it's such an enjoyable role so many uplifting moments can come out through a day through a week
and all the while when the pressure hits and it does hit it's generally external it's that whole
debate on reputation versus character right like if you're going to be a head coach you need to
understand your reputation is going to get a hiding at some point your reputation is what
other people think of you but your character and what you're doing the people know you at some
point in time you have to be able to front absorb pressure on behalf of your organization your
players and as uncomfortable as that may be you still have to sit in that space for sometimes
extended periods and and stay the course represent your club understand the direction you're heading
don't flinch and sit in that space now is it uncomfortable yeah sure it is but it's also
possible when you think about how how much you do have going in your favor craig fitzgibbon is the
current coach of the canala sharks he's humble he's self-aware and constantly acquiring knowledge
to continue mastering the art of coaching
really enjoyed this conversation as i'm sure you're going to as well
he talks a lot about his philosophy of staying the course and having discipline when you've got a
vision you might alter it slightly but really the success in life comes down to being able to have
discipline and stay the course he explains why he's never followed the advice to sleep on it
when trying to solve a problem you want to listen in and hear exactly why that's important to him
he's also acutely aware of the power of slowing down reflecting on what he's grateful for and
the excellent relationships that he's part of
when life gets stressful that's his go-to to make sure he keeps himself on track you also hear craig
fitzgibbon talk about the creative activities that he surprises his players with as he strives to find
that balance of keeping hard happy and that you need to have a fun environment if you want people
to be successful he also breaks down the three really basic principles of how he wants his
players to act how they prepare each week and then ultimately the style in which they play it's
really clear and you can understand
why Craig Fitzgibbon has been so successful
in everything that he set his mind to.
We are really grateful and privileged
to have Craig Fitzgibbon
as part of our Elita Connect program.
Love you to check it out as well.
Head to elitacollective.com.
We collaborate with groups of five or six people
to come together from different backgrounds
to learn, to share, and to connect.
You don't have to be an NRL legend
or a sporting coach to be part of this program.
We love the diversity,
people from the arts or from industry
or social venture coming together
to collaborate and connect in a unique way.
Huge thanks as always to Jason Nicholas
and his team from Temper.
We know that great athletes like Craig Fitzgibbon
understand that sleep is such an important part
of having a successful and healthy life.
So having a look at a mattress like Temper,
it's a mattress like no other.
A third of your life is spent in bed.
So getting a good night's sleep
is really fundamental to a great life.
Check out Temper.
It'll be a decision that will change your life.
Craig Fitzgibbon is an Australian rugby league legend.
His decorated playing career
spanned more than 300 first grade games.
A Clive Churchill medalist for best on ground
in the Sydney Roosters Premiership in 2002.
Represented New South Wales in state of origin
and played 19 tests for Australia.
He holds the record as the highest point scoring forward
His coaching record is equally brilliant
and integral part of the Sydney Roosters
three premierships in 2013, 18 and 19
as assistant to Trent Robinson
before in April 2021 being announced
as the head coach
of the Cronulla Sharks.
In his first full year as head coach,
he guided the Sharks to a second place finish
with the Sharks quickly extending his contract
Fitz, it's great to see you've had
a remarkable history of success
in one of the most competitive sports in the world.
Can I start with asking you,
what are the traits that you've found within yourself
to achieve that success?
Thanks for the intro too.
It's uncomfortable to listen to,
but always nice to hear it again.
But I think really simple values of hard work
and being fortunate I've been in the game
My father was a coach as well.
So love the game,
understanding and being part of rugby league cultures
and clubs for, again, most of my life.
I think it's, you know,
it's not a really complicated formula.
All the while, as you know,
coaching can get extremely complicated,
but keeping it really simple with hard work values
and I think translating, you know,
the heart of your work in our sport
and the heart of your work as a player,
it's sort of the value shift into coaching as well.
All the while working hard in different ways
and trying to use similar values and lessons
you pick up as a player
and apply them to your coaching.
Fitz, you mentioned your dad, Alan,
who coached the Cronulla Sharks as well.
I understand you were a ball boy as a kid
running around in the Sharks' change rooms.
Is it surreal to you that you're now
the head coach of that organisation?
And do you think you absorbed a little bit
even as a kid about how your dad coached
and do you see some of those traits in you?
Obviously with...
Yeah, I've been an assistant...
I had 20 years at the Roosters,
so I was a long-term assistant,
10 years as an assistant coach
and I was figuring if I was going to head coach
that club or an organisation,
you kind of have to fit and spending...
I sort of had seven years there as a child
and I'd lived in the area for 10 years
while I was playing with the Roosters,
so I was familiar with the demographics,
the area, what the club was about, etc.
But as a young fella,
growing up in and around rugby league,
all my heroes were Sharks players,
so, you know, all those...
you know, stories of their greatness.
They had a successful period for a run there,
all the while falling short of a premiership.
But it wasn't overly nostalgic, the decision,
but it definitely played a part
in the familiarity of the club,
the area and its history more so.
And as for my father's traits,
yeah, I think that he's...
Yeah, so many lessons as leaders now
that you look back on how you were brought up.
Super quiet, very humble.
He's the ultimate observer.
My father, he's frustrating to a point
where so standoffish
and one of the biggest decisions in my life
where I'd seek sort of any kind of advice
or recommendations
and he'd just be observing
and just watching
and making you make your own decisions.
And I can only speak from the players that he did coach
that they hold him in high regard.
So you'd like to think that
some of those attributes have rubbed off,
but all the while,
I've got to keep earning that as well.
Yeah, I'm fascinated by that, Fitzy.
I had a dad that played for the same club,
that I ended up playing for in the AFL
and he sounds eerily similar to your dad
where he was there,
he observed everything,
but he never ever once,
not even once offered an opinion
or got into my space.
And I would ring him,
but it would only be a sounding board.
He would never say,
hey, you should do this.
And I look back and I'm with you,
I thought there's a missed opportunity there.
And I think he had lots of things
he could have passed on,
but I now look at it and I think,
He just allowed me to tread my own path.
Do you see it the same way?
Do you see that's a bit of a gift?
Your dad's just giving you the space
to be what you are?
Yeah, I think so.
I think it was a conscious decision on his part.
you would know this,
obviously you're understanding,
you want that feedback,
you want to make sure
that you're heading in the right direction.
And all it offers was,
am I observing it like he is?
Like, are you looking at this as,
a bit more observant recommendations
rather than push you in a direction.
you're very conscious on his part
for me to grow up
and make decisions for myself
and live and die by those decisions
and also ultimately take responsibility
for whatever decision you make as well.
and super quiet, super humble.
So when I'd see him
and we'd have might have a social gathering
where someone else would be there
and I'd walk up to them and say,
mate, you've just spoken more to my father
than I've managed to get out of him
So I love spending time with him now.
And again, just sitting back,
big picture approach.
I think it was very conscious on his part
and he sort of knew what he was doing there.
it leads to me into the parenting discussion
I spend a lot of time at junior sport
and I see a complete opposite parent
to the one that I had
where they are sitting on the sidelines
screaming at their kids,
desperate for them to succeed.
It feels like it's probably coming from a good place,
but it creates this intensity and this chaos
that just over the top,
you know, in junior sport.
do you see that yourself now in this era
that perhaps we've got a generation of parents
when you've had a dad
that's really just been at the other end of the scale?
Yeah, it's an interesting debate,
Like there's probably many successful athletes
or players in multiple sports
that have had overbearing parents
and still been managing to succeed
or have high level careers.
And then there's the other end of the spectrum
where maybe the standoffish parents
where they've allowed
their kids to grow
their own decision-making processes
and flourish in that sort of environment as well.
But yeah, you're kind of,
the generational swing too, right?
Like the way our parents probably raised us
and the way parents are raising
and we're raising our kids now
are probably entirely different.
You kind of wonder what's the best avenue there,
but there's definitely a level of intensity
and I think probably at a junior level
more so than by the time we get up.
I think parents at any level
want their kids to succeed, right?
And I think sometimes
that they're only ever trying to do the best thing
to get the best out of them,
but how they go about it,
sometimes it can,
it's an interesting debate, that one,
but you think that there's a balance
on how much they need
and how much they receive
and how much is beneficial, I think.
There's a great book called Range that I read
and it sort of debunks the 10,000 hour rule.
When Tiger Woods started
becoming a billionaire athlete,
it felt like everyone was going to be
and try and put a golf club
in their kid's hand
when they were six months old
and that was the way to have success with your kids
and this author debunks the theory
and said Roger Federer's mum was a tennis coach
but wouldn't let him play until he was 12
because he was such a bad sport.
He'd throw his racket.
She said, well, until you learn to grow up,
I'm not hitting the ball back to you
and he went and played all these other sports,
badminton and table tennis and soccer
and then when he came back,
everyone was like,
oh, you're way too late to you
to be any good at tennis,
but maybe in the long term,
he was a bit healthier,
but it's an interesting conversation
that didn't plan to go there.
I saw in your first answer, Fitzy,
the humbleness and the humility around
if you work hard,
you're going to be successful.
In sport, you are aligned on a united board
and a capable group of assistant coaches
and a strong captain.
Are you a subscriber to that,
to achieve team success, Fitzy,
along with the hard work?
You need all those pieces of the jigsaw puzzle as well?
Yeah, I think so.
I think, look, there's no shortcuts to success
and I think a collaboration,
if that's the word you want to use,
but a united front on,
we're all heading in the same direction
and we're all given the best account of ourselves
to head that way.
All the while, there's times to refresh,
times to have time off to freshen up.
Sometimes the best,
the moments of clarity come in having a rest
and having a freshen up
or doing something outside the realms of just work.
I think fundamentally,
if everyone in the organisation
is heading in the same direction
and they're all, again, working hard at whatever their role,
roles, responsibilities may be in achieving that,
I think it's like a common thread there.
It makes the environment, I think, happier to go to.
Each day you walk in, you look,
I know, how do you term success?
I don't think we've achieved it ultimately yet.
Obviously, premierships seem to be
and are always the marker for the ultimate success,
but you're filled with pride when you walk in
watching your staff, you know,
not only just fill in their roles and responsibilities,
like everyone has a job title where, you know,
assistant coach, for example,
you've got X, Y, Z that they've got to tick off during the day,
but if they're only ever walking in the door
thinking about just being an assistant coach,
well, where's the growth?
Where are they going to learn to, you know,
take a chance and grow their own coaching in a separate way?
And when you walk into, you know, a building each day
and there's a whole host of staff doing the same thing
and thinking about not just having a job title
but shifting what that job title may be
by trying to grow, get better,
it's challenging to you
because you know that you can't just sit in a comfortable space
and just be routine-like.
We're all pushing each other
and I feel like it makes them enjoyable
in a normal environment
and, yeah, ultimately you'd love the success of a premiership
to be able to say, hey, that worked,
but it's still a stimulating environment
and a positive one to go and work to.
Fitzy, champion players like you,
and I know the humility is going to be hard for you to listen to that,
but your career, you know,
puts you in the all-time greats of your sport.
Don't always make great coaches
because, you know, you probably found the game easier
than a lot of others.
Do you find that you've got to work harder with those players
that maybe have to work a lot harder
to be as good as you were as a coach?
Well, I think back about that now, Luke,
and, you know, I don't think I was a great player.
I was potentially just in great teams.
So as probably a perfect example of how a great team
will, you know, beat a team of great players
and I think I would have been incredibly frustrating
for my coaches, I think,
because I always felt like I had the ability before a game
to sit back and analyse what the coaches wanted us to do
and understand the game
and understand the players
and the plan, the strategy,
the element of putting it all together.
But once I took the field,
I'd totally lose myself to the contest
and just want to just keep going
and get out there and work as hard as I could.
So I'm sure I frustrated some of my coaches in that regard,
but ultimately I still have a good relationship,
so it mustn't have been too difficult for them.
But I think, now, I do understand what you're saying there.
I think that's the really elite, elite guys of our sport
or in particular sports where I think,
and I've had to adjust to this a little bit,
but as a coach, you need to understand as quickly as possible
not everyone thinks like you.
All the while, you want to impart some values,
some behaviours, some characteristics in your team.
At the end of the day, they think different to you.
So potentially some of the greatest players you've ever seen
might struggle to understand their team or their players
or what they're trying to put across.
They can't keep up with them because they're seeing it quicker.
They're seeing it ahead of time.
They might be looking at it through a different lens.
So I think it's about,
trying to get a communal thought process
and putting it all together out there
as opposed to trying to keep up with someone.
I see a lot of people listening to this podcast
will be maybe running their own business
or wanting to improve their own teams
or just create a better environment in their day-to-day.
What do you think people can learn from elite sport
and the discipline that is required in your job?
Probably reverse engineering the question
to say the discipline part of whatever you're doing
would be first and foremost, I would have thought.
Irrespective of job or employment,
or whatever it is you're trying to achieve,
I think the discipline to have a plan first and foremost,
but to execute and honour the plan.
I think it's the most successful people
in whatever industry you're talking about.
I think once they have a vision or a plan
and then go about that with,
whether it's day-to-day or week-to-week
or long-term, short-term strategies, goals,
but the discipline to stick at it, go after it.
I think that's the most important part to it.
And yeah, that wavers from time to time.
And particularly, you get in the grind
and you've got to find ways to stimulate, freshen up,
keep finding new ways, but all the while stay the course.
It's not about jumping from one thing to another to another.
It's not necessarily discipline heading in the right direction,
but probably having a philosophy ultimately
that guides you towards it
and then the discipline to see it through, I think.
It's a brilliant answer, isn't it?
That often self-doubt creeps in even for the most successful people
and you're not human if at times you don't feel as though
maybe you haven't got it all.
Is that something you can relate to?
I mean, I read out the CV at the start.
You played in grand finals almost immediately you debuted
and every time you've been in a coaching environment,
you've had instant success and consistent success,
but is the self-doubt always something you've got to deal with?
I actually listened to one of your podcasts with George Carl
and his son, Kobe, was actually on my Leader Connect group.
But one thing I thought he nailed was as a coach,
you've got to put your black hat on from time to time
and almost rehearse adversity.
You know the advice where someone might recommend,
I think you should sleep on it?
I think that's the worst piece of advice of all time
because right in the middle of the night,
when you're in the middle of the night sleeping or thinking about,
that's where all the fears and anxieties hit.
And then once you actually get up and approach the day,
it's never as bad as you think it's going to be.
You can actually walk through it a little bit easier.
But you do have to rehearse adversity from time to time.
But ultimately, having that philosophy or a vision and a plan
and absolute belief that you...
You want to follow it through.
You want to see it through.
And it's going to get challenged.
You're going to have to debate it, possibly change it,
possibly adjust it.
But sticking at it's the key, I think, in the face of adversity
more so than when things are going well.
You mentioned a Leader Connect and George Carl,
his son Kobe and your group from the Philadelphia 76ers
along with Dean Cox, an AFL legend,
one of the best ruckman the game's ever seen,
now a coach at the Sydney Swans.
Dean Vickerman's had enormous success as an NBL coach
with the Melbourne United.
Linda Stowell's an Olympic gold medal winner
who also has got an amazing reputation at the Institute of Sport
for her work coaching a number of different teams
in that environment.
Fitz, it's been a great privilege to have you in that world.
I know that the group have learned an enormous amount from you.
What have you taken from the Leader Connect program?
Yeah, I think you initially, when we first talked about joining,
the first thing that comes to your mind is how am I going to fit this in?
How's this going to work?
What's it going to be?
There's more curiosity of how this is going to go.
I know Trent Robinson and Matty King were on one for a long period of time
and when the opportunity came up, I went head first into it
and it's been more beneficial than I would have thought.
I think they're all different lenses that you're looking through,
similar issues, similar coaching challenges,
but to hear it from a different lens and little,
you get a nugget, something of gold every time we have a chat
and sometimes not long enough, sometimes you just want to keep talking
and sometimes you just want to keep talking.
Sometimes you just want to keep talking.
Sometimes you just want to keep talking.
But I've got to say they're all individually been terrific
and I'm really looking forward to extending it and growing that more.
And Fitz, we find that you mentioned an hour and 15 a session
and keep that discipline because everyone's got these super chaotically busy worlds
and you're trying to condense that learning.
But a lot of people reflect that it's a rare time to be able
to just have a group of people who haven't got a bias either way.
They're not on your board or they're not in your coaching group
and that chance to even reflect your own thoughts
and thoughts back sometimes, Fitzy, is valuable.
Have you found a bit of that?
Yeah, you're right.
Because they're all from different walks, everyone drops the guard.
Like there's no – you're not trying to protect IP.
You're not worried about what might get out or what.
It's like it's such an open forum of different opinions
and a different way of looking at things.
And I think that's the safety of that environment makes you share,
share at a deeper level.
And, you know, I'd like to think that, you know, I'm sure every other leader,
big connect group has the same experience where it is.
It's the one opportunity you do get where you're not bound by who's listening
or what I should or shouldn't say.
It's just such an open forum that I think it's a great sharing platform.
Yeah, it's brilliant to have your reflections on it.
We really appreciate it.
It's a high-pressure, highly scrutinised environment being a head coach
of an NRL team or an Australian sporting coach at an elite level.
And we've seen that have a big negative effect on a lot of people
that the stress of that.
That has caused – it's probably an untold story for me in lots of ways.
It's a well-paid job, but it comes with a lot of layers.
How do you cope with that, Fitzy?
What do you do day-to-day to keep you well and deal with that level of intensity?
Oh, you've got to have – we've got a couple of outlets,
a couple of active hobbies which, you know, you can get into
and get a mind off things, going surfing or it's time with family,
whatever you may see as the release for you to get away from that constant thought
because it is constant.
We're not going to lie and suggest that you can easily turn it off or on,
but if I really slow down and understand how grateful I am to be in the position,
first and foremost, slow down, take time to reflect on, you know,
how things are going.
Are they trending in a direction you want them to head?
And the relationship building of everyone you work with, the players, the staff,
the board, like we're – it's such an enjoyable role and so much –
so many uplifting moments.
It can come out through a day, through a week,
and all the while when the pressure hits and it does hit, it's generally external.
It's generally – it's that whole debate on reputation versus character, right?
Like if you're going to be a head coach, you need to understand your reputation
is going to get a holding at some point.
Now, if you can handle – your reputation is what other people think of you,
but your character and what you're doing, the people know you.
They're spending time with you, so just trying to focus on the internal,
on the most important people.
I think it's – it's –
It's definitely manageable, but there's times where you do have to pay attention
You're a representation of your club, so at some point in time,
you have to be able to front, absorb pressure on behalf of your organisation,
your players, and as uncomfortable as that may be,
you still have to sit in that space for sometimes extended periods
and stay the course.
Represent your club, understand the direction you're heading,
don't flinch, and sit in that space.
Now, is it uncomfortable?
Yeah, sure it is, but it's also possible when you think about
how much you do have going in your favour.
It's a brilliant way to describe it, isn't it?
Reputation versus character, and you can control the character part
and how you react and how the internal world understands you,
and they're the really key people in your life, aren't you?
But if you buy into some of the crazy narratives that goes on,
we want to sack coaches every other week depending on a win or a loss,
but it's a brilliant way to compartmentalise it,
and I appreciate you sharing that.
We feel like we're in the golden chair, Fitzy,
in the world of a leader and what these dimensions
of great leadership looks like, and I'm looking forward
to getting your thoughts on this.
And starting with self-leadership, you don't achieve what you've achieved
in your life without really understanding yourself
and your own self-leadership.
What does that mean to you?
Yeah, absolutely.
It probably goes back to the discipline point there, Luke.
I think I've had to ultimately to be successful in sport, again,
the discipline, but it's leaders go first, right?
So an understanding that your staff, your players,
are going to be looking at what, how you carry yourself,
are you disciplined in either role, life, consistency of behaviours.
I think the simplest way to self-lead is fundamentally for me,
I hate letting people down.
So, you know, if I have that in the back of my mind,
it always drives me to make sure I'm staying the course
and doing the right things yourself.
And discipline's hard work, but it's also incredibly rewarding.
Like, you know, if you just, you set yourself a plan and you're following it,
there's a self-reward and a self-leadership that kind of keeps you going.
It's a bit like the simplest analogy would be jumping in the ice bath, right?
No one wants to get in the water.
No one wants to get in the ice bath.
No one really wants to get through in there.
I'll tell you what, you feel better after doing it
because you had the discipline to get into doing it.
So it's probably the quickest snapshot I can say of consistency
of being disciplined in the way you are as a person,
but the way you're actioning, you know, those things.
It's funny you say that, Fitz.
I had the great privilege of spending a few hours one-on-one
with the Iceman Wim Hof.
Four or five years ago and created this ice bath.
And as we're getting in, he said, you know, I love the warm.
You know, I don't like the cold.
He said, the cold's just here as a reminder to stay present,
but I'd rather be down the beach.
It's a warm day today and it's hot.
Get me into the warm any day.
But I just feel the power was what he was saying
from being present in the cold.
And yeah, it was a fascinating experience to see him close up.
He had a presence about him that's hard to describe.
You know, he's put the ice baths on the map, that man.
Impacting people positively.
Positively every day.
I suppose you turn up in an environment where you are the temperature
of the room effectively for everyone in your organisation,
the players, your staff.
How do you go about positively impacting them every day?
Yeah, I think generational coaching sort of from ultimately
when I started playing to where I'm now, like the shift in energy,
you know, like it used to be a one-size-fits-all,
like players always spoke a certain way, behaved a certain way,
acted a certain way.
And if you weren't like that, you kind of didn't fit in
You know, so to where we are now and players are learning
to communicate via 20-second and 30-second clips on a phone
and that's sort of more stimulating for them.
So I think to have a positive impact, you've got to understand
that their environment's different to the one we come up in.
So we're trying to have a lot of fun, to be honest.
We're always coming up with, you know, we have little different
presentations and video clips and ping-pong tournaments, basketball,
whatever we can get going and have a little bit of fun
to set the intention of the day and get everyone looking forward
Sometimes we surprise them with things.
Other times we keep it pretty routine-like.
But the balance of making hard happy as well because we want
Our sport requires that level of intensity in our preparation
that you need to be ready for.
And I feel like if the environment's too heavy and it's not positive
and it's not impacting the people in it, it's really hard to ask them
to work hard and get the best out of themselves.
So if they can get in there and feel so comfortable in their own skin
that under pressure and out there, they're happy to work as hard
You can get the best out of them out there.
So we try and have a positive impact by having fun as well as understanding
that it's time to work, it's time to work.
It's a great message.
If you can make hard happy and have your fun along the way,
then naturally you're going to perform better, isn't it?
I think the earnest environments where it was just full of criticism
all the time, no wonder a lot of people didn't cope with it, as you said.
And there wasn't any room outside of that in previous generations.
It's sophisticated the way you're thinking about that.
You mentioned a lot about having a vision.
And the discipline to stick to it.
Can you tell us a bit about how you go about creating that vision
and sharing it with your team?
It's probably on reflection, probably the best bit of coaching I do.
Just before walking in there, you want to have a high-performing environment.
You want to have a winning culture.
I didn't want to wait until we won a few games to go, right,
we've got a culture, we've got a way about us now.
So we sort of just developed, along with the help of some others,
we sort of set up a philosophy of how we wanted to act,
how we wanted to prepare, and then how we wanted to play.
Like really simple in essence.
And it's kind of been a little bit of a North Star for us,
where we don't vary, win, lose, or draw.
We just want the best account of ourselves.
So it's not like we're jumping week to week and trying to fix things.
It's almost like a really guiding principle.
And I think that having that in the background really helped, Luke,
I didn't probably underestimate it at the time.
But the vision of, okay, I can see what we want to say,
how we want to act.
We represent the Sharks.
We represent the community of the Sharks.
We represent the NRL as a game.
Like poor behavior doesn't wash anymore.
So you want good people.
That's the first and foremost.
And then you want to have a way you prepare.
You can't play a certain way unless you prepare a certain way.
So, okay, how do we want to prepare?
Well, you've got to share that.
This is the way we're going to go about things now.
This is the way we're going to be meticulous in the way we get ready
for a game of footy, the way we get ready for a session,
and then how do we want to play, lay it underneath.
But I think the first two are almost you've got to get them right first
before you're asking them to get the footy right.
Yeah, kind of on reflection.
Give us a consistency in that of the way we're trying to behave.
And listen, there's going to be moments there where you do get challenged
on the behavior and the preparation of players.
I can assure you it's not a well-oiled machine just yet,
but for the most part it's been pretty smooth, yeah.
I love the clarity of that, Fitz.
Without knowing your organization or I can feel walking in, okay,
here's how I need to represent myself as a person in the community.
This is the preparation.
Yeah, I might not always get it right, but at least I know the expectation
and this is our game.
It's our game style and you've always got that to reflect back to.
It's brilliant in its simplicity and I think often the most brilliant things
are simple because you can understand them as easily as you describe.
I hear that you are an incredibly curious person and the feedback is
that you're just always seeking a better way and knowledge,
and we see that a lot with the people I've been lucky enough to speak
to on this podcast, that curiosity is a big thing
and people approach their learning and development through that.
Is that true of you, mate?
Yeah, I reckon it might have cost me from time to time too, Luke.
You know, 10 years I was working at the Roosters, I was like at a minimum
on a good day of travel, it was an hour and a quarter one way,
most times an hour and a half, so I'm like spending close to three hours
in the car every day and I was going, I just want to live where I wanted to live
and that's where I wanted to work.
So I figured if I had so much time, that much time a day,
how can I be productive and curious by nature?
So I just had so much time in my car to listen to podcasts, audio books
and I just loved doing that.
What's happened is as a coach, as a senior, a head coach now,
I'm like, I just feel like I'm letting the boys down
if I'm not learning something, if I'm not getting better myself,
if I'm not sharing and sometimes with curiosity though,
it's got to stay in a direction of where you're heading
because you can get stimulated by something.
I start sharing stuff with the staff and I can see them going,
what's he read here?
What's he listen to here?
We're off on a tangent.
So you kind of got to make sure what I am listening to or reading
comes back to the direction.
The direction we're heading in because I'd be guilty.
It lures me away for sure.
It just is stimulating for me.
I feel like I'm getting better.
I feel like it gives me a sense of, yeah, that's productive work
and sometimes it's just sharing spills out a bit too much, I reckon.
You've got a great way of passing on your message.
Have you thought a lot about your communication in the role that you're in?
Yeah, I think that's the most important part.
To a point, by the time the players get to us,
they'll know the game at a level of understanding that the X's and O's
You do have to have your style, your way of X's and O's
and how you want to play.
But how you deliver messages and how you get points across
is the most important thing for me.
I mean, that's your coaching opportunity.
If you're going to stand in front of a team and a video board
and video clips and let the clips do the talking for you
without being able to tell a story and have a sharing
and have something behind those clips that's going to make it
have more purpose and income, it's almost like the ultimate time
to communicate with your team, right?
Individually, you would speak to your players slightly different
because you kind of get to a point where your profile
and each of your team members, they need to hear information
slightly different.
But in a communal room and language room or the team room,
working hard on communicating clearly, storytelling,
but all the while focusing on how you're going to do your job.
So I think that's the art of coaching and sometimes you kind of feel it
when you haven't nailed it and you feel it when it's gone well too.
And how important has collaboration been for you in your role?
You're foolish to think it's – you do feel like it's very lonely.
At the end of the day, the decision rests with you.
You've got to make a call for a whole host of things on what you want
to do that day, training, selections, contractual agreement.
There's a lot of decision-making where at the end of the day
you've got to make a call.
So what collaboration does for you is empowering the staff
and I'm still – I'm learning.
From the assistant coaches, from the rest of the staff,
like having a collaborative approach I think is – it keeps the mind open
It also empowers them to share more, empowers you to grow more
and they're challenging.
You know, it's really – and the collaboration of the crew
we've got at Alita.
Some of the stuff we've brought out of some Alita sessions
and being able to implement has been really important as well.
Some parts resonate exactly with where you're at
and what situation you're in.
So, yeah, I think it's huge.
It's a team sport.
It's a team sport too, right?
So not collaborating doesn't make sense either.
And, Fitz, I love the language that you use is that, you know,
you're learning from your assistants as much as they're learning from you
and learning from your playing group and that opportunity.
But that doesn't happen if you don't create an environment
where people feel like it is collaborative.
So it's obviously a great credit to how you approach your coaching.
Who's been the greatest leader in your life?
It'd be hard to not say my parents.
It's an environment I grew up in.
And basic, simple, like, values, right?
Like behavioural traits, values, consistency of life and life into employment, et cetera.
But I couldn't ignore the influence that they've had on my life, I don't think.
And, you know, leaders sort of feel a little bit differently about that.
Like, I had 10 years with Trent Robinson, obviously.
So as far as a leader goes in the role that I'm in right now,
he's been probably the most important.
And he allowed me to, like, I'm talking about how the staff,
We share a lot of things.
And we used to talk at a deeper level about what it might or might not take to be a head coach.
So I'd have to thank him for that.
But our staff are leaders in their own right.
So I'm constantly picking up from leaders everywhere.
And you like stuff resonates with you.
But at the end of the day, you've got to lead your way as well.
So I think leadership needs to come back to what do you want to do as a leader?
But you can learn from so many people.
And just got to pick up on mum and dad.
Your immediate thought is to go there.
And you can see those.
Just the traits you talk about, are they the sort of cornerstone you think
when you reflect on who you are, the environment you grew up in?
Yeah, I think so.
I think obviously a stable environment to grow up in, background,
like home filled with love, consistency.
Like life was pretty straightforward.
Like I don't recall a whole heap of obstacles growing up and a simple grounding
and just being a good person.
And a lot of consistency of the people in their lives as well.
You know, like generally you surround yourself.
You're with the same sort of people in your life and just grew up in a happy environment.
So I think I'd have to thank you for that.
It's a great gift, isn't it?
When you actually look back and think I'd had that stable, loving home environment.
It's about as good as you can hope for.
It's nice to hear that.
As you know, in the leader space, we're a bit obsessed with this world of collaboration.
And you played over in England.
You've had depths of experience everywhere.
Is there a name of someone you thought, I'd love to collaborate and learn from that person
with all of your curiosity?
Is there a name that jumps out in any area of passion in your life?
Yeah, because you live in England, actually.
I was sort of a fan of the Premier League prior to, you know, even going over there and playing.
But I marvel at how hard it must be to have a culture of like all a selfless environment
or a team-first culture over there with like the amount of money, the status,
the profile of those players that they must manage, the egos.
Like how they pull all that together.
So, you know, like the Guardiola's or Ange Postacoglu now,
like what he's doing is, that's pretty impressive to have an influence so quickly on Tottenham
Something like that would be amazing to watch how they have all those personality types.
And you're not only talking, as I said before, rugby league used to be a one-size-fits-all.
Now we've got all these different sort of ethnicities, backgrounds, cultures, et cetera.
Like they're getting people from, some can't even speak a common language, you know.
They're getting them from South America and all around Europe.
And then they've got English-born people.
And different levels of like the money's astronomical.
How they manage and balance all that, that'd be, I'd love to be a flaw on the wall
and see how that goes down.
Fitz, it's been a great pleasure spending some time with you.
I know mid-season there's a lot going on and your reputation as a player is off the charts
and your reputation as a person is the equivalent of that.
And as I said, we're really privileged to be able to connect with you in the leader world
and wish you all the best of success.
I'm sure there's plenty more to come.
And thanks again for sharing some of your wisdom today.
We appreciate it.
Thanks for having me, mate.
Thanks for listening to another episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast.
Huge thanks as always to our great friends at Temper.
And we encourage you to check out our Leader Connect program.
New episodes are out every Wednesday morning at 6 a.m.