Dr Troy Flanagan Making History In The Nba With A _No Burnout_ Mindset

I'm sure you're going to really enjoy this episode with Dr. Troy Flanagan, the head of

high performance at the Milwaukee Bucks.

The first meeting I had with the ownership, they said, wouldn't it be crazy if the Milwaukee

Bucks won the NBA championships?

And I'd never really heard of the Milwaukee Bucks.

You know, they've been a bottom dweller in the NBA for the 10 years prior.

He shares how his background in aerospace engineering has given him the ability to step

into the future and bring those possibilities into the now.

Also, what it's like to work and develop NBA superstar Giannis Antetokounmpo.

He said at one point, I'd love to be, you know, make the all-star team.

And I was pretty ambitious for someone who's pretty early in their career and he did it.

And then I'd like to be MVP and he did it.

I'd like to do it again.

He did it.

I'd like to win the championship.

He did it.

The somewhat depressing, but incredibly impactful, what sucks meetings.

And we put it up and then we prioritize it from high impact if we're able to solve those

things.

To lower impact, which ones are easier to do and which ones are harder to do.

And so the high impact, easy to do, they're a no brainer.

We'll do them.

Where are we now?

Where do we need to be?

And how do we get there?

How he reset his worldview in his thirties to beat burnout and ended up supercharging

his career in the process.

Really taught myself in how to coach and mentor staff.

And at that point, there's a sharp inflection upwards in my career.

That realization that give him back.

And being an inspiring leader to others really was the key to success in, in my career.

I also loved his insight into mastering the art of staying calm.

That's something that has taken years to develop.

You know, I thought I had it after a couple of years, but you know, it would still get

to me, the stress would still get to me.

And, and then after about five years in the NBA, I'm like, it's washing over now.

I don't, I don't feel it anymore.

And now after 10 years, it's, I think I've got it, got it mastered.

We are incredibly privileged to have Dr.

Troy Flanagan in a leader connect.

We curate groups of five to six leaders around the globe to get together, to learn, to connect

and to collaborate.

And Troy shared the story of how Vanessa Ford's work in his leader connect group, a

remarkable Portugal based artists of Jamaican descent, who's transforming her community

in a unique way and how that inspired him to raise $5 million to address the obesity

epidemic in Milwaukee.

We love inspiring connections and creating a world of collaboration head to a letter

collective.com and book a discovery call today.

Big.

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Dr.

Troy Flanagan is the vice president of performance at the Milwaukee bucks in the NBA with a unique

background in sports technology development that includes a PhD in aerospace engineering.

Having spent over 20 years directing the sports science and medicine programs across the world.

He has overseen the preparation of Australian Olympic athletes, facilitated the programs

that soar.

He's also been the head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks team for the last 20 years, and he's

also been the head coach of the U S Olympic ski and snowboard team, more than double their

medal tally from the previous Olympics.

Troy was brought on at Milwaukee Bucks at the end of the 2015, 2016 season.

And over the last decade has built a world-class high performance program that has seen the

Bucks go from being an almost forgotten brand in their own city to one of the best performing

teams in the NBA.

Dr. Troy Flanagan.

It's a great pleasure to catch up with you.

I've heard so much about you.

Well, thank you so much for having me, Luke.

Appreciate it.

Can I start with the Milwaukee Bucks?

Since 2012, they've been the best team in the NBA.

They've been the best team in the NBA.

Can I start with the Milwaukee Bucks?

Since 2016, over that time, the Bucks have pulled off one of the most remarkable transformations

in sports history, really.

The teams reshape their image and their brand locally, nationally, and globally.

Can you tell us about that experience and how does it feel to be part of a brand and

project of some kind?

Well, there are a number of things that have happened in the last 15 months, um, it's been

really a struggle.

A lot of things have happened in the past and you could see that in how that's taken

place.

part of a program that's been so successful. I remember the first meeting I had with the

ownership. They said, wouldn't it be crazy if the Milwaukee Bucks won the NBA championships?

I lived on the other side of the country in Utah, and I'd never really heard of the Milwaukee Bucks.

They've been a bottom dweller in the NBA for the 10 years prior, down the bottom of the league.

And it's pretty extraordinary to go through the journey from the bottom to the top. That's

actually, as a professional, what I enjoy the most. And your remit covers such a wide range.

Is it a sports medicine, wearable technology, software development, performance analytics,

diet, psychology? Basically, everything to do with the welfare of the players at the Bucks is

in your portfolio. Is there something that jumps out to you, Troy, that you feel like

you've learned?

That's an area that's really been important to us in the organization's success.

Yeah, I think you do have to be a jack-of-all-trades to do my job. It took me about 20 years to get

ready, and I was only just ready to take on this role after about 20 years in the industry.

And I think the thing that was really the key to our... I don't know if it's any discipline that

I've really overseen, but it was the coordinated, strategic,

vision of the owners. And then for us to, I guess, imagine what the Milwaukee Bucks looks

like in the future. And then it was a simple to-do list after that. But to identify what's

holding a team back and what's limiting the preparation and performance of the team, I think

that's really the true mastery of taking a team from the bottom to the top. And the U.S. Olympic

team actually taught me how to do that when I went to work for them. They are

masterful at that. And I think that's really the key to our success.

strategic planners. And I think that was one of the keys to success.

Troy, did you just mention imagining what the Milwaukee Bucks would look like

into the future? And it sounds like trying to fast-track that. My mind

immediately goes to Australian Hall of Fame legend, John Bertrand, and he's

always looking 10 years ahead. What was the Australia 2 going to look like in 10 years'

time and trying to get there quicker than everyone else? Is that sort of thinking a

bit of what you were just describing? Exactly what I was describing. So my

background in aerospace is that I've been in the industry for a long time. And I've been

doing aerospace engineering. It's funny you mentioned Australia 2 because that was one of

the projects when I was younger that really inspired me to do the work that I do, designing

kind of secret weapons. And that was one of the first secret weapons in sport, really, wasn't it?

That people came out and their minds were blown that we could develop that sort of technology and

really radically transform the sport. And since then, I've actually had a pattern of designing

secret weapons, whether it's being part of the bike design, whether it's being part of the bike

design, whether it's being part of the bike design, whether it's being part of the bike design,

program at RMIT University with the aerospace guys there developing pretty much the first

wearable technology to track soccer players on the field 24 years ago. And now that stuff's

everywhere. The US Olympic team is the best place in the world to go to design,

particularly skiing and snowboarding. There's so much technology there in designing ski jumping

suits that were designed in Melbourne at RMIT and for the US Olympic team. And, you know,

those sorts of tech projects, there's something that's always driven. I guess what I'm getting

here, the aerospace engineers taught me how to think like that. So what aerospace guys do,

they stand in the future and imagine what the future looks like. And they're like,

and the question they ask is, what is stopping that future from actually happening right now?

And they identify key technology barriers, or even in the NBA could be culture barriers,

those sorts of things. And then they work on those barriers. And once they solve those barriers,

rapid progression, rapid evolution of the sport happens overnight.

And what I love about that thinking, Troy, is that you can literally apply that to anything

in life, can't you? To business, to education, to any discipline, is it? Wanting to pursue

change at a rapid rate and try and stand, as you said, in the future. Have you seen that in other

areas of your life where that pursuit of excellence and trying to bring it forward

works for you in other areas? That's a good question. I think I apply that thinking to

everything. I think I apply that thinking to everything. I think I apply that thinking to

everything. I think I apply that thinking to everything. I think I apply that thinking to

how do my staff interact with coaches? I watch coaches and what they do every day. They're

spending a lot of time doing these very inefficient processes. And could we imagine the way that

they do things in the future and automating things so that they get their time back?

I guess I just try and apply it everywhere. Do you know what I love? There's a very specific

example that will not resonate in an audio medium, but we asked Troy to adjust his camera. And I'd

sat here and was trying to shift my laptop around. You put up your hand and AI moved your camera

and my mind was blown before we even started this interview. So I get the feeling you live and

breathe what you talk about every moment. You've had it once in a generation, maybe once in a

lifetime athlete. Giannis had a decumbo in your organization, the Milwaukee Bucks. And for those

that don't know the story, as an immigrant to Greece and growing up with abject poverty

to become an NBA superstar and someone that everyone has marveled at, for you to be around

an athlete like that, what's it take to manage someone like that on a daily basis, Troy?

Well, it's changed over time. When I first walked in, he'd been at the Bucks for a year and he's a

big, tall, skinny guy with not many muscles and wasn't very strong. And then I hired one of the

best strength coaches in the world, Nsuki Hobson, to come in and build his physique and also his

athleticism. And he said at one point, I'd love to make the all-star team. And I was pretty ambitious

someone who was pretty early in their career and he did it. And then I'd like to be MVP and he did

it. I'd like to do it again. He did it. I'd like to win the championship. He did it. And slowly,

but surely, all of the things that come with that increase in performance, but also increase in fame

and the demands that pull on him. I've just seen it rapidly change over time to where now we,

I've traveled with him to New York City and just to see him and also overseas.

And just to see people recognize him and be inspired by him. Kids know him and love him.

And he's a pretty special athlete that it's a privilege to even know.

And he looks like a remarkable human being as well. Troy, there's a great documentary that's

been released recently on Giannis and I'm sure it only scratches the surface. But the story that

springs to mind on when he first came out and literally sending every dollar he had back to

the family. And he would go to the teller every time he got money and literally feed it back to

the family. And so much so that he got caught out pre-game, sending money back home, the story

was told and realized then that he was going to miss the game because he literally couldn't catch

a taxi to the ground and hailed down a Milwaukee supporter who was driving to the game, who dropped

him sort of 10 Ks out. He ran the last sort of six or seven miles to the game. Is that the legend

of that story true? Yes, it is. And it doesn't surprise me that he's very, very resourceful.

Yeah, I can see that absolutely happening. I just heard about it afterwards. I would have been

horrified if I had been standing at a game and the guy just ran a 10K before they started. But

yeah, we heard about it later and that doesn't surprise me. But yeah, incredible guy and so

driven, so professional. And he's genetically gifted for sure, but it's the hard work and

determination. And like he'll work on himself all day, all night into the wee hours of the

morning. And he'll work on himself all day, all night into the wee hours of the morning.

He's just constantly working on getting better every single day. So for me, it's not a shock

or a surprise that he's achieved the heights he has because of how much work and how much further

he's willing to go beyond what any other player in the league is doing. And that's probably a

product of his story. Troy, you grew up in a small Australian country town. It's a long way to the

US Olympic team and working at the cutting edge of aerospace engineering and elite performance

and NBA championship winning teams. Do you look back at that?

I look back at your upbringing, your background and say, wow, you know, that's the possibilities

endless, isn't it? And it's inspiring to young people listening to this. Can you tell us a bit

about that journey? I did grow up in a small town in country New South Wales called Ballaratl,

which if you drive from Sydney to Adelaide, you actually drive through it and don't blink,

you'll miss it. It's pretty small, but I was a swimmer when I was a kid. And I remember my mom

and dad got a color TV and they turned it on the opening ceremony of the Moscow Olympics was on.

And I was just blown away. But one day I'll go to the Olympics and wasn't a good enough swimmer to

go, obviously, but it turns out I was a better sports scientist and high performance specialist.

And I've been to several Olympics now with the Australian and US teams. And I finally got there

and I think I was always really driven. I knew exactly what I wanted to do when I was 16 years

old and pretty much this is it. I didn't expect to be in America though. And I didn't expect to be

at an NBA basketball team. So that's been kind of the surprise. You just work hard and an

opportunity will present itself. And that often takes you on a tangent sideways.

I wanted to ask you about the difference between US and Australian culture. The great Greg Norman,

legendary Australian golfer and championship winning world number one, had a saying that

in America, if you buy a nice car, someone's likely to come up and say, hey, Troy, nice car.

In Australia, someone's likely to run the keys down the side.

And we call it tall poppy syndrome in Australia. It seems a uniquely bad Australian thing there.

What do you make of that tall poppy syndrome? It's definitely something that I've experienced

personally on my journey, going through my career in the Australian system. And you get to the US

and the attitude is very much can do. It's a culture of possibility. It's probably why

I enjoy working here.

So much is because we have billionaire owners who have the exact same mindset that anything

is possible. The Milwaukee Bucks can win the NBA championship and potentially win it a couple of

times. That's the culture I really thrive in. I love that about Americans. It's a can do attitude.

If you want to be a billionaire, everyone says go for it. Whereas in other cultures,

you might get, come on, man, be realistic. Over here, they just go for it. And it's a can do

culture.

So we've heard about your what sucks meetings. Can you talk us through what they are and how that

idea started?

I always think that the group's more powerful than the individual, right? So we do a thing here.

It's part of our planning process to debrief after the season. And we get the whole group,

all my staff in, and we just, they're actually, these meetings are a bit depressing because it

seems like everything sucks, but everybody throws up things that annoy them, things that are

inefficient, things that they need to change. And we just, we just, we just, we just, we just,

and we put it up and then we prioritize it from high impact. If we're able to solve those things

to lower impact, and then which ones are easier to do and which ones are harder to do. And so

the high impact, easy to do, they're a no brainer. I find that it's the high impact,

hard to do quadrant that is really, really where the gold is. And if you can just solve one or two

of those things, you can potentially transform the world.

The way NBA players are prepared or the way they perform. And so,

so we're really big on prioritizing those things.

Yeah. And a follow on from that, I understand that you've talked about good strategic planning. He's

aiming for sort of 10 impactful strategies in a relatively short period of time, maybe one to

three years that you really go after. Does that come out of that particular forum that you just

talked about? And can you elaborate on how you go about implementing those things?

Yeah, it's a really simple process for me in

strategic planning. It's almost oversimplified as where are we now? Where do we need to be?

And how do we get there? They're kind of the three. If you look at my strategic plan,

you would see those sorts of things. And we do international comparisons of all different areas

and gap analysis and things like that, that go into the planning process. But out of it normally

comes 10 to 12 key problems that we're going to fix. And I present those to ownership and

it actually builds.

A lot of confidence and a lot of trust that they say, if we solve these 10 things,

we will radically transform our performance. We'll go from here to here. And the owners and the GM

and everybody says, well, now I know what you're working on. Off you go. We'll give you whatever

you need to do that. And I think it's really got to boil down to more of a problem solving approach

rather than just doing everything slightly better. My strategic planning process is more about

identifying,

you know, what's holding us back.

And Troy, we've been really privileged to cross over with you in the Elite Connect world that

we're really passionate about curating groups of five to six different thinkers and leaders from

different backgrounds around the globe. And to have you in that, I know the group that you,

we have benefited greatly from it. Tyson Vallard's a unique serial entrepreneur,

Hugh van Kylenburg with the Resilience Project, Amit Baines at the Bulldogs are a few of the

members of your group. Vanessa Ford as well is an incredible.

Thank you.

Thank you. Can you tell us about that experience and what it's meant for you?

Yeah, I've really loved it. I've probably had some of the most radical changes out of that

leadership group. You know, listening to people like Vanessa Ford and actually the whole group

really, and just how much that they, the significance of their work and how much it's

really about helping others and the communities and giving back. And it made me think, well,

what am I doing? I'm, I'm kind of making,

rich people played NBA basketball slightly better, right? And so what else could I be doing?

And a funny story that spun out is I've got to get back to the community. So I approached our,

our owner and within a few weeks, we'd raised $5 million to try and solve obesity in the

underprivileged community in Milwaukee. We've enrolled a hundred people in that program.

We set up a clinic in a barbershop in downtown Milwaukee. And those, those,

people, people that can't really afford the medications and the, the medical infrastructure

that, that others can. And they're already halfway through the program and are having

extraordinary results. And we hope to, you know, grow up to a thousand and then take it nationally.

So, so that's one spark that, that, that, that leadership courses cause. I've got to give back

a little bit more. These guys are doing extraordinary things around the planet.

And, you know, what am I doing to, to contribute and leave the, the world as a better place?

The other thing I think that I really love about the leader program was that we started out giving

ourselves leadership and business tips and tricks. And the place that we've now ended up

12 months later is we're all successful. We're all really good within our workspace.

But are we equally as successful?

Outside of our workplace, at home, within our family and friends infrastructure. And we talk

about that a lot about the wins outside of work, as much as we do about what we achieve

inside our four walls in their businesses. Troy, I love that story. And we talk about

these inspiring connections and a world of collaboration. I love that an artist based

in Portugal of Jamaican heritage is transforming the way that black people are seen on screens

with a super SEMA influencing an aerospace engineer growing up in rural New South Wales

at a high performing NBA team and having an impact on the obesity in a city like Milwaukee.

I love the fact that someone like you is so capable of implementing and being inspired and

that you pick up things and you act on them from what I understand, Troy, and you immediately,

the gap between you thinking about something and doing something positive.

Is there been other techniques that you've been able to, to grab and implement

individually?

I think the other thing that really stood out early on in, in, in the program was how much

the other participants in my group cared about the individuals they work for and that they,

they serve in their workplace. And it really has made me stop and think about, look,

the NBA is 24 seven, about 360 days of the year. And it's so easy to get caught up in,

in the machine and the grind of the daily work and all of the demands that, that, that, that job

pulls on you. And you forget to sit your guys down and say, how are you doing? And we work,

we work, we play every second, third game day. Um, we travel a day might start at quite often

in the season at eight o'clock in the morning and finish at 2 AM that night. And it's taxing on

the staff is taxing on their families.

And just connecting with them was, was something that I was reminded to do and to prioritize that.

And, and that really had a profound impact on my connection with my staff. And, you know,

we're all in this together. We're on a journey together. We're trying to win another NBA

championship, but just to make sure and check in that they're okay on that journey is,

is really important.

And Troy, we would love that you've been able to share that with the

seven or so senior leaders at Milwaukee. And you can see the environment that you're in is just

high.

Where do we improve? How do we do that? And each of those individuals taking their learning to

unique places to bring that back to the organization in unique ways, which we've been

incredibly privileged and, uh, and, and fascinated by how you guys think and work. And we, we use this

term a lot, uh, Troy, that success leaves clues. And I love the opportunity to sit down and, and

talk to someone like you with your experience. And we see leadership has these common traits.

I want to ask you about a few of them. And we think the idea of

leadership is where it starts for us. It's very hard for anyone to have an impact on someone else

without a strong sense of their own self-leadership. What does that mean to you?

I had a career early, early days in my twenties, where I was just working crazy hours with the, at

the Victorian Institute of sport and in the Institute system and was really burning myself

out. So by the time I was 30, you know, I was even considering going off in a different career and

what I realized at that point was my career to that point was all about my achievements and what I

could do and, um, what I could achieve, like, you know, working with Olympic athletes, done it,

working with Olympic champions, done it. How about I get a PhD in aerospace engineering, done it.

By the time I was 30, I was exhausted. And there was a moment where I realized that

it, my career is not about me. It's about what I can do for others. And,

and I put on the possibility of being a brave and inspiring leader to everybody around me

and bravery because I, I needed it in that tall poppy syndrome, you know, just to keep,

uh, a culture and just to keep, keep charging, keep, keep achieving, keep aiming high,

but also inspiring, like just back to the, the wing keel of Australia too. That was an

inspirational moment. And it's easy to be a leader when you're, you're an inspiring. And so that's

been my mantra and I write it down.

Once a week on top of my to-do list of being a brave and inspiring leader. And some weeks I'm

not a brave and inspiring leader, but that's what I attest to try and be. And, and at that moment,

and when I was around 30, I started to, to coach. I said, okay, I'm in a good spot. Now I've got all

these staff below me. I'm going to coach them one day a week. I'm going to sit between 30 and 45

minutes every week and coach them on how they're doing, what their next job is, how we can get them

there, you know, what their dreams are. And, um, and really taught myself on how to coach and mentor

staff. And at that point, there's a sharp inflection upwards in my career, that realization

that giving back and being an inspiring leader to others really was the key to success in, in my

career. And like the secret of it all is the product, you know, I was working on, you know,

almost getting staff to go onto another job,

productivity went up 10X and everybody's walking around with a spring in their step. And suddenly

we were producing extraordinary technology, extraordinary techniques, uh, with the Olympic

athletes. And, and we were starting to really turn heads. And, and that was the key is, is to,

to really focus on everyone around you. It's a great story, Troy, and I really

appreciate your sharing, isn't it? And to get that knowledge at 30 years of age and have that

self reflection on yourself is a great credit to you, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We all probably start there and probably in sport, how do I get to the level I need to

get to?

That's probably a natural thing, isn't it?

You want to achieve and you want success as a kid.

And then to understand that the highest form of living, isn't it, is supporting someone

else to get there.

And as you said, when you do that, it actually enhances everyone, doesn't it?

People with your 10X people's performance, even if they are going to leave your organization

or leave the team that you're in, it's a great way to think and you sum that up in such a

brilliant way.

That probably leads to the next dimension pretty clearly.

That idea of having a positive impact on people every day in the environment you're in is

something that we see as a key dimension of leadership.

And that was a great story about that, isn't it?

Starting to focus on being an inspiring.

I love that you write that at the top of your diary every week.

How have you gone about that, that positive impact on people daily?

Yeah, the MBA ecosystem does everything to stop that, given the demands of the job when

you've reached.

You've really got to pull yourself back to that human side on a daily basis, not just

working a to-do list and charging through your day.

I don't know if I have a terrific technique on what I do daily, but it's definitely a

weekly reflection.

You're having the open door policy and just caring about people that are coming through

my door.

And Troy, we got an insight into your strategic planning and the excellence that you've

bring to the organization that you're in or every organization that you're in.

And I suppose there's been some pretty clear visions that you've had for high performance.

How have you gone about sharing that vision, creating and sharing that vision within the

places that you've operated?

Yeah, I've always found myself to be a bit of a dreamer of the future is kind of the

theme, right?

And I remember the US ski team, I used to present my annual strategic plan, but the

first two minutes of it.

It was an inspirational video of that had a message that I really wanted the leadership

of the US ski team, US Olympic team to look the lens that I wanted them to look through

and then listen to my presentation.

And so it's just opening up their minds and letting them see something inspirational.

Let's, you know, we went to the Vancouver Olympics and doubled our best ever medal telly

from Torino, which was a disaster for the.

US ski and snowboard team as far as metal count.

And then they went, they turned up in Vancouver in 2010 after me being there three years.

And I'm not saying I was the reason for it, but you know, we got them organized

systematic and, and they just seem to win everything in Vancouver.

And you know, that my first message after those Olympics in my next strategic plan is,

you know, we've dominated the Olympics.

What if we could do it again?

What if we could take them up a notch?

And then the next Olympic.

So it's really coming from a perspective of creating a vision and inspiring people to do that.

And then once you start to achieve those things, it becomes easy.

Like, well, you know, what else have you got?

You know, what else do we need to do?

It's easy to get funding.

You know, they trust million dollar technology projects that I would take on.

They trust that, you know, the last one work, let's go again.

You know, what, what can we do with the Alpine suits?

Can we make them more dynamic?

Can we do more wind tunnel testing?

Can we get.

Some.

More, you know, experts from around the world to look over our shoulder, those sorts of things.

So everybody's at the snowball starts.

Then in my mind, my strategy is to just give them that lens and then show them the future.

Troy, we see a lot of people who have success like you and consistently are really curious people.

And through that curiosity, that's how they approach their learning and development.

Does curiosity ring true for you?

Oh, absolutely.

If our department was a business, we would be.

Incredibly successful because we all need PhDs to work with elite athletes.

We just do, you know, 20, 30 years of preparation in order to get ready just for this role.

Uh, research in anywhere from nutrition and aerospace industry to medical side.

So like the amount of preparation that we have to do just to work with an athlete these days, there's really like no other industry postgraduate degree and you go and need most other injuries.

So.

Uh, it, in most other, um, industries.

So, you know, I, I think that sort of level of preparation lends itself to having an extraordinary foundation of science underneath you that backs you that curiosity to learn and, and to innovate causes extraordinary results on the other end.

Communicating with clarity is a dimension that we see consistently, uh, around different layers.

How have you gone about, uh, that communication strategy?

I think the first thing that comes to my mind is I'm the guy who interprets all the technical jargon and gives it to the general manager and the owner.

And so I take complex medical jargon about a particular injury and I, I walk upstairs and say, okay, here's what's going on with his knees.

Don't, don't, don't actually the us ski team taught me this in any situation you need three talking points.

And as simple as that sounds like we would have an incident or a new sponsorship or.

You know, an athlete that's achieved good results or perhaps underachieved, they always used to meet as a group, collective group and say, okay, this has happened.

These are our talking points, everyone on that message, you can say other things, but I want you to hit these three target points.

If anyone from the media, anyone from the organization, we're all sticking to these three talking points and I I've really taken that forward.

You know, if, if something's happening here with the bucks, I, I always get the group in and say, okay, this has happened, you know, we've got a significant injury.

Here are our talking points.

If anyone asks us, people will come and ask for information from all different angles.

And yeah, that's certainly in good stead.

And you're talking the highest pressure situations.

You go back to an NBA championship, uh, podcast.

You go back to the playoffs and, uh, one of the most high profile athletes in the world has a knee injury.

Every person in your city wants to know about that knee injury.

And what are you doing, Troy?

How do we get Giannis back on the court?

So again, is it just, here's the three things that we're working on.

Let's stick to that communication.

Is it, does that work under that extreme pressure as well?

It really does.

And one of the things that I've, I look back on in my time in Australia is the best medical professionals like Peter Harcourt and all those guys.

You know, they're always so calm under pressure.

Like just all sorts of stuff would be happening.

And they were just absolutely calm.

Like surgeons, you know, when things are going wrong and they're just so cool and calm.

And that's what I try.

And if you actually see me in a game, like behind the bench, you know, the whole crowd is roaring and I'm just sitting there calmly.

Not so much inside, but developed that skill over 10 years of, you know, and everything is happening in the gut wrenching.

Stress of winning an NBA championship.

You know, it's kind of at the end of COVID, which adds a whole nother layer of stress.

It's taught me to be calm in really chaotic situations.

And I think that married with clear communication has been one of the keys to success.

And even when we've got Doc Rivers now and his assistant coaches, and they're like, we can't believe how calm you are in an injury crisis.

And, you know, I've had it a lot.

A lot of them.

So maybe it just washes off these days.

But that's something that has taken years to develop.

You know, I thought I had it after a couple of years, but, you know, it would still get to me.

The stress would still get to me.

And then after about five years in the NBA, I'm like, it's washing over now.

I don't feel it anymore.

And now after 10 years, I think I've got it mastered.

I love you described that's a skill you went after and worked on and a mastery of wanting to be that way.

How important is collaboration?

Yeah, I think it's really the key to success.

If I talk to this NBA, I think in the past in the NBA, you know, the medical staff and performance staff are over in that corner and coaches are up in that corner.

And, you know, that's coaching and that's medicine.

And I think the really progressive world class teams now are inviting the performance and medical staff into coaches meetings there to listen to hear what the coaches are saying directly about the players.

And taking that information back into that preparation.

You know, I think really the key to our success or one of the keys to our success has been the inviting nature of the different groups in the organization.

And it's taught me a lot of how important it is when we've been successful.

And when we haven't, it's been awful little.

And so we're always striving to, you know, form those partnerships.

And the GM and the coach and I, we always say it's a partnership.

We work in a partnership.

And we say that word a lot.

You know, we're partners in this.

And I think that sets the tone.

Who's been the greatest leader in your life?

The greatest leader in my life?

That's a good question.

I think it's been a culmination of a lot of people.

I think when I was in Australia, I really loved working for Dr. Frank Pike.

I think he was the head of the VIS.

And actually the first four scientists.

That ever fixed Dennis Lilly's back in the days.

You know, like he's a phys editor and pioneered the whole industry.

And he's probably the guy who gave me my first start.

I would say Frank would be probably my favorite leader.

And Peter Spencer, the two that gave me my start.

And saw my vision and my hunger to go off into this career.

You reference a famous story, isn't it?

One of the all-time great Australian athletes whose back was gone and rebuilt.

His bowling technique, the great Dennis Lilly.

And then I understand he passed it on to a generation of bowlers who just consisted.

It's the most unnatural thing in the world to do to bowl cricket balls at 160 kilometers an hour.

And on a piece of concrete effectively running it at full speed.

And I think he influenced a huge amount of athletes after that with great success as well.

So I love that chain of it being passed on.

You sitting there now in the US and passing your knowledge on to a range of athletes.

And changing their life.

We're a bit obsessed in the elite world with the idea of collaboration and what it looks like.

I mean, you've had access to incredible collaborators to try and take high-performing Olympic teams and NBA teams to their very best.

Has there been one person from any of your passions?

Because you've done, as you said, different things with wearable technology and bikes.

Or anyone you thought, that's someone I'd love to tap into their knowledge and collaborate with.

Is there a name that springs to mind?

I think there's lots of names that spring to mind.

Which is why I'm not, you know, I think the All Blacks are a group that I'd love to collaborate with.

And I haven't at this point.

My wife's a Kiwi, so she would enjoy that.

We just don't talk about rugby at home and everything's great.

They seem to be an organization that's been big on cultural change, innovation in, you know, the performance world.

And, you know, one of the most successful teams in the world.

And they've written books and all that sort of thing.

But I'd like to learn what's not in the book as well.

Because I've learned over the past is that you can say a lot without saying anything.

You know, there's some secret sauce that they don't let out.

And that's definitely what happens here at the NBA.

But I'd love to work with those guys.

Yeah, it's a brilliant answer, isn't it?

A team that's had that sustained success.

And it's more than a religion in New Zealand, isn't it?

The All Blacks are part of the DNA of that whole country.

And it takes over every year.

Every part of everyone who lives in that part of the world.

And I'm sure that would be a fascinating collaboration.

Dr. Troy Flanagan, it's been a great privilege to spend some time with you.

Fascinated by the work that you're doing and how you implement all the great successes in the spaces you've been in.

I really appreciate your time.

Thanks for joining me.

You're welcome.

Thanks for listening to another episode of the Empowering Leaders Podcast.

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