I hope you enjoy this upcoming episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast with Matt LaFleur.
Matt's record-breaking success as the coach of the Green Bay Packers is a unique story,
and we feel extremely grateful and fortunate to have Matt LaFleur as part of our Elita Connect
signature program. Matt joins other elite coaches around the world, Mikel Arteta from Arsenal,
Eddie Jones, the current coach of Australian rugby, George Carl, an NBA Hall of Fame coach,
and Mike Dunlap from the Walkie Bucks in our bespoke facilitated leadership forums.
Creating a world of collaboration is what we are really passionate about in the work we do
at Elita, a business co-founded with my great friend Matt Wadowicz, and our Elita Connect
signature program, as I said, brings together diverse groups of people to learn, to connect,
and to collaborate. You don't have to be the coach of the Green Bay Packers, Matt LaFleur,
to enjoy this experience. If you want to book a discovery call and find out more about it,
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Matt LaFleur is the head coach of the Green Bay Packers in the NFL. His 2019 rookie year saw Matt
achieve a 13-win, three-loss record, make the playoffs, and win the NFC North division, a record
for a rookie Green Bay coach. 26 wins, six loss achievement after two completed seasons is the
second best start ever for a coach in NFL history. Matt's team, the Green Bay Packers,
hold a unique place in the psyche of Americans as the only publicly owned, non-profit professional
team in the United States. They are also the most successful franchise in National Football League
history, with 13 NFL championship wins. It is without question one of the most high-profile,
publicly scrutinized, demanding positions in world sport. And at just 43 years of age,
Matt LaFleur is building a reputation as an outstanding leader in every sense of the word.
Matt, can I start with the history of the Green Bay Packers?
And what they mean to your community?
Well, people's Sundays are determined by Green Bay winning or losing.
And Matt, I mentioned in the intro that it's the only not-for-profit, member-owned
franchise in U.S. sport. There's 500,000-plus shareholders, I understand, of Green Bay. And
you mentioned your stadium. North Wisconsin has got a population around about 100,000 people,
and that's the seat of the stadium. If you want to get on the wait list, it might be 150 years
to actually get a seat, but people still join the wait list. It's an incredible working-class
background of a city. It's sort of defied logic in lots of ways, hasn't it, to be as successful
as it is. Is that a fair call? Yeah, it's really a fascinating story, just from the foundation of
it and surviving some tough times and getting bailed out by the Chicago Bears twice. Ironically
enough, one of our rivals.
No, it's an unbelievable franchise. Certainly an honor to work for the Green Bay Packers. And
everywhere I go, I always meet an owner. Somebody always wants to tell me that they're an owner of
the team. And so I had to buy my own share so I could become an owner as well. I got tired of
hearing it. That's a brilliant story. And you read about Green Bay and the team you coach being
that reflection of the community and that sense of respect Green Bay
has for the game, but also respect for history. And when you're coaching the team, when clearly
winning is a huge part of it, but do you have that community in mind when you are the head
coach of the Green Bay Packers? Oh, absolutely. You can't go anywhere around here and you
constantly get reminded. So everybody is all in every year. They expect a Super Bowl. And
you know, quite honestly, it's great to work for a franchise. It's great to work for a franchise.
It's great to work for a franchise. It's great to work for a franchise. It's great to work for a
franchise where that is the expectation. And with that, I mean, obviously comes a lot of hard
work and got to have great people around you, not only our players, but our coaches and really
everybody involved in our football operation. But no, it truly is a blessing to be part of
this organization. I want to ask you about your own history at a really successful college football
career. Initially started as a wide receiver, Western Michigan, then you transfer as a
quarterback to Signal Valley State. And you finished with record numbers in the quarterback
role in every area. And you end up, I think recently you were inducted into the Cardinal
Athletic Hall of Fame. You don't go on and play professionally, but do you ever have a sense that
you've got a better understanding of the challenges of athletic sport coming through as a player?
Did that shape you as a coach? Oh, absolutely. I think every experience that you go through and
kind of molds the person.
You are. So both my parents were coaches. My mom was probably the best coach. I always joke with
everybody. She was probably the best coach in our family. She was a cheerleading coach and a track
coach for the high school, for our local high school. My dad coached college football at Central
Michigan for his entire career and then our entire collegiate career. Then he got out and
led our high school program. And my brother's a coach.
Now, and he's, he's with the LA Rams. My grandfather was a high school football coach. So we come from a
long line of coaches. And, um, but yeah, I would say that your playing career, who you've worked
with, who you've been around, a lot of us are a product of our environment. And there's a lot of
great lessons every step along the way, both good and bad. And, um, but I've been really lucky to
have been around some of them. And I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's
amazing coaches. And I do give my parents the most credit for just instilling, I would say the
values that we try to live by within the Green Bay Packer organization as well. And so, um, yeah,
it's just, it is all about the quality of people. And that's one thing I do value is, is just,
you try to get the best people along the way. And, you know, our game is just filled with adversity
each and every week.
and every day and we battled through quite quite a bit of adversity for us this last year um with
the fact that our first three years we were pretty successful in the regular season we didn't quite
get it done um and then this year we i mean shoot we were we finished with a losing record and uh
quite honestly it was it was they could have gone really south and we were able to battle back and
and put ourself in position to make the playoffs in the final week of the season and
unfortunately didn't get it done but if we don't have those people within our organization from
the coaches to the players just everybody pushing in the same direction we wouldn't even gotten to
that point i don't want to go back a little bit on the on the family uh history of of coaching and uh
i have heard you say before i think your mom coached cheerleading and athletics as well and
right throughout the histories you said your younger brother
coaching offense at a at the nfl level um was that you know always in your mind that
that you were going to to follow that family path you know i played sport with guys that
even when they're playing they always felt like they were going to be
a great coach was that was that in your mind yeah i think from uh the time i started playing
at you know whether it was football or basketball or running track um you know i've got an education
background and i didn't know quite which path i was going to take i think for a little while i
thought i was going to be a high school teacher and coach and um fortunately i didn't go down that
road and uh got lucky along the way met some great people and i think that's kind of where it it all
starts with the people that i've been associated with and have been again fortunate enough to be
able to learn from and you know this world of football ant basketball i believe it's always the
world you a lot of it is based on your relationships and um in terms of the opportunities that you may
may get and now it's up to you when you get in those positions uh you got to live up to it so
um i've met one of my best friends robert sala one of them we were and he's the head coach of
the new york jets we were gas together at central michigan university and um we he went on and was
able to get his foot in the door in the nfl level and i kept on uh or he kept on calling me and
telling me hey you got to go to the nfl combine you got to go to the nfl combine so finally i
i took him up on that offer i was in the meantime i was a coach at the division two level
which is where i played i played d2 ball uh you mentioned at saginaw valley state university and
um but was able to meet some people at the combine and sure enough a job
opened up and robert went and pounded the table for me to to gary kubiak and you know fortunately
i i got an opportunity to meet kube at the nfl combine and they gave me an opportunity and i'll
never forget um packing up my car and like literally one day and driving by myself to
houston texas and uh it was about a 16 hour car ride i slept about halfway in the car
we were just married for one year at the time and uh she she stayed back she had a job and
um eventually she moved with me but um you know it's just it's been a it's been an incredible
adventure uh incredible journey and um like i said just met a lot of great people along the way
about you and uh and robert were roommates at college when you literally you know shared a
bedroom yeah that's it's you know i'd have two nfl head coaches you know currently uh applying
at the at the top level do you look back and think wow you know who would have thought that
that path and and it's a great story isn't it friendship you know people see something in you
and as you said you know bang the table for you that must be something as you said you never forget
yeah absolutely and we're we are as close today as we were then and got a lot of good stories
together some that are probably not suitable for this podcast but um you know it was no he's been
one of the guys that
i've leaned on and you got to have those type of people in your life because you're going to
surely encounter some things that uh you've never encountered before especially sitting in this
seat i would say and it's important to have people that you can kind of bounce ideas with that
know what you're going through um and so he's he's one of those guys for me and uh he's he's
like a brother to me i talk to him almost every day and uh just you know he's been a great friend
you know a great role model for myself
matt you put you talk about packing up the car it's a 16 hour drive you have a sleep on the way
and that that starts a 16 year apprenticeship effectively to get to to the green bay packers
and you know looking at the history that was tennessee you went to la you went to
atlanta noted dame washington you you traveled all around the u.s to to better yourself and
i'm sure as those experiences unfolded as you mentioned at the start that's where
you know life is uh is
in play for all of us isn't it's where you learn and the people you associate with but
you get into the head job can you talk about you know how that had shaped you and what those values
and uh were like when you stepped into the role as a senior head coach at green bay from all that
16 years of experience yeah i think um like i said it was an interesting journey and a lot of
sacrifices made along the way and thank god for my wife um the matter of fact when i when i met her
we kind of joke about this now but i always tell
young coaches i said just remember there's two kinds of wives coaches wives and ex-wives so
um and i told her that and you know luckily she stuck with me all along the way and i mean there
was a period of time where we were moving almost every year um and it wasn't by design it wasn't
like i was trying to chase that next opportunity it's just it just kind of happened and i think
when you set yourself up and you're around successful people and you have success where
wherever you are those naturally will happen um i had an opportunity again another one of my
great friends who i spent four years with in with the washington now they're the washington
commanders um sean mcveigh we worked together for four years he gets the head job in la
i was in atlanta at the time we had a lot of success went to the super bowl obviously the
We had a colossal collapse in the Super Bowl, being up 28-3 on the New England Patriots,
and they came back and beat us.
It's something that still haunts me to this day, but it is what it is, and you just got to move on.
But he provided me with an opportunity in L.A. to come as the offensive coordinator.
And, again, we had success in that first year.
And after the season, the Tennessee Titans called up,
and they wanted to interview me for their head job.
And, man, I was not ready for that by any stretch.
And I spent a couple days, got all my material together, and went and interviewed for the job.
And I knew about after five minutes, I was like, there's no way I'm getting this job.
But it was an unbelievable learning experience, just took so much away from it.
And I must have done a good enough job that they called back,
They wanted to hire me as the offensive coordinator, which was my job in L.A.
However, I wasn't the play caller.
And I called Sean up.
And the way our league works is if you're under contract with a club,
they don't have to let you out to go somewhere else.
But I called Sean up, and I just told Sean, I was like, I really don't want to leave,
but I feel like I have to take this opportunity to grow.
Like I said, we were successful in L.A.
It was one of the biggest turnarounds in the NFL that year, going from,
I don't even know how many wins the previous season to 11-win team.
We went to the playoffs.
Unfortunately, got knocked out in the first round.
But I knew we were going to be really good again with the Rams.
And ironically enough, they went to the Super Bowl the next year.
With that, there was going to be more opportunity to potentially interview for head jobs.
And just felt like it was one of those necessary steps that I had to take,
going into a situation where I didn't know Mike Vrabel,
didn't have a whole lot of say-so on all the people we hired.
But, you know, I took a chance.
And luckily for me, although we didn't have as much success in Tennessee,
when Green Bay called, they said,
they saw something in me.
And I think that that was a big reason why I got the job,
is because I took a risk.
And, you know, it was with mixed results, I would say.
But it certainly was an unbelievable learning experience for myself.
We have a saying around here,
you better get comfortable being uncomfortable.
And that's the only way to really grow.
And that's something that I've always tried to challenge myself with.
Put myself out there.
Put myself out there.
Put myself in those situations to get a little uncomfortable.
And I think it's been a great process along the way
and certainly did me well in that situation.
Matt, I read something yesterday.
It was a quote that said,
on the other side of fear is everything you've ever wanted.
And it sounds like you've stepped into that uncomfortable space
and you ask your players to do that regularly.
I want to ask you something about Sean.
But I did want to come back to the family part for a moment.
I love asking this of leaders who achieve great things like you have.
And, you know, you spoke about there's a coach's wife or an ex-wife.
There's two options.
I just wanted to be clear.
The humor translated here into Australia, man.
But, you know, I still think, you know, as a leader on the home front,
you know, you lead a big organization every day.
And clearly the love for your wife and your two boys.
And, you know, it's family time tonight that I'm encroaching on.
How do you lead on the home front?
And does it, you know, your day job cross over in that sense as well?
Well, I try to stay out of the way.
Let my wife lead at home.
Now, I think that is one of the challenges that we all have as coaches.
You know, you're used to being in charge at work.
And it just doesn't work that way when you come home.
You got co-head coaches.
But ultimately, my wife is the head coach.
Of this household and not ashamed to say it.
And, you know, she, she really there's so many sacrifices that families make
and that, that we have to make because I don't think that people truly
understand how demanding our job is our day to day, especially in season.
It gets better in the off season where you feel like a regular person, you know,
it's more of the eight to five, even though we, we, most of us go in there
I am, and we might stay later than that, but the sacrifices that are made during the
season are, are unbelievable because I could go from really Monday to about Saturday without
even seeing my kids.
Now we do a lot of things to try to incorporate family within our, our Packer organization.
We always set up a, a Tuesday evening that is meant for family dinners to, to make sure
that we stay connected with our kids.
You know, I was, my wife and I were talking about it today.
My oldest is 11 years old.
He'll be 12 this, this summer.
My youngest is nine.
Um, you know, it's, it's just crazy how fast these 12 years have gone.
And to think about it, he's going to be out of the house in six years.
So you've got to try to do and make every opportunity to, to have your family be a part of this business, this lifestyle.
Um, you know, when I first moved to green Bay, I want to say my kids.
It's in a six year time had lived in seven different houses.
So wrap your mind around that.
It's it's crazy, but the sacrifices are many and plentiful, but, um, with that comes some
unbelievable opportunities.
I know, like I told you earlier, my dad was a, was a football coach and, um, you know,
there were a lot of times I wouldn't see my dad either.
And, uh, especially during the season, but my mom would make a great effort to get me
And man, I thought that was the coolest experience in the world to, to watch these guys that
And there are so many great lessons in terms of when you, when you go to these practices
and you watch how people work and how much effort they give.
And that's something that I always constantly, uh, pound my in the heads of my kids and although
they never want to hear it, um, so you gotta, but there is truly a balancing act, I would
say from being a coach, uh, and then being a dad or being a husband and, you know, sometimes,
although you might want to say something that you think you, you, you have a coaching point
that maybe your kids, uh, could benefit from.
Sometimes I got to bite my tongue and I've learned it the hard way.
And I know I was a, a stubborn kid growing up and my dad would try to coach me up all
And I would always kind of, all right, dad, whatever, and kind of shoo them away.
But I, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you,
you're a stubborn one, you know?
But, you know, um, and so, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know.
It's, it's such a, it's just, um, it sounds like, you know, a very
sounds like, you know, a very raw, uh, lesson but, you know, it's, if you, you're going
to be anyone to talk to and look up to, like the other kids, you know, most of the time
they don't talk, they would be their one-on-one.
extraordinary opportunity to experience things that very few would at the same time. The title
of this podcast is about empowering leadership, Matt, and we've seen a huge shift in our mind
away from that hierarchy, command and control coaching that we grew up here in Australia with.
It was very much dictatorial. You knew your place. You didn't have any say at all in the
environment. I understand you're really passionate about player-driven environments in what you do.
Can you explain why that's so important? Well, I think if the players are the ones
that are setting the standards and upholding the standards, you've got a lot better chance
for them to reach their personal best. And I think the buy-in is greater. The accountability
is greater. And the way that I like to lead personally is it is a collective effort. And
that's why it's so important to surround yourself with people that might be
experts in a different area that can complement you. I tell a lot of people all the time is
when you assemble a coaching staff, it's putting a puzzle together. And how does each piece
complement the other? And how do we all fit? And that's why for me, number one is
the men that work here for the Green Bay Packers have got to be men of character.
That's a non-negotiable. And I've
always said that.
I've always said, give me the man first, the coach second, and we'll figure it out
and collectively find ways to get it done. But we have a very, you know, I would say
collaborative approach that we take, whether it's from other coaches, whether it's from
the players. And we always joke with the players, you know, I'll always listen to you. I can't
guarantee that that's the decision we'll make, but we're always trying to do what's best
for us. And it's not about who's right. It's about what's right and what's right for us. And
again, whether that's our lowest assistant or myself or whoever, I try to look at all of us
as equals. And Matt, I love, you know, your language around, you know, give me the man
first, the person first and character, you know, trumps, you know, skill, you know,
anytime. And can you tell us how that plays out in your decision making? Does that flow through to,
you know, recruiting as well? And how do you measure that? A lot of people want to get good
people on their team. How do you make a science of getting good people into your organization?
Gosh, that is the magic question. I would say, I know personally, so when I first got hired
here, we have 23 coaches on our coaching staff, which I think blows a lot of people's minds
that there's so many of us. And then in the off season, our players will have a 90 man roster
that gets cut down to about, to really 69 players. Cause we've got a 53 plus another 16 on the P
squad. But the coaches is ultimately what I would say that I've got more control over.
And, you know, it was such an interesting process going through interviewing a lot of people.
Certainly you're, you're taking recommendations on people that you know, and you trust.
Um, ironically enough,
when I first got hired here, I had worked with two guys from our original staff and both for work
for one year. Um, so it didn't take the approach of, I'm going to hire my friends. It was more
the approach of, we got to find who's right for the green Bay Packers. And, um, you know, going
through the interview process, there was some coaches that had great experience and, um, you
know, that were quite frankly,
probably a little bit further along than others, but for myself, it was more of a gut feel in terms
of who we hired. And, um, ultimately I was, I try to lead with my gut, um, a little bit, and
sometimes it's good, sometimes not so good, but I do think we, we had a unbelievable staff. I think
we, and it's evolved. People have gotten up other opportunities and moved on. And, um, I'm so
thankful for everybody that's come.
Working with us and, um, you know, together, and, um, it's always, it's a little bittersweet. I would
say when guys get, get up other opportunities, you're so fired up for them. Ultimately, you know,
that it's, it could potentially hurt your organization and, uh, maybe your day to day a
little bit. Now we had a big transition, uh, not, not after this past season, after the previous
season where our offensive coordinator, Nathaniel Hackett gets hired in Denver.
Um, he brought along with him, Justin Alton is the offensive coordinator. Then Luke gets, he gets
a coordinator job in Chicago. So there was a lot of, um, you know, pieces, valuable pieces that you
have to replace. So every year there's going to be some turnover on your staff. And, um, ultimately
you're, you're always trying to get it right. And again, you lean on the people you trust guys that
maybe have worked with others in our profession that can, can vouch for their work ethic, can
vouch for their character.
But I do think it's, it's very important for us to, to get to know each individual as best we can.
And, um, you know, some you're going to be more familiar with than others and went through it,
uh, this year had to hire a, uh, a defensive back coach that I've never even talked to before, but
again, reached out to a couple of people that he had worked with that swore by the character.
He ironically worked with three of our coaches that were already in staff. And
man, I'm so fired up about, uh, this guy, Greg Williams,
and what he brings and just the energy he brings. But, um, you know, it's,
it's definitely not a perfect science along the way you try to do your best to,
to get a good feel for some of the guys within the interview process, but the interview process
can definitely be a very challenging because, um, I know that two of the guys that we originally
hired on the first staff didn't have the best of interviews, but again, trusted something in my,
my gut. I knew they were great people and, and the people that they had worked with
swore by them. And I'm so thankful that I trusted those people and we, we brought them on board and
they've been, uh, some of our better coaches. That's fascinating to me. You, you hear your
reference, your gut instinct, uh, a couple of times there in that answer around and around
people and, and the privilege of sitting down in this podcast with different people from different
backgrounds, that is a common thing that comes up almost every time. It's like when I've trusted my
instinct and really listened to myself, I've been able to, I've been able to, I've been able to, I've
almost always have a good outcome when I've gone away from that. And I want someone to be good
because I need them to be good. That's where, you know, we've, we've got into some, uh, some
trouble and I'm, I'm not surprised. That's a huge part of the intuition that you've got in,
in building your team. And Matt, we've been really grateful and excited that, uh, you've
been part of something that I really care about. Matt Waterwitz, uh, him and I were great mates
from under 12s. We played football together and, uh, Alita Connect, you probably know it as the
World Coach Symposium of bringing together extraordinary, extraordinary, extraordinary
coaches like yourself to, to connect and to learn and to share in non-competing
environments. And your Alita Connect group is, as we refer to it as, uh, Mikel Arteta,
who's having an extraordinary season with, uh, with Arsenal, uh, George Carl, an NBA Hall of Fame,
uh, coach, Eddie Jones, who started as the head coach of English rugby now, uh, back here in
Australia coaching, um, Australian rugby. Mike Dunlap is at the, uh, Milwaukee Bucks. Can you
tell us about that, that experience for you, Matt, taking the time out to reflect,
and connect with different coaches around the globe? Oh, it's invaluable. Um, I've never been
a part of something like this before, and it is one of the coolest experiences that I've been able
to partake in. I'm so thankful for, for Mike Dunlap for getting me in touch with Matt and Matt
and all the work he puts in, um, and just to, uh, gain perspective from these other guys. And
I swear, every time I go in that group, I was like, man, these guys,
must think I'm a dope because, uh, they are some intelligent dudes and they've always got great
insight, uh, great ideas, just great perspective. And it's, it's interesting. You know, I, I want
to say that, um, I may be the youngest of the group on that, um, you, you know, you know,
in that group, but, uh, just the perspective and wisdom these guys have is amazing. And,
you know, going through,
uh, during our season, we're hit some tough times, you know, prior to this year,
we hadn't lost two games in a row. And then we go on a stretch where we lose like seven of eight.
And so it was, it was great to be able to lean on those guys and gain some perspective in terms of
how they try to get their teams maybe out of a slump. Um, and it's also been so much fun to not
only get to know these guys, but to get to watch them, um, McKellar Teta, uh, what,
and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,
unbelievable coach, unbelievable leader. I watched the all or nothing on, um, on Amazon
prime and I was, I just was glued to it. And every, every time, you know, they have a match,
I'm, you know, always keeping up same with, with coach Dunlap with the bucks. Uh, I can't wait to
see what Eddie brings to the Australian rugby team. Cause I think he has got an, I mean,
he's unbelievable coach as well. And, uh, great perspective, like I've said, and then, you know,
always has just, uh, you know, unbelievable experiences and a wealth of knowledge to draw
on. And Matt, for, for the mechanics of it, for you to slot in an hour and a quarter meeting,
which is what it is. And, and, um, you know, uh, maybe once a month, or can you tell us about,
you know, most people would think, uh, your role it's, uh, it's surrounded by lots of pressure,
but I suspect it's a bit of a lonely thing at times, isn't it? That leadership and
to be able to share that with other people,
who know exactly what you're, you're feeling, they know what it's like to sit in that chair.
They know the pressures. It's, uh, it seems like a pretty valuable thing, as you said,
to be able to get that perspective. Is that, is that how it feels?
Oh, absolutely. Uh, every, every time, you know, we have a chat, you take about four or five things
from that at a minimum. I mean, Matt used to, he, he, he would kind of make fun of me because the
first time I'm on there, I'm just taking notes the whole time. And just, I referenced those notes all
And it's, it's pretty cool when you get an inside look at, like I mentioned the, uh, all or nothing
with Arsenal and watching the Cal work. And you can see just some of the things that we talk about
come to life. And, um, you know, I've been fortunate. I traveled with the Milwaukee bucks
a year ago and, uh, went on like a, uh, a road trip with them for a couple of games and just
to watch how coach Boone holes are, um, you know, runs his squad. And it's so different.
Our worlds are completely different in terms of just the day-to-day, um, you know, time commitment
that is placed upon the job and what you got to get done. But, um, it, there, there were so many
lessons from going with those guys, watching how they work. And that's quite frankly, how I met
coach Dunlap and, um, that I swear he might be the smartest person I've ever met in my life.
Uh, but it's just, it's great to be able to pick those guys brains and develop
a relationship with them and try to learn from them.
And we really love, I had such a great pleasure to sit down and do this with, with Mike, as you said,
the, the wisdom that pours out of, uh, of, uh, Mike Dunlap is extraordinary and, and not dissimilar
to this, uh, conversation, but we think that there's something special in sharing great leaders
and, and just their life hacks and, and getting together. And I know this sounds a bit altruistic,
Matt, but from a world where, you know, sometimes leadership has been challenging in a global sense,
the more people that you're talking to, the more people that you're talking to, the more people
that, uh, share their wisdom and, and, and their influence in a, in a positive way.
And you've been incredibly generous, uh, in referring, um, the program I lead to connect
on Darrell Franklin's the chief of staff at Green Bay. He was, uh, in a really fascinating group
with an Australian legend, uh, John Bertrand, who, who knocked off the Americans in the
America's Cup. He's a, uh, a hall of fame, uh, uh, icon, uh, John, and one of our great coaches,
Justin Leppich. And that group is fascinating with different people as well. And,
and you've also, um, recommended to Sean McVay. As you said, you've got a great history with Sean,
who's a competing coach at the LA Rams. I mean, it's a, it's a generous thing for you to,
to share it on. Do you feel like it has got purpose? You don't necessarily have to be a
head coach of an NFL to get benefit out of coming together in this, this forum?
Oh, we could all learn from one another and whether you're a head coach or you're an assistant coach,
Darrell's our chief of staff. Uh, he's the guy that I lean on regularly every day. And what I
love about Darrell, and this is what you find out about leadership is sometimes people are afraid
to really tell you the truth. Well, Darrell is not one of those guys. He always, he always comes at
me and he'll hit me with it and he's not afraid. And sometimes I might get upset and angry. Uh,
but it's stuff that you always need to hear. You need to hear the truth, whether you want to hear
it or not. And I think that's one thing that we are, are, you know, we're always coaching our
coaches, but if I, if I'm not coachable as well, then, you know, I think there's a problem with
that. So always learning, willing to learn, got to be able to take the tough criticism to just
try to do our best. All we ask everybody is to be their best, the best version of them,
whatever that, that may be. Um, you know, I, I, I've been doing a lot of reading. Uh, it's,
it's interesting to, you know, go back and read books by like coach Wooden,
and how he defines success and success is just being at your best. And it might not be
holding the Superbowl trophy, but if we can lead everybody to their potential,
then we have a chance at achieving that ultimate goal.
And we love the, the, uh, the leadership in people who've got a full on schedule,
still take the time out, as you said, to be the best version of themselves, constantly learning.
And we think that's a great example. It's been brilliant to have you. And I said,
I just wanted to ask you a question.
About Sean McVay and it's slightly off topic, but someone was telling me he's got a savant
like ability to remember, you know, you two are coaching six years ago. It could be rounds free
play six. He knows exactly the play. What happened in that call? Is that an urban myth or am I,
um, I'm on the money. He's going to try to downplay it, but it is, uh, a memory like
nobody I've ever been around. I mean, it is, he, he will,
when we were working on the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh,
working together, he'd be like, Hey, uh, pull up that game from Denver in Chicago from two years
ago. I think it was in the second quarter. I mean, it is unbelievable, but the guy, he loves football.
He studies, um, you know, he, he fully invests in, in the game, in the people. I can't tell you
how much I learned from him. And he was the youngest head coach in NFL history. I want to
say he was 29 when he got the Rams job. And, uh,
here I am about seven years older than him. And I'm looking at him in all, uh, just unbelievable
person, a great leader. He was, I was for Sean, what Daryl is for me. I was the guy that always
was going to tell him the truth. And sometimes he didn't want to hear it. And man, we would have
some battles back and forth. The best beam, uh, I'll never forget this. So we were on the practice
field and, um, you know, coaches,
we're competitive and we might have our own idea or way of seeing something. And I got into a little
bit of a disagreement with another coach and Sean kind of jumped in. And, um, I was, I was the
coordinator, uh, at the time and he jumps in and kind of took the other guy's side and I'll never
forget. And this is one of my best friends. I went into his office. I said, Hey, Sean,
with all due respect, because when you say with all due respect, anything's your free
name. I said, why don't you just fire me right now? And, uh, he, he flipped the script on me
though. He's like, you know what? I'm miserable, man. I can't, I can't take this job right now.
And I was like, you can't say that you're the head coach. And it ended up being a, you know,
we hugged it out and got through it. But those are the stories that you always remember. And
in, in the time it was, you know, there was some tension, but now we sit, we sit back and we
laugh about it. And it's a great story. It's like the beauty of when you've got an environment
where that trust is there, you can, you can be hard on your sleeve and, and, and call it it as
you see it. Um, I want to ask you a topical question and, um, you know, I'm sure you'll
answer this however, however you feel, but you're one of your players, Aaron Rogers in all time,
he's an all-time great of American football, Superbowl winner, four-time NFL MVP, 39 years
of age and, and been at Green Bay his whole career. No one plays forever, do they? That's
just the reality of it. I mean, how do you handle those leadership conversations, man? How do you
apply the values when, you know, anyone gets to the end of their career, it's always a nuanced
conversation. How have you been able to handle those conversations? I think with, with just
being honest, um, about the situation and, you know, Aaron's a guy that I have so much respect
for just what he's done, not only for the organization, but
I can speak personally. I've learned so much from him, uh, many times as coaches, uh, you know,
it's, it's a pretty good idea to learn from the best players you've been around. And I've learned
so much from him and he's got an unbelievable perspective of how he sees the game. And that's
one of the challenges you're always trying to get on the same page, especially with that position.
I would argue that that position is, is, is valuable as any and all sports. Uh, when you
have a guy like that, you know,
you have an opportunity to go out and win and compete at the highest level each and every
week. And he's, he's another guy that his memory might be right up there with Sean's, um, maybe
better, but he, oh, he is, he is incredible. I've never met somebody that can multitask the way he
can. And what I mean by that is we'll be in a game. Um, you know, he is so observant, so aware of
everything that's going on.
And he can sit there and he can be watching the defense in between the play, the way we call plays
in, you know, he hears it through his headset. I could be telling him to play. He could be having a
conversation with, with somebody else, see what the defense is doing. Um, it is unique. I've never
been around anybody like that. And now when you have a guy that talented, because the guy can
still play at a really high level, I mean, shoot two years ago.
You know, back to back MVPs. Um, and he, he's been a great leader for us. And, um, you know, I, I know
that again, it's, it's a highly criticized league, a highly criticized position. Um, and that, that
kind of comes with the territory. And, you know, personally, I believe that a lot of times
quarterbacks get too much credit when you win and too much blame when you lose. And that's just
comes with the position, but, um, you know, he's, he's done a lot for us.
A lot of people. And he does so much stuff that, that people don't even see. I can't tell you
the time he takes. And we have a pretty cool thing here. Every week we have a make a wish
kid or two come in when we have home games. And, you know, this is, they'll come in on Saturday.
They'll watch our Saturday. We have a walkthrough on Saturdays. And then after, after practice,
we'll go back in the lunchroom and have lunch. And he will sit with that kid and the families
for an hour. And I don't know too many superstars in with, with our busy schedule that devote that
type of time and attention. And when, when he is there, he is present and he does an unbelievable
job with that. And, you know, like you said, it's, it's always tough when you get into a
situation. Um, certainly I always want what's best for him and, and at the end and for what's
best for, for all of us, for the Packers. And,
um, but he's a guy that I will always be grateful for, um, whether he's playing for
the Green Bay Packers or if he chooses to retire or play somewhere else.
And when you look at it, um, Matt, um, the history is fascinating, isn't it? For the
Green Bay to have, you know, he's going to be a hall of fame, uh, quarterback. There's
no question about that. His predecessor, Brett Favre is a hall of fame, you know, Green Bay
quarterback. And so for your organization to have that back to back, and there's probably
a similar pattern, isn't it? Really, you know, Brett gets to the end and, and it's,
it's, it's challenging, isn't it? So loved and so respected and so successful Superbowl
winning, uh, quarterbacks. It's a, it's a little bit of history, um, repeating itself
in some ways, but, uh, but I suppose a great story for, for Green Bay all around at the
Yeah, I was, I was joking. Our fans have been very spoiled by two unbelievable quarterbacks.
And like I said, they just, they give you a chance to win each and every week. And I
know we've, we've been close.
We've been close a few times, but, but didn't get it done. And that's just, that's part
of this game. And, and, um, you know, there's a little bit of luck, I would say along the
way that the competitive balance in the NFL is, is it's unbelievable because truly you
could any given Sunday, I'm sure you, you've heard that, that term before, and they, they
had a movie about it, you know, and, uh, but it's the truth because if we don't go out
and perform at our best.
Whether you're the best team or the worst team in the league, you, you might get beat
and you always got to put it out there.
Man, I feel, um, talking Green Bay Packers and you as the head coach that, uh, that Vince
Lombardi legacy as, you know, maybe the most revered sports coach in world sport ever,
and there've been more books written about Lombardi and more quotes attributed to him
than maybe ever coached. Can you feel, you know, five-time, uh, Green Bay Superbowl winner,
including Superbowl winner?
One and two Vince Lombardi. Can you sort of feel that, that, that presence in the, in
the part of the history when you walk through the, the corridors?
Oh, you can see, you see it all over. So, yeah. And I mean, not to mention that the
Superbowl trophy is the Lombardi trophy. So, um, no, that's one of the beauties of the
Green Bay Packers. It's, it's like got the history and legacy of, of teams like the New
And, um, it's just, it's one of those franchises, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
it's just, it's one of those franchises and it's extremely special. Like I said, the expectations
here are extremely high. And I embrace that. I love that. I wouldn't want it any other
way. And, um, you know, I think that allows us to really work, to be our best each and
every day. And we got to utilize each and every day to give ourselves a chance to put
ourselves in a position to potentially hoist that Lombardi trophy. That one thing I like
to always talk to.
to our guys about is we will respect the history of the green bay packers but it's our job to make
new history and it just it's not going to fall in your lap you've got to work for it each and every
day and uh matt um you're changing sort of tax slightly i look at you know your day-to-day and i
i see a strong healthy fit uh looking you know 43 rolled in front in front of me what what sort of
things do you do daily is there any sort of hacks and daily routines that you do that keep you
healthy in this job yeah uh well first of all i got my shirt on so i look better with my shirt on
than my shirt off but um no i i would say it is important for us especially this time of year
where we get out and get some exercise um you know one of my assistants put me through a great
little workout routine this afternoon and i'm
but i'm gonna fight through it but no i try to work out each and every day um at least a little
bit of movement whether it's 20 minutes whether it's 40 minutes you know time is at a premium and
and you got to try to balance that and manage your time the best you can and be efficient
when we're at work um you know like i said during the season it gets much more challenging though
because just there's there's going to be some days where you're going to get four hours of sleep or
five hours of sleep and you know that starts to pile up the longer the season goes and our season
tends to be pretty long although not as long as um you know soccer or football as is as the rest
of the world knows it um you know but i just i do think it's important to just you know
clear your mind and and blow off some steam in that regard um and so i i try to get something
in each and every day and then we have an unbelievable setup here with with our nutrition
plan we've got our uh head nutritionist adam corzine does an unbelievable job for us and
you know he'll make up a meal plan for us so we're not eating too bad um but it does it does
get a little bit challenging during the season of of staying in shape especially when you're
working there late and uh you want a little snack
seems like you got a good hand on that uh matt we've been identifying these dimensions of
leadership uh uh matt waterwoods and i through talking to incredible leaders like yourself and
seeing these these patterns and we think that you're really hard to lead others without a sense
of self-leadership when i ask that back to you what does self-leadership mean well i i think
first of all when you're talking about leadership you've got to be true to who you are and know who
you are and know where you're weak and you've got to be true to who you are and know where you're
strong and we we got a lot of uh like i said we got a collaborative effort around us so i try to
surround myself with people that are smarter than me and better in a lot of different areas and then
you know lean on one each other or lean on each other but i think a lot of it is just you know
developing those relationships and and trying to be disciplined in your own life and and knowing
what your true core values are um because that helps you to be more disciplined in your own life
helps set your vision if you know what you want to be about then i think you can articulate that
better and get more buy-in from everybody else yeah brilliant uh brilliant answer and that
authentic uh nature of who you are is very um you know something you can see in all of your answers
positively impacting others in the environment we see people in leadership positions now really
who do it well really conscious day-to-day how they impact people positively in your day-to-day
life is that something you think about in your day-to-day life is that something you think about
think of absolutely i think uh you know what's what's what's remarkable to me is and if people
really knew me i i don't think they'd be as uh in awe and you know you go out in the in the public
and everybody wants to meet you and shake your hand and get a picture and all this and i was
like man they'd be disappointed if they were at home with me on a daily basis but i i do think
it's important that when you're in a situation where you're in a situation where you're in a
you have conversations with people especially with people in your building to be present because
that 30-second conversation or that five-minute conversation however long it may be that might
be the most important conversation for them throughout the course of the day and i think
that can really impact their work and what they bring to the table and just the buy-in you get
from them the effort that they're going to give each and every day um so i think that for me is
just making sure i'm as present as possible and don't get me wrong the wheels are always kind of
turning um because it is at times it can be challenging when when there's stuff going on
obviously there's a lot going on with our team right now and you you constantly have certain
things in your head but to the best of your ability you've got to try to just shut that off
and and totally be invested in and and be present and be where your feet are and um
give that person just the respect uh to to fully invest in that conversation and matt you sort of
say with a smile you know uh be careful we'll be in awe of of matt lefleur you're as human as
everyone else and and everyone he is i mean what do you mean that on the home front you're you're
making mistakes and yeah you know we do tend to um you know uh idolize you know particularly in
such a high profile role like yours um you're saying reality is there's there's there's
bumps and and along the way that people don't see is that is that what you're saying oh yeah i'm far
from perfect and i'll be the first to admit that and again i but i think that's part of the journey
you're going to make mistakes hopefully you don't make the same mistake twice you try to learn from
whatever it is that where your shortcomings are and you're you're constantly trying to get better
and i i think you can't do that if you don't have some semblance of humility and you know
luckily for me i've got guys like daryl
franklin that help keep me humble and uh people like my wife that will will bring me down quite a
bit at times and but i need it and uh no i'm kidding she's unbelievable supportive but uh no
but that's part of this is just surrounding yourself with people that they're going to keep
it real with you and you know tell you the hard truth sometimes yeah there's great comfort for me
and that isn't it constantly trying to be better not not ever you know expecting to be perfect but
constantly learning and learning and learning and learning and learning and learning and learning
as uh as you're you know very uh passionate about creating and sharing a vision leaders uh you know
positions like yours and in other areas as well they're really clear on how they share that vision
i'm assuming the packers vision is pretty clear how do you go about getting the buy-in and sharing
that vision well i i think by establishing what what's important your values and then um i always
think it's you know we have so many people involved in our our process or our organization
um and it's important to hear them too and what's important to each individual and you know
i've said it a million times but it's it's about that collective vision ultimately somebody's got
to you know set it but i i think it is important along the the way to you know hear everybody out
and then you know you got to go with whatever whatever you think is best to get the most out
of your team and matt uh curiosity is a word that we associate a lot with when we're talking about
our leaders really focus on curiosity or are curious and that's how they think about learning
and and improving themselves does that resonate with you curiosity absolutely i would uh be in
the world coaches symposium if i wasn't curious on how these other guys lead and to take ideas
from them and you know that's why i do like to read or uh do a lot of audiobooks every morning
i drive to work it's about a 15 minute drive uh always have something on
and it it does mess me up at times when you want to take a note on something but um you got to be
careful and just try to clip it real fast but um no i think that's you just if you're not curious
it's hard to truly learn it's hard to truly grow um and so yeah i'm absolutely curious on a daily
basis can you share with us what what you're reading what what sort of uh books are in uh
your audio uh cassette at the moment i've got a lot of them but uh the one i'm on right now is
getting to neutral it's about the you know just that that neutral state not high not low um just
essentially getting to the truth um and uh so but i've i've done a lot of books and and that
was something that was foreign to me prior to getting the head job i've just dove into the
football side of things i would say and i've done a lot of books and i've done a lot of books
the x's and o's you know evaluating players um and then in in my free time spending my time with
my family so it's just it's been a great way to to maximize our time and i talked about just
being efficient so when you're when you got 15 minutes in the car or if i like to um listen well
while i'm working out and um it's it's a little bit harder when you're you're exhausted to really
lock in at times but it
also takes your mind off of the pain of of some of the workouts uh but just always try to maximize
those opportunities and the time to to try to learn a little something communicating with uh
with clarity something you you clearly do well are you conscious of of how you go about
communicating as as a leader of the green bay packers yeah i think it's it's all about being
clear and concise and um you know i read a great quote from
from the wooden book that i had recently read and a lot of times i think coaches we have a
tendency to over talk and it's important that the quote was don't take 30 minutes to say something
that might take 30 seconds so i try to do that with our team with our team meetings you know 15
20 minutes you know it's it's a very interesting um world right now i think people's attention
spans are are getting shorter and shorter and shorter and
where their guys are constantly i see with my kids on their ipads or guys are on their phones and
um the stimulus changes quite frequently for people in today's world um so i try to
get guys to dial in for for those short increments um and you know just change it up as much as we
need to um just to try to keep their attention reading a good book for you
at the moment matt's uh stolen focus johan hurry's book about exactly how the world's changed so much
and our capacity to have focus for extended periods of time has changed and so it's i'm not
surprised that people like you're adapting that message to a team that you know you're just really
wasting time aren't you if you overdo it you're going to lose that um ability for it to be
effective and it's interesting to hear that you're uh shortening me i sat in a lot of long team
meetings uh as a as a as a player and i think it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's
i go for an hour and a half weird player i remember teammates i mean we're professional
here in australia matt is a he's a loose term when you consider the scale of america but
played professional sport but i remember guys literally asleep and snoring in some of our team
meetings because they were you know 25 minutes and even back then uh you'd lost the attention
span for sure how important is this collaboration i've seen that too now somewhere i've had to keep
guys out of meetings so uh falling asleep in one of your meetings
oh that that is i've seen it happen um thankfully for us it hasn't happened many times but yeah you
you will uh i certainly won't stand for that if i see somebody starting to doze off hey stand up
do whatever you got to do to stay up yeah and fair enough isn't it to at least be awake
in a professional sporting meeting makes sense how important is collaboration to you
well i think that's everything we do on a daily basis um like i said we've got 23 coaches so
there's a lot of ideas getting thrown out there all the time um we have you know 11 guys on
offense nine guys on defense and three special teams coaches so everybody's got their own
little area of expertise and so you have to filter through these ideas um and and somebody's got to
make a decision but i think that's everything we do on a daily basis um i think that's everything
I do think it's an important part of just the buy-in process.
If people know that you're willing to listen,
I think you're going to get just better ideas.
They're going to be more invested in the process.
And ultimately, they're going to be better coaches, be more loyal.
And hopefully, that leads to a better product.
And all the research suggests that, isn't it?
If you feel like you've got a voice in your environment,
you feel like you're contributing in a meaningful way,
you're being listened to, you don't always get your way,
but it's the most effective leadership style.
And very clear purpose and passion of yours.
Matt, who's been the greatest leader in your life?
The greatest leader in my life?
Man, that's a very tough question, Luke,
because I've been around so many great leaders.
I would say my parents, first and foremost,
just modeling the right behaviors and instilling levels of discipline
that I would like to think that I possess.
And just a work ethic, knowing that there are no shortcuts to success.
And that doesn't even guarantee it.
You know, just always trying to strive to be your best.
But I've been fortunate to be around so many great coaches,
from guys like Gary Kubiak.
Gary Kubiak gave me my first opportunity in this league.
We've talked about guys like Robert Sala with the Jets
and Sean McVay and worked with Kyle Shanahan
and his father, Mike Shanahan,
who won two Super Bowls with the Denver Broncos.
Dan Quinn, who is now the defense coordinator for the Dallas Cowboys.
He was our head coach in Atlanta.
And quite frankly, a lot of what we do here
is from my experiences in Atlanta
and just how we train.
We try to create an environment
where guys enjoy coming to work on a daily basis
because it is a grind.
These men are under a lot of scrutiny each and every day,
both within the building and outside.
And, you know, all these guys, they read social media.
And, you know, unfortunately,
there's probably more hate in this world than guys.
And people are trying to tear you down at times.
And that's why it's so important that,
I'd tell these guys,
your diet isn't just what you eat.
It's everything you consume.
So, cut that out.
Don't look at it.
And I know it's tough to do
because these guys have grown up with that.
But, you know, just being around a guy like Dan Quinn
and just having these guys come to work
excited about coming to a team meeting,
not knowing what to expect,
you know, and still in competition,
and everything we do from the meeting setting
out on the practice field
with the thought of trying to, again,
have everybody reach their potential,
just be the best version of them.
I love that line.
Your diet's not what you eat.
It's everything you consume.
And I'm fascinated, isn't it?
Even at a professional level,
you guys are having to address that balance, isn't it?
Around, you know, there's as human as a kid goes,
going to school, aren't they?
And that level of direct contact now
that you can get through your phone
and it's right to the parenting puzzle
and the coaching puzzle, isn't it?
How do you, you can't exist without it,
but it can be pretty damaging, can't it?
For even professional athletes.
And I love your answers.
It's starting with mum and dad
and their profound influence on you,
but the range of influences being, you know,
the leadership that's shaped Matt LeFleur into who he is.
We are a bit obsessed with collaboration
in what we're trying to do at Alita,
a world of collaboration, inspiring connections,
trying to, as you said,
there's a bit of hate out there in the world,
but there's also a lot of joy
when great people like you share
why you're successful and get together with other people.
If you could collaborate with anyone, Matt, on anything,
is there a name that springs to mind?
Well, you know, just probably
because I just read his book,
but I would love,
I would have loved to have met and sat down
and listened to John Wooden and his philosophies
because, man, there's so many gold nuggets
that he possessed.
And he had, I think he was quite, quite frankly,
ahead of his time and just the pyramid of success,
just his way that he developed that.
And I think it all goes back to his values
and what was important to him.
And that gave him the vision for which he led by.
The wizard of Westwood, John Wooden.
It's extraordinary.
I know, that's an easy one.
That's an easy one.
Everybody probably feels that.
But you generally feel like,
you know, you've taken,
you read that book
and there's practical things
that you can absorb into your daily role.
I don't think it's overly complex.
I think it's, you know,
it's very simple,
but yet relatable things that he did
and that he inspired his team by.
And I think it started with who he was as a man.
He was a man of high integrity.
And I think his players absolutely could see that.
And it got their buy-in.
Matt, I think I can feel the same values and integrity
just come out in our conversation today.
I know you've got an incredibly hectic time.
I really appreciate you taking the time to join me today
on the Empowering Leaders podcast
and equally grateful to have you join the World Coach Symposium
as part of Leader Connect
and to refer that to people that you trust in your sphere.
Thanks so much, Matt, for taking the time.
Really appreciate it.
I appreciate it all, Luke.
I've had a blast.
Like I said, I've learned a lot from the World Coaches Symposium
and I want to thank you and Matt
for allowing me to be a part of that group.
Thanks for joining us on the Empowering Leaders podcast.
Simply hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from
and join us every week.