It was in the middle of the Olympics, I'm fully warmed up to us, but that Monday morning
I knew it was different.
Out they walk for the women's 400 metre final, my mouth goes dry completely.
I feel a sense of, wow, I'm in trouble.
They'll be called to the set in just a moment.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast.
At Alita, we are passionate about inspiring connections and creating a world of collaboration.
Our signature program, Alita Connect, curates groups of five to six leaders from diverse
backgrounds in sport, industry, social venture, and the arts who come together to learn, to
connect, and to collaborate.
Kirsten King, founder of Fluidform Pilates.
It's been amazing.
Here you are on this Zoom call, feeling within the first session like you intimately know
these people and care for them, and then all of a sudden realising that even though you're
in totally different industries, we're all going through the same thing.
Or we've been through it and we can help each other, or there's just this hurdle that
you can't see past, and then you share it with the group and there's five answers in
40 minutes, and you think, I have not slept for two weeks thinking about that.
Like, how is this possible?
Craig McRae, senior coach of the Collingwood Football Club.
You're listening to stories and breadcrumbs of what makes success, and I constantly get
something out of these Zoom calls and catch-ups, because we're all living the same stuff,
Extraordinary people with extraordinary experience.
What happens there is magical.
The Empowering Leaders podcast is proudly brought to you by Victoria University, where cutting-edge
sports and exercise science facilities like heat chambers, performance labs, and altitude
environments mean VU is ranked seventh in the world for sports science.
VU, uniquely you.
As always, a big thank you to Jason Nicholas and his team.
At Temper Bedding, a mattress like no other.
If you enjoy listening to the Empowering Leaders podcast, be sure to subscribe, and please,
if you have a moment, we would love you to leave a review so we can reach more listeners
and empower more leaders.
For over four decades, Bruce McIverney has been one of the world's most iconic and respected
sports broadcasters, a Hall of Fame broadcaster, an Australian Football Hall of Famer who has
earned a legendary reputation as the voice of some of the most iconic sporting events
Including a remarkable 12 Summer Olympic Games, I'm going to make sure I get my stats
right here as I look across at Bruce, who I'm sure will tell me if I get this wrong,
20 Australian Rules Grand Finals, World Athletic Championships, World Swimming Championships,
the Melbourne Cup, the Rugby World Cup, and countless more.
Bruce McIverney's passion and expertise has seen him become as much of Australia's sporting
culture as the games themselves, a broadcasting giant whose voice is synonymous with some
of the most iconic moments in the history of sport.
Macca, great pleasure to see you.
It's quite a build-up, Darcy.
Now, Darcy, I'll get one thing straight.
I don't keep stats on myself.
I've got no idea how many of these things I've done unless I ring Josh Kay and say,
Josh, help me out, who you know from Channel 7.
So, generically speaking, you were spot on.
With the detail, I'd have to check.
We'll get an email from Josh Kay if it's more than 12 Summer Olympics, I'm sure.
But I think I've probably undersold you on every…
No, I think you've made me blush, to be truthful.
When I hear all that, Darcy, what I think is, ooh, I've had some opportunities.
That's what I think.
How fortunate I've been.
When I look at you, Macca, I love this saying, you can't manufacture passion.
When I see you, all I think of is this extraordinary level of passion, almost more than any other
person I've ever met, I think.
You love what you do.
Where does that come from?
You're not the first person that sort of chatted about that to me.
It surprises me when people say that about me.
Because I know I love it.
But I don't feel like I love it any more than anyone else loves it.
It comes from my mother and father, right from the start.
You know, grew up as a little boy in Adelaide, and mum and dad loved their sport.
And they'd tell me stories about, you know, great horses and great cricketers and great
And they'd make it so romantic.
And champions and battle against the odds.
So that's where it comes from.
It comes from having two parents that looked…
You know, they were both very passionate about their sport, probably in a similar way to
And it ignited a curiosity and, I guess, that passion in me from a young age.
Well, mine was immediately going to my grandfather, my dad's dad, and the same storytelling of
he saw Bradman at the MCG, he saw Farlap at Flemington, he saw John Coleman was his hero.
He thought John Coleman was the best sportsman he'd ever seen.
And they're the images that sort of light up your world.
And when I got the privilege to walk into a commentary…
The commentary box at the MCG, I still always remind myself what a privilege it is to be
sitting in the best seat in the house.
And occasionally you bump into a cranky journalist who'd be, you know, talking the game down,
If you saw you, you knew you were going to be filled with an anecdote or something that
Did you do that consciously or was that just you being you?
I think that's who I am.
Because there's a couple of things here.
I know how hard it is to be an elite sportsperson, how difficult it is.
Even if you're not the best player.
Even if you're not the best player in the team.
Even if you're the worst player in the team, you were the best player at your club at some
stage when you were growing up.
I was a young kid that wanted to play league footy and I wasn't good enough, but I was
not a bad footballer.
So I look at it that way, Darce.
I say to myself, okay, not everyone's perfect.
They're going to make mistakes during the match and some are better than others, but
they're all good.
They're all good.
And that's the way I probably go about things.
That's why I always loved, and all of us loved your style.
Because of that, you celebrated people.
Again, I'm going off on a tangent, but it feels like in this part of the world, Australia,
we're now following that American style.
How do we land the heaviest blow on an athlete or go for the most hyperbole we can?
How do you relate to that style of broadcasting?
Look, we all do it our own way.
And there's no right or wrong, but I know what's right for me.
So I'm not going to judge others, Darce, but there's a lot of competition.
A lot of voices, a lot of TV shows, and executives want results, people to watch.
So life's changed since I started broadcasting football in a big way.
So look, we all do it our own way.
We do it the best way we can.
I think consistency is the key.
If you are what you are, then you stay true to it.
Good balanced answer, Mac.
I expect nothing less from you, you being your authentic self.
Your preparation for what you do is legendary.
A lot of us saw that as homework and hard work.
It seems to me that you love that as much as the event itself.
The preps is exciting for me as the performance.
You mean that really?
I do because I'm curious.
And the more you find out about somebody or something, then it gives you that opportunity
to talk about that when you're performing.
But the minute, Darce, I don't want to do the prep, I won't want to do the performance.
They'd go hand in hand.
Look, it was a funny thing.
I wasn't a good student.
There were a couple of subjects I wasn't bad in.
But I do treat my job as if it's a studious treatment.
And it's a build up during the week of something.
And I become more and more interested in it.
And by the time I get to the ground, I feel like I'm in pretty good shape to enjoy what
I've tried to learn during the week.
And you've seen that.
I've had the privilege of seeing that firsthand.
And you can just see.
You can see the highlighters and the handwritten notes and the anecdotes that come to you freely.
And have you never had a day where you thought, wow, I just, you know what, I'm just not up
for this four hours of day two?
I have those days.
I had one yesterday, actually.
So we're talking on a Friday afternoon.
I had one yesterday where I was in a bit of a quagmire with some preparation for an athletics
meeting I'm doing.
So I've got little things I do that change that.
So I do some easy.
I do some easy stuff for an hour.
I'll give myself a break.
I'll go and have a cup of tea.
I'll take the dog for a walk.
Whatever, whatever, whatever.
I know there's certain things I have to do to feel right.
But I do get like that.
But I know how to switch off and then switch back on.
And when I switch back on, I'm back into it.
So it's a bit weird, but it's just the way it is.
Media can be a brutal game as well, Macca.
And you've been this high profile public face of networks and been on television for four
And there is some dark arts that goes on in this world.
And people have tried to cut you down over the journey.
And we've all seen that being in the industry and ridiculous things said behind your back
and rumours about you.
Did that take some skin off you at various stages?
How did you cope?
I mean, you're just not, I think, telling the truth if you're saying nothing bothers
me because everything bothers you.
Because there's two sorts of criticisms in a generic sense.
There's the ones that are fair.
And they hurt because we're all pretty good judges.
You'd be the same of how you're doing.
So there's one that's fair.
At the end of this interview, you're going to spend the next day thinking, how did I
And I'm going to spend the next day thinking, how did I go?
So let's get that straight from the start.
So the ones that are fair hurt.
And the ones that are unfair hurt.
So they both hurt.
They hurt in different ways.
So you're frustrated with the ones that are unfair.
And you feel immediately like you want to write it all, but you can't.
And the ones that are spot on, then you say to yourself, well, how can I improve?
So look, they do hurt.
I absolutely 100% never look at social media.
A, don't really know how to.
And B, have no interest.
And in the end, it's a small group of people that I look to for, I guess, reassurance that
I'm still doing pretty well.
Obviously it's myself.
So it's hard to us.
You can be overwhelmed at times.
And if you're a fragile soul, then you're hanging on for dear life a lot of the times.
It's a pretty tough world.
But it's, the rewards are incredible because as I said to you earlier, when you read out
some of the things I've been able to do over the years and see, not just call, then, you
know, the plus side is so much greater than the negative.
And I don't want to harp on the negative at all because there's so much to celebrate,
but as an outsider, not knowing you, it felt like some of that's targeted, that there's
almost a campaign because, you know, you're valuable.
You make money for a network.
Did it ever feel like that?
Did you ever feel like, hey, there's a team out here having a real go to try and undermine
you or you just didn't know that?
There's been one or two instances over the years where it's probably been a bit targeted.
And what do you do, Luke?
What do you do about it?
I've got Annie, my wife.
You know, she knows the business back to front and she's such a good person for me in lots
But in this area, she's really good.
And we'll have a chat about things.
I'll give you a quick example.
There was something written about me quite recently, actually, that was completely wrong.
Every line was incorrect.
It made me out to be mercenary, that I'd sought a job with a network at the Olympics.
It was a photo in the paper.
I was aligned to something.
I was like a drive-by.
Now, I had two choices there.
One was to really take them on or one was just to let them know they got it wrong and
it's up to them whether they want to write it.
They don't want to write it.
I'm not going to take them on.
It's pretty cruel.
And it wasn't pleasant.
But so you just, you've got to live with it.
And I'm sure if I keep working in the industry for the next three to five years, there'll
be times where I think to myself, oh, boy.
What do I do about this?
Because it's unfair.
But that said, I'm far from perfect.
I've had a lot of things I would like to have taken back over the years as a caller.
And I feel like I've let myself down a few times, quite a few times.
But that's the business we're in, Luke.
And it's reaction.
And none of us are foolproof.
So you've got to understand that.
I think the thing I've admired you, Macca, from afar and the occasional time of the,
you know, pleasure to sit in a commentary box with you is just the relationship you've
You walk in and you've got a great relationship with wardrobe and with the makeup team and
the cameramen and women.
And again, it just, is that a conscious thing for you?
You've always been a great team player is how I'd describe you.
Did you think about that?
Or is it, again, you being you?
I think it's me being me.
And it gets back to mum and dad probably.
In this way, maybe mum more than dad in some ways.
Because I think everyone is equal.
We all do our job as well as we possibly can.
And I know that as a television performer, two of the most important people in my life
are makeup and wardrobe.
And then the third one is the floor manager.
How important they are.
You've got to feel good in your clothes.
You've got to think like you're looking all right.
And then you have that floor manager.
So those people are just as important to me as Lee Matthews and Dennis.
Who were so important to me amongst others.
So that's how I, that's me.
And I believe it wholeheartedly.
I also think we're a team.
Some of us are playing it somehow forward.
And some of us might be playing in the back pocket.
But without everybody, we can't do what we're doing.
So that's, I guess, in a nutshell, how I feel.
And the other thing I love about, you know, if you've bumped into Macca, there was a great chance that you're going to bump into Macca.
And you've bumped into Sean.
And Sean, he's not so young anymore, but has been a part of your life for a long, long time now.
Can you share that story of your great friendship?
And you've had an incredible impact on his life.
And where did that start?
I spoke to him yesterday and I'll be seeing him tomorrow.
He's coming to the athletics with me.
He rings me every Thursday at 11 o'clock Adelaide time, no matter where he is in the world, which is usually in the same spot, or where I am.
So Sean Gallagher.
He'll be 63 on December the 9th this year.
Sean, I hope I got that right.
I met him in the betting ring at Flemington in 1985.
So we go back a fair way.
And yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
And then I took him up into the broadcast box after a few weeks and haven't been able to get rid of him.
I mean, you know, you reckon Lingy was a good run with player.
Lingy inside out.
So he's been running with for 40 years now.
So he's a oxygen deficiency when he was born.
So incredible mother.
Suzette is in her 80s and unbelievable because she says no to nothing.
She surely asks a lot and she tries to do everything she possibly can.
Beautiful family.
His brother has got a very big job in Los Angeles in the media world.
Simon was a good runner.
Penny tragically died in the 40s and that's been unbelievably sad for everybody.
And she was such a great help to Suzette with Shawnee.
So Shawnee's special.
There's only one.
And, you know, I've got a lot more out of Shawnee than he's got out of me.
I'm not sure about that, Macca, because it's, again, it's a full on job.
There's every reason that that's a hard thing to do, to literally have someone in tow the whole time.
And have you met Shawnee?
He's just one of those great people.
You want to smile, I've seen it.
But there's some management too.
You know, Shawnee's.
It takes some work.
But you've changed his life in a way that no one else really could have.
And that must be something.
A, it sums you up to me in one story.
But, yeah, it's an incredible story.
I've had a lot of help.
I was solo for a while, but so many others have picked up the bat.
And, look, it's amazing.
You know, Gerard Healy did an incredible job with him.
Tim Watson was great with him.
And he's got a lot of.
He's got a lot of people that have been superb.
No, he's enriched my life.
And, look, he's so much fun.
And, look, he's no filter, Darce.
If you work for anyone but Channel 7 or his favourite radio racing station, you're a rat bag.
It's as simple as that.
And, you know, it's a funny world.
The Shawnee world's unique.
He called me fake triple M every time I saw him.
Not the real triple M.
Real triple N's in Adelaide.
Yeah, you've got to be in Adelaide.
You've got to be calling out of Adelaide.
And you and Jimmy and Billy, you're all fakes.
And no matter what you do, Darce, you cannot change it.
I've got to transition from that to a current story.
And I know this is why you're in town at the moment.
I saw you spend some time with Gout Gout.
Can you tell us a bit about this incredible young Australian athlete?
Look, what he's doing is it's hard to get your head around.
So he's running times.
You know, he's the fastest 16-year-old.
Quicker than Bolt.
He's been able to get to a place quicker than anybody else in world history.
But we've never had a male sprinter quite like him.
Now, at the moment, we're enriched, Darce, with some great talent in sprinting for men.
And in track and field full stop, we're going through a golden period.
But this is the shining star because he's off the charts, so to speak.
So he's run 20.04.
Legally, for 200 metres.
He ran 19.98 a couple of weeks ago in Brisbane.
He's just turned 17.
So 29th of December is his birthday.
He's well coached by old school Dye Shepherd.
Extremely well managed as well by James Templeton and knows his way around the tracks.
He's one of seven children.
So Gout's older brother was born in Sudan.
His older sister in Egypt on their way to Australia, as it turned out.
He was born in Ipswich.
And then there's four others, twins and etc.
Mum, Monica, Dad, Bonner.
Dad's a really hardworking.
They're battlers in many ways.
So that's their family.
He's a year 12 student.
He had exams this week, by the way.
And he's going to run Saturday and tomorrow night.
So he's highly motivated and very well managed.
It's a beautiful combination.
So I did get to spin.
I spent quite a bit of time with him.
And he looked me in the eye and he shook my hand.
My hand, he called me Bruce.
And you forget how young he is.
So he's got all the flair and all the pomp that good sprinters should have, the great ones.
But he's also got a lot of respect.
So I'm excited about him as a human being, what he might do with his life away from the track.
But I'm extremely excited about how good he might turn out to be.
Because none of us know.
And it's, you know, you're a child prodigy, so to speak, not child, but young prodigy.
And we know that in the world of athletics and any sport that nothing's taken for granted.
So we'll see how it ends up.
But we're on a journey with him, Dars.
And on a journey with a male sprinter that we haven't really seen the likes of before in Australia.
So that transition from elite 17-year-old running those times,
there's still hurdles to jump figuratively and literally, isn't there?
To get to become.
To get to become the champion elite male athlete, it's still a path to navigate.
If he runs 20.04, he probably makes the Olympic final at the moment.
And that's where he's at.
So, you know, the world record is 9.58 for 100 metres and 19.19 for 200.
Those world records are now 16 years old.
So they've stood for a long time.
They were set by a bloke who was 22 years of age when he did it, Usain Bolt.
So you think about Bolt, great young athlete.
We're comparing his times with Gow.
Bolt ran his fastest times when he was 22.
He never got any quicker, but he went on to win six more Olympic gold medals.
So what it says is that, you know, you can still be great,
but everyone reaches their absolute peak at a different age.
Carl Lewis's fastest 100 metre time was at the age of 30.
Bolt's was at 22.
Now, I'm picking those two out because they're the two best I've seen over a long period now.
84 through to 2016 with Bolt.
So they're the two best, I think, probably ever in terms of male sprinters.
There's an argument with Bob Hayes and a few others.
One did it at 30 and one did it at 22.
So what's Gow going to do?
So we've got to understand he's just not going to keep improving like he is at the moment.
So the challenge for him is that he's got to try and find another almost second.
So he's got to try and find another almost second.
To be the best in the world.
And the two people that are probably standing in front of him at the moment are both young.
One's 21 and one's 20.
One's from Botswana and one's from the United States.
And he can see those targets.
Let's see where he's at at the end of this year, the World Championships in Tokyo,
and then from there on going into the Los Angeles Olympics.
So it's a huge challenge, but he's getting there quicker than these blokes that I'm talking about.
We'll see what he can do by the end of the year.
I love listening to the encyclopedic knowledge that comes out of you.
You haven't got a note in front of you and that stuff's just off the top of your head,
dates and ages and people's birthdays.
And it's part of your genius is that it just, it comes out so freely.
I'll ask you this question.
If we said to you, Macca, this is your last sporting event you're going to go to,
and you've got so much love for horse racing and football and athletics and the Olympic Games.
Is there one that if you could go to just one more,
what would you choose?
It'll be the Olympics.
It'll be sitting in the athletic stadium.
That's, for me, the ultimate.
And that includes Melbourne Cups and whatever's in, you know, I love racing.
You know, absolutely adore it.
The first five minutes of the AFL Grand Final.
You just want the last five to be as good.
So, you know, the Bulldogs Sydney 2016, it doesn't get much better than that.
Now, I'm talking to somebody.
I'm talking to somebody who's invested in it because it was, you know,
Dennis Committee's last call and all that.
So, that sort of stuff is precious.
But for me, it's the Olympics.
Now, I say that to us without having called a World Cup final in soccer
and not calling a Boxing Day test.
So, you know, there are other things, but for me, it's the Olympic Games.
And within the Olympic Games, it's athletics.
It doesn't get, for me, any bigger than that.
And when you think about the 100 metres,
or the marathon, I mean, the challenge of both.
But the 100 metres, not everyone,
but nearly the whole world can put on a pair of shoes and run.
So, if you're the fastest woman or man in the world over 100 metres,
that's the heavyweight championship of the world, in my opinion.
And how do you get a tiny island like Jamaica that's just as random as that is,
that incredible sprinting DNA that comes out of that part of the world?
I mean, how does that happen?
That doesn't normally happen.
Well, it's genetic, it must be.
But it's also what's happened before.
And those that have guided, you know, Don Quarry was actually in the 1950s,
48s and 50s, where they had some incredible,
Herb McKinley and George Roden,
the first of the great Jamaican runners, to be honest.
And then Don Quarry in the 1970s, 1976, he won the 200 metres in Montreal.
So, they've had that to look at.
And then, of course, Shelly Ann Fraser-Price and Bolt.
You better think about Botswana.
So, Tabogo, let's say Tabogo's running tomorrow night.
So, he's the 200-metre Olympic champion at 21 years of age.
He's a world junior record holder at 100 metres.
Two and a half million people in Botswana.
Two and a half million people.
Half of New Zealand.
How does that happen?
And the Botswanan men's 4x400 metre team got beaten by one-tenth of a second
at the end of that race.
How does that happen?
Two and a half million people.
So, it's really interesting, isn't it?
There's no rules in a way.
So, Tabogo and his group are going to create a legend.
And that's what we're hoping, you know, maybe that GAL can create luck
for those to follow.
But at the moment, track and field right here in Australia
is going through one of the most exciting times.
The most exciting time I can remember in my lifetime.
And GAL could be…
It's a lot to ask of a 17-year-old, but he could be.
Maggie, I want to go back.
You mentioned your beautiful wife, Annie, and the family life.
And you've got such a great, close connection.
You work together and I've had the pleasure of working with Sam,
who's doing a great job carving out his own media career.
And Alex is doing the same.
How have you been able to balance this great passion of yours to travel
and be on planes and family life?
How did you make that work?
I've had a wife who's been very giving.
And that's the truth.
Because I've been away a lot, Darcy.
And I lived in Adelaide for…
We went back to Adelaide at the end of 1999.
And that was for family reasons.
And so, that meant a lot of travel.
And it meant that Annie had to sacrifice a lot of her career.
Children were young.
Sacrifices had to be made.
And it's only now when I look back, Darcy,
and think about it even more now, how much she gave up
and how much support she's been given.
So, it's a team effort.
So, yeah, we do work closely together.
I rely on her so much.
Hopefully, I help her as well.
So, I've been fortunate.
And I think Annie probably also, as I said,
she's sacrificed a lot.
She realised early on how important it was for me
and how much of my life it is.
And it's who I am, to be honest.
You know, I wanted to be…
I wanted to call the Melbourne Cup when I was five
and nothing's changed.
It's a bit odd and I'm probably a bit blinkered.
She understands what makes me tick, I think.
We all are born different.
As we grow, the experiences we have
develop into outlooks uniquely our own.
Charting our life's course.
No one sees an ideal.
No one sees a career, opinion or opportunity like you.
And no one sees you like VU.
Victoria University.
My name's Gabrielle.
I'm studying law.
What made me want to get into law is,
I guess, the reward you get after.
The feelings that you get for helping other people.
I'm really passionate about making sure that people have that voice,
especially for people that don't feel like they can be heard.
And that's something that's really important to me.
I have quite deep personal values.
So, it was really important to me to find a university
that aligns with those values.
And VU's that for me.
At Alita, our signature program, Alita Connect,
is something we're really passionate and proud of.
We bring together groups of five to six people
around the globe from diverse backgrounds.
Sport, industry, social venture and the arts.
We come together to learn, to connect and to collaborate.
Liz Ellis, Australian netball icon and television presenter.
The thing that I've loved about it is,
not just the meetings that we have with our group,
it's the thinking that you do for days and days afterwards.
Someone says something and it sparks a thought.
And within my sport and within women's sport,
I'm just someone who I try to lead
by keeping people talking about the issues.
There's times when I think,
the person I'm trying to convince is not listening to me.
It actually got me thinking about,
this is how I need to address my communication with them.
So, it was, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed it.
Going back to, you was a five-year-old.
You grew up in Adelaide.
You grew up in Adelaide.
You grew up in Adelaide.
You grew up in Adelaide.
You grew up in Adelaide.
You grew up in Adelaide.
You grew up in Adelaide.
As an accountant, as I said before,
school wasn't necessarily easy for you.
And then you work at telecom for five years.
What advice would you,
young people about to start that journey,
it's not as though it was just all laid out for you.
What advice do you give young people
that want to follow something they love?
Because my dream was to be a race caller.
Stroke sports broadcaster.
And, you know, the three things to ask I really wanted to do
Well, call the Melbourne Cup.
Play league footy and test cricket.
You know, one out of three.
But, look, there were times in my middle of my teenage years
and late teenage years that I lost the dream.
I thought it was impossible.
You know, telecom for five years.
You know, played a bit of footy and cricket and all those things.
But I absolutely thought there was no chance.
And, look, it's too long a story today,
but there was just an unbelievable chance happening
that gave me an opportunity.
And from that, everything's flowed.
But I'd prepared for it.
I'd practised calling as a young kid.
So I think for anyone that has a dream,
prepare for it in a way so when an opportunity arises,
you can actually walk through the figuratively door
and take advantage of that.
So don't give the dream up and don't give up the practising
and the preparation in a way.
It might lead to nothing,
but that chance happening,
then you can take advantage.
You've got to be able to supply something.
You've got to be able to give something
when you give that opportunity.
It's either got to be a brilliant call,
a great voice or some knowledge.
So you can't just walk in thinking that people owe you something.
You've got to be able to give them something in return.
And then you're off and running.
Mac, I love this opportunity to sit down
from incredible people like you.
And we're saying that success leaves clues.
Your passion's so clear.
And you just described that you were ready
when the door opened.
And that chance meaning.
And we see these patterns
of what great leadership looks like.
I want to ask this idea
in the world we're in with a leader
that you've got to fill your own cup up first
before you can be any good for anyone else.
What do you do to fill your cup up?
It's tricky because you don't really think about it too much.
But this is what I do.
I make sure that I'm prepared
to do absolutely the best performance I can do,
whether it be calling a football match
Talking at a production meeting or whatever.
Now, that doesn't mean that I'm, you know,
under the whip all the time.
But it just means that I know that
if I can't do a really good job,
then those people around me will look at that.
And maybe, look, I like to lead us.
So I guess I'll get to the core of it.
You know, you talk about going into a broadcast box
and things like that.
I've been in a position where I've been generally the host.
I've been experienced.
I've had the veteran,
whatever it might be.
It wasn't always that way, obviously,
because, you know, going through the ranks myself.
So when a young caller like yourself
or whoever it might be that comes in,
Matthew Richardson or whoever,
I've often been there when ex-footballers
or young broadcasters are starting.
So I do think to myself,
OK, what is it that I would like to do
to help these people?
And for me, the first most important thing
is that they look up to me
and think that I'm good.
They look up to me and think that I'm
a good person and a good broadcaster.
And after that, everything flows in a way.
And then you go about sharing the load,
sharing the responsibilities
and making sure that everybody has a voice
and that everybody is playing a role
that suits the telecast in this instance,
but also plays to their strengths.
We've all got different things
So one of the things that I am consistent with
is if, let's say it's Richo,
young Richo, Matthew Richardson,
you'd say to Richo,
I want you to come here with three things
that are yours for the telecast.
They're not mine.
They're not Dennis's.
They're yours, Richo.
Come here with three authentic things
and just think about them
and talk about them pre-match
and then make sure that you're going to
make sure during the call
that you cover them off at some stage,
even if they're not as relevant
as they were at the start of the match.
So you've got a game plan
and the game plan is yours, not mine.
So it's empowering them.
When I started doing that or thinking that,
I didn't think that as being a leader.
I just thought that
because it was the right thing for them.
That's how I thought.
So that's a really simple way
of talking about some leadership
in the role as a,
veteran sports broadcaster.
And you won't remember this,
but you did that for me.
My first game on television was with you.
It might've been in Tassie.
It was a Bulldogs game
and they rostered me on
and I'd called on radio,
but you're overwhelmingly nervous
and you did exactly that.
I think you said,
take the first bounce.
I'm going to give you the space.
I'm going to let you come in.
And then at quarter time,
you came in and you said,
you're fine, mate.
You're going to be fine.
And just the reassurance
of having someone alongside you was,
the old school was sort of,
hey, young fella,
earn your stripes
and we'll make life hard for you.
So I think that's a great gift
that you've passed on to people.
And I think you can see that team element
and it stays with people.
You know, when people help you at the start,
You know, you remember that for life.
I've always felt that
the better the people around you,
the better you are.
I've learned from everyone, Darcy.
I do remember that day.
And I reckon I would have picked
two or three things up from you that day
that probably improved me.
And this sounds weird
and people are saying
you're being disingenuous.
I've never worked on anything
where I haven't picked up something.
Now, it doesn't mean you're going to use it,
but it gets into your mind
and gives you a different way
of looking at things.
So you learn from everybody.
But as I said earlier,
the better people are around you,
the better you become as well.
And what you wouldn't have realised that day,
was that I was not as nervous as you,
but I was nervous.
Not for you, but for me.
So every time I do anything,
there's an anxiety.
There's a fear of failing
and there's a fear of not doing well.
I'll have it tomorrow night with the athletics.
I have it every time I do anything.
So I was nervous as you were,
but maybe not quite.
Probably not that level,
but I'm fascinated at 71
and I've done it.
I've done it all.
You still feel that performance pressure.
The most comfortable I am
are when the headsets are on
and it's started.
And then it's a matter of working
and thinking and enjoying.
But up until that point,
that first voiceover,
you know what it's like.
Every time I do the races on a Saturday,
one minute to 12,
what I try and do to us is
make sense of it all.
What am I trying to achieve in the first minute?
Clarity is so important.
It is so important.
Don't get muddled.
If there's a big thing to say,
Don't say it twice.
Work with the pitchers.
Work with your co-hosts.
So just have a real understanding
of what the producer
is wanting to do.
What they're wanting from you
and what the audience
might be expecting.
So that calms me a bit.
And then off you go
and then you settle in.
And then I think to myself,
and this is what I say to a lot of people
and some people come
even much rawer than you would ask
because you had some experience.
They're thrown in the deep end.
And I'll say to them,
do you know anything about athletics?
Knowing that, you know,
Commonwealth Games gold medalist.
Because you know what you're doing.
And that's what I have to say to myself.
I have to say to myself,
you've done the homework.
I'll give you an example.
It was in the middle of the Olympics,
I'd hosted the first week.
I'd called a couple of other things.
I'd called four nights of athletics
or three nights of athletics in days.
That's as big a week in your life
I'm fully warmed up to us.
That Monday morning,
I knew it was different.
we get to the track.
There's four or five
unbelievable races already.
I mean, stuff that,
Out they walk for the women's
My mouth goes dry completely.
I feel a sense of,
And I absolutely thought to myself,
you know what you're doing.
Try and take away that dryness.
And I actually talked myself into it.
Not a perfect call.
A perfect performance.
And a good call to go with a perfect performance.
But I realized that I was a bit overwhelmed.
someone that had been to a lot of Olympics.
Had called a lot of races that week.
So it's interesting,
But I was able to bring myself to a point
to do a reasonable job.
And you had that experience before?
people might say,
you've picked the one big race.
That's the only race.
There've been other times,
women's 100 final,
But there's something about the men's 100 final
it's not being gender.
I hate to do it because the women's 100 final
is just as important.
But the men's 100 final does bring out
something else in me.
in the broadcaster.
Often it's because it's Bolt or Lewis
and it's historic.
But it's also tricky because it's quick.
but Freeman's the only one that that's happened
And it's really interesting.
And I've been broadcasting now for 40 years.
One of the great moments of all time.
the world's changing.
Is there one thing that's worked for you
in what you've done that you will never change?
About the way I go about it?
we talked about the prep.
It's also the respect for what you're doing
and the privilege.
You don't take it for granted.
it doesn't mean you can't be critical
criticism is part of what we do.
But it's that whole understanding of,
And what we're seeing,
people would give their eye teeth
to have the same seat as us
or even be at the venue.
But what hasn't changed
is my respect for what I'm doing.
We're entertainers.
That's what we are.
We're not surgeons.
It's not life or death.
But we all do it in our own way.
And what I've tried to be,
what hasn't changed
I've tried to be the best,
the best Bruce I can be.
And this is the other thing
I've spoken to young ones over the years.
Don't be the second or third best dentist committee.
You be the best ex.
And that's what I've tried to be.
there's a bit about me,
there's quite a bit.
There's some of my things I do drive me mad.
you live and die by it.
And I'm not going to change.
It's a pretty good version,
I don't think you'd change it at all.
has there been a visionary leader in the world
that you've also followed a bit?
You've always been authentically you,
And we did see a lot of people wanting to be you
or wanting to be Dennis.
That's a pretty hard act to follow.
Has there been a leader that you've followed the path of?
in a broadcasting sense,
for those that don't know,
Bill Collins was a race caller in Melbourne
from the late 1940s.
and I grew up to us listening to him.
And he was absolutely,
the most outstanding broadcaster of any sport I'd ever heard.
now you've heard a lot of people since.
I loved his style.
I loved his accuracy.
And I liked the entertaining way he did it.
So I modelled myself really on Bill.
I didn't want to call the Melbourne Cup.
I wanted to be Bill.
and I wrote to him when I was 11 from Adelaide.
Mum wrote the letter probably.
I wrote the letter.
Mum told me what to say.
And then I got to meet him,
and work with him a bit.
So through a broadcasting sense,
there were people like Bill Collins,
cricket commentators,
football commentators in Adelaide,
Max Hall and Tom Warhurst,
that your father would have known,
David Darcy would have known well.
and then more and more contemporaries,
people like Tim Lane,
that I've looked up to over the years.
you're sort of the same age almost,
so there's been a lot of international broadcasters
like Bob Costas and Al Michaels
and those people who I've sort of got to know a bit
So there's been a lot of that I've looked at
and heard and feel leagued,
So there's a long list.
how they go about it
and how they do it
and their timing.
So you do pick up things.
So on-air people,
the young callers,
We ran into one in the,
Howie coming in here today.
They all do it differently,
but they've all got something.
there's been a lot on-air.
There's a few off-air
that have paved a way for me
decision-making attitude.
So there's been quite a few people.
You mentioned your inherent curiosity earlier.
How does that show up for you?
And how do you overlay that
But the more you know about anything,
the more interesting it becomes.
And this is work and non-work.
So one of the problems I've got,
if I dip my toe in the water,
I can go down rabbit holes.
and sometimes it takes a long time to get out.
So I've got to be careful.
how much I obsess about James Bond movies.
Or Tom Waits singing.
Leonard Cohen or whatever.
So I've got to be careful
that I don't become,
because then I won't have time for any of the others.
So that's the style of person I am.
So you can get lost in Leonard Cohen.
I can get lost in anything
and have to pull myself out.
and that's what I do with my job
so the curiosity is,
a very young age.
Dylan Thomas's poetry,
I was probably more interested in the fact
that he died at 39
But what made him tick
as much about the words that he wrote,
named himself after him and all those things.
So those little things as you're growing up,
they stay with you,
You're still being influenced,
but early influences are forever.
And they're richer and deeper.
And they're with you for the rest of your life.
they're part of who you become.
And whether they are your parents
who guided you in a certain way
or somebody you listened to or read
and they lifted you
and made you feel
like you're going to a place
that's hard to get to
and you never want to leave,
they're with you forever.
We're a bit obsessed
about this idea of collaboration
and what we're trying to achieve in a leader
and connecting people around the globe.
Have you got an example
of a great collaboration in your life?
there are individual people
that I might go to for advice.
There's people that you won't know.
There was one man particularly
his name was Fred Jones,
he's no longer with us.
And he really helped me a lot
just through his knowledge,
but also his guidance
in the right way about doing things.
I had the most brilliant father,
He was like a bit of a second father for me.
And he was later in my life.
I think every young man
and every young woman
away from their parents at times
to be a strong force in their life
when you're in your teens
because you don't want to hear
mum and dad sometimes.
It's just the way it is.
So Freddie did that for me.
How'd you find him?
Through sports broadcasting
and through racing
and just his knowledge.
in a more recent sense,
so I'll say a couple of names
that you will know.
Dennis had a big influence on me.
He doesn't know it,
has had a big influence on me.
I always thought that Lee
could get to the bottom line
quicker than anyone I've ever met.
He's the most pragmatic person
and you're smiling
because you know.
here's an example.
Channel 7 came to me
will you do the opener
for the grand final?
Is it the right thing to do?
And I talked to Annie
so I went back to the people at 7
and you know who they are,
because Louie had left,
Chris Jones and Gary O'Keefe.
And then Gary rang me
on a Monday night
I'd like you not only to do that,
but be involved on grand final day,
but actually host the two prelim finals.
I didn't sleep that night.
I'm not up to it.
I haven't seen enough football.
I haven't called for four years.
Hosting's different.
I don't think I can do it.
people find that mind blowing.
And this is a hundred percent.
someone that's done everything you've done,
you do that with your eyes closed.
And you didn't sleep.
So I went and I was lucky I was in Melbourne
for something else
and I saw Gary the next day
and he sort of nearly talked me into it.
So I went and spoke to two people besides Annie.
One was Lee Matthews
do you think this is the right thing to do?
I want you to think about it.
And the other was Rob Chapman.
Rob Chapman's a former.
Chamber of the Crows.
I've only got to know really well
in the last few years
and someone I admire.
They were the only two people I asked.
be the last time they ask you.
nothing wrong with you doing that.
So there's two examples
of people that I respect
that's why I did it
because they said yes
and I had the support of Annie.
It's value in your life,
even with all your experience
I was in that broadcast,
it was a no-brainer.
of course you're going to do it.
and I just saw that
as a joyful thing
but I wouldn't have known
that you would have taken the time out
some sounding boards
and thought about it.
it would have been
pick up the phone
I agonized over it.
when I walked into the SCG
it was the first time
I felt like I was home.
I just felt right.
it's very different
not calling obviously
I felt like I contributed
in a way that was
I didn't want to be
a non-contributor.
I wanted to be able
to bring something.
I played my role.
I wasn't at centre-half forward.
in the forward pocket
of front and centres
and Dennis would have
been proud of me.
A couple of front and centres.
You've been centre-half forward
for a number of decades.
the idea of communicating
clearly is something
great people have
and it's been your whole life,
how you communicate.
How do you break it down?
what's the essence
of great communication
if you're going to
15 minute address
So you think to yourself,
what's important for them?
what might they take away?
So it's horses for courses.
So you construct,
I always believe in a,
and a good ending.
and you don't necessarily
do things chronologically.
so you make it interesting.
It's like writing a novel.
So a 15 minute short story.
for something like that.
three or four other broadcasters
it's throwing down a few ideas
at the start of the,
but not making sure
says what you want them to say.
They say what they want to say.
and I'll do this on purpose.
you might ask three or four questions
to your co-commentator,
because he prepared
very differently to me,
to your colour commentators,
just to prick them a bit,
how switched on they are
and make sure they're right,
but also to empower them
that starts at Cotelicus
has to bring something to them.
that's the way I go about it.
So clarity is really important
a speech or some words
that are resonating
because they're of interest,
because they are,
the people you're talking to
So there's a different speech
you might talk to
and there's a different message,
but there's also a message of
there's no complete right way.
There's your way.
And if you go about your way
in the best possible way
and you're ethical
and you're honest,
which goes with the ethics
and you're doing a job
that you're proud of,
So there's no absolute
There's bits of everything
that are of value.
so that's the way I guess
I've gone about my life.
Is that, you know,
but everybody's got something to offer
and that might be,
wow, didn't think of that.
Yeah, don't really agree with it,
but I see where you're coming from
yeah, I wish I thought of that.
Ethical and honest,
I think if I was going to
put a couple of words
alongside Bruce McIverney,
they would be right
at the top of the tree
and everything that you do
and everything in your life.
Mac, who's been the greatest leader
It's a toss up between mum and dad
and Annie, I think.
and you might say,
oh, you're just saying that.
I had parents that were far from perfect,
Both left school at 13.
saddest day of her life
was when she left school.
She loved education.
My father went to the war,
came back and studied.
We had the tiniest little house
and got his accountancy.
He was a telegraph messenger at 13.
I've got a sister and a brother
that I look up to,
because I rely on her so much
and I trust her judgment
and she's got my back.
So there's lots of others,
but that'll do, Das.
I love it when people,
had a family upbringing like yours
and a partner like yours.
It's an obvious place to go, isn't it?
And you're probably pretty lucky in life,
we all know what life's about.
You've got a beautiful family yourself
and you had a wonderful father and mother.
So I know how you think about yours.
So that's what so much is about.
But you know what?
How lucky are we?
Because not everyone has that
everyone has to find people
that they can trust
and share things with.
Sharing's so important.
I live a lot of my life, Das,
in my office or whatever,
And when you get to share things,
it makes it all worth it.
Final question before I let you go.
Again, the spirit of collaboration.
You've worked with
incredible people around the globe
and you've had these
boys' own annual experiences.
Has there been one person
in any of your passions, Mac,
it might be your love of music
you shared before
God, I'd love to have collaborated
a name that springs to mind?
Gee, that's a good question.
I'd put it a hard way.
Look, I would love to have
been at a training session
with Muhammad Ali
when he was Cassius Clay
and he was dreaming the dream
that he could be the best in the world
and doing the hard yards
quietly in the gym.
Oh, I'd love to have seen that man.
That's, that'll do.
That is a great note to finish on
and an image that,
that'll stay with me for the day, Mac.
It's been a great pleasure
to have been able to
spend some time with you today
but to have known you in the past
and it's an incredible story.
A lot more chapters to write out.
You look healthy and happy
and thanks for joining me today.
It's been a pleasure, Dars.