Donna Urquhart Running 1300Km In 25 Days Across Antarctica To Keep Girls In Sport
I'm sure you're going to enjoy this week's episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast
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Published 9 days agoDuration: 1:121244 timestamps
1244 timestamps
I'm sure you're going to enjoy this week's episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast
with the remarkable Donna Urquhart.
She's not a professional athlete.
She simply started walking her child in a pram that turned into a deep love of running
that now sees her attempting to complete a world record ultra marathon across Antarctica.
Donna is also a professor and expert in the world of pain research.
And she explains in this chat, the way we think about pain is being looked at
in a completely different way.
Donna explains that we now know the brain makes choices around how we interpret pain.
Donna has a huge passion to inspire the next generation of young females to stay in sport.
She believes that we need to teach our young girls the mental skills
and the resilience that will help more of them stay in sport for longer.
A really inspiring story.
People like Donna Urquhart who inspire the work we do at Alita,
in particular, our Alita Connect program.
And we're super passionate about facilitating groups of five to six people around the globe.
You don't have to be attempting a Guinness World Record like Donna to be part of Alita Connect.
Head to alitacollective.com to check out our programs.
Huge thanks to the team at Temper, a mattress like no other.
We know success leaves clues.
And one of the key elements to that is having a good night's sleep.
And people like Donna Urquhart who are attempting world records like this
understand the value of great sleep.
So thank you as always to the team at Temper.
Donna Urquhart is an ultramarathon runner, physiotherapist and pain scientist
aiming to set a polar ultramarathon record in December this year
at Union Glacier in Antarctica by running 1,300 kilometres over 30 days.
Donna and her team are leaving for Antarctica on the 11th of December 2023.
See Donna take a deep breath. It's not far away.
Her mission is to show what humans are capable of while raising $1.5 million
to support the next generation of young females
who are alarmingly dropping out of sport at a rate of 50%
in the age bracket of 15 to 19 years of age.
We know this then leads to a range of health issues,
increase in stress, lack of confidence, anxiety,
many body image related challenges and more.
Run Antarctica is a world first Guinness World Records attempt
by Donna Urquhart to complete the longest ultramarathon in polar region history.
Donna, great to see you.
Hi Luke, thank you very much for having me on.
What a huge effort you're about to undertake.
You're an associate professor at Monash University specialising in pain management.
What you're about to do is pretty crazy and there's some pain coming your way.
What are you hoping to teach us?
Well, I'm certainly a pain specialist and I will certainly be
experiencing a little bit of pain in the next month.
Look, I'm really keen to get over to Antarctica.
Attempt this record and really learn myself about what's involved physically
and mentally going through an endurance challenge like this.
You know, I've never experienced something like this before
and this is a huge dream for me.
So really to experience it and learn it and then come back here
and I guess impart those physical and mental skills that I've learnt,
particularly to young girls who tend to drop out of sport in their
teenage years.
Donna, a lot of us spend a lot of time trying to avoid pain.
Is learning to deal with a bit of pain in your mind a healthy thing for us?
Yeah, I think so.
Look, I have certainly experienced, I've been running ultra marathons now
for 10 years and when I first started, I was really fearful of pain
and I started with small amounts of running and gradually built up
and I still remember I went and did.
I did a 100 kilometre event and at the end of that 100 kilometres,
I was like, oh my gosh, I couldn't actually take another step.
I am so sore and so exhausted and I found myself six months later
rocking up to a 24-hour event and thinking, my gosh,
that 100 kilometres will take me halfway through that 24-hour event.
How am I possibly going to go on after that?
And it was incredible.
I stopped.
I was incredibly sore and what I found was that I saw other people
on the track and I saw other people still continuing,
whether they were walking or running and I thought, well, look,
maybe I can go a little bit further and I did and I learnt that I could
actually still function and still do things with that discomfort
and we actually find that with our pain research and I'm a physio
and I work with patients and what we do find,
is that pain is not necessarily a message to stop,
that we can actually do a hell of a lot still when we're in discomfort.
You did an interesting study, I read, Donna,
with ultramarathon runners and putting your hand in a freezing bucket of ice.
Tell us about that.
Yeah, so we did a really interesting study where we took 20 ultramarathon runners
and 20 controls and we asked them to do what's called a cold presser test.
So they needed to put their hand in icy cold water,
which I can tell you, Luke, as soon as you put your hand in,
you want to take it out of it, out of that water as quickly as you can
and, yeah, we asked them to rate their pain during the time.
At the end, we found that the ultramarathon runners
could actually keep their hand in longer and they rated their pain less as well
compared to the healthy controls and essentially that says
that the ultramarathon runners had a greater pain tolerance.
They could...
They could manage the pain better.
But we also asked the question,
could psychological factors have an influence there?
And we found that, in fact,
the ultramarathon runners had less fear and anxiety around the pain.
That was what we call a cross-sectional study.
So we just took the measures at one point in time.
So we can't necessarily talk about what's the chicken or the egg.
You know, do they have less anxiety and fear to begin with?
Or is it potentially something they develop?
But there are certainly studies that show that if you take athletes
and you take them and measure them across a season of training,
that their pain tolerance does improve.
So it's suggesting that you can actually improve your pain tolerance over time.
And I have certainly experienced that anecdotally
with my experience in ultramarathon running
is that I feel like I have less fear and anxiety around that.
And I certainly have been able to increase the distances
and the challenges I set myself because of that.
Oh, I think we'd all relate to that, isn't it?
That once you find that capacity within yourself,
you are less fearful next time and you can potentially go further
in whatever discipline it could be.
And I think of the parenting lens in this, Donna, to me,
I feel like, you know, in 2023, we've got a generation as parents,
I'm a parent of four, where we want to try and avoid
any form of pain or discomfort for our kids.
It's because it breaks our heart.
We don't want them to be sad or don't want them to not get invited
to a party at school, or we don't want them to miss out on something.
And so we climb all over the top of them to avoid that pain.
It's well-meaning, but I feel like we're teaching a whole generation
that, do you know what, don't push through at all.
Is that something that you see as well?
Yeah, like the helicopter parenting that you're talking about.
And look, I think that feeds into part of our Run Antarctic approach,
that sport is such an incredible medium for young people
to learn about the challenges of life.
Like, they learn about losing, they learn about their own expectations,
about being part of a team.
There's so much that they learn.
So putting them in that environment, I think, is just an incredible way
for them to learn that, and we can step back from that.
The only thing that we see through our project
and through the Run Antarctic project,
and through the charity that we have established,
is that we feel that kids can actually be provided
with the appropriate mental and coping skills.
So they have skills to draw on during those challenges in sport.
And as you know, Donna, and the work you're doing,
I love in this area that the numbers I mentioned in the intro there,
50% of girls 15 to 19 are quitting sport,
and the health outcomes are at a rate of 2 to 1 for boys around the same age.
And we know that girls that compete in sports,
sport, their body image is much healthier than those that don't.
And you can, the list goes on and on.
And you and I both live in a city where, you know,
teenage girls were out of school for two years through the COVID period,
which set off a whole heap of other, you know, dramatic challenges.
And we literally took them away from those things,
whether they wanted to or not.
Are you seeing that even more alarming given what's happened there?
Yeah, absolutely.
Look,
that's part of the reason that I'm doing this run is I think doing a run
like this creates a lot of attention and it actually provides us with a
platform to raise awareness of this issue.
And I certainly have seen it personally.
I'm heavily involved in community sport through my family and I've spent,
you know, every weekend I'm at basketball courts and at tournaments.
And one thing that has struck me over the last five years,
is just sitting watching.
And I've been at tournaments where virtually every game a child has come off
and they're either in tears, head in their hands,
banging the bench,
just really emotional or frustrated with something in particular that has
happened.
And it just struck me that we teach them such incredible physical skills,
like, you know,
how to perfect a kick in football,
or how to shoot a three-pointer or whatever it might be.
But,
you know,
there's such a opportunity to teach them coping skills of how to deal with
those various challenges sports provide.
Yeah,
struck on a great passion.
Rod Campbell did this podcast with me.
He's created a learning life through sport.
I think it's,
you're doing this in a beautiful way as well.
And I,
you know,
spent a big part of the last 20 years in junior sport with the four kids and
you,
the responsibility,
to make it as welcoming and as appropriate for everyone,
whatever ability levels,
it's huge,
isn't it?
If you want kids to be able to see that as their happy and safe place,
it's going to be challenging for them at times,
but you know,
we know what happens when they drop out.
We know we train them back to the screens.
And,
you know,
particularly as you said,
for young,
it seems a lot more complicated in some ways for young girls,
it seems a lot more challenging as the numbers would suggest.
And is that where your passion for this has come from?
Yeah,
I'm shocked that the numbers are that significant.
Like,
you know,
I have two nieces,
which I adore and they both love their sport.
They're both still in primary school,
but the stats show that one of them will not continue sport and will not be
playing sport in their,
you know,
16 and above,
which I think is just really unfortunate.
Like we know the incredible benefits of sport,
you know,
you and I have experienced them,
the physical benefit,
just to our mental health,
the friendships and the social connection that you have through your sport.
And for girls to be losing that so young,
I think is just,
um,
just really unfortunate.
And,
you know,
I also speak from myself,
sport has been such an incredible vehicle for my life.
And yeah,
if we can keep girls in sport,
if they can feel valued in a sporting environment,
and you probably,
no doubt through your sporting background,
have experienced perhaps support from mental skills,
coaches or sports psychologists of,
you know,
how you can incorporate mental imagery and self-talk and,
and all those skills that help you deal with challenges on the sporting field.
You know,
imagine if girl,
young girls and potentially young boys who there is also a high dropout rate,
if they can be taught those at a young age,
they go along to training,
they learn how to kick a football,
but a component of their training session is about how to incorporate visualisation or how to learn their value in a team.
Imagine how incredible that would be for them to learn those in a sporting environment.
Yeah.
And they're not difficult to teach and you can incorporate them.
Absolutely.
If that's your,
your mission to do it,
you know,
the hyper competitiveness,
sometimes a junior sport takes over the desire to actually make it healthy for kids.
And I,
I'm thinking of Sienna,
our daughter is 18 now,
but you know,
what was she 14,
15 in the lockdown period?
And she was a rower and they were doing ergos on the screen and she hated it,
hated it because the part that she loved was the team part,
being on the water,
being in a boat.
And you took all that away and only got the pain part,
ergos of pain and none of the connection.
And you could just see how delicate that was around.
I may quit.
I may not do this.
And fortunately,
luckily,
you know,
she did and life changing,
life changing to go back and have that discipline to get up.
And,
but we've lost,
I feel like a generation who didn't quite get through and,
and we're not talking about it because it's uncomfortable to talk about.
No one wants to say,
you know,
the last weeks of lockdown in the city,
600 teenage girls a week were getting diagnosed with an eating disorder.
It was a perfect storm for all this.
So again,
great credit to you for,
for going to put yourself through extreme pain and run 30,
1300 kilometers and a Guinness world record.
I couldn't be more supportive.
I think people listen to this and they say,
look,
Donna's a bit of a freak.
Like,
you know,
seriously,
no one's going to sign up for 60 Ks a day on Antarctica in freezing conditions.
People won't think that's attainable for them.
What are some practical ways you can teach us as a pain specialist to push
through that discomfort that we all feel?
Luke,
the first thing I would say is,
you know,
people may think that I'm crazy,
but,
but I just see myself as the lady that lives down the road.
Who's a neighbor or a friend,
you know,
I'm a mom.
I work in pain science and I just love running and I've loved running for,
for many years,
but really just took up running as a mom.
My son had just come along.
It was hard to get out the door to do other sports.
So I just threw on my runners and started walking with the pram and then jogging
and that turned into running.
And 10 years later,
you know,
I'm where I am now running ultra marathons.
And so I guess the first thing would be is,
you know,
I'm not a professional athlete and I don't think there's anything particularly
special that I bring to the table that other people don't.
I think it's just the dedication and the discipline from a pain science
perspective.
I think probably my understanding of pain assists me.
So many years ago with respect to pain,
we essentially thought pain was a message from the tissues.
Like if you'd sprained your ankle and your ligament was torn,
a message would come from your ligament up to your brain and your brain would go,
Oh,
I'm feeling pain.
And now we understand that is very different.
It's not so simple.
It's much more complex.
And what happens when that message comes to the brain is that the brain pulls on
a whole lot of information from other areas,
so your past experiences,
your mood at the time,
what you're thinking,
your emotions,
a whole range of things go into interpreting that experience.
So you actually have a lot of control over how you experience pain.
And I think that's one of the key things that I'll be taking with me,
that I can actually have a control.
I have control over my experience.
And some people just naturally have a high threshold for pain.
Is that a DNA trait,
do you think?
Our oldest son,
you know,
maybe his brain's not fully formed,
I'm not sure,
but he seems to be able to cope with extreme pain,
you know,
seeing him break ankles and then continue to,
you know,
where he shouldn't be able to walk and walk home.
And you just don't see him complain about pain ever.
Part of me thinks the neuron's not working,
but he seems to just be able to cope.
Is that inherent in him or is it learned?
Well, good question.
Like, I guess it's that nature-nurture question again, isn't it?
And yeah, look, I think it's probably a combination of the two.
You might be able to speak to that in terms of the nurture aspect
and how you've essentially, you know,
when he's come to you with discomfort,
how you've responded to that,
because there's certainly a component of that
in how young people perceive pain.
His mother's pretty tough, though.
I'm going to put it on.
I think Bex, she likes them to get on with things.
So maybe they didn't get the reception around.
I think you can push on.
That's a good self bit of reflection there for sure.
I love the idea in my mind now, Donna,
about delayed gratification for the sense of Akita happiness.
It's, you know, the snooze button in the morning is always there, isn't it?
Not to get up and train for Run Antarctica or, you know,
you see a donut and you think that looks good.
I might, but no, I won't,
because I know it makes me feel,
shit afterwards or I could quit sport
because it's uncomfortable at the moment,
but I'm not going to.
I'm going to push through and go to another session
and another session.
Does that resonate with you that we really find freedom
in the discipline of delayed gratification at times?
I very much love the opportunity
and thrive in the opportunity to set a challenge
and especially something that scares the hell out of me,
but also excites me.
And I think if you've got a goal like that
and it's long-term and you're committed to that,
you will delay gratification for that.
And look, I think everyone's human
and that can wax and wane as you go along.
You know, I certainly have days where, you know,
I just don't want to go out for that run
and I'll procrastinate and I'll do everything under the sun
to stop walking out the door.
And I'll find that even though I was supposed to go
for a run an hour later,
I'm still sitting around answering emails.
Or you're responding to messages.
I'm sure, you know, when you open the door
to the cold storage container and truck a niner
in the outer suburbs of Melbourne
and dial it down to minus 10,
there must be some moments where,
as part of your training for this,
you've thought about maybe getting a second coffee.
But I love your story.
I think it's brilliant.
A pain professor, you know,
who's now taking on an ultramarathon record in Antarctica
to inspire a generation of young females
to live a better life.
It's such a brilliant thing you're undertaking.
In lots of ways, it's the ultimate leadership story,
which I'm really passionate about.
Have you always seen yourself as a leader?
Look, it's funny you ask that, Luke,
because when I started this project a year ago,
I was essentially working on my own.
I was tapping away at my computer,
researching things and very insular.
You know, I'm not an extrovert and, you know,
to some extent I'm a little bit shy.
And so it took me a long while to actually reach,
reach out to people and say,
look, this is what I want to do.
And to begin with, it actually started,
you know, I'd be running with a friend
and they'd be like, what's your next goal?
And I'd go, oh, I'm thinking about Antarctica.
And they'd go, oh, really?
You're going to do the marathon there,
which they have a 42.2K marathon in Antarctica.
And I'd sort of go, oh yeah, that's, that's it.
And so, yeah, look, it just, for me,
it was a process of starting to talk to people.
And I was working on my own.
It's just been incredible by reaching out to people,
both, you know, obviously to begin with,
in my network of friends and family
and getting used to speaking about this big dream,
this big audacious goal.
And then they connected me with people that I didn't know
and starting to speak to them about it.
And just organically people have come on board
and I'm just really blown away
and I have to pinch myself.
Sometimes I'm just like, oh, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
I'm going to do this.
There's times that there's 15 people at last count
working behind the scenes, which just blows my mind.
And I'm just so grateful for that.
And to be honest, I don't feel like a leader.
I've never come on to this project thinking
I'm going to lead a team and we're going to go
and, you know, smash a world record.
It's been about, this is something I'm passionate about.
I want to help people by doing this feat.
And I'm going to push myself.
I'm going to put it out there.
And then people who that resonates with
have just come on board and been part of the team.
That's what I love about what we think leadership looks like
in the modern era is you don't have to be an extrovert
or you don't have to be loud.
You can do it in your beautiful way,
which is I want to do this.
And people have naturally followed because we,
and I say we, resonate with the story
and we see what's happening to young girls.
And, you know, for someone to go and put yourself
into those conditions, as I said,
is incredible.
You've obviously got a teenage daughter in sport.
I'd love to learn just from you for a moment,
like what's your experience been with having her in sport?
You know, is she still playing sport?
What's the journey you've had with her and the challenges?
Yeah, well, it's sort of a passionate sporting family
and her three brothers are quite passionate,
obsessive with their sport.
And so,
she was very much the same.
And can I say this sort of with pride,
but quite capable at everything she does.
And I always say parenting Sienna is almost
like another category to the three boys.
Like it's, I love it more than anything else,
but she's, you know, so much smarter and more complex.
But yeah, the relationship with her is brilliant.
So for me, it's just that, you know,
making sure you're there,
making sure when she played footy that, you know,
I did ask her when she was playing footy,
I said, would you like me to get involved in coaching?
She said, are you kidding?
That how embarrassing would that be?
And I said, oh, there's not a lot of things I can help me with.
This may be one.
And she said, no chance in the world.
And you know, she had great coaches and then she got into a world of rowing.
And, and I,
I was so passionate about that two year period where they were really taken away
from sport.
I could see the stress that was causing everything that we'd probably try and do
as a family to have that taken away from you.
I found that incredibly stressful and watching her,
on a screen trying to do a sport,
but really unhappy.
And as a lot of people were,
and I know that we haven't spoken about this public or not because for whatever
reason, everyone's moved on,
but I feel lucky she did.
She ended up becoming a really elite rower at school and had some great
experiences.
They were incredible experience to go over to the UK and win the world school
girl championship in rowing.
So I think that's in her,
she wants to study sport management,
I think.
And so I,
but delicate,
isn't it?
Because if,
if you had have gone the other way,
I could see the outcomes could be significantly worse.
So I hope her mother and I've just given her this sort of
base where they see everyone in our house exercises,
you know,
her mum's a yoga teacher and Pilates instructor.
So they probably see it in the house every day.
So I think that's going to be part of her for life.
And I think probably the thing that's going to keep her more healthy than
anything else,
hopefully.
So,
yeah,
I guess it comes back to that,
learning the benefits of sport and learning that,
through the family.
Yeah.
Through parents are role modeling that and through brothers also being involved.
And I think then,
you know,
don't you don't know that how you feel when you don't do it.
Yes.
And so it's easier to sort of,
Hey,
lecture and say,
you should be doing this.
But if you've got the experience of how that makes you feel like you go for a
run or,
you know,
you get that joy of being in a team and it,
you know,
and all the lessons you learn when it doesn't go well,
as you said,
it's a,
but yeah,
she was the one I was worried about in lockdown.
I just thought that that's tough for that,
that bracket.
So we're really grateful that she,
she stuck through and she pushed through the pain.
Like rowing is a painful sport.
I look at it and go,
I don't think I would have enjoyed that,
but they push themselves.
And through that,
you can see that has helped her and will help her in the discipline and so many
other parts of her life.
So has there been periods where either your sons or your daughter have
considered stopping?
Sport or do you think it's been so inherently involved in your family that,
uh,
that hasn't really come up as such?
I think that lockdown period was the one where you're not getting the joy of
being with the team.
You're only getting the sitting in the gym on your own.
That,
that was the closest.
And then I was,
what do you do?
What do you say?
I never experienced that before because if you push too hard and said,
Hey,
go and stick it out,
get on the ergo,
she would have given me some pretty,
pretty quick feedback as she does have that you get out of the way.
Um,
so I felt really helpless.
It's just like,
I hope she stays at it.
I hope she doesn't lose her passion for it.
Hope she,
yeah.
That,
and maybe you're seeing again,
the example of everyone else still sticking at it and training,
but yeah,
you hope whatever level it is recreationally or,
um,
there's a routine that it's part of their life for good with a bit of luck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it comes back to also being valued.
In a sporting environment.
I think,
you know,
you just look at some of the reasons why kids drop out of sport and one is
around that value piece of not necessarily feeling valued.
And I think our Australian sporting infrastructure can be driven to sort of
funnel into a high performance,
sporting pathway.
And so if you're not necessarily on that pathway,
there can be the sense of,
Oh,
I'm just Lucy or Johnny that are paying domestic Saturday afternoon basketball.
Do you know what I mean?
And you've struck on one of the great passions of my life at the moment is
watching exactly that at junior sport and alarmingly for me,
that we've turned it in.
Yeah.
My dad played sport for a living and never once ever said to me anything
negative ever,
or really just left,
you know,
the support was always there,
but he had all the,
all the expertise in the world,
but he would never for the chance of our relationship changing,
be anything apart from just supportive in the,
in the background.
I see so many parents at the under nines think they're going for Olympic gold or a
Guinness world record,
and they can become so hyper competitive through their own.
So,
so,
you know,
little,
you know,
Johnny is just finding his way that we need to nurture a little bit more.
And it's so easy to look after,
cause you can find a role.
It doesn't matter what ability they are,
but because it's the parents who are living through something they didn't achieve
themselves,
creating this hyper competitive yelling at the umpires,
and then we're losing kids everywhere for it.
So I don't often refer back,
but you know,
Rod Campbell,
I spoke with for an hour and a half about this,
about learning life through sport.
People then say,
Oh,
you know,
everyone wins a prize.
And that's what I say to me.
Oh,
it's,
you know,
it's past the parcel.
Now everyone wins.
It's bullshit.
Like the one kid who's going to win a prize,
an Olympic gold isn't diminished by the kid who's still learning.
In fact,
it's the opposite because you put too many in one team together,
which is what everyone does.
And I think I'm going to win the under 12 Yarra League grand final and have a look at how great that's going to be.
And I think,
are you going to go back and have a reunion in 20 years time?
That no one gives a shit.
But we care about how,
what if that's your kid who's maybe teetering and you put your arms around them and you make them happy.
That actually supports the one Chris Judd,
who's the superstar.
He's,
he's actually enhanced by it or she's enhanced by it.
So we need to get that right.
We've got that horribly wrong all around the globe.
Got to get back to teaching life through sport and,
but just,
and you're,
and you still compete.
You still be your best,
still try and win,
but you can do it and look after the other kids.
Yeah.
I think back to my son playing in under eights.
So these kids are six or seven and we,
my husband and I pulled together a basketball team from school.
And just any kid that put his hand up and it was incredible.
There were kids on the team that were obviously quite talented and gifted and could dribble up and down the court.
And there were other kids that virtually could not catch a ball,
like couldn't catch a ball.
And they just had the best time.
And three seasons later,
we were still asking,
does anyone want to play for the following season?
Everyone would put up their hand.
But what was incredible,
incredible about that team.
And you could see it standing back was each player bought something quite different to the team.
So there was obviously a very talented player that was very skilled,
but I remember one particular boy who couldn't catch the ball,
but he was really the carer and the social connected piece of the team.
So if someone fell over or if someone was hurt,
he would be there going,
are you okay?
Can I do anything for you?
Had a heart of gold.
And yeah,
I just think with every team you have,
perhaps the performer,
the leader,
the social connected piece,
you know,
there's people that fill all different roles.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Don,
I first time I coached my oldest and I was reluctant because I was like my dad.
I thought,
you know,
I've played this game and,
and,
you know,
with a profile and it's been nice to stay out of his way so that he doesn't have to have me in his space.
You know,
there's plenty of other,
the dad got sick the week before the first game and rang me and said,
can you fill in as coach of the under 10s?
And so he had to say no.
And,
and then I,
I got the series of phone calls going,
you got to take one little boy out of the team because he can't catch the ball.
And I remember thinking,
that's the craziest thing.
They're not,
I don't know any of the kids.
And I remember saying to Beck,
I said,
I don't know who this kid is yet,
but I promise you,
he's going to have the best year.
I'm going to make sure this kid has the best year.
And he couldn't catch the ball,
but he was a beautiful kid.
And so,
we went to his mom and I said,
look,
I might just play him in one role.
I'm going to teach him how to tackle and how to defend and how to spoil.
And his team,
the kids loved him because he played a role that others didn't want to play.
And he was a great defender and a great spoiler and a great tackle.
That team ended up winning the grand final this year,
but in the grand final,
he laid this tackle that I still remember to this day.
It was out of,
and the joy of the kids,
it wasn't fake because they loved him because you know what?
It was a great role to play.
I'm not saying this is,
I did anything,
the heroic,
but I mean,
his mom was saying like his confidence at school went through the roof and his
friendships.
And then he ended up,
you know,
he was never going to go on and play,
but it didn't need to probably play another six or seven years.
And it was all authentic.
Like the kids,
it was the parents who thought we couldn't win unless we kick this kid out of
the side.
It's like,
what is going on?
Bizarre.
So we,
we use the term success leaves clues in this a lot because I love hearing from
Donna Urquhart,
who's a mom who started pushing the pram.
And,
and now going to have a crack at a,
at a world record on Antarctica to leading sports people or different people
around what the dimensions of great leadership looks like.
And we think it's hard to do anything in the leadership space if you don't
know yourself.
And the idea of self-leadership is where it all starts.
How would you describe that for you?
Self-leadership?
Self-leadership for me is really about being true to myself.
So being me and not trying to be someone else,
you know,
I think it can be very easy to look at great,
great leaders.
And,
and I think that's important to see how they behave and what they value and
what they are striving for.
But what I try not to do is to emulate that.
And instead I step back from that and go,
well,
who am I authentically and who,
what do I value and trying to hold those values true to myself?
Because I think that then attracts people,
who are the right people to the team.
And,
you know,
our team is a team of 15,
but it's essentially a,
a voluntary team coming together to support this world record and,
and to build a not-for-profit organization.
I think someone said to me on this podcast,
everyone else is taken.
You may as well be yourself.
We spend a lot of time trying to be all these things for other people.
It's incredibly tiring.
And the closer we get to our authentic self,
it sounds easy to say it,
but it's,
you know,
not necessarily something a lot of people can do.
And so clearly that is,
it's a great description of self leadership.
The idea of positively impacting people on a daily basis in what we do is
another dimension.
We see a lot that,
you know,
people are really conscious of that.
You're having a huge impact on a whole range of young females in particular,
but on a daily basis,
do you think about that positive impact on people?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I actually asked my team,
um,
in advance of coming on the podcast,
Luke,
just what characteristics they saw in me as a leader.
And one that came out was being particularly positive.
But one thing that I think I really try to do is,
you know,
on one hand,
if an issue comes up,
you know,
it's important to acknowledge that issue,
that that issue is frustrating or disappointing,
or it's not,
you know,
not how we wanted it to work out.
And acknowledging that,
but then moving on to go,
okay,
it wasn't what we want to happen,
but what are the steps we can now take to move through that and to move on to the next step?
And I just think we always have a choice,
don't we?
We always have a choice.
There's,
there's a Y shaped sort of pathway and we can choose to go down the pathway of negativity or unhelpful thoughts,
or we can choose,
choose the alternative.
Yeah.
Brilliantly,
brilliantly said.
Again,
it's a practice though,
isn't it?
To,
to do it.
The mind tends to go to the negative a bit more easily for,
for a lot of us.
It's,
you know,
the vision to break a,
an ultra marathon record is,
is a big one.
And you,
you shared a little bit about quietly doing that on your runs and then starting to,
to step it up,
but to,
to now,
you know,
raising a million and a half dollars,
you've got to do more of this,
you know,
you've got to get the story out there and create and share that vision.
Tell us about how you've gone about that.
Wow.
That's a big question.
Uh,
in terms of creating the vision and,
and I guess spreading the word again,
it's just started from,
you know,
very small steps of just speaking to people within our networks and then those
people speaking to people within their networks.
And yeah,
look,
I think really sharing that message amongst the team.
So,
for me,
I often talk about,
we are attempting a world record and my team say to me,
it's not we Donna,
you're doing it.
It's not a baton.
It's not a baton change halfway through.
We're not coming in at,
at a hundred kilometers and taking the baton.
But I honestly believe that any one of those people could take the baton at any
time.
So we very much approach this as a team.
And so everyone in their particular domains,
whether it be social media,
media,
marketing,
fundraising,
all the different components of our project,
uh,
then spreading the message and,
um,
then really passionate and dedicated in their particular roles to get the
message out.
Yeah.
Incredible.
Uh,
to hear you talk about it.
I want to ask you a bit more about the time in a mile.
We still,
there's a really curious Donna and they use that curiosity constantly to get
better and to grow and develop themselves.
Are you curious?
I'm curious.
Yeah.
Very curious.
And it was really interesting.
Luke,
I was preparing for another interview a few weeks ago and I knew that one of
the lead questions for the interview was what were you like as a child?
And I in fact reached out to my mom and I said,
mom,
you know,
I can remember bits and pieces,
but can you tell me,
and I didn't preempt it at all.
I just said,
what,
how would you describe me as a child?
And she said,
look,
Donna,
you're a team player and various other things.
But then she said,
you were willing to give things a go and you are looking to find out more and be on that sort of cutting edge.
And look,
I look,
that's why I got into research because I wanted to find out new information,
be on that cutting edge,
learn more about humans that could then,
I guess,
help people,
you know,
help people going forwards.
Brilliant answer.
And communicating with clarity is another dimension,
you know,
we see.
And it's interesting is,
and I get the feeling you're going to be more comfortable minus 40,
800 Ks in than potentially on the speaking circuit afterwards as,
as an,
as an introvert,
but you've had to,
and you're communicating with great clarity and your message is getting across and your stories resonating with all of us.
We want to hear more about it.
How have you thought about that communication part of it?
Yeah,
look,
within the team,
I'm very much,
I hold highly that the team communicates freely and that I'm available to speak to the team.
Like everyone is looking after their particular domains,
but I'm very aware that sometimes I can be the stopping block if they're waiting for something for me to get back to them about.
So we very much have an understanding that there's that freedom of communication,
but their communication is equally important.
And I think it's equally as important as mine.
You know,
if there's an issue,
we both talk about it.
We pull our ideas together.
And to a certain extent,
you know,
if it's about media or if it's about social media,
they have the expertise.
And so I really like to hand it over to them in terms of their expertise going forwards.
In terms of communication,
in terms of the message of,
of getting that out.
Look,
that's,
that's a work in progress.
As I said to you,
you know,
it's not something that comes naturally for me.
I've been a scientist where it's publish or perish.
So it's about being behind your computer and really generating medical publications that are published in journals.
So I don't spend a lot of time speaking about what I'm doing necessarily.
We obviously have scientific conferences,
but very keen to learn in that space.
I'm actually,
as I'm getting used to it,
starting,
to enjoy it more and more and look,
if I can have an impact through delivering my message,
then that's really special to me.
And I feel like,
you know,
we're essentially meeting our outcomes and having an impact.
Publish or perish.
That's a good line.
And I think it's what I love when you take on something like this,
it's challenging you in ways that for whatever we do,
isn't it?
You're now finding a set of skills that you need to have,
potentially before,
but yeah,
you're incredibly good at it very early and getting your story across really well.
You mentioned the collaboration,
isn't it?
It's brilliant for again,
someone who had this idea and now you've got 15 people pro bono donating their time to support you.
And I love the humility.
It's we,
it's not I out there on the ice in Antarctica.
How important is collaboration been?
I wouldn't have been able to do this without the collaboration.
Full stop.
Yeah.
Look,
every person has had such an integral input into this whole project.
You know,
I think of just the beginning where it started in covert in 2021 and I was listening to an adventure podcast and Eric Phillips who was being interviewed,
who's a polar Explorer has decades of experience in polar regions was talking about his experiences.
I was just captivated by that.
And he was Pat farmer's guide.
Pat farmer.
He currently has the world record.
And I reached out to Eric and I said to him,
look,
would you be available to chat?
And we jumped on a call and I explained to him what I would like to do.
And he said,
Donna.
Yeah.
No,
that's not possible.
Which was a hurdle for you to jump Donna.
Yeah.
And he just said,
look,
with the incredible expense involved with having a vehicle in Antarctica and petrol,
it's just it's just mind blowing the expense associated with that because you can't just go and run in the in Antarctica on the snow.
You just fall through the snow.
So you need a vehicle to pack that down.
But Eric has been an incredible support.
He opened a window to that and said,
but what you could do.
And then that led to essentially our project opening up and developing.
And that's just one example of someone that's had such a crucial.
Yeah.
Crucial aspect or component to this project.
When he said,
no,
do that rock your back and think I'm in trouble here or we're aware of some of how big it was or did that sort of open your mind even more?
Look,
I was really aware of how audacious it was to begin with.
And he was one of the first people I reached out to.
So when he said,
no,
I was like,
oh,
maybe it's not possible.
But very quickly,
he then came in with hope and the possibility that there was an alternative to that.
Who has been the greatest leader in your life?
My mum.
She has been the greatest role model.
And I've only just realised that recently,
Luke,
just over the last sort of five to 10 years,
having more conversations with her.
Now being a mum,
I've learnt just what she has taught me.
I think when you're younger,
you don't necessarily realise,
there's that,
you know,
what you learn from your parents and how that sort of washes over you.
But just stories she's told me,
I've really thought,
yes,
that part of me that is prepared to step out and have a go.
And that curiosity to be on that cutting edge and find out new information that has really come from her.
Because she tells me about how she had my brother and I,
and she was in her thirties.
She hadn't particularly had the support to do well at school.
And,
you know,
you can imagine back in that day for a mother with two young children to then go to university,
do a psychology degree and become a psychology teacher.
It was quite a unique step for her.
And I know she's talked about people around her,
her neighbours,
her friends,
really raising eyebrows about that.
And it wasn't the thing to do.
It wasn't the thing to do as a mother back then.
So I think that's just one example of the example she's set that I've then,
that's washed over me and helped me then step forward into areas that are quite unique,
like running in Antarctica,
1300 kilometres.
I think that's given me the courage to do that.
And she has been incredibly supportive all the way through.
She has had concerns.
We have talked about it.
She actually did say to me at one point very early on when she didn't know really the intricacies of what I was doing.
She did say to me,
do you know,
Donna,
if something's to happen to you,
that could have quite a significant impact on your husband and your son.
And I think the word destroy was in there mixed in.
I can't remember the exact words,
but,
yeah,
she was quite concerned to begin with.
And as her daughter,
I didn't quite understand that.
Like I found that really hard.
I was like,
where's that full support?
I knew it was coming from a place of love and concern.
But now as a mother,
I know exactly where that comes from.
Because if my son told me he was doing that,
it would be a different story.
But in fact,
I have spoken to my team about that.
And they have explained how pivotal that comment has been for them,
how that's really driven them to tick off all the risks
and be really honed in on the incredible dangers
that we can face when we're in Antarctica.
Yeah,
incredible.
In the spirit of collaboration,
and we love that in the world,
that we're in connecting different leaders around the globe.
And as a research scientist,
as an ultramarathon runner,
or a mum,
have you thought of a particular collaboration in any of your passions that
you think I'd love to connect with that person to collaborate with?
Is there a name that springs to mind?
Oh gosh,
you've caught me off the hop there,
Luke.
Collaboration.
Oh,
Luke Darcy.
She's just set the bar low there.
I wasn't expecting that answer,
Don.
I'd love to jump on the team.
Can I get a late ticket over to Antarctica?
I'm not sure what my skillset would be,
Donna,
but I'd,
uh,
Oh,
there's still a support crew position available,
Luke.
I've got no skills at all,
apart from a passion for seeing you do it.
It's,
uh,
it's incredible.
Look,
I,
I'm,
I've certainly followed your podcast and listened to all the incredible guests you've had.
And yeah,
hats off to you.
I've learned a lot about leadership through that podcast.
And yeah,
when I got the invite to come on,
that was certainly a collaboration.
That was one that I wasn't expecting.
Very kind of you to say that.
And I've learned a lot today.
I just love it.
I love,
uh,
as a father of a teenage daughter,
still,
I know how important it is that,
you know,
we show great examples and someone has spent their life in sport.
The idea that we try and keep more of our kids,
boys and girls in sport more often,
I'm alarmed at how often they're dropping out more than ever.
And we know there are other passions as well.
They're equally important,
but yeah,
for you to do,
what you're doing is incredible.
I wish you all the best.
Good luck.
And I'd love to see you on the other side.
Yeah.
Thank you,
Luke.
Appreciate you having me on.
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