Dr John Tickell Living A Longer Life

a listener production. Dr. John Tickell is someone I have been looking forward to having

on the podcast for a long time. A remarkable Australian medical doctor who has spent several

decades traveling the world, studying health and spreading the knowledge of some of the world's

longest living people. John is immensely passionate about his work and you'll hear

that right throughout the chat, the way he presents his messages, but also walks the walk

and practices them at the same time is extremely admirable. And if you're wanting to live a

healthier and longer life, John is someone you should definitely be listening to. Leaders like

Dr. John Tickell are the type of industry movers that I have been talking to the business, a leader

which was co-founded with my great friend, Matt Waterwitz. It's a place where leaders can

collaborate and learn from one another. And we've had the privilege of working with some incredible

people in the program, like Mike Dunlap, the assistant coach, the Morky Bucks, who's been on

this program. Eddie Jones as well from English Rugby, the head coach, Andy Lee from Hamish and

Andy, just to name a few.

You don't have to be a coach or a world-leading comedian to be part of it though. We are equally

passionate about collaborating with small business owners, executives, whatever you do,

we all bring value to the types of environments we have at Alita. You can find out more about it,

head to alitacollective.com. We'd encourage you to check out the signature Alita Connect

program I'm talking about and understand how people like Dr. John Tickell are collaborating

and leading in their world. Dr. John Tickell is a medical doctor,

an international speaker, best-selling author, television personality who has spent several

decades traveling and studying the health, well-being and longevity patterns of people

around the world. He applies his own powerful formula of activity, eating and coping skills,

which draw on his medical experience, extensive international research and the lifestyle patterns

of the longest living people on earth, the Okinawans. John played senior AFL football for

the Hawthorne Football Club in the 1960s, has produced a number one top 40 hit record,

created and developed the Hyatt Regency Coolum International Resort and Spa,

the Heritage Golf and Country Club in the Yarra Valley. And John himself is a cancer survivor

and renowned globally as one of the world's most respected voices in health and well-being.

John, it's great to see you again. Thanks for your time today.

Luke, you remind me of the Western Oval. I played one game for Hawthorne against the Bulldogs.

The whole game was played in one half because of the wind, like one half of the ground.

Oh, I'm happy to take you back. So that would have been 1960-ish, yeah?

65, 66.

The great John Schultz would have been there from the Bulldogs' point of view. My dad wouldn't have

been far away, actually, John. He started in 1962. So I'm glad we remind you of that. The

Witten Oval, as it is now, is a great place. I've got to-

What's the second windiest ground?

Well, Witten Oval would have to be there. It was probably the muddiest ground in history.

Glen Ferry Oval was the muddiest. Windy Hill was the second.

Windy Hill.

Yeah.

So much to talk to you about, John. And I'll maybe start, I mean, I love reading and listening

to, has done for many, many years. I think I met you as an 18 or 19-year-old. But the clear

thinking, plain language, easy to understand principles of living a healthy life that have

been your life. Can I start there? Can you give us, what are the keys to living a healthy life?

I call them the A-skills. Now, I have stolen these from the longest living, healthiest people

on earth.

You mentioned the Okinawans. They live in islands off the southern ends of Japan. A is

activity. So there's no guy on the gate of the fields where they grow their food saying

you're 65, go home and watch TV. I mean, you retire. It's a pretty funny word. I mean,

you're tired. Luke, why would you want to get re-tired? I mean, what do you do when

you're re-tired? What do you do up the back shed and do the garden? Then you go on a cruise

and get fatter and fatter. And then what do you do? You come home and do up the garden

and do up the back shed. I mean, re-tire is one of that Western thing.

It's one of those Western disasters that somebody's invented. So A is activity. You've

got to keep active. C is coping. We're talking off air about 20 years ago, you couldn't cope,

so you had to get better at it. And then, oh, you're full of stress. Your stress has

got you. And now you've got mental health issues. The last three years, some people

beyond blue, blah, blah, say the 63% have got mental health issues. It's not. It's 100%.

We've all had mental health issues, anxiety in the last three years, but it's how you

cope with it. So A, activity. C, coping. And E, eating. We are one of the top 10 worst

food eaters in the world. Like just one fast food, I won't mention their name, the big

M, is 2 million meals a day we buy. In Australia.

That's just one fast food. 2 million a day. Because why? Well, I haven't got time. I'm

busy.

Well, my mum, my grandma, my wife, my wife's worked all her life. I mean, she used to cook

when our kids were growing up. We had five kids, so I think they're all mine. Luckily

they look like Sue. But yeah, there was six to 10 veggies on their plate every night and

some, whatever you call it, protein, you know, fish and meat and chicken and all that sort

of stuff. But plant food, see, the human being was born not as a carnivore. Carnivores like

dogs and tigers. They have claws, not fingers. They have very short legs. They have very

short intestines. We've got intestines that wind all the way down. I mean, do you know

how many people died of bowel cancer last week in Australia?

How many?

77.

Yeah.

It's 11 a day die of bowel cancer because we eat all this crap. And that's a bad word,

crap, but it's an acronym, commercially refined and processed. So most of our food we eat,

our kids are eating crap.

And John, I love, in recent times, I find you on LinkedIn and you go after the carnivores

in that space.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When you break it down like that, it makes sense, doesn't it? So there's a million diets,

there's a million fads that come through, but yours is very simple, isn't it? Two-thirds

of your diet should be plant-based foods and the other third, you call them bonus foods.

Do you know what a diet is? It's an acronym for did I eat that? And that lasts 14 days

or 21 days. And then you go back to the other stuff and you put all the weight back on.

I mean, it's the yo-yo stuff. And the first three letters in the word diet are die. So

if you go on diets all your life, you know, you're more likely to die because of that

swinging weight. You're increasing your percentage of body fat because when you lose

weight quickly, you're losing muscle. When you turn 25, Luke, you're more than 25. Do

you realise, probably not you, we as a majority lose 1% of our muscle bulk efficiency and

power every year. So if you live till you're 125, you'll have no muscle left. But if we

live to 65, 40% of our muscles have gone because we don't use them.

Yeah.

And we need to.

And we need to, as you said, you go back and we're going to jump around a little bit here,

but there's so much to talk to you about. The Okinawans who you studied and you have

the Blue Zone communities, which I'm fascinated by. You go to Sardinia in Italy or the communities

that you know really well. I mean, they're in the rice fields. They were historically

in their 90s, still working, still connected to community. And more revered with age, weren't

they, those communities? The elders were respected in a way because they had more knowledge.

It's another thing we've lost a little bit in the West.

You're on the money there. They have a thing in the Okinawan village.

They don't live in 90-storey buildings, apartments on floor 87 with no oven. There's

a microwave, no backyard for the kids to play in. I mean, what are we doing to our kids?

The biggest, I'm getting off the subject here, Luke, the biggest, you've got what, four kids?

Four kids, yeah.

So if they're healthy, that means you and your wife have been good role models. But

if a kid sees you eating, you know, there's bags of lollies in the cupboard and all that

sort of stuff, and you're eating chocolates.

Every night and all that sort of stuff. They think that's normal. But if you, if Nan and

Sue goes for a walk around the block, the grandkids are going, yeah, let's go for a

walk with Nan and Sue. So it's so much of what you do rubs off. Your kids have got an

85% chance of ending up like you or your wife for a combination of both. Now, what was your

question?

About the Okinawans and their ability to keep working, as you said before, that retire.

I love what you said there. My father-in-law is 84, still runs his legal business.

Business trains every day. And that inspiration flying through to see a grandparent who's

still strong and still, you know, connected to all of them. I mean, he's never going to

retire. The day he does will be the day that he's had enough, I think. And so I'm with

you on that. I feel like we've lost our way, haven't we, a little bit in these conversations

in the West around how we eat, how we role model and how we live our life.

And the COVID episode, we'll call it an episode, it started.

To distance people and then we cotton onto this thing called, there's a thing called

the internet. Have you ever heard of that? And Zoom and all that sort of stuff. So at

least it kept us together. But still, when I speak at a conference, which I'm doing a

bit more face-to-face now, to be in the same room as people like the Okinawans at sundown

every night, they have a thing called Ayakura, where the elders sit on the lawn in the middle

of the village and all the young kids go and touch them on the back to get the, the Ayakura

called goodness flowing. So if you touch somebody who's over the age of 90, because

the Okinawans think you're not an elder till you're 90. Now, most people in our society

are dead when they're 90, they're under the ground. And so it's the goodness flowing from,

so you can't buy wisdom and you can't buy experience. So to have a retire age at 65

is quite bizarre. And one of the things that I think your message

to me is, there's so many powerful messages, but I think it's important to know that you

know, you've got all the stats and I'm sitting, I love it. You've brought the deaths with

you and I can see all the numbers. Australia has become, you know, one of the cancer capitals

of the world. We're close to the Americans now for, you know, obesity issues. And as

your research will tell you, obese kids become obese adults. And then we have all of these

Western diseases that you call them, the CHADS, the cancers, the heart disease, the Alzheimer's,

the diabetes. But all your research and all your history says that so much of that is

our lifestyle and we can control them.

I mean, you don't hear medical professionals say, you know, you're going to die, you're

going to die. You don't hear medical professionals talking like that. Why is that the case?

Well, when I grew up in the medical degree studies, you get taught a couple of things.

You get called, they call it diagnosis, then they call it therapy. And so when you're diagnosed

with something, you've got three options. You prescribe a drug or you say, go and see

the surgeon because if in doubt, cut it out. You know, that was the old man.

Yeah.

So you don't get the answer of the surgeons. That's why they like people lying on a bed

with no consciousness because whatever's wrong, they chop it out. Now, I started to wonder

in my general practice out in Whittlesea with Dr. Read, who sadly passed on his way through

asbestos cancer.

The great Bruce Read, who was the Essendon footy club doctor for four years plus.

Yeah. He was here.

So you two started in practice together, did you?

Yeah. Well, that's an interesting thing. Would you want to go to a lawyer that's still practicing,

or would you want them to be better than that?

So, yeah, we started out practising, then we got perfect.

So, Dr. Reid and I and Ian Reynolds.

But then we started to have a coffee out the back, you know,

half-time, whatever they call it, in the practice.

So, why are so many people coming in here, they're sick?

Now, one of the things was the waiting room for the older people,

the pensioners, was a social outing.

So, relating that to the Okinawans, they grow up in villages

where they meet often and they play cards and they go for walks together

and play bingo and whatever you do when you're in a village.

I mean, we don't live in villages.

They call them retirement villages in Australia,

but I'd call them activity villages.

I mean, I reckon instead of frequent flyer points, like, Luke,

just say your family had fitness, family fitness points, FF points,

not frequent flyer, family fitness points.

So, on a chart every week,

you'd tick the list of family fitness points.

You'd tick off how many stairs you climbed.

I mean, I climbed back surgery a year ago because I had something wrong

because I played that stupid game called AFL.

And anyway, so they've sort of fixed me.

But I can't run anymore because I'm getting old,

but I climb 500 stairs a day.

People say, why?

Because I was born with 600 muscles and 180 joints.

And if you sit them in a chair all day or in front of a computer,

they're going to seize up.

They're going to get rusty.

You are going to get...

You're going to get arthritis.

So, at whatever age I am, I'm waiting for a telegram from the Queen.

How old are you?

Can I ask that?

Well, if the Queen was around, I'd get a telegram in 22 years.

Yeah.

So, but people say...

See, the other thing, we sit at this.

Now, Luke, 93% of everything you do is in front of your body.

So, would you mind if I took five seconds off to lean back

and do some backward shoulder rolls like this?

So, why doesn't everyone do backward shoulder rolls?

Every half hour, you know, to get your spine moving.

So, we don't think of those sort of little things.

So, if you work to a plan that I've stolen,

the ACE plan, activity, coping, eating,

from the longest living, healthiest people on earth,

we might start preventing...

I mean, the last lunch I had was with Olivia Newton-John.

I work with the O&J Cancer Wellness Centre.

We're going to start next year a big thing on prevention.

The best way to handle cancer is not...

Forget it.

Australia is now the cancer capital of the world.

We get more cancers per head than any population on earth.

Why?

Because governments are useless.

They don't prevent.

They just promise to build more hospitals

and get more ambulances on time and all that sort of stuff.

And that's when you're sick.

So, the health department should be called the sick department.

We're going to start...

O&J and I, we're going to start a prevention department

to stop people getting the CHAD diseases.

And your latest book...

You know, Your Best Immunity, which is brilliant.

The Build Resistance, The Ace Way.

It's a brilliant guide.

And I can't help, John, in the current world being struck by...

We've just come out of...

You and I both live in Melbourne,

a city that has...

The title is the most locked down city in the world

through the COVID period of time.

Give or take, maybe China's gone past it now.

But we had public health officials standing before us every day.

And we got to know these people.

We hadn't heard of them before.

We didn't know Melbourne or Brett Sutton-Wiles.

We didn't...

No one in America had heard of Anthony Fauci before.

Or all these people became well-known

because they were controlling our lives.

So, we got to know them.

But I didn't hear once anyone talk about the things

you can do yourself to get a better immunity.

No talk about the things you're passionate about,

nutrition and exercise and the ace way to living,

community and family.

Why are our public health officials not singing

from the same hymn book you are about looking after your own health?

Because public officials are in one business.

It's called winning the next election.

So, promising things that you can touch and feel.

So, you can't...

I can promise prevention.

The second most important thing in your body after your brain

is called your immune system,

which is made up of spleen, liver, all the little lymph nodes

and all those sort of things.

The reason so many people died with or alongside another illness,

associated with COVID,

and don't forget 90% of deaths are in people over 70,

because when you've got a lousy...

If you've got a lousy immune system, which is your fault,

vaccines have got nothing to work on.

See, the way vaccines work is to improve your immune system as it is.

So, if you've got very bad immunity,

the vaccine's wandering around saying,

yeah, but what am I going to boost?

What am I going to work on?

So, a magic vaccine doesn't work.

Like, all these anti-vaxxers saying vaccines don't work.

UNICEF, the United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund,

was founded in 1946.

Vaccines were invented in the late 30s.

Vaccines have saved kids' lives $3 million a year for the last 75 years.

So, vaccines do work.

You've got to have an immune system.

And look, this is an interesting conversation, John,

because you can't have conversation around this now.

You're either cancelled or you're out.

And to me, you know, I think you need to be able to have these conversations publicly

so people can educate themselves.

The problem I've got is that we're public health officials stand there, John,

and say, you need to take this product because you are letting down,

the people around you, and you are going to put at risk other people.

And we now know that was a complete falsehood.

The CEO of Pfizer and the executives at the commission hearings in Europe

are now saying, no, that product didn't prevent transmission of the illness.

It was there to try and reduce severity of it.

So, when you've got people in leadership roles, John, not telling the truth,

that leads people to question efficacy.

And I think you're right to be able to do that.

You think I'm right?

I mean, the Minister of Housing, on a Friday,

can be the Minister of Health on Monday.

And what do they know about housing except a big bunch of files?

Nothing.

So, do you think that's a failure again in public health, John, around?

And if the graph was trending towards plus 70-year-olds and 80-year-olds

with underlying health issues, perhaps a targeted approach

may have been something to consider as opposed to a mandating response.

So, I'm not questioning the efficacy.

But I think the fact that we can't actually have that conversation

causes people to be sceptical.

Well, I'm very sceptical about the thousands of kids that are vaping.

There's a change of tact, isn't there?

I know you're passionate about the world of smoking

and the fact that that still kills tens and tens of thousands of people here in Australia.

Smoking kills 53 people a day.

But the government doesn't care because the government gets $14 billion in taxes

by deliberately allowing people to die from smoking.

And now we've got bubblegum-flavoured vape products aimed at the young.

I can fix vaping in six months.

How?

I know two school principals who've agreed to put smoke detectors in their dunnies

because that's where most kids smoke.

And the kids identified and their parents have fined $2,000

for every time a kid's vaping.

So, you take a really punitive approach and just say...

Well, why are you fined if you go through a school zone?

$350 and five points.

Yeah.

Why did Dictator Dan fine $1,650 for being more than five k's from your house, not six?

Right?

People say you can't do it.

People say you can't do that.

Why was Australia the first country in that world to make seatbelts compulsory in 1970?

Because war on 1034 with the Herald Sun was, in 1969, 1,034 people died on the Victorian roads.

Now, with compulsory seatbelts, which has gone worldwide, it's 250.

So, we've brought it down by 80% with seven times as many cars.

So, being tough.

It works.

Jacinda Ardern, Prime Minister, I connected with her the other day on a...

Of New Zealand, yeah.

Yeah.

In five years' time, selling a cigarette's going to be a criminal offence.

Bill Shelton said, oh, it'll go underground.

Good.

If you've got a packet of cigarettes, they're 20 times two grand.

That's $40,000.

So, if you work for 7-Eleven and dispense...

By the way, the ACCC, Consumer Safety Law No. 1.

I spoke to Josh Frydenberg about this.

All products you supply must...

Be safe.

That's our safe.

So, why are we handing kids cancer sticks?

14,000 got addicted to them last year.

I mean, are we done?

Yeah, it's a very good point you make, isn't it?

I mean, and again, I refer back to coming out of this period of time where we were locked

in our homes for two years on the basis that that was provided to keep you safe.

And then, you know, that overlooks, you know...

And I'm with you.

It's death by a thousand cuts.

People that are addicted to smoking now are spending money on something that most of them

can't afford.

I mean, I'm with you.

I mean, no.

I mean, that is something there is consensus on.

You're going to get cancer if you smoke.

So, why not?

I mean, that is a plausible thing for me to take.

Oh, people call it a nanny state, nanny state.

Don't forget that 90% of chronic smokers start as teenagers.

They don't start when they're 50.

And the evil of, as you said, vaping now has become every...

Causes lung disease.

The CDC, the FDA in America are putting out a monthly report with the number of deaths.

That's called dead from vaping.

Yeah.

Dead from vaping.

Our government are pathetic.

Yeah.

And you've spent a lifetime, as I said, standing the world of wisdom that we've lost, haven't

you, by going to these communities that live these brilliant, connected lives, you know,

around the globe.

Can we get it back, John?

I mean, can we...

And I love you're bringing back...

They are simple messages around your attitude to life actually affects your health as well.

And there's so much research on that.

Being around family is equally important.

I mean, it sounds logical, but we've lost our way in all that space.

Can we...

Can we get it back?

Only if you listen to people like me who step away from commerciality.

I'll give you my biggest rule of nutrition, Luke.

H.I.

Human interference.

So if you took six seconds to look at a food or drink before it went into that little hole

in your face and worked out how much a human being had interfered with whatever you're

going to eat or drink.

So if it's...

If it's just been picked or grown, it ends up in the greengrocer's shop.

There aren't any greengrocer's shop.

Well, there's a couple, but there's now Woolies and Coles and IGA and Aldi's and all those

sort of things.

Now, they have fresh food.

So if you buy low human interfered with food and that fills up 80% of your plate, you're

doing good things.

If you're buying...

I'll never forget the Qantas terminal at five o'clock on a Sydney.

I'd often be in a Sydney convention on a Friday and you'd line up and in the...

When you arrive at the airport, there's...

There's things to buy.

The biggest line of suits, guilty suits, was at the donut shop.

You had to buy...

Were they Dunkin' Donuts or whatever they're called?

You had to buy a minimum of a dozen.

So you'd see every suit walk onto the Qantas plane or the Virgin plane with a box of donuts

because they're guilty.

They haven't been home from work.

So they're bringing their kids home a million calories of fat and sugar.

I mean, see, we're conned, aren't we?

Yeah.

And that it's a powerful, powerful message, isn't it?

Yeah, we're interfered.

All the advertising and...

And all of the, you know...

And what I'm surprised by, John, the lack of education...

People actually now, it's gone so far, don't understand.

If you're doing that and you understand, you know, I'm going to buy, you know, 12 donuts,

it's in the once a month rule, the rest of the time we eat healthily.

I mean, you know, that's a different perspective.

But I think most people don't even understand the damage that that sort of food does to

people's health, you know, as a rule, John.

It's something, again, I think education has been skewed.

Do you agree?

Do we think people have lost their way on that front?

Well, it's interesting.

My wife, when she went to Geelong High School, she was the captain of Geelong High.

She did things like sewing and cooking and stuff in school.

But now our daughters don't know how to sew a button back on their kids' dresses out of

whatever place.

So it's interesting what we used to get taught into school.

But I want to bring in, I've got a thing called the indestructibles.

It's all about a fruit and vegetable village where the indestructibles live.

And they live next door to a big mountain called Mel Mountain.

And there's all these nasties like Nick O'Teen and Doug Drug and all these sort of things.

And it's a battle that goes inside in your body every day.

So the more good things you can do to your body or put in it or move it, activity, cope,

eat, and don't forget your brain plugs into your body.

So to make your brain work and vice versa, your body has to work.

So fit people are mentally more efficient.

See, I'm doing a little bit of work with the AFL now.

We're calling it physical fitness, mental fitness.

You can't part them.

And so your coach, when you're playing for the Bulldogs, would scream at you at three

quarter time, tell you what to do, and then abuse you, and a mix of both.

But if you handle that and absorb that,

see, if you got somebody out of the crowd at the MCG and put them on the grand final,

you know, third quarter time against Dusty Martin, like he's got training,

he's physically and mentally adaptable to what's going on there.

They've got a plan.

They've got a coach.

They're a team, no iron team and all that sort of stuff.

But if an individual from the crowd walks, there's no planning, they're physical.

Don't forget mental health and physical health can't be parted.

So my seminars now on mental health, people actually leave with a smile on their face

and said, wow, I can handle this situation better by thinking about this and doing this.

So routine is a big part of that, John.

And you've spoken all around the world and, you know, you've had personal consultations

with, you know, the likes of Paul McCartney and Jack Nicklaus and, you know, Kerry Packer

here in Australia, George Bush.

And Donald Trump.

Donald Trump.

Yeah.

I'd have to ask you about Donald Trump as well.

So you've been speaking about this for a long period of time and the messages are simple

around exercise and around healthy living and nutrition, but we're getting sicker in

the Western world and we're getting more obese and we're going backwards.

So what's failed in the message?

Why is it such a challenge?

There is no, let's go back to role modelling.

You're going to grow up like your parents, 90% chance.

So if your parents are overweight and get fast food because they're too busy three,

four times a week and feed it to the kids, you know, that's a bonus once a month if you

win the basketball final.

So you're open for, people ask this and say, hey, hang on, John, I've got to have some

fun in my life too and I've got to have some balance.

Do you have that?

I mean, because people look at this message and say, it's just not realistic.

You know, I've got to be able to, you know, but the once a month, the occasional is where

you're at with this to get some balance.

Well, my little brother.

My little mate, Damien Oliver, whenever he wins a race, I have a beer.

So he's now 51.

There's an interesting example of mental.

I mean, he made a huge mistake in his life.

He had a bet on a horse, which is illegal.

And then he came back and he won the next Melbourne Cup.

So if that had got to him mentally and crucified the whole of his life psychologically, he

would never have ridden another horse.

But he took his medicine.

He came back.

He was suspended for whatever number of months.

And then he came back.

And he won Gaywater House, the first Melbourne Cup on a horse called Fiorente.

I mean, the other one was what he won on Media Puzzle.

His son had died a week before in a race for him.

His brother, yeah.

His brother.

So his father died.

Yeah.

And then his brother died a week before, Jason, over in Perth.

And Damien thought and thought and thought.

And he thought, what would Jason want me to do?

He'd want me to ride in the Cup.

So he wore Jason's silks.

And he won the race and waved to Jason upstairs and everything.

And so your mental toughness comes from learning, I call it the MICE approach, motivation,

inspiration, a challenge, and excitement.

So in terms of your mental efficiency or mental health, I've got three things.

You can boil it down to three things.

One is optimism.

Now, it's the difference between America and Australia.

In America, when you land at LAX and you get a newspaper,

it's called USA Today, and you flip it on the back,

and there are 50 forecasts for 50 states.

A lot of the forecasts are partly sunny.

Now, in Australia, there is not one Bureau of Meteorology

that has a computer button that says partly sunny.

It's always partly cloudy.

So it's mindset.

It's optimism.

I knew when I got brain cancer I was going to beat it because I was optimistic.

I was a new drug child of an immunotherapy drug,

and that drug wouldn't have worked if I didn't have a good immune system.

So optimism, it's called support system.

Luke, if something goes wrong today, do you go home and talk about it with your partner?

How long have you been married?

Twenty years coming up this year.

I've done 50.

I'm hoping to get there, John, at some stage.

So if your partner becomes your good friend, you can actually talk to her or talk to,

and that's where the men's cave thing comes in because women can sit

around and have a cup of tea and say, oh, did you hear about something, you know,

and they work their way out.

When men go, no, mate, just give me another beer, I'll be right, mate.

So men's failing in terms of mental health all comes down to lack of support systems.

So in a footy club, if somebody does something, you know,

get pissed one night during the week or something,

they'd be scared about fronting their player group or their, what do you call it,

the something group?

Leadership group.

Leadership group.

And telling them because they wouldn't want other people to know.

But then there are two sides to that story.

If you tell the leadership group and say, I'll never do it again because, as Richard Branson said,

an entrepreneur never succeeds until they've made mistakes.

And you learn from your mistakes.

So, and the last thing, I've invented a new pill.

What's that?

A purpose in life.

So my purpose in life for the Olivia Newton-John Foundation is to halve our cancer incidence,

and death, in the next 20 years.

I love your message, John, because it's empowering.

This podcast is called Empowering Leaves.

What you're saying is you can take back control of your own health

and give yourself the best possible chance by these lifestyle choices we make,

by coping better, however you do that, whatever the routines are that you put in place.

As you said, you know, the great Damien Oliver is a great story, isn't it?

Everyone gets hardship.

It's how you react to hardship and what you put in place.

And we're not going to have an absence of those challenges.

It's how we react.

It's the coping part, the activity part.

There's so many ways, as you said, whether it's 500 steps a day or whatever people choose to do.

And then the eating part is you put that together with community and health,

our chances of living a longer, healthy life are exponentially greater, aren't they?

Is that too simple a way to describe the message?

You've summed it up really well.

Some people, if they're in a grave depression period, say, I don't want to live, right?

So male suicide is way...

It's way above female suicides because women can talk to one another.

Number one killer for men, 24 to 54 in Australia is still suicide.

Correct.

So once again, getting back to this, I mean, what you've said is a great summary.

Write it down on a piece of paper and we'll read it out every day.

See, that's the other thing.

To externalise thing, write it on a piece of paper.

And if you're going to send it to someone to abuse them, don't send it until the next day.

Because what's it going to do for them and what's it going to do for you?

Is it going to make you feel...

Is it going to make you feel terrific?

Because the next day you're saying, no, I shouldn't be saying that.

But if you externalise your thoughts and read them yourself again tomorrow and say, righto,

is there anyone worse off from...

What's happened to me?

Is there somebody worse off?

Okay, I'm going to handle this.

I'm going to be optimistic.

I'm going to have a support system and I'm going to have a purpose in life.

I'm going to use this to fix something in the world or about me.

So...

I love that little bit of advice, John, isn't it?

So I've had that told me, you know, when you...

Fire that email off, you know, with the reaction to just pause for a day quite often, just

not even hitting send because you've typed it out and...

And most people who send an abusive email or a scamming email or whatever email, I can't

even spell.

You've had a fascinating life and so much diversity in it and, you know, I'll come back.

I need to ask you about Donald Trump at some stage.

But you've also then gone and not...

As an entrepreneur and the Hyatt Coulomb...

Is an incredible commercial achievement.

Was?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Clive Palmer took it over.

Well, that's right.

Put dinosaurs all across the course and then you built the Heritage Golf Club in the area.

Tell us about using your intellect and your skills in that space.

What sort of, you know, from a medical professional and a former AFL player, what drove you into

that world?

Yeah, that's...

It's interesting when you answer a question with, that's a very good question.

It gives you 30 seconds to think.

I...

I...

See, the other thing I'm going to ask you, Luke, before I answer the question, have you

got three people in your life that you call heroes?

Yes.

Yeah, I have.

Yeah.

Name them.

Oh, my dad was definitely a hero of mine.

And I would start there.

My wife would be the second one, the fortune.

And then I felt lucky in sport.

I've had great examples of role models of people who've got great values, who've lived their

life.

And that list could go on.

You know, the Frenchman...

I've got out of that community, who are brilliant because they're good friends to me, because

they pull you up when you may be going off the track a little bit.

Yeah.

But they're always in your corner to support you no matter what goes on.

So I feel really lucky to be surrounded by great role models.

Yeah, my first role model is a guy called George Burns, the comedian in America that

lived till he was 100.

I met him when he was 98 and handed him my book called Laughter, Sex, Vegetables and

Fish.

And he looked at it and said, Doc, he said, if I do those all together, it'll make a hell

of a mess.

He said, three out of four will do me.

And then he said, I said, would you live till you're 100?

He said, yeah, three out of four of these every day.

And I remember reading a report in the New York Times.

He was interviewed on his 100th birthday by a journalist.

The journalist said, George, congratulations, but what does your doctor say about you still

puffing away on a cigar now and again?

He said, my doctor's dead.

So George laughed his way through life till he was 100.

And he didn't retire.

He did his last stand up when he was 99.

The second one is, coming back to sport, the great Jack Nicklaus.

He, on the scoreboard, he's won 18 majors.

He's come second in 19 majors.

Nobody remembers second.

How many seconds did Greg Norman have?

Yeah, a few.

Did he have a few notable ones?

Eight.

Eight seconds, yeah.

He won two.

Jack?

He won 19, 18 and came second, 19 and third, nine.

So in Jack's first 100 majors, he came first, second and third 47 times.

And he kept telling me when I wrote the book with him, which sold a million, was translated

into French, Mandarin, sold more in China than America.

He said, Doc, he said, the most important part of equipment in any sport is the stuff

between your ears.

So, you know, that hit home to me.

And then the third hero in my life is the girl who saved my life.

Which is called Sue.

And Sue, we've been married five years and five kids and 11 grandkids.

50 years?

What did I say?

You said five.

Oh, well.

I think Sue might want to talk about the other 45.

Okay, 50.

And she used to bring my 10 veggies into hospital every night when I was being treated for brain

cancer.

And the nurses would say, we've given him his food, he doesn't eat.

So it's called immunity.

10 veggies every night.

So can I ask this question, John?

If someone lived a healthy life, you got this, you know, intuitively, or you got this, you

know, all of your life, and, you know, I've seen and read about that, and then you get

brain cancer.

I mean, do you ask the question, why?

I mean, clearly, the way you handled it, and to be as healthy and strong as you are now,

but that must have been incredibly challenging to get, you know, a brain cancer that had

five lesions in your brain.

It was inoperable.

Did you go through that period?

Yeah.

I mean, there are theoretically five stages of grief, but I didn't have time to read all

those sort of things.

I don't know.

The first thing I did was read Lance Armstrong's book, because my wife brought it in, about

his mental attitude, and I know he was a cheat, and he took certain performance-enhancing

drugs.

The but is, he survived brain cancer, and he's beaten me by five years, up to 18 years

now.

I'm at 13.

So I read that book, and then I started to think what I could do when I beat the brain

cancer.

And I didn't know what to do.

I didn't know what to do.

And I've got cancer.

I've got cancer.

I've got cancer.

And I've worked out now with all my research, cancer is gross.

The G is genetics.

There are certain cancers, like ovarian breast, prostate, where you've got to start having

checkups and tests earlier in life.

You know, so you say, see, everyone gets a poo test mailed to them when they're 45 or

something.

Do you know how many are returned?

Less than 40%.

And most returned by women.

I mean, why wouldn't you send the test back?

Right?

Why wouldn't you send the test back?

Because if you, the earlier you get, the better.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

you pick up a cancer, the more curable it is. So the gross, G is genetics, R is radiation

and pollution. I still don't hold my mobile phone against my head because I know the radiation

is higher. I hold it out there. Radiation, pollution. If you live in Beijing, it's the

equivalent of smoking 30 cigarettes a day. So why would you live in a city full of pollution?

Because that causes cancer. The O is overweight. Overweight is associated with 13 different

cancers. Now, our kids are the fifth fattest in the OECD countries in the world. Fifth

fattest. Why? Like, we've got to do something about that. So, and G-R-O-S, S, too much sunshine,

malignant melanoma, we're best in the world. S, the other S is stress. Now, if you can't

cope with life, I couldn't cope with my accountant being in jail, my best friend suing me because

of a business deal.

Don't do business with friends. You know, I lost several million dollars, blah, blah.

And people say, well, you know, who cares? I said, well, that got to me. And so the hormones

you get from can't cope diminish, they crunch your immune system. So this is why this mental

health issue, and I'm bloody good at standing on a stage, I do it for companies all over

the world now, about how to handle stuff.

Yeah.

Because if you walk into the office and somebody's shaming you or bullying you, you're not going

to get the deal done and, you know, you don't meet your KPIs and all that sort of stuff.

You've got to increase your resistance and that's called your immune system. Once again,

I can't remember the question. Oh, yeah, when I got cancer.

Well, I like the fact that, you know, I hadn't known that part, you know, like for you, there

was a whole heap of factors as well that went into that. Maybe there's some stress in your

life that got to you as well.

Immunity.

I was too busy to die. I had too much left to do.

Yeah.

So anyway, I can tell your readers.

What are they called?

Listeners.

Listeners.

Are we on TV?

We can do both.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Go out to your bookstore and buy your best immunity or go to wilkinsonpublishing.com.au.

Luke, this has been an absolute honor, mate.

And I recommend you do it because you can hear John's language. He's got a brilliant

way to simplify messages that, you know, it's a trillion dollar industry, the eating and

weight loss industry. John simplifies it in a way that is really practical and you can.

John, I've been asking these questions to different leaders from different.

From different backgrounds, whether it be sport or industry, health and wellbeing or

education or the arts, what we think great leadership looks like.

I read something you wrote. You said leadership is not your title or your position. It's action.

And we're passionate about that, John. You know, it doesn't require a title to be. And

we want everyone to see themselves. You're a leader in your own family. You're a leader

in your own classroom. Sometimes that word actually comes with a connotation when people

think it's unattainable, but where it stands.

It starts for us. And this is the first dimension I want to talk to you about is self-leadership.

The idea of what that is.

Self-management. You're managing self.

So what, explain what that means to you.

Well, you wake up in the morning, you look in the mirror. I said this to Kerry Packer

once. He rang me. I was on that TV show called, was it Celebrity Overhaul or something? We

had sort of C-grade celebrities like Murph Hughes and Ida Buttrose and all those sort

of losing weight. But then one of the sessions we had with him is, listen, I'm not going to

do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not

going to do that. And look in the mirror. I said to Kerry Packer once, he rang me, he

said, be in my office in Park Street at 12 noon on Monday. I should have said you be

in my offices, but I didn't. So anyway, I walked in and I said, what am I doing here,

Kerry? He said, call me Kerry. And every third word started with F. And he said, you've got

to organise for me to lose 50 pounds in weight. I said, with all due respect, sir, call me

Kerry.

I said, it's you who've got to lose the 50 pounds. I'm going to ring your wife. Why?

Well, I assume she hasn't cooked an effing meal for 40 years. I said, who cooks? He said,

the chefs. I said, chefs, how many have you got? He said, 11. So to have that much money

and diabetes, he was killing himself. I said, what did you have for lunch? He said, pretty

obvious, isn't it? He had two empty Big Mac packets. He had a half-eaten big thing of fries

and a glass of orange juice.

I said, where did you get the orange juice? He said, how did that? He had a phantom machine

in his office. I said, Kerry, you are killing yourself. Tonight, he said, how do I start?

You go home tonight, take all your clothes off, stand in front of your bedroom mirror

sideways and say, is this the most magnificent machine I've ever seen? See, we're all born

as magnificent machines. What are you doing to yourself? So you start by looking in the

mirror when you get home or get into bed tonight and say, what are you doing to yourself?

What have I got to do to self-manage, to help myself? Activity, coping, eating. Go and

buy the Doc's books and subscribe to whatever and get your best immunity and start managing

yourself because it'll rub off on your partner and your kids.

And I love it, isn't it? Literally, it is looking in the mirror. For us to do that,

it's confronting, but effectively, all the choices are ours, aren't they? And your life

has been espousing those benefits. And I love the fact that you're generally the link now

to all of these terrible illnesses.

So much of that is in our own control as self-leadership. We see leaders are really

conscious now, the good ones, around how they positively impact other people now. And they're

really conscious around that. I mean, John, I love, I'm sitting at this desk surrounded

by articles and information around how to positively impact others. How have you gone

about, how have you thought about your impact on others in a positive way? What have you

done?

Well, I get pleased when I get emails and LinkedIn, what do you call them? Tweets or

something?

Saying, you know, thanks for your advice, blah, blah. I had a couple of people yell

at me the other day on LinkedIn saying I didn't respect the 88 people who died in the Bali

bombings. And I said, I'm a medical doctor. I respect all human beings. But will you turn

up to the memorial we have next year for the half a million people the government have

killed from smoking this century? Like, the government has allowed the deaths, preventable

deaths of half a million people this century.

Like,

it's the, I'll make a statement. A cigarette is the biggest single killer ever sold in

Australia. Name one thing that's killed more people. Atom bombs? No. Wars? No. Alcohol?

No. Suicide? No. Atom altogether? Smoke is way ahead. We are handing teenagers stuff

to get them addicted, to make the government $14 billion a year in tax.

And I find this conversation, coming out of the COVID period, where we've been prepared

to,

you know,

take that extreme punitive approach to try and protect people. And again, you gotta be,

you know, I love you're not careful, John, you're unfiltered, but you can't even have

this conversation to say, you know, COVID killed people. That is really sad. But you've

got to be able to talk around diabetes kills 10 times more people every year. Totally preventable.

Totally lifestyle, you know.

Type two is. Type one is.

Type two, let me.

Type two is our fault. Type one's not. It's your genetically.

So let me make that very clear. So, but I want to, you know, make that clear. So, but I want to, you know, make that clear.

So let me make that very clear. So, but I want to, you know, make that clear. So, but I want to, you know,

cross over a line.

Do you know what type three diabetes is?

What's type three?

It's the half of people with diabetes that don't know it.

Yeah.

See, next year there'll be 150,000 new diabetics in Australia. And they've got pre-diabetes

and they don't know they've got diabetes. What are you doing to yourself?

Yeah. And that's lifestyle, isn't it? That's the role modeling that you've spoken about.

Yeah.

I mean, we don't get to take these extreme measures around something that's probably 0.002% mortality.

And yet things that are 10 times to more times that are costing lives, we don't take that same sort of measure.

And I think that's a conversation that is more pertinent now than ever before.

I mean, you've got a, creating and sharing a vision is another dimension of leadership.

We see great leaders. You're a multi-million selling author around the globe and you've connected with people everywhere.

I mean, how have you, you've got a clear vision for the future.

You've got a clear vision for your life. How have you gone about sharing and creating it?

In the past or in the future?

Well, maybe both. Yeah.

Well, there's a thing in the world called influences. Some of them share BS on social media and some of them have a vision which is going to help everyone in the world.

So I've been to meetings overseas with the World Health Organization and the way they see the world.

And at least half our chronic disease, more like 70% of our chronic diseases, Chad, cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, diabetes, dementia, are preventable.

We are giving it to ourselves.

So the vision is to make it sensible, practical, doable, that people can, activity.

Luke, you're awake for 238 half hours a week. Did you know that?

I didn't know that.

Okay.

At 238, do you usually choose six or seven that you're moving briskly?

I'd say yes, yeah.

Okay. Well, you're one of 10% of Australians who do.

The other 90% are going towards slob land who said they haven't got time.

Get your diary out on a Sunday night and choose six half hours in the next week where you're going to take yourself for a brisk walk.

And if you won't do it, put 10 bucks in a jar and take a mate.

And if he doesn't turn up or she doesn't turn up, they put 10 and at the end of the year, you're going to have a great party.

So that's all you need.

Six half hours.

A total body movement briskly.

You've got to be aerobic as Latin for with oxygen, getting oxygen around your heart, your lungs, and opening up your coronary arteries and all that.

Coping, we've got 30 R things, relaxation things.

You've got to do two every day.

People say, what are you talking about?

I say, well, do you take three deep breaths every hour?

And you've got to know how to breathe.

I can show you on a video or something.

Diaphragm breaths, deep breaths, because if you take three deep breaths in a row,

you'll either get dizzy, because you've never done it before,

or your blood pressure will sink 10 points and your pulse rate 10 points.

See, half the people on blood pressure pills probably don't need them if they did their three deep breaths every hour.

So there's lots of other R things.

Like, Luke, have you sent a thank you note in the last week?

Yeah, I have.

You sent one to me last night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I'm, you know, it's probably the way you were brought up.

Have you watched a sunset or a sunrise in the last week?

Yeah, I have.

Yeah.

Well, I was called smug on a podcast here recently with a beautiful cheerio pit, which made me laugh.

She said, geez, you're smug with your morning routine.

But I'm not.

I am.

Maybe I am.

But I'm passionate about this space because, you know, I'm lucky.

I'm married to someone who's a meditation teacher, who's into yoga.

And so that influence rubs off.

And then the idea of having kids that are healthy, not perfect, still make plenty of blues.

But I love sharing this conversation because…

Do you hug someone you love every day?

That would happen, too, yeah.

What's the cat's name?

Exactly.

Oh, do you meditate before sex or after?

Well, that's a good question, too, because I feel lucky to have found meditation many,

many years ago.

But again, people, again, they feel like, geez, I'm going to live this boring life.

My wife just says, stop talking about it to people because it sounds like you're selling

Amway.

And I'm like, or not.

It's just something that I know when you…

Well, you've got the pill.

You've got a purpose in life.

And the last thing, E, is eating.

I'll give you another rule.

Make sure you don't eat too much.

Make sure you don't eat too much.

Make sure you don't eat too much.

Make sure you don't eat too much.

Make sure you don't eat too much.

Make sure that 70% of everything you put in your face is plant-based.

Yeah.

Okay?

Less flesh.

I've got some work on that one.

Okay.

Fantastic to be here, Luke.

Maybe we can do some stuff with the leader and meet each other again?

I'd love to.

Before you wrap me up, I've got a couple more for you that I want to continue on with.

Yeah.

Good.

Fantastic to be back, Luke.

So, you don't eat too much.

You eat talked.

You drink too much.

You eat too little.

You eat too much.

You eat too little.

You eat too little.

It's not a bad thing to keep the flavor in a meal and you keep it for a meal.

Yeah, yeah.

You've got to get full.

on. Curiosity is a word we see really attached to people who do great things and they approach

their life through curiosity. Does that resonate with you? Yeah, my first curious thing was why

are so many patients coming to see a doctor when a lot of them in aging situations just want to

chat? The but is they expect to get a prescription for something. I mean, we had a party one day when

somebody invented a new name for Valium because you could prescribe something different. I mean,

this is really basic, stupid stuff. Nearly half prescriptions written by doctors now are for

mind-altering substances like Valium and antidepressants. Our kids have never been

more medicated than ever before.

ADHD and every second child in Australia now it feels is medicated from young age. And again,

you're getting into, I love the fact that you're just going to call it as you see it, John. I mean,

it's confronting for people to have these conversations. I mean, I find the thing,

we're medicating our pets. I mean, I look at our dogs. Dogs are the happiest creature you've ever

met in your life. And half of our dogs are being medicated now. How can a dog be sad if that's the

case? I'm with you. The other curious thing lately,

is how can a human being, like, what's his name? The Russian guy, Putin. How can he literally go

next door and slaughter human beings? For what? What is it, power or glory or something?

Why do people go and kill other human beings? It's really curious to me.

It's for greed, isn't it? And greed and power. And it's, you know, I look at that, you know,

again, as a...

Why do we stop, you know, read your book? Why do you stop talking to a family member? Why do you

get in a blue with your neighbor? When you think of life, it's not that important, is it? You know,

we all have relationships that shift and change, but it feels like that's, you know, maybe the

extreme manifestation of where the world's at, isn't it? Where, you know, you can't believe...

Yeah, and the last curious thing is kids. Like, kids, when you're a teenager, you take risks

because you're immortal, you're impenitent, you're bulletproof. But as we age, and see,

the dangerous decade used to be 45 to 55. That's when things called menopause and womanopause,

it's personopause now, happen. And women's hormones dropped dramatically. So they get hot

flushes or flashes and all those sort of things, and they get upset. But men go through menopause,

personopause, as the hormones drift off more slowly. But men go through this stage about,

you know, what am I doing in life?

Sure.

Should I change my job? Do I need a new wife? Do I go and buy a Porsche or a Maserati,

you know, to show people that I'm really with it, all this sort of stuff. So

the curiosity is, why don't we look after ourselves more? Why are we getting so sick

in Australia with the cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, diabetes, dementia? Life be in it,

and had an 80% awareness rate, but the KPIs, it didn't work because the hero was an anti-hero.

Ah, slob on the safe.

Yeah.

With a beer and a cigarette and all that sort of stuff. And last thing, what can I do to help

someone else in the next week? I love the messaging, communication with clarity. You've

got a great skill when you read your books around condensing stuff, and you can hear the acronyms

come out, whether it's ACE or I love your work on the four ACEs in the pack. And, you know,

did you refine that over time? I mean, you've spoken around the world, as we said, to numerous

people.

How have you thought about your communication?

I get my best ideas on an aeroplane or in a coffee shop or on a beach. When you're on a beach,

you realise how insignificant you are. When you look at the world or a sunset or the rocks or

something and the waves crashing and all those sharks out there, you know, sharks kill 1.7

Australians a year, and cigarettes kill 20,000 a year. And people say, oh, I'm really scared of

sharks. And eating fast food, I'm really scared of sharks. And eating fast food, I'm really scared

of sharks. And eating fast food, I'm really scared of sharks. And eating fast food, you know, causes all

these problems. So how fast do we need to be? Why not some slow food? Go home and cook it for

yourself. Anyway, curiosity killed the cat, and it's not going to kill me, and it's not going to

kill you, Luke. So good to see you, mate.

John, we talk about collaboration, and Luke, you're really passionate about the idea of

collaborating. I see that as a bit of a superpower. How has that been for you in your life,

collaboration?

I've been told I have a way to do it. I've been told I have a way to do it. I've been told I have a way to do it.

It's a way of communicating so that people remember. So I was voted in America by the

Million Dollar Roundtable Insurance Conference as the, what do they call it, the best take-home

value. The best testimonial I've ever had was from a leader in the Young Presidents

Organization at an international conference when he said, Dr. John was the best speaker

at the conference. He said, the way I measure my life, I measure my life, I measure my

future, the worth of a speaker, is how many times you look at your watch. I didn't. So if I can

discuss something in a way that you understand and communicate it in a way that you can go home

and say, I can do that. So look at your diary on Sunday and make an appointment with yourself for

six half hours next week to move your body. Coping, do a relaxation thing. We'll send you out

an email. We'll do some relaxation. Do some relaxation. Do some relaxation. Do some relaxation.

You can't do it everyday. And eating, 70% of that food that goes in your face is of

plant origin and takes six seconds to look at a food or drink and work out how much a

human being has, I can't say the F word, how much a human being has interfered with it.

Hi.

They're brilliant takeaways.

And go and buy my book Your Best Immunity.

Yeah, absolutely. I can highly recommend doing that. I took it away on holiday a week ago

and you write notes. You write notes because they're practical things that reinforce it.

The other thing is the three by three.

You have to get out of your environment three days, three times a year.

People haven't got time.

So put a day on the end of a long weekend.

Get out of your environment.

What do you mean, James?

Go somewhere different, change the scenery.

Yeah, you might go by yourself with a mate and go fishing

or you might go with your best friend if it's your partner

and get a book and, you know, a motel with a palm tree out the front

or something.

Just something totally different.

But take a book and no phones and get three times a year,

get out of your environment for three days so you can just think

about yourself and your best friend and what you're going to do

for somebody else in the next three months, including yourself.

And that's genius.

Again, I love the idea of that and making that happen.

And as you said, it doesn't have to be restrictive.

You don't have to go far, but you can get away.

I've said this a few times.

I've got to ask you about Donald Trump.

You've met and you've coached and you've counselled

fascinating people, but no one on the planet has got more currency

at the moment, good or bad, however you view it.

What was your encounter like with Donald Trump?

When I spoke at the same conference as he did and he was in the wings,

obviously, for the last five or ten minutes of my presentation,

as I walked off, he said,

good job, Doc, do you want to come into my room and have a chat

for five minutes?

And I looked at him and I said, are you sure?

He said, yeah.

And he showed me into his green room, as they call it.

Why do they call it a green room?

A green room, I've got no idea.

Anyway, I thought to myself, and I said to him,

what do I call you, like, sir?

Or he said, you know, just, you know, Donald.

And I realised he was a golf freak, so I said, by the way,

can you wait 30 seconds?

I've got a gift for you.

And he looked at me, he said, a gift for me?

And I ran out and got the book I'd written with Jack Nicklaus,

Golf and Life, which is not about golf being,

Jack's being the greatest golfer, it's about the attitude,

the attitude you need to win.

And I ran back in and gave him the book, and he looked at the book

and he looked at me, and he didn't say thank you,

he said, oh, next time you see Jack, say hello from me.

So anyway, for the 10 minutes, he seemed like a regular guy,

chatting away, but as soon as he left me and went on the stage,

he's a schizophrenic, he's two different people.

So he talked in his presentation 90% of the time about himself,

but told people...

The word, leadership, how to be a leader, how to get...

A lot of it was what you'd call fake news,

but he had some threads there.

See, he became the President of the USA with a clever mantra,

let's make America great again.

Now, that's a reason...

And his opponent was a chick called Hillary Clinton.

And he cleverly worked his way into a position,

where it's can you trust her?

I run a business, I've made billions of dollars,

America is a business,

you need someone who knows how to run a business.

So he cleverly engaged enough people on the collegiate system,

whatever it's called, to win the presidency,

and I know a lot of my mates, business people in America,

want him back again.

Now, half the country hate him,

and half the country love him.

So he's that sort of...

He diverts people one way or the other.

You don't sit on the fence with a Donald Trump.

So I liked him for 10 minutes when we were chatting,

but when he got on the stage, I'm going,

is this real?

So have I answered what...

Yeah, I think...

He's two people, he's a schizophrenic.

Yeah, I mean, it's a whole other podcast, that one,

I think, John, isn't it, around...

Yeah, you know, perhaps...

What happened post-losing the last election

and riots on the Capitol,

and I think there'll be some strong thought on that,

but clearly there's some genius there.

There has to be, to be able to get that messaging across.

There's just 74 million people still voted for him last election.

It's a fascinating...

Do you think voting should be compulsory or not?

I'm not big on mandating almost anything,

but I think in a democracy, you know, over the age of 18,

to feel like, you know, to take a seat at the table

and have to participate in it,

I think that's one of the challenges

with the American system, isn't it,

is that you only get such a small turnout.

I like the idea you've got to front up and at least...

Do you think we should ban the biggest killer product of all time,

like Jacinda Ardern's doing?

Yeah, you make a compelling case on that.

I'm not a smoker.

I don't get it.

I don't understand it.

You know, again, historically, I'd say banning things

is not really...

But this is so overwhelmingly...

And I think what we're doing effectively is just...

For those poor people, I think, who actually can't...

really get over the fact that they're addicted to smoking,

we're making life, you know, worse for them

by, you know, charging whatever the price is now.

I think it's...

I'm with you on that.

I think it makes sense.

The other point that we should mention

is 10% of cigarette deaths is secondhand smoke,

so it's associated with sudden infant death syndrome.

It's associated with stillbirths.

You know, as I said, 40% of Aboriginal women

smoke when they're pregnant.

I mean, the other way to stop it is to ban it

and...

Fine people for doing something that is dangerous,

like speeding through school zones.

Yeah, it seems like a free hit, that one, you know,

if we're in the business, we're trying to help people and save.

It doesn't seem like a big stretch, you know,

and I think your other messages around educating people

on how to eat, how to connect and how to...

are equally as important.

Who's been the greatest leader in your life, John?

Sue, my wife.

50 years of marriage?

51.

What did you...

You only get 20 years for murder, don't you?

It's...

Yeah, when you get a soulmate who...

The thing about Sue is that even daughter-in-laws

who tend not to like their daughter-in-laws, son-in-laws,

and grandkids, you know, when they see Nana Sue,

they run up and hug her and...

Oh, that's the other thing.

Nana, where's the FP100?

That's the fruit patty.

See, there's always a fruit platter living in our fridge

because kids won't eat an orange because it's too sticky,

but if you chop...

If you spend 10 minutes every three days

chopping up fruit into bite-sized chunks,

kids will run it.

They'll eat it after school, you know?

I'm in that bracket.

You cut it up and I can't stop eating it.

FP100, fruit patty.

And one more thing.

A bit of gold.

When your kids get home from school,

my mum used to say, be home by dark.

So I was outside playing footy in the creek,

in the cricket,

in the gutter and doing mud pies.

See, 50 years ago, 2% of kids had allergy.

Now it's 40% because they never get dirty.

And if the baked beans fall on the floor,

go and eat them.

Like, oh, don't touch them.

They've got bacteria.

And then you see ads for this kills 99.9% of bacteria.

You've got to have a few bacteria around

to develop an immune system.

That's your immunity.

Well, my fear on that, John, is that, you know,

we're, you know,

kids in grade two were in master school for the last two years

and, you know, hand sanitiser and I get, you know,

people will go hard on this and say,

hey, we're at a threatening situation.

But really, you know, training, you know,

I know the kids at school now are nervous when they cough

because they've been trained as though that's a, you know,

as you know, your immune system, the spread of microbiome,

it cannot stop regardless.

And my fear is we've exacerbated that,

not gone the other way.

Well, if a virus gets inside a live host,

so if a virus gets inside a human being, a bird or an animal,

it will mutate.

It changes its own genetics.

So unless your immune system is spot on and efficient,

then that virus is going to spread through your body.

So your best bet is to get a great immune system.

Go and buy my book, Your Best Immunity.

I love it.

Final question, John.

We are passionate about the world of collaboration

and, you know, the work we're doing at Alita

around inspiring connections.

And creating a world of collaboration.

If you've caught up with remarkable people

across your life everywhere,

has there been one person you thought,

you've collaborated with Jack Nicklaus on a book?

Has there been someone else you thought,

God, if I could collaborate with one person in the world

on any of your passions,

is there one person that springs to mind?

Apart from Sue and George Burns and Jack Nicklaus,

I would, whoa, that's a tough one.

Peter Hudson, he's become a good friend.

Jerry Ryan, gives back.

Ah, there's a whole heap of people.

I'm starting, I don't know whether I mentioned it, Luke,

the great Australian health rescue.

People who actually get things done,

non-government, not constricted by rules

or Parliament House or anything like that.

It's people who actually get,

oh, Serena Russo, have you heard of Serena?

Brisbane based, yeah, she's,

she's a great person.

She's a great person.

She's a great person.

She's a great person.

She's a great person.

She's a great person.

She's a great person.

She probably runs the biggest recruitment agency in Australia.

Jeff Slade, he's another one.

There's a lot of people around there.

And see, Jeff Kennett, who stepped down as,

he agreed to become CEO of Beyond Blue for two years

because nobody else would do it.

He did it for 11 years.

Julia Gillard's just taken over.

So you have to have respect for our first ever woman,

woman Prime Minister who got stabbed in the back

and all that sort of stuff.

She's a great person.

She's now taken over Beyond Blue

because this mental health thing is,

it's challenging.

Everyone has mental health issues.

It's how you handle it.

And I can help people with mental health issues

by getting support systems,

getting optimistic and getting a purpose in life.

So Luke, I reckon you've got all those three.

And John, it's been a great pleasure to catch up with you again.

It's been a long while and I love the work that you do.

And the projects are brilliant.

Your best immunity, build resistance, the ACE way.

I couldn't recommend that more highly.

And Australia, the healthiest country by 2020.

I'm just looking at that project.

You know, it couldn't be more worthwhile.

As you said, the numbers suggest Australia is going off a cliff

in terms of health and cancer and obesity.

So these messages are as important as anything we can do.

John, I thank you for taking the time.

I really appreciate it.

Pleasure, Luke.

You're a good guy.

Empowering Leaders was presented by me, Luke Darcy,

produced by Matt Dwyer,

with audio production by Darcy Thompson.

To start your leadership journey,

I encourage you to go to elitacollective.com,

take our Empowering Leaders Indicator tool

and understand the impact you have on your environment.

Join us at Elita to learn, lead and collaborate.