybe
miss the context of it
right okay and then
it's gone wrong
occasionally is my
view yeah well
meaning yeah not
nasty but it's like I
can say stuff to
Nathan Brown or do
tripling 40 with that
is completely
inappropriate he moved
into my house when he
was 17 he's a
bogan from Bendigo
yeah we had to teach
him to just be normal
you know when he was
17 but we love him
he's yeah the success
he's had in life and
he's now a born-again
Christian or whatever
he is and you know
he's married this
beautiful partner so
we love but the
hanging shit part is a
fun part yes but done
with love yeah totally
he's probably you know
I don't think we say
that on triple M40
done with love but
but yeah again you
pull that out of me
man I sit across from
you and and and the
real language I
which comes out so I
think it's it's probably
yeah absolutely but
you know as a listener
like I'll say this on
the way up into this
studio but I listen to
triple M40 since I
remember I would go to
when I lived in
Richmond I would I
was like single living
apartment in Richmond
and I would always
take my headphones down
to this cafe at
midday on Saturdays
and I would just I
would listen to every
single show when I was
in India in 2008 I
would listen to the
we could find it
online I listened to
it and it was always
I think that's if it
wasn't done with love
I wouldn't have
listened to it I
wouldn't have liked
it if it was like
these guys are just
like
they're really at
each other it was
just yes
you can hear the
the good-natured part
of it I reckon even
delivered over the
journey and it
been a lot of fun to
do it curiosities
are where we use a
lot here and we see
that turn up a lot
with people and
they're just
inherently curious
and they're constantly
wanting to get better
and everything they
do through curiosity
is that you
yeah we one of our
values at Resonance
Project is curiosity
not not I didn't
suggest that that was
our partnerships
manager Kim Smiley
but yeah curiosity
is it's a big part
of the Resonance
Project and
it's become
I guess since I
first put my hand
up during COVID
and said I'm
really struggling
the first thing
happened was I
became immensely
curious around okay
well what do I do
now like it was
it was a very
strong feeling of
when I said I'm
not okay I
remember I
actually the
reason it happened
was I did an
interview on
Dave Hughes radio
show in Sydney
and it was
7.15 it was
during COVID
7.15 in the
morning and I
was struggling a
bit but I
hadn't really
set it out
loud and I
had an hour
and a half
sleep because
our daughter was
eight months at
time she wasn't
sleeping at all
and I wanted to
cancel the
interview because
I felt you know
when you use that
time you just
feel sick and
you just verbal
fluency is gone
and it's a problem
when you're trying
to interview and
I thought no I'll
just do it it's
fine it's gonna be
more trouble it's
worth to cancel
it and then at
the end he was
in Sydney he
said mate I
know you're in
Melbourne I
should probably
check hey how
are you and I
said I said I'm
totally and utterly
broken and I said
it and just cover
my mouth and went
oh shit what have
I done I'm the
resilience guy I
shouldn't have said
that and he they're
a comedy show
oh okay good
stuff mate well
we'll have a good
day chat to you
soon and they
were gone I
went and told
Penny when I
said I can't I
just don't I'm
just done I
don't have
people listen to
that show but
I've just said
to thousands of
people I'm not
okay this could
be a problem for
the resilience guy
but then instantly I
remember just feeling
so much better and
thinking okay so
what do I do what
do I do now so
whether it's you
yourself what do I
do for myself to be
better or your
organization or
people around you I
think
it's a lovely I
think you get to a
point I feel like
certainly my
upbringing and this
is a big
generalization but
going to a private
school and I know
it's not like this
anymore but certainly
back in the 90s it
kind of felt like you
get the best mark you
possibly can then you
go to university you
get the best job you
can you get paid as
much as you possibly
can get as many
promotions as you can
and then that's it
that's the that's
you're happy that's
it but I think a
lot of people when
they get in their
30s and 40s and
realize I've done all
that like I feel like
a lot of men in
their 40s and
40s or 50s go like
I've done everything
I was promised I was
told if I did this but
I'm like I'm missing
something here I feel
like I'm the minute
you sort of admit that
you then become curious
to okay what what else
could I be doing here
like I've had an
enormous success in my
career but what am I
missing what have I
missed out on and that
curiosity can lead you
to I think there's a
lot of curious people
in their 40s and 50s
going ah no no I'm
not pretending that I
know everything so I
could get the best so
I can climb the
corporate ladders
you know at times in
my 20s and 30s
people would ask me a
question and I'd
and I would say with
authority I had no
idea what I was
talking about but I'd
answer with authority
like oh yeah so what
you'll find actually is
the reason and I'm
like I look back and
go you didn't know
like you're just making
it up because you
wanted to sound like
you had all the
answers as soon as you
don't have all the
answers and the amount
of times I have a
staff meeting I'm
asked a question as
the founder of the
organization I just
go I've got no idea
who does anyone know
I don't know why
are you asking me and
it's just it's a much
more relaxing position
to come from but it
leads to curiosity
amongst the whole
group as well yeah
brilliant answer and I
think you allow people
that don't you by not
as you said I'm the
founder I've got to
say something here
now and it's disarming
to say I don't know
isn't it and then
empowering people to
ask that question
communicating with
clarity you get your
message out in such a
powerful way the
resilience project as
a brand to use a
marketing term I
actually hate that
term but it's in the
language now you've
become part of the
language and you
yourself have become
part of the language
how did you go about
that with your
communication?
We love stories human
beings love stories and
I you know I have
memories really strong
memories of growing up
we had this couch and
as a kid that literally
I don't know why we
didn't get a big one
but the family would
squeeze onto it like we
were just like the
person in the middle
would have to sit
forward so that we
could all and we
would squeeze onto
this couch and we
would watch Billy
Connolly the comedian
mum and dad just love
Billy Connolly so we
all did and in our
darkest times of my
sister's mental illness
we'd put Billy Connolly
on and I would be
watching Billy Connolly
but I'd also be
watching mum and dad
and just seeing just
how happy he made
them and how engaged
they were with him
and when I started
doing talks in
schools I
unashamedly copied
his style of like he
was just story after
story after story and
I'd try and make
them funny stories but
just I'll say
emotionally engaging
stories not all funny
some were like my
sister's story whatever
it was be quite
emotional but I'd be
emotional but I tried
to tell stories and
what I noticed from
doing you know four
or five talks a day
for over 10 years
people would go to
my talks with a pen
and paper because I
want to write stuff
down and the only
time they'll write
stuff down was when
I was saying here are
the statistics of
mental health or here
are the strategies but
when I was telling a
story they'd put the
pen and paper down
because we remember
stories they're not
going oh and his
sister was this age
and then this happened
to her because they
will remember we
remember stories we
we love stories you
know the only way I
can get my daughter
to into bed is
to say I'm going to
tell you a story and
I make up those
stories for her that's
and she just listens
to they're the worst
stories they're so
boring because I've
run out of ideas but
she will listen to
them and she loves
them and we as
humans we love
stories so we've
always I've always
said to anyone who
works with us we've
now got I think
there's about 10
people who go out
and present in
schools or workplaces
the majority of what
you say needs to be
a story like it has
to be a story that
that that threads
them the whole way
through your hour in
front of people because
that's what people
listen to.
That's what we
respond to so I know
exactly what you
mean when you say
the marketing the
marketing strategy or
the the brands I
know it it feels
icky to me but if
I was to say that
the resilience project
experience it's I
hope people well I'll
speak for me I hope
when people hear me
speak they feel like
they've been at the
pub holding a pint
listening to me talk
or at a cafe with a
coffee whatever their
reference point is
that when you catch
up with someone I
don't really drink
anymore but I have
the best memories of
standing at a
pub and I
have the beer in my
hand listening to
people just tell
stories the most it's
the it's the best
feeling and it's like
people take it in
terms to tell stories
and I don't know if
you've noticed this but
I reckon you know back
in the day playing
sport you could tell
a story you go for
20 minutes and people
stand over the pint
listen these days I
feel like when I go
back to my career
club now I feel like
my story's got a
maximum of 30 seconds
before it will lose
interest but it's
stories nonetheless and
so I hope that a bit
sidetracked here but
the people who hear
me or the resilience
project speak I hope
they don't feel like
they've been lectured
to I hope they don't
feel like they're
someone's trying to
impart knowledge on
them I hope someone's
not trying to they
don't feel like they're
watching a TED talk I
hope they feel like
they're at the pub or
at a cafe just having a
coffee with someone
a relatable story it's
a it's a great message
the art of storytelling
and for you to pick
that up and you must
have got pretty much
fit for four talks a
day I had the stuff
that I I was so
talking fit it was
just I could I could
do a talk on anything
at any point but now
I've sort of stopped
and pulled back and
it's I noticed that
they're like I'm unfit
I'm untalking fit it
also takes me a while
to get going but you
understand it might be
better than you than
you ever have done
before how important
collaboration been for
you and what you've
done yeah it's a
really interesting one
yeah really important
but I think it's a
funny word for me
because I never dared
when I started
resilience project
asking anyone to
collaborate because I
thought well a
collaboration a
partnership has to
benefit both people
both parties have to
benefit from it and I
think a lot of people
will forget that and
it's funny a lot of
people who I love
helping people out I
absolutely love it but
I'll often get people
saying how to start
this business it's a
mental health we should
we should collaborate
with resilience project
I'm like wow okay so I
totally get why that's
really good for you but
if we're going to spend
all this time together
like it needs to for a
partnership it's just if
it's a proper
collaboration partnership
both parties have to
feel like they're getting
something from it
otherwise I can help
here because I want to
help you and that's
really good but I think
after a while there
might be a bit of
resentment build and
resentment's an
awful feeling to have
towards anyone especially
someone who's trying to
do something really
good like they're
trying to do something
in mental health so I
think partnerships work
really well when you
have organizations who
are a similar level of
establishment yeah and
I don't want to I
think I'm sounding a
bit of an asshole
saying this but I
think a good
collaboration is when
both people both
parties are benefiting
so there's no
resentment at any
point and you're very
clear along the way
so collaboration we
have incredible
partners at resilience
project our
collaboration with
resilient youth who
have surveyed now I
think they survey about
with us I think that's
I think every student
who does our program
has comprehensive
rigorous well-being
assessments done
throughout the year
and we have the
most incredible data
on the schools and
the kids we work with
because of that
collaboration when
they first I don't
know who approached
her it was many
many years ago but
we'd both been in
industry for about
the same time we
both had similar
runs on the board
and it's just been
this really great
marriage product
dynamics it's
the number one
school diary company
in Australia so they
provide school diaries
this lovely girl who
works at Anushka
said to me once
she was at a
conference I was at
and she said we
provide diaries to
similar amount of
schools that you
go and do talks at
and she said we
could do something
together like we
could have your
stuff in our
diaries you could
reach more people
it'll make our
diaries better
and they now do
every school does
our curriculum if
you work with us
you do the
curriculum and
it's you know it's
like I don't know
how many people
how many kids but
it's that's like
probably close to
three or four hundred
thousand kids doing
it every single day
and they've got the
product dynamic
diary so there's
great collaboration
and partnership with
them I think
it's not to
discourage people
from reaching out
to people that
look up to me to
say hey like I
love what you're
doing I just think
the best partnerships
in my experience
are the ones where
you're both
benefiting
it's a great way
to explain and I
think it everything
finds its level
yes and you get
in trouble when
you're not isn't
as you said it's
great to try and be
aspirational and
that's different
isn't it maybe
reaching out for
someone for some
advice but
collaborations do
work whenever and
almost benefit equally
yes the more equal
it is the better the
collaboration most
times isn't it
it's a bit like you
and Ryan Sheldon on
is a great
collaboration probably
because at the right
time you know if
you had gone to
Hamish and said I
want to start a
podcast that maybe
wasn't
it's that yeah
that's great for me
great for everyone
who wants to do a
podcast but
yeah that is
actually the perfect
example I feel like
Ryan had so many
runs on the board
in the
comedy space
wasn't doing a
podcast I feel like
I had a few runs
on the board with
mental health space
and storytelling and
my brother Josh who
was in it from day
one as our tech
support person
started the tech
support person he
had so many runs
on the board as
someone who told
stories through
videography and
creating ads and
stories for
organizations and
we came together
with like yeah I
think we can and
then Bridget comes
to us who has
been producing
Masterchef she's
producing your
shows producing
radio for 10
years and
similar level of
experience we all
brought different
stuff to the table
and it's a great
I mean I feel like
our podcast works
because I can talk
about heavy stuff
and Ryan can take
the piss out of me
straight away and
it's accessible to
anyone because of
that so that is a
really nice example
of a collaboration
it's such a good
example like I
wouldn't go to the
best podcaster in
Australia and go
hey we should
collaborate because
it's like well mate
yeah I can see
that's great for
you what am I
getting like so
it's a great example
who's been the
greatest leader in
your life
oh my gosh it's a
very cliche answer
but mum and dad
mum and dad would
be that for me
I mean the best
leader I've ever
worked with is
Billy Slater
we did a whole
episode on his
leadership on the
Imperfects that came
out a few weeks
ago he's the best
leader I've ever
seen and I've never
seen anything like
it and I'm happy
to come back and
do a whole series
on him if you'd
like because he
is extraordinary
but leadership in
my life has been
I've seen friends
as well like mates
who have taught
me stuff from a
young age I'm not
really that close
to them anymore
we're still in a
WhatsApp group
together this guy
I went to school
with called Paddo
who we became
mates in year 8
and he taught me
to stand up for
what I believe in
like he just did
that from a young
age and I was
like that's really
great I love that
one of my best
mates still this guy
called Collo who
Tim Collins who
he was such a
great listener and
he would ask when
he's 20 he taught
me how to have
conversations with
adults he just
asked so many
questions he still
does the weirdest
questions but he's
still asking
questions Dolly
one of my best
mates who who
has just taught
me how to be a
loyal friend Luke
North one of my
really good mates
who taught me
about confidence
like believing in
yourself it helped
he's still the most
beautiful man I've
ever seen but like
you know just mates
like friends of
mine great leaders
I'm fascinated by
that answer I love
it it's like you're
picking out the
things that you
have got from your
great people in the
world and it's nice
to go back and
acknowledge that
isn't it that I'm
a better person
because we often
say that you're
some of the five
people you spend
the most time with
and I believe that
I think you've just
articulated that
do I haven't done
I've never actually
told that to them
to them that's my
next I have to do
that I'll give
myself a month I
need to start to
them
we'll get him
you
mom and dad very
quickly I just have
to I've started with
them so just to
elaborate on that I
mean my dad I've
never met a more
humble person that
to me is that's one
of the values the
resilience project
that was like my
absolute when we
first did that was
like that's it I
don't we're not
discussing it that's
humility that is
it's we're a humble
group and mom mom
is just so mom's a
great storyteller
herself I love the
stories and she's
just so fiercely
loyal and loves you
know her version of
how to love someone
is like I hope my
kids feel loved
from me the same
way that I feel
from mom that's
what I really hope
and that I mean
that's the most
important relationships
in my life and my
mom and dad have
taught me how to
mom and dad have
taught me how to
be in this stage
of my life now
which is the most
important stage of
my life so you
have to say they're
the most important
leaders in my life
and I love asking
that question because
it's it's I love
that goes out into
into the air and
and hopefully they
get to hear that
because it's something
that we probably
don't spend enough
time doing I'll
clip it up for them
we'll send it out
we're a bit obsessed
with collaboration as
you know from the
leader program we've
loved having you
in it and and
you've got access to
be able to do that
in so many different
areas and I love
you know you turn
up you know trying
to break a national
running record you
start a podcast and
you've got friendships
and such an
interesting life but
if you thought god
for this passion in
my life I love
to collaborate with
someone is there a
name that springs to
mind in any of the
areas that you're
passionate about
what a great question
so I mean I have
to say like when
you asked about
collaboration before
I feel like I went
with a negative
straight away as in
like here's what
doesn't work yeah
I mean collaboration
has led to all the
best things in my
life really like it
really has so it's
a it's it's good
good good
collaborations are
everything gosh
who do I collaborate
with the most um
I don't really know
who I am right now
I don't really know
what I like I know
I do this podcast
which reaches a few
people but then the
resilience project it
does something very
different sort of so
it's like I don't
really know I don't
know how to answer
that question I'm
still trying to work
out what exactly it
is that I do to
then go right so
who else is doing
that I heard I
collaborate with
but my hero is
Billy Connolly he is
my absolute hero so
the lazy way of
answering a question
is like he's the
person I'd like to
interview most on our
podcast and I don't
think we'll ever get
the chance I know
he's very unwell
yeah but I mean he
taught me nine
tenths of my job
really he really did
and I don't know if
doing an interview
with someone is
collaborating I don't
know if it's a
collaboration I think
it probably is when
you reach a lot of
people after you
Darce probably
Billy Connolly
I was waiting for
that mate I was
waiting for that
well I feel very
honored that you've
taken the time I
know you've got
enormous amounts of
things going on in
such a positive way
it's an incredible
story always love
spending any time
with you appreciate
you jumping into the
elitist space open
heartily like you did
and love all the
things that you're
doing thanks for
joining me mate I
really appreciate it
no it's a pleasure I
love when Andy first
told me about it I
remember he explained
it and I just I
thought gosh the
first thing to
me I was like what
did I think of that
what an incredible
idea to connect
people just over
zoom from anywhere
around the world who
who can help each
other like and be
there for each other
and it's been a
wonderful thing to be
part of and I love I
love the people in my
group and I love what
they do and I love
their unique perspective
and I love that they're
willing to share that
with me and I'm
undoubtedly a better
person because of that
and yeah to you and
Matty I just thank you
so much for having a
part of it and thanks
for this conversation
today because I
listened to this
podcast and it's
yeah it's always it's
always nice when you
do a podcast you
listen to it feels
like a bit exciting
thanks for listening to
another episode of the
empowering leaders
podcast huge thanks as
always to our great
friends at temper and
we encourage you to
check out our leader
connect program new
episodes are out every
Wednesday morning at
6 a.m.
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