I hope you enjoy this episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast
with Harry Kuehl, one of Australia's greatest ever sportsmen
and arguably the greatest ever soccer player
who blazed a trail for many others to follow.
You hear Harry talk openly about how he almost never reflects
on his playing career, but it was his famous work ethic
that saw him leave everything out on the training field
and the pitch on game day.
He describes Ange Postacoglu as the nicest person in the world,
talks about his love of being a father of four,
making bolognese, attending fancy dress parties
and being an Uber driver for his four kids.
You can hear him talk also about the superpower
of never ever letting any critic worry him ever,
but only wanting to impress his wife and his boss,
are the words of Harry Kuehl.
We love that Harry Kuehl is part of our Alita Connect
sitting to leadership program,
and we would love to connect with you in Alita Connect as well.
Have a look at our website, go to alitacollective.com
and book a discovery call with us today.
We'd love to have that conversation with you.
You hear Harry talk about his Alita Connect group.
Simon Goodwin is in this group,
the coach of the Melbourne Football Club,
premiership winning coach, superstar AFL player
in his time as well.
Fleur McIntyre, who's been on this podcast,
who was the first female coach with the Sydney Kings
to win a championship in the National Basketball League.
Andrew Borovic, who's doing great things in his role
for Cricket Australia.
Jan Sterling, a legend of Australian basketball as well.
Formed part of the group with Harry Kuehl
that he talks about in this podcast.
You don't have to be a world leader.
You don't have to be a leading coach
or a superstar to be part of Alita Connect.
We are curating groups every week
and we love talking and connecting with entrepreneurs,
social venture leaders, sports people,
diverse thinkers from the arts and many, many more.
We come together to learn, to share and to collaborate.
Love to do that with you as well.
Huge thanks as always to Jason Nicholas
and his team from Temper Bedding Australia New Zealand.
Successful leaders like Harry Kuehl
understand the importance of good sleep
and investing in a temper mattress
is a mattress-like success.
Like no other, it is a life-changing decision.
Huge thanks to the team at Temper
for supporting conversations like this
with Australian soccer legend, Harry Kuehl.
Harry Kuehl is a Sport Australia Hall of Famer
recognised as Australia's greatest ever footballer
of the round ball variety.
In 1999, while playing for Leeds United
in the English Premier League,
Harry was recognised as the Premier League's
Young Player of the Year.
He was selected in the Premier League Team of the Year
and generally considered to be the best player
in the Premier League.
He was recognised as the Premier League Team of the Year
and generally considered to be the best player
and generally considered at the time
as one of the best players in the world.
He's a father of four,
married to well-known English actress,
scored 17 goals in his 58 matches for Australia.
And Harry Kuehl is currently the first team manager
with the famous Celtic Football Club in Scotland,
having previously taken on a number
of top-level managerial roles in the UK.
Harry, great to catch up with you.
Thanks for your time.
The only thing I would pull you up on there
is I'm a first-team coach.
I haven't made that jump yet,
but looking forward to the challenges.
Well, there you go.
In the future, mate, I can see the manager role,
which is, I'm going to ask you about that shortly,
but one of my old friends is one of your Australian teammates,
John Aloisi, went to school together.
And I remember talking with him about you
and he described you at your best
as literally in the best handful of players in the world,
which I said in the intro, it's high praise.
Do you look back and think that you genuinely had a gift
for the world game like very few have?
You know, it's interesting because when I look back,
I don't see that, you know,
because I've always kind of don't worry about the past.
I kind of always look for the future
and to see what kind of situation I'm in at the moment.
And when I do sit down and, you know,
I speak about players or I talk about certain things
and whether I'm with my friends or with certain coaches,
you know, they'll always remind me.
They go, well, Harry,
you used to be able to do that or you've done that
or you were this.
And it's nice to reflect.
I don't reflect too much.
And sometimes it's a shame
because I think it's nice to look back on your career
and see the achievements that you have achieved.
I don't go back as often as I would like to go back
because like I said,
I'm always worried about my next challenge
and trying to improve the people
that I'm working with at the moment.
Harry, you're famous for your work ethic
and your attention to detail
and your personality.
What were the skills that allowed you to play the game
at such a high level in your mind?
Again, I think you just touched on it there,
You know, I was willing to work harder than my opponent,
you know, or my teammate.
You know, I was the one that always wanted to work.
I needed to work.
I wasn't one of these that could, you know,
if we took a normal week of football
and you talked about, you know, Monday, Tuesday training,
Wednesday off, Thursday, Friday, Saturday game,
I needed to work all the way up until that Saturday.
Like on Friday, I needed to feel exhausted.
I needed to come off the pitch dripping with sweat,
felt that, you know, I've done everything possible
to go out there on the Saturday
and that's when I felt good.
When I wasn't playing well,
it was the times when people stopped me from working.
It's interesting now because back in the day,
it was, you know, what was good for one person
was good for the whole team.
And when we look at football in today's,
in the modern game,
we break it down to a lot of individual work,
what certain people need to get the best out of them.
And I was one of them back in the day
that needed to work constantly.
And my attitude was, and I hate the saying,
when people say, you know, you know,
nine times out of 10, you may fail.
It's just that one time, you know, that you may get it.
Whereas I was, well, I wasn't going to go to 10.
I was going to go to 14, 15, 16, 17 times and keep going.
Until I actually beat my opponent.
So that was my kind of attitude.
And, you know, as much as people say I was gifted and all that,
yes, I could see a pass.
I can move around.
But it was only because I worked hard at my job.
And Harry, you look back at that incredible time at Leeds United,
you and another Australian legend, Mark Paducah,
were dominating the English Premier League.
And you then got struck down by a whole series of injuries
that took its toll, as they do for any professional athlete.
Is there any regret for you in that?
When you look back, that maybe that did cut you down a little bit
short of what your prime was?
Well, again, I go back and, you know,
I think I had 14 operations in my career,
which would hinder someone's progress in a sporting environment.
There's two ways I look at this.
In hindsight, I would love to have seen what I was capable of doing.
If I could have just put the,
the injuries aside and just to,
to be able to have played free and,
even to have played a World Cup in no pain,
I missed out on the 98 in the 2002 when I was fully fit.
And then obviously 2006 and 2010,
I was injured in both of them and I was always fighting to come back.
So I would have loved to have known what I was capable of doing because I was
never afraid to play anywhere.
I was never afraid to play against anybody.
never afraid to have mixed it with,
with the very best.
So on that side of it,
I would have loved to have seen what I was capable of doing.
But then I look at myself and I,
I look at my career,
and I've had the very best of football,
where everything was done for me,
everything was perfect.
And then I've also seen that the ugly side of football where everyone kind of
forgets about you and you've got to be able to,
make it yourself.
I've become a better person.
Because I've seen that the highs and the lows of football.
I wouldn't change my career path,
but I would like to have seen,
just seeing what it could have been if I wasn't injured.
It's interesting you talk about the highs and lows of your career and the highs
were as high as it gets.
lots of challenges along the way.
And there's always plenty of critics that last time I saw you,
I'm not sure if you remember,
it was the world cup in Rio de Janeiro.
you were generous enough to come round to,
we were broadcasting for there,
Mick Molloy and I,
and always a lot of fun.
And we had you come and join us,
but I remember it was right at the end of your career.
And I think you had this really open conversation.
this is the first time in my life I haven't had a team around me booking my flights or
organising transport,
or it was almost like it had dawned on you,
the new chapter was coming,
people mightn't understand how big a shift was it you going away from being,
a champion player to the next chapter.
How hard was that?
I wouldn't say it was like extremely tough,
it's something that we've,
we've always had everything on tap as a footballer,
because we go in there and we've been paid to do a job and we get looked after.
we've got doctors,
we've got physios,
we've got masseurs,
We have everything on tap at 24 seven.
it doesn't even matter.
Like even in today's one.
Now you can take food home that the chefs cook and you don't even have to cook
So I'll play it literally all he has to do.
And when you think about a play in this day and age,
all he has to do is wake up,
he gets told what to wear virtually the cars now drive you into training
you get told what to do on the training pitch.
You get told what to eat,
you get told how to recover.
You get told when to sleep,
you get told when to wake up,
everything's run by schedule.
Now it wasn't run as slick as that back in the day,
but it was almost.
So when you've lived your life,
since I was 16 coming into a world and that was all,
you kind of know it was strange coming out of it.
And I always tell the one story that always pops into my
head when I did finish football and I was ill.
And obviously I didn't have a doctor on call,
cause I was used to having a doctor 24 seven.
I could bring my doctor and say,
And tablets would come or anything would come straight to my house or I'd have
But everything was there and I remember it ill and I said to my
I don't feel well.
we'll go to the doctor.
I remember going to the doctor and I lined up and I didn't
have a clue what to do.
So I went to the big tablet and I put my name and
address in and my date of birth and all that.
And I come back and I said,
your next appointment is in two weeks.
I'm healthy by in two weeks.
I need to see a doctor now.
So I called the receptionist and I said,
I don't know if I've done this right.
that's the next available appointment.
I ain't going to be ill by then.
I'm ill now as well.
That's I'm sorry.
That's what it is.
So that was like,
That's the real world.
That's how it works.
People may think,
spoiled this and that,
but you get brought up in a world where everything's done for you because you
have to concentrate solely on your job.
it's interesting.
you do understand why sometimes,
athletes do struggle when they come out of,
If they don't fall in love with something straight away,
or if they don't have a hobby,
they can kind of,
it's quite lonely out there.
And you look at your upbringing,
how are you from the Western Sydney,
very humble beginnings,
and you earn multimillion pounds,
playing in the English premier league.
and with that Harry comes an enormous amount of tension.
You walk down the street,
you're one of the most recognized athletes in the,
And that world has a lot of sharks around too.
Harry people are always wanting to sell your things or get into business
it's a dubious world of management.
how did you handle all of that at its peak?
There must've been a lot of,
distraction and some trappings that you had to work your way through.
And unfortunately,
you're always going to make mistakes along the way of your life.
and that's the only way you learn.
I'd be very surprised if there's one person at the age of,
that hasn't made a mistake,
who hasn't lost money in,
in something or who hasn't won money in certain things,
So I think it's just all about learning.
The one thing that I've been lucky enough to have is a,
a great financial advisor.
I had met him when I was 17 years old and I still have them to
And I've learned a lot from him.
I wasn't one of these that just soon as my money got my
I did this or I did that.
I always wanted to know what it was,
what it was earning,
How can I improve it?
So I learned that side of it,
not to the degree of,
being a mastermind of it,
but I do know where every penny of mine is.
so now I think that's important,
especially when you are growing up,
especially as you're young,
because there are a lot of people out there that will take
advantage of you.
And we're actually seeing a lot of footballers out there now
that have become bankrupt,
not because of their own doing,
but because of other people have manipulated,
manipulated them in a certain way to invest into certain things.
they've lost a lot of money and they've had to restart.
So I have to say that I've,
I've been fortunate enough to have met a very good person
that I still keep in mind.
We just had my last meeting was yesterday with him.
on top of that stuff,
but you have to be very careful out there.
I think the stats,
when you look at a lot of us athletes,
the amount that end up with nothing post their career,
having earned millions and millions of dollars,
by the end of it,
remarkable amount end up with next to nothing.
to have someone in your life like that,
that you've been able to trust financially is a genuine gift.
The first team coach at Celtic,
I did elevate you to manager,
one of the most passionately supported,
sporting organizations in the world,
Can you tell us about what it's like for you coaching at that famous club?
and what's your leadership style,
Now is someone who's in charge of young,
how do you go about it?
it's interesting.
I remember obviously getting the call from Ange,
last year and coming to work.
I was so excited because it was kind of out of the blue.
I was actually dealing with,
maybe going into another job at that time.
And then when obviously I got the message from Ange to come up and join his
I thought it was too good of an opportunity,
and to obviously be around,
very historical club,
that has been there,
challenges for titles in champions league.
I just thought it would,
it would be the right kind of move for me to be able to go up there and
see what a first team,
environment is like in the coaching side of it.
And it's been amazing.
I have to say that the people up there are fantastic.
I know it's very much Celtic ranges up there and you get the odd kind of,
other fans scattered around.
But I've been in that environment before,
especially over in Turkey,
where it's so much,
it's just Galatasaray,
Fenerbahce or Pashitas.
They're the main clubs.
So I've been in an environment where you go into cities and you have to,
you're walking past a certain person.
You don't know whether he's Rangers or Celtic and all that.
I've always been that kind of person that's open.
So I've never had any problems,
especially when I've gone up there.
but going into the,
the football club itself,
working with top quality players that are international players,
it was an eye opener because when I was working at the low levels,
you're having to work with players and you're wanting to improve them and you
can see a massive difference.
you really have to knuckle down and do a lot of video work and analyze their
game to just improve them slightly because they're so much of a quality player
So that's been a kind of a different kind of,
whereas I've looked at a team before,
whereas now I look at more individuals and see if I can improve them on,
especially the wingers.
I work very closely with the wingers up there,
which is important for me to get my ideas across.
But the most important thing I've found is that the,
the player has to be involved in this.
I wouldn't want to work with a player that is just like,
I'll do my video and that's it.
I need players to,
I need players to be asking questions and you know,
I've been lucky enough to have about five or six players up there that really
want to take the information that I have and apply it to their game.
you mentioned Ang Sposter Coghlu who had the great privilege of sitting down
with and remarkable success story.
Ang in every place that he's gone,
he's won all around the world and in Japan and his success in Australia.
And then what he did with you up in Celtic and had a great start to his time.
Tell us about that,
you missed out on a world cup team where Ang was,
Was there some sort of sense that maybe this was,
you're one Harry,
I need to get you back on my team.
And I think I read,
you said within two days you knew exactly what Ang Sposter Coghlu was about,
and you could coach his team because he communicated so clearly in two days.
Tell us a bit about all that.
I go back to the,
that famous coffee where I had in Melbourne down at the pantry in Brighton,
where I was sitting in and I had met him for the first time.
And our paths nearly crossed over a few times,
especially at Melbourne victory.
they didn't quite get there cause there were certain things that,
I had to come back for.
But I remember sitting down there and to be honest with,
you're not in my plans for the world cup.
I'm not going to lie.
Cause I still felt I had at least one more world cup and whether I would have
started or whether I could have just been that person to have helped the younger
but at the end of the day,
I've always respected my managers and I've always respected their decision.
And I think that's what he liked.
I didn't cause a fuss.
I would have loved to have been there,
if that's not the case,
I wish you all the best.
And I think he kind of must've,
taken that on board for him,
I'd like to be able to throw out and help you now again.
so when I did get that call,
the message that he did send me was,
once I looked at,
I remember showing my wife and I was like,
how can I turn this down?
I can't turn this down.
Cause he speaks very well.
He is as much as,
as I see two sides to Ange,
the manager that he is,
but he's also like,
kind of like a father figure.
He's got that kind of lovely,
And don't get me wrong.
I've seen him on both sides where the aura is completely disappeared.
I ain't nowhere near him today because he's just not there.
So I've seen both sides of him and it's,
and if I take the,
the lovely side in which he probably won't want a lot of people to know,
but he is one of the nicest people.
you'll ever meet any like when you speak to him,
he's actually genuine,
But then when you do speak to him about the work side of it,
he knows what he wants.
And that's the thing that when I,
when I had moments with him,
when I was speaking to him,
he kind of put me back on track of how I was when I was
this is what I want.
This is how I want to do it.
And then I kind of drifted off into my own,
maybe listening to him,
maybe one or two other people,
listening to this and all that.
Whereas he's kind of gone,
this is what you need to do.
This is how you need to do it.
Because at the end of the day,
you're the manager.
You need to be able to put it down because there's only one person that's
going to get sacked.
And so he's kind of vision of,
his tunnel tunnel vision,
put me back on track of how I want to go back into it.
you go back to even his organization,
they're out there.
they're very plain to see,
but they're very clear.
And that's what a lot of people,
a lot of footballers want to want to know.
Great players just want to know what's my job.
What do you want me to do?
And if you can tell me exactly what I need to,
I'll go out there and execute it.
And I think that's what he delivers.
He delivers a clear message out there that this is what I want.
If you don't do it,
I will get someone else will come in and do it.
it would have been great if I was younger,
I would have liked to have played for him,
but I look back at when he got rid of me from the
I honestly think I could have done a job for him,
but technically I don't think I could have,
because the way he wanted to play,
I was always a player that loves to drop off and receive
the ball in turn where he likes a lot of runners.
Whereas I could have done it when I was younger,
but maybe not as old as I was at that time.
everything works out for a reason.
so me not kicking up a fast or anything like that,
he's probably looked at that and thought,
he deserves an opportunity to come and work with me,
I'll always be very thankful for.
He's gone and had an immediate impact.
It seems that Tottenham Hotspur on the early days,
but the way the supporters embrace him,
it seems he's an incredible communicator.
I think he's a masterclass when you see him at a press
he's got that way where he's unashamedly himself.
can he have the ultimate success in,
in the English Premier League?
Of course there's no reason why,
it's very early on.
And when everyone keeps going about him being he's,
a new coach in the Premier League,
and he emphasises the fact that he's been doing this for over 30
his journey hasn't gone as planned as maybe as someone else's,
but he has gone and done it the hard way for me.
He knows exactly what he's doing.
it's very early on at the moment,
but the one thing that I think Tottenham fans have been
crying out for over the last maybe four or five
Tottenham were a team that actually played football.
They were a team that,
played out from the back,
always wanted to play forward,
always wanted to play football.
And recently they've had a few managers who are very successful managers.
They play a different style to what Spurs are used to.
And I think that was a lot of the frustration.
Whereas the Ang is a complete,
He wants his team to hold possession,
control possession,
win it up there in the final third and be able to react quickly.
So that's what Spurs are like back in the day.
He's just bringing that back to them.
we can't get too carried away.
we all hope he succeeds,
but it's going to be very tough for him because the Premier League is not an easy team.
You can't tell me that every time you look at the fixtures week in,
week out that you can pick a guy.
there's probably only one team that you would sit there and go,
And that's probably Man City.
you just don't know what could happen.
it's going to be a very tough season for,
he's got off to a fantastic start,
but he's got a very long way to go.
And he knows that.
And the one thing he's fantastic at,
is communicating with the media,
And he knows exactly what they want and he can deliver that.
Robbie Williams singing songs about him already.
So it's been an incredible start.
Harry and I think everyone in Australia now follows where Ange goes.
We got introduced through Celtic,
through him and you are now to Tottenham Hotspur.
Those that aren't necessarily rusted on to,
to the Premier League.
it's been great to connect with you in a program.
We call a leader connect that was co-founded with my great friend,
So we curate these groups around the world,
people from different backgrounds that come together to sort of learn and
connect and to share.
we think in a pretty profound way.
the group that you're in Simon Goodwin,
someone I know really well.
He's had great success as a,
as an AFL senior coach was an outstanding player in,
in Australian rules football,
a multiple premiership winner.
Andre Borovic from cricket.
Australia's got a great reputation.
Fleur McIntyre from the Sydney Kings is quite a remarkable person.
Jan Stirling from basketball,
and you get together Harry to,
to sort of connect and share experiences in this format.
Can you tell us about a leader connect?
What's it been like for you?
It's actually been interesting.
I think it's been a lot of fun.
I think it's been a lot of fun.
I think it's been a lot of fun.
and I say this because I'm kind of the odd one out in this group.
and I say that only because of the environment I'm in.
how I felt that I was struggling in my career,
because I feel dealing with players is,
is easy because that's,
making it better.
It's easy for me.
It was dealing with the,
the higher people,
especially of the,
the level of where I was at,
especially league two and league one.
it's very difficult to deal with people that may have not have been where you
have been into professionalism.
So you've had to kind of manipulate yourself in a certain way to,
to speak to them.
And I found that very difficult,
but speaking to the group,
they had helped me understand certain patterns and certain movements or
You can actually entice them into doing it and kind of opening up that way.
we love that Harry.
And that's what we think is valuable is that diverse thinking.
clearly unique what you're doing in,
but the idea of how you treat people and how you can,
as you described,
beautifully there,
the idea of how you are able to overlay someone else's world to support your
It's been brilliant to connect with on that front.
a proud father of four.
what do you like on the home front,
You're back in Manchester,
with the family and the family's growing up.
what sort of leader are you on the home front?
I would love to say I run the ship,
but I don't and give the old lad.
but very much hands on.
I'm the Uber driver,
I enjoy that stuff because it takes my mind off football.
even this morning,
so my wife has to work.
She's got to go down to London today.
So I dropped the,
my girls off at school today and I'll pick them up.
I'm on chef duty.
So I'm cooking a nice spaghetti bolognese.
For everyone tonight.
My other daughter's got to go down to London.
She's got to pick her keys up for her apartment,
but she's back up later.
I'm going to a fancy dress party on Saturday.
So I've got to go pick up some stuff from my wife's friend.
I've got to go pick up a couple of fans because absolutely roasting over here at the moment.
We don't have data.
So I'm kind of that person.
I've already done the dogs as well.
So I fed them and taken them out.
I've got gardeners in my garden,
building some decking that my wife's done.
so I've got no problem with it.
You're making us look bad,
that's going to cause us a lot of problem,
You're doing everything.
otherwise I just sit around and I get bored.
I'll go to the gym.
I just did about a 40,
40 minute gym session before I came on with you.
I'm actually into running at the moment.
I'm up to about 55 minutes running,
cause I could never run longer than 10 minutes.
cause everything's broken down with running with,
with a footballer,
you're always running even a minute,
Cause even in a game,
you're always running,
walking this out,
but I've decided to actually just see how far I can actually run.
And the best I've done so far is 55 minutes.
So I'm trying to get up to about an hour and a half of just,
it's not quick running.
steady pace running.
That just keeps me ticking over.
It's great to hear that the family's good,
We have one of our coaches,
one of the leaders in this forum,
success leaves clues.
And that's really the basis of a leader connect.
And we want to pick up a lot of the wisdom that you've got.
You've got an incredible relationship with your players.
I read about the Celtic players and how much they value your impact.
And so there's a series of patterns.
We think that leadership looks like and shows up regularly.
And we start Harry with this idea of self leadership.
It's hard to achieve what you've achieved,
in your life without a sense of burnout,
what do you think of when I ask you about self leadership?
I just try to live my life.
How I don't know.
I just try to be like a good person.
I try to lead by example.
that person that will get up in the morning and make my bed straight away.
especially when I'm up in Scotland,
I'll make my bed,
straight away because they always say you make your bed straight away.
You've accomplished something already,
it's things like that.
I try to get into routine,
I'm very much a routine person because I,
my whole life's been a routine,
I try to keep myself on that.
And the only time I really span out of being in a routine is only when I go on
And then that's when I eat a lot and,
have to have some drinks and,
you go to parties and all that.
but then you feel kind of rubbish,
you're about yourself.
So I like to keep in a routine and I feel stronger that way.
And then I think if,
if you keep yourself in a routine and it doesn't have to be like army style
if you can just keep yourself in a nice routine,
do the simple things and just slowly build it up.
the one thing that I've always loved to do,
especially when I was younger is I always loved to push myself,
and that's how my work ethic was.
I was never one to,
I was always that kind of mindset that if I did a,
let's just say three minutes,
the next day I had to do it in two 59.
Then the next day I had to do in two 58 and each day.
And that's how that was my mindset.
Now I'm a lot older.
I kind of back off at that.
And I just try to keep a bit more simple and,
when I go to Celtic,
I'll still get up at six 30.
I'll still go in.
I'll do a workout.
I'll just have my routine.
And then I feel better.
and I think if you can feel better in yourself,
that's when you can start being more positive towards people,
whether you meet them for the first time or whether you're working with them
you go in there and you're feeling tired.
You're feeling lazy.
You're feeling not good about yourself.
You can't project energy off yourself into them because they're just going to
see straight through you.
They need to be able to see someone think,
look at this guy.
If they're looking opposite you,
I'm not picking up that bite,
but you're seeing some positive,
really taking pride in their work that they're trying to show you about your
I would love that.
I would switch off.
If someone would just come in there and was like,
I'll switch off straight away.
But if someone come in and said,
in one of my mates always says,
and he always makes me laugh to this day.
every time I bring him,
but that makes you laugh.
So I've taken like,
he's always told me this about six years ago.
So every time I go up to self,
that's the reaction you get.
And it makes them laugh.
And it just gets them go,
And I just think putting people on the,
on the right foot straight away in the first thing in the morning,
when you meet them is always a great start.
you never want to meet someone in the morning.
I don't really want to know what's happening in his life at the moment.
Cause I've got my own problems,
and that's how it is.
But you get someone that's a bit bubbly guy.
Then you have a quick chat and then you get on with your life.
Brilliant answer,
I can see that in you and it does lead into the next dimension,
which you probably touched on straight away.
Having a positive impact on others is,
is something we see,
people who are really successful are conscious of that,
And you just described it,
I can awesome give someone that feeling straight away.
what other ways do you think about,
we just heard about what you do for your family on a daily basis,
but it's clearly something you think about having a positive impact.
even when I like,
I sit down with my players,
so I'll sit down opposite them.
even when I started to speak to my ADA dies and my ADA,
I was honest with him from the start.
this is a two way conversation because this ain't going to work if it's only a
conversation of me telling you what I think.
I expect us to have arguments.
I expect us to not be agree on every point.
I'm going to always have my opinion,
but I need you to have your opinion as well.
even though we have a translator,
We have that communication.
Even when last year,
when I had Jotter as well,
that's what he needed.
Cause I'm not the manager.
I'm a coach because it's not my job to be able to tell him off on certain
I'm here to make him a better person.
So when I like clip all these clips in the game,
I'll sit there and watch him and I will give him little movement patterns,
he may know or may not know things that I did,
but then what I did,
he may not be able to do things that he does.
So it's kind of about me trying to get that right mixture to get him to be
able to understand it.
And then ultimately you go out there and work on it,
but it has to be a two way relationship.
if you don't bring that energy or that positivity,
you're going to lose them straight away,
especially footballers.
And you don't get to achieve the level that you have,
without creating and sharing a vision for what you want to achieve.
And you're doing that in the coaching path at the moment with Celtic and
you've had your own teams in the,
Have you gone about sort of sharing the vision that you want for the things
that you want to achieve?
I'm a creative person.
I was a creative player.
And that's the one thing as me being a manager,
I've always written everything.
Like I always wrote everything down,
but I never really like how to play.
the one thing that always amazes me is when I used to go,
go for jobs and people go,
how do you do this?
I don't know what team have I got?
What players have I got?
And that was one thing.
So that people say,
you must have a certain style.
Of course I have a certain style of how I want to play,
but if I don't have them players,
then how am I supposed to be able to play that I want to play?
you got to be able to be adaptive,
especially at the start.
So that was me as a coach.
But then as I've gone into a player,
an individual coach,
I've looked at it a completely different ways where I'm looking at movement
I'm looking at body language.
I'm looking at shifting defenders and I'm only going through experience of what
I got taught when I was younger.
And I go back to,
even when I got taught how to strike a ball or the cross the ball,
or the volleyball,
these things got broken down for me,
like where my foot got,
how my foot had to be placed,
how my knee had to be bent,
how my shoulder had to be pointed.
And I don't know.
I've always remembered it.
I've always remembered it.
and I knew how to do it because the one thing I could do in the game was I was
a very good striker of the ball and a very good cross.
So when you put me in situation,
I can tell when my wingers don't cross the ball properly.
I can just hear by the noise of the ball.
I can see by the pattern of how the ball slides across the grass and I'll just
And then when they hit it,
do you hear the sound?
And then even now they're listening to the sound of it.
So it's not about me having all this information and not sharing it.
I will share anything with anybody if they're willing to learn,
and I think that's the important thing is that's why I always say it's got to
a two way street.
Cause if it's not,
then you're just talking to,
to deaf ears and don't get me wrong.
I've got one or two players up there that are not interested.
they will sit there and you do a drill with them and all that.
if they need anything,
they'll come to you,
but then you have the other ones that really want to learn.
And you just put all your energy and effort into them.
And that leads into something.
We see another really common trait of leaders,
around being curious and,
and through being curious,
they're always wanting to learn and they approach their constant learning and
improvement through curiosity.
Does that ring true with you being curious?
to a point because I don't think I need to invent the wheel again because
striking a ball back in the 1970s is no different to striking a ball now.
it's like boxing,
you throw a punch,
there's no difference.
there's not another way of striking a ball.
you have to be able to get the,
the right technique,
there's not too many things you need to change in it.
You just need to make sure that they understand exactly what they're missing because there's a lot of,
I can tell you now,
there's a lot of players out there that have never been taught how to strike a ball or head a ball.
I remember even when I was at Watford under 21s,
getting my group in there,
and I think we had lost the game and I was angry with them.
And I remember sitting there with them and looking at them and I said,
how can you not head a ball?
how can you not head a ball?
you're playing at like under 21s for Watford,
a Premier League club,
and you cannot head a ball.
one of the players,
and he was a Welsh international at the time,
he put his hand up and goes,
I've never been taught.
I got taught how to head a ball.
I got taught how to volley.
I got taught how to throw down.
And I just think this day and age now,
especially a lot of coaches,
everybody wants to play ticky tacky football.
Everyone wants to play like Ange or Pep Guardiola,
and they just want to talk about formations or that.
But break it down to the actual person or the child that you're working with.
They actually don't know how to actually pass the ball properly.
They don't know how to jump properly.
They don't know how to strike a ball.
Probably they don't know how to do this,
but they've been put into teams.
And then when they get isolated in moments,
and this is what I used to say to my under 21s.
And I remember taking their whole kind of concept and just putting it to the side.
And I actually taught my players how to strike balls and cross balls.
when you step up to the first team,
the manager is going to ask you to whip a ball in.
if you whip a ball in and you send a 50 yards in the air and a mile over that direction,
he's just going to go next one.
And that's your chance gone.
But if you put that ball and you whip a ball in right on the striker's head and he scores,
he's going to look at you and go,
And I just found it amazing.
So this has been interesting for me.
And even from my coaching side,
I'd always have time for individual work,
but especially working with Celtic,
especially with the wings,
when I see certain movement patterns,
and especially with Dyson,
I teach him certain patterns that I did and he takes it really on board.
I see it in the games where he gets success.
I just think it's fantastic.
It is like so much joy that you bring to yourself inside.
And even though the,
like the managers there and he's loving that,
we talked about that and now he's doing it.
and that's like an international player.
I've stepped up from that to work with players that have played at world cups,
that they're listening to me.
So it's a nice feeling.
And that's where you get your buzz from.
I can see the joy.
I can see the joy that you get out of that.
you mentioned before about,
Ange Postacoglu in a couple of days communicating so clearly,
you knew exactly what he wanted.
How have you gone about your communicating your message with clarity?
I've been fortunate enough now to have worked with two great managers,
one with Ange and one with Brendan Rogers,
and they're completely different managers within themselves.
and learning both and seeing both,
I kind of see myself kind of in between,
there's nothing that they're doing that is,
kind of different to what I've been doing.
I'm on the right path now.
I've got to hopefully be in the right place at the right time for my next
But like still learning,
learning my trade,
still do what I have to do,
but still learning from Brendan Rogers.
Now who's like I said,
they're completely different manager,
but taking the information there,
what I see and what are there,
I'm not too far away,
from what I think I can do.
Cause I feel like I do what they,
obviously a lower level because these guys are obviously fantastic at their
we'll see what will happen.
We'll see what will happen,
I've never been afraid.
I love making mistakes because that's how you learn.
I just hope I don't make too many mistakes in my next job.
How important has collaboration,
you're just talking about the collaboration,
With Brendan Rogers and Ange Postacoglu and learning and wanting to,
How important has that been for you?
It's put me on the,
on back to where I felt I was when I first took my first job at Crawley,
where I had a mindset,
like even when I was a player,
like a lot of managers knew that,
He knows his job.
He knows what I want,
just leave him because he will figure it out,
and some of the best coaches that I had worked with just left me alone,
told me what I needed to do and just said,
if you see something else,
you got to do it because I was that type of player to be able to go into a
certain position or drag someone out of a certain position to allow someone else
to be able to come in.
So I felt when I,
when I went into coaching,
that was my mindset.
I felt I did very good,
especially on my,
I kind of drifted off into a different little paths and kind of just drifted
away of drifted off my beliefs,
but working with Angie and working with Brendan Rogers.
Now these guys have put me back onto my tunnel vision of what I kind of
And because I've seen two top managers,
now work and it's like,
but I know what I want,
and you see that when you hear them talk,
when you hear them talk to players,
when you hear them talk to the press,
when you hear them just talking to general public,
or when you hear them talk to the coaches,
and they're the things that I'm picking up.
I'm excited to see what the Celtic team can do because we've got a big
champions league competition coming up.
I think a good opportunity,
especially with the teams that we've drawn.
I think we've got a good opportunity to progress,
especially with the performance that we turned out the other day against
I thought it was very positive.
So I'm looking forward to seeing what this Celtic team can do,
hopefully I can also take a little bit more information from Brendan Rogers
and just up my game a little bit as well.
we're obsessed with great leadership.
And what it looks like in different forms and the work we do at a leader
is an incredible story from the humble backblocks of Western Sydney to,
to achieve what you have.
Let me ask you this.
Who's been the greatest leader in your life?
I think there's been periods of where leaders have,
I wouldn't say leaders.
I would say just people that have,
because when you,
when you talk about a leader,
a great leader for me is someone that,
is there 24 seven,
is always there to help.
he puts the team first.
He's not one of these that it's about him.
He's always worried about everybody else,
but he really looks after himself because he makes sure he is that,
that person that is strong.
So I've come across people in my life that players even players,
that have shown qualities of like that.
but as far as like great,
like my dad was a big leader when I was younger growing up.
he was a big part of it,
but obviously because I left home,
I had to kind of filter out,
and maybe look for other kind of,
father figures that that were like leaders.
And obviously like I go back to even my financial advisor,
he's like a father to me,
in a different way,
I go back to one of my first coaches at Leeds United,
who I'm very fond of still to this day,
he was a big part of,
cause he could see a lot of him in me,
of what he wanted from me.
So he helped me as,
And then throughout my stages,
meeting different managers,
different players,
they've all kind of helped me in a way to become who I was.
ultimately it's always been my own decision and my own mindset that has led me
to be who I wanted to be.
So I've always appreciated people helping me,
but no one's ever really kind of told me really what to do.
Cause I've always been that player.
That's gone out and played on the edge and wanted to play on the edge.
And I was never afraid of what people were going to say about me.
And I know a lot of people out there sit there and go,
you'll get criticized for this or this,
that has never affected me.
Like it actually makes me laugh.
Like when someone wrote something bad about me or,
you played bad or this and that asked me and I'd go,
do you really think,
do you think that I need you to tell me that I played bad?
Now I know I played bad,
but that's all that matters,
There's only two people I need to impress in this world.
It's my wife and my boss.
They're the only two people,
like you can say what you wish.
And that's one thing that I,
I suppose I can take out of my career is that I've never let anyone affect me of
what they've ever said.
doesn't really bother me.
And that is a great superpower,
in this world now where critics are everywhere and more than ever,
athletes can get direct contact through social media.
And I'm not surprised in that in you that your own standards are so high that
why would you worry about someone that doesn't know you?
It's easy to say,
not many people can actually,
can actually do it the way that you have.
It is a bit of a superpower in the interest of collaboration,
which is another thing we're passionate about.
I can hear the ambition,
and you're going to back yourself in,
and have a crack on this path.
Is there anyone you thought,
that's the person I'd love to collaborate with.
And that's the person that,
in any area of your life,
is there a name that springs to mind on that front?
if I had the chance to work with someone,
especially in the,
in the football industry,
and I go back to my playing days,
it'd probably be like Frank Reichardt,
because I love my time when he was out there with Galatina,
I thought the way that he saw football,
he's probably the only one that's really challenged my kind of vision,
I thought I could see a lot of things in football,
but he kind of just zoomed it out that little bit more.
if I had an opportunity to kind of hook up with him and,
and learn from him,
that would be something that I would definitely jump at.
And I would love to hear all about that.
The great Frank Reichardt and,
it's been a pleasure and a privilege to sit down and,
and hear your thoughts,
hear you going so well.
I love what you're doing on the home front as much as anything,
as a father of four.
I'm going to lift my game myself on the back of what you said today,
but always admire you,
admire what you've done to put,
the round ball game on the map here in Australia and wish you all the best
Thanks for taking time.
And also really appreciate you being part of our Leader Connect program.
been great to connect with you on that front.
And thanks for having me on,
Really appreciate it.
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