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Bft Ceo Richard Burnet_ Navigating Life_S Hurdles And Challenges Ahead Of Creating A Global Phenomen

this week's episode of the empowering leaders podcast is with richard burnett the global ceo

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Published 9 days agoDuration: 2:021893 timestamps

1893 timestamps

this week's episode of the empowering leaders podcast is with richard burnett the global ceo

and director of body fit training one of the most successful businesses in australia at the moment

over 600 franchises sold around the globe rich and his wife danielle have been open enough to

share with us the extraordinary story of sebastian and charlie they're two young boys born with one

of the rarest genetic conditions in the world tragically was a life-shortening illness and

the way that they're able to cope and deal with a family is a story that is an incredible one to

understand rich has gone on to have incredible success with body fit train he talks a lot about

the importance of curiosity in his own personal and professional growth also talks about the role

of collaboration with others and how it's allowed him to learn from different leaders and different

perspectives he also mentions the rock as the one person in the world he'd like to collaborate with

on a business that is expanding around the globe as we speak rich burnett is part of the leader

connect program love you to

you

check it out head to a leader collective.com and check out our signature program and leader

connect where we bring together inspirational people like rich from different backgrounds to

learn to connect and to collaborate together it's an expanding community around the globe

and we love people like rich who are open enough to share their life experiences to connect with

each other and the day-to-day learning that comes from these groups we think is something

that's really fascinating and worth having a look at we'd love you to book a discovery call

and check it out head to a leader collective.com rich's group includes people like laura

henshaw is an incredible ceo at keep it cleaner lydia lassler who's doing amazing things in

latinland an olympic gold medalist ken hinkley from port adelaide anthony seabold an nrl coach of

great repute and john safanas who's done amazing things in the business world but you don't have to

be an olympic gold medalist to be part of leader connect just book a call and we'd love to

collaborate with you today huge thanks to jason nicholas and his team at temper for enabling

conversations like this with richard burnett today we really appreciate their support great leaders

understand the importance of the team and we'll see you next week

importance of sleep and investing in a mattress from temper is a mattress like no other and will

be a life-changing decision richard burnett is a global ceo and director of body fit training with

over 600 franchises sold across australia new zealand singapore the uk the us and expansion

plans underway around the world bft is an internationally recognized fitness brand success

story rich's personal path to this success has had more than its fair share of hurdles and life

challenges rich and his wife danielle's first

two boys sebastian and charlie were born with one of the rarest genetic conditions in the world

multiple sulfur taste deficiency the condition tragically saw sebastian and charlie pass away

before their teenage years rich transitioning away from his senior corporate roles with bp

golf australia and the afl to pursue an entrepreneurial path the sliding door moment

saw rich literally look across the street to see a gym that he would ultimately end up partnering

with to create an extraordinary australian business success story rich it's great to see i know you

don't tell this story too often but i'm sure you'll see it in the future and i'm sure you'll

see it in the future and so i feel really privileged that you've taken the time to do it

today thanks dust great to be here if i could rich and i know this is uh and i found it emotional

actually just doing the research again but i can't begin to imagine what you and danielle have been

through losing your two boys can you put into context just how rare a condition it was that

sebastian and charlie had and and how did you find a way to cope it's rare um and yeah the two

two parts to that question obviously the the

and the the heartache that came with um the tragedy that it was and then also the coping

bit so yeah i guess i'll start with sort of how rare it is just to put in context it it was um

no one in australia at the time um had exposure to it i think there might have been a a couple

kids um who died of the the disease in the the 80s or 90s um but it we were told they were

somewhere around the 41st or something like that and i think that's where it came from and i think

we understand the circumstances and so it's it's such a huge it's such a big thing that's

happening and one of the um companies that we've been working with are um uh so we've been working

with blue sky and it's a really big uh it's a big one and instead of having government

beans to provide Jewish women with um mental health benefits to women and making sure that

uh and Видal was living with us um nursing women you know and if there was a lot of い

and by just like the cold out the country which um it there's there's lots of a lot of

of i saw it for a while and i think they're really exciting with it at the same time as well

said it to us when when the boys were diagnosed was that if there was four mcgs full of women and i

i had the choice to to marry one of them um it's literally those odds so one in 400 men and the other

one in 400,000 chance that you're going to sit next to or marry the wrong one, in inverted

commas.

And then from that, you've still, because it's a recessive disease, you've still only

got a one in four chance every time you have a baby that that baby will have the disease.

So three in four times, you won't actually even know that you've had the disease in your

family.

And Danielle and I certainly didn't know, and we're both what's called unaffected carriers.

So that gets the 400,000, obviously, times the four, the one in four chance to get you

up to the one in a one and a half million chance kind of thing.

So yeah, incredibly rare disease and yeah, very, very sad and still.

Still, still hurts to be honest.

And you find out with Sebastian, you had some concerns when he was 12 months of age that

he was falling over a lot.

Danielle's pregnant with Charlie and, and, you know, you want to try and protect your

concerns while she's pregnant and then you find out, then you have to sit there and wait

the one in four chance on Charlie.

I can't even begin to imagine that day of when you sat down in the doctor's clinic again.

Yeah, that was, that was a tough one because.

Sebastian was, you know, we're over in New York, born in New York.

He was, you know, the dream baby.

We thought, you know, a little US citizen growing up and all this sort of exciting stuff

for his future and to see him sort of degenerate after about 12 months or so was hard.

But the signs were there because we saw him, he was able to walk a little bit, but then

he just kept on falling over and falling over.

He was never really able to talk at all.

He said data once or twice, which is one of the happiest moments ever in my life.

To hear him say those words, they were the only words he ever spoke, but the decline

was there.

So we had a lot of the testing with him and, and saw that there was something wrong.

So when he was diagnosed, of course, to hear the words that it was terminal and that he,

you know, he wouldn't live very long were absolutely heartbreaking.

We had Charlie sitting there and he was this bright, bubbly little baby that was only a

few months old, but just so alert, so active, so alive.

And so to your point.

We thought, well, even though we got them both tested, once we heard Sebastian's result,

we just couldn't bring ourselves to asking the question whether Charlie was affected

or not, but had in our mind that he wouldn't be because he was just so alert, so bubbly

and, you know, rolling around on the floor, just so confident.

We thought there's no way he's got the disease because it looked very different from Sebastian

who was a lot slower in some of his sort of skill development.

Um, so yeah, eventually once four months after three or four months after we found out

about Sebastian, we, we, um, got the, got the nerve to, to find out, um, from the doctors

what position Charlie was and, and that you're right to ask if there was one moment in our

lives where we sort of literally felt that the end of the earth was going to happen.

It was then when we were back in the Royal Children's back in the same damn room with

the doctor who said, you're not going to believe this.

But.

But Charlie's also got the disease and, um, he sent the bloods to Adelaide three or four

times and yelled at them over the phone to double, triple check it because he could not

believe that it could happen to us twice given that the odds of it all.

So that was just this kick in the guts like I've never had in my life before.

And we just thought, you know, it was hard not to think then there's nothing worse that

could happen in your life.

And the doctor was in tears himself.

Yeah.

The doctor was.

The nurse was incredibly upset that the nurse was there upset.

We were just in absolute, uh, absolute disbelief and, um, couldn't, couldn't fathom how this

had happened to us.

And it's a, when I say us, it's not a well with me thing, but this whole space of the

boys being sick and having a disability from birth and eventually, um, passing away at

Charlie two years ago, actually.

Um, the other day was his, his second anniversary of his passing and Sebastian a couple of years

before that, but that, that whole notion of growing up with a disability for me had

been so foreign because I hadn't been exposed to it in, in my lifetime.

We didn't have family or close friends with kids with disabilities.

And I thought it was, I always thought it was something that was, I don't want to say

shameful, but something that was, um, wrong, innately wrong with, um, uh, someone's makeup

or, or the way they, they were.

And it was almost like it was avoidable to some degree.

And, and that's how naive I was around just that the fact that nearly all disabilities

are completely due to luck, completely random, completely genetic.

Um, through no fault of anyone's.

And, um, some people, you know, get a hand that's, uh, drawn with, uh, that the news

that, that we had that you, you just, and now all of a sudden living a life that was

completely unexpected and your, your dreams and hopes of a shattered, but, and the upside

you think, well, this is so rare.

This is so heartbreaking.

Um.

Well, how is it going to be for the boys?

And then you turn it around into, well, how lucky are we that we have the chance to give

these boys such a, an awesome, precious life, um, and, and maybe, you know, God's been the

one who's actually been smiling on us saying that, um, you know, I, I trust you guys to,

to look after these boys, um, and that you are going to give them the best life they

can.

Yeah.

That's a great perspective, Rich.

And, uh, yeah, as I said, I, I'm, I'm sure I couldn't have coped, I just can't imagine,

uh, doing that.

A, a beautiful part of the story is that you and Danielle choose through IVF, you can skip

that gene, and, um, you got two beautiful kids, uh, Christian and, and Taylor, and for

both of them, they then live through that experience too.

How has that shaped them, do you think?

Yeah, well, so much of what we went through comes down to, well, okay, if that's going

to happen, the boys are going to pass away.

What, what happens?

what hope have you got?

And you're right, so lucky to have IVF.

You know, just cheesy for IVF.

Some people have knocked it in the past.

I remember when IVF, there used to be decades ago so many negative comments about it

and it is an absolute godsend for thousands and thousands and thousands of people

every single month in Australia and around the world.

And for us, we were incredibly lucky to be able to use modern medicine to screen out the disease,

to have Taylor and Christian, and that provided hope.

That's essentially what it did for our family.

It was like, well, are we going to sit here and get through this focusing on only Sebastian and Charlie

or are we going to bring other life into the family and try to have hope that this is going to be

somewhat normal in a weird way, but also a completely unique experience to have our kids

who've lost two older brothers, who have seen that disabilities aren't scary,

which is what I originally thought.

You know, they're not frightening.

They're something that's incredibly special.

And for them to have the soft hearts that they've got now and the resilience that they've got

and the empathy towards kids is just amazing.

And I'll never forget Christian and Taylor first seeing their main school,

their mainstream school that they were going to in primary schools.

And they were...

I'm amazed that there weren't all these wheelchairs going around everywhere

because the only schools they'd seen ever were Sebastian and Charlie's schools

that we used to send them to where there were wheelchairs and disability stuff.

And, you know, then they saw these mainstream schools and that was rare for them.

So their norm was kids with disabilities and they're so comfortable in that space,

which is, you know, shame on me.

I never was because I never had that opportunity.

Yeah, it's incredible, wasn't it?

Do you feel like Sebastian and Charlie live on in a lot of ways?

Do you feel like Sebastian and Charlie live on in a lot of ways through Taylor and Christian?

Is that a sense you've got or...?

Yeah, absolutely.

We worried us, to be honest, that especially Christian will forget Sebastian

because he was young when Sebastian passed away.

He remembers Charlie.

It was Charlie's, as I said, he's passing only a couple of days ago, the anniversary,

and we all sat around and watched some video and some photos on the TV at home together

and with some music in the background and had a good cry.

Just for the kids to see them in the photos with the boys

and to remember how special they were,

I think we need to continue to do that to remind them

before they get swept up in the everyday sort of living.

But there's unquestionably traits in both kids that we know are solely and utterly

due to our boys and the legacy that they've left.

And hopefully people see that in Danielle and I as well,

you know, that we've changed.

And that the type of people we are is different because of the experience we've had.

Yeah, and in what way, Rich, do you feel like you and Danielle have changed?

I think, for a start, empathy and understanding of people and where they're from.

And, you know, mate, so often we used to think, well, geez, this is shocking for us.

But we would remind ourselves that there are people in a lot worse situations.

And...

So that's number one, that there are people out there.

No matter how bad we thought we had it, a lot of people have it a lot worse.

You know, they might lose kids without having the chance to say goodbye.

You know, we had 12 years for both of them to say goodbye

and to be prepared for the fact that they would pass away.

Some people don't have that chance.

And so there's empathy.

There's, I think, just an appreciation of living every day

and making those days special and loving.

Your kids, like there is no tomorrow, because you just don't get that opportunity.

You know, kids grow up.

Your kids are growing up and they're moving out now.

And I've still got some time with Taylor and Christian.

But to have that acknowledgement of family and the importance of family

and how special family is, is another way that I think we've changed.

And, yeah, work's important.

But to get that balance is so cliched but so hard to do.

But it's...

It's absolutely the right thing to do and you've just got to do it.

And I love seeing dads from the local primary school now

just be so present and so involved in their kids' lives.

And 10 years ago, you know, you wouldn't even see that.

You wouldn't see dads rock up to kids swimming, you know,

into school swimming meets at 12 o'clock on a Wednesday afternoon.

There's no way.

But now you rock up and half of them are dads.

It's just brilliant.

So to instill that on and shake up a lot of my mates who are workaholics

who took a bit of a...

had a bit of a check there and adjusted their life was pretty cool as well.

Someone said to me the other day that by the time your child, you know,

turns 18 and becomes an adult, you've spent 93% of the time

that you're going to spend with them on average for the rest of their life

just by the nature of how intense the first 18 years are

and they move out of home.

And it's...

I don't know how accurate that is but it's pretty profound

when you think about it.

And to your point, you experienced that in the most...

intense way.

But it's a reminder, isn't it, to all of us

that you get that chance in that period of time.

You don't want to waste it.

Richard, I want to move on.

Life has to continue even when you've got, you know,

Sebastian and Charlie and all of the challenges

and the joy and everything in the mix.

But you're working really successfully in the corporate space

and you had senior high-profile roles in the AFL industry

and the golf industry, as I said in the introduction.

You transition away from that.

What was...

What was the motivation to want to head down the entrepreneurial path?

I think it was a slow adjustment.

It started with the realisation when I was at BP

when we were living in New York

that I wanted to get into that fitness space and sports space.

So that was one big change for me, 12 years, big corporate BP

to, you know, Golf Australia and the Essendon Footy Club

and the Giants where you've got, you know, not 100,000 staff

but literally...

literally 100.

From those roles, that cemented for me that the jobs

that I wanted to have for the rest of my life

were where not only was I passionate about the people

because I loved the people at BP

and the development opportunities that I had there

and the responsibilities that I was given as a graduate trainee

in the early days right through New York

were something that I'll never forget.

But I also wanted to be passionate about the product

and not just the company and the people.

And that's where the AFL kicked in

because I was incredibly passionate about footy, obviously, and golf.

And then there was a time to say,

OK, well, love the product, love the passion and the people

but can I actually be kind of really selfish

and think how can I enjoy that but doing it on my own

which I'd never been open to

because...

because, you know, Dad was in corporate all of his life

and I'd never really been exposed to sort of small businesses

or people breaking out and doing their own thing too much

and that was very foreign to me.

But I thought, well, if I start small

and had a couple of side hustles

where I had a couple of my own little businesses

saw how that went

and thought, you know what, I can actually do this.

So that was transitioning from the Giants

where I was doing a sort of Tuesday to Thursday commute

which was always only going to be a short-term role for me

given everything from family situation

just to, you know, travel

and you don't want to be away from your family

obviously more than a couple of days a week

if you can help it

to, OK, how can I come back to Melbourne

grab a job equally as passionate

but working for myself.

So I started exploring the fitness landscape

and a few weird things happened

to fast-track that

but one of them was just meeting a couple of people

Tim Schlager, a good mate of ours

who gave me some fantastic advice on gym ownership

and 24-7 gyms

which was all the rage then in sort of 2016, 2017

so I did a lot of research into that model

and then happened to be bumped into Jake Williams

now a guy I'll always be thankful for

who gave me the advice to say

you should look into this brand

called...

called F45

because they're going great guns

I was literally on a plane with him

and he was telling me that

about his involvement with them

and so that was a different model of fitness gyms

that was exploding in Australia

and heading globally as well

so I spent some time looking at that model

and the whole boutique sort of fitness sector as well

and pretty soon

that opened the door for me to think

well, you know, I'm going to do this

then I started to think

well, F45 might be a really smart play

unfortunately though

the Australian landscape was pretty much sold out

of franchises

they'd sold out most of Australia

and a lot of people already

Australians were already looking overseas

and the US was starting to sell out

all the big kind of obvious capital cities

were selling out

fortuitously given we'd lived over there

I knew a bit about the landscape and started researching areas that might not have been

sold out with F45 and Seattle was one of those that really sparked my interest just because

it was demographically the right fit, very affluent, crap, crap weather so people want

to train indoors a lot but then when they are in summer they want to be looking good

because they've only got a few months of summer to really enjoy it and some amazing

corporate facilities there with Amazon and tech companies which meant that there was

this explosion of the right target market so I really explored opportunities in Seattle

with Danielle, we flew over and had a look around and joined up with a couple of Jake's

mates as well as Hamish McLaughlin, a good mate of both of ours.

And Haim was instrumental when I was at the Giants to say, hey Rich, whatever you're doing

going forward, let's do it together.

I really believe in what you can do and I want to back you in whatever you're doing.

If it suits, let's work together which gave me an enormous confidence boost because you

know how smart Haim is.

Full of passion.

Full of passion, yeah.

It's a nice backing, isn't it?

I didn't know that part of the story and whatever you're in, I'm happy to be in your corner.

What a great vote of confidence and that's why I love hearing these stories, isn't it?

A lot of Australians have only seen America as New York, Los Angeles, maybe San Francisco

they're branched out but a lot of us and I include me would never have been to a town

like Seattle so these things don't happen by accident.

You were fully researched based, you were really doing your homework and really drilling

in and so you look at a town like Seattle with the University of Washington and all

of the demographics fitting right.

So you're prepared to open multiple of these sites, how disappointing was that one?

Yeah, that was tough and I won't go into it too much other than to say when our reservation

for 10 territories, five in Seattle, five in LA had the main reservation we had for

Seattle where we were ready to put a lease down on a property and pretty excited about

it when that fell through and was taken away from us.

We decided and I was the driving force.

So it's mainly maybe an I rather than a we but the group of us decided that the values

that we had didn't necessarily sit well with what we're on offer and that we didn't really

want to be part of going forward for the other nine territories just because of the way that

it unfolded.

Then we made a call to really stop that opportunity and so that was a lot of effort and research

into the boutique fitness model in the US.

So we had a lot of experience including Orange Theory and Barry's Boot Camp and F45 and all

that sort of stuff seemingly wasted.

But for the random fact and you kind of mentioned it roughly in your introduction that two weeks

prior to getting that email to say that the deal for this particular territory was off,

I'd happened literally to walk past in River Street, South Yarra, a studio that was run

by Matty Thomas at the time who was an expert.

He was an ex-AFL player.

I poked my head into this thing, the music pumping.

There was this awesome vibe of 36 people going nuts in there and it kind of looked a bit

like a CrossFit or an F45 or it had some elements of Orange Theory, had some screens, had some

awesome vibe, great music as I said.

But it had this strength equipment as well and some rigs and racks and it looked quite

different and unique in its own right.

And I poked my head in and spoke to Matty and said, what's this about?

And he told me what it was.

And we'll talk more about Cam and obviously his influence on me and how he shaped BFT,

I'm sure.

But it turned out it was one of Cam's four at the time test sites, essentially concept

sites that he'd created, this concept that he'd created, this model that he'd started

to sort of fill a void between a CrossFit, if you like, which is quite a hardcore, intense

type training program.

But really one of the main families.

The founders of the whole group training movement globally, the void was that at the

other end of the spectrum, you had a lot of the group-based cardio classes and we would

put your Orange Series and your Barry's Bootcamp and your F45s in that bucket where people

are primarily there to lose weight.

But this had all the strength elements in there as well.

So Cam had found this sort of sweet spot between CrossFit and the other boutiques that he was

really trying to exploit and saw a big opportunity for in the market.

So I'd seen that and gone home and told Danielle that there was a pretty cool thing in South

Yarra that looked pretty good.

And it was actually Danielle who said to me after the F45 thing didn't eventuate that,

what about that thing you saw in River Street?

Why don't you see more about that?

And I thought, you know, that's not a bad idea and called Maddie and then ended up meeting

with Cam.

And long story short, within two months, we'd formed a partnership.

And it was incredibly right time, right place for him and for me.

Him because he obviously had this concept, knew he wanted to grow it, but obviously didn't

have the sales marketing or franchising expertise that was required to grow a brand, but had

this incredibly successful concept and knew he was onto something.

And for me, it was right time, right place because I'd done all of this research.

I knew that that was something that I wanted to get into, fitness.

And when I spoke to Cam, was convinced that although it was a riskier proposition than

say getting a 24-7 gym, the upside potentially, if we got it right, was sort of massive.

So yeah, the fact that within a couple of months, we formed this partnership and of

course, Haim was involved.

So the three of us ended up being shareholders of BFT within just literally a matter of sort

of 60 days.

Great sliding doors moment in life, isn't it?

It's a remarkable.

It's a remarkable story.

Cam Falloon, who crossed over, was a high performance expert in the AFL Geelong and

he was the head of high performance of the Bulldogs when I was there and he went to Port

Adelaide as well.

He's famous for being Princess Di's personal trainer at various stages.

And it's fascinating, isn't it?

When partnerships come together and you get different skill sets combined, I mean, not

all partnerships work out.

For you, we're sitting here now, 600 franchises have been sold.

You've sold the US rights for $60 million in recent times and you've got expansion around

the globe.

It's incredible trajectories, isn't it?

Does it surprise you to think, God, it's just exploded that partnership?

Have you got a reason?

As you explained, it was just the perfect time for the two of you and Haim?

It was.

It was perfect in that way.

And to Cam's credit, there's no way we would have been successful, especially in my ability

to sell the franchises.

If it wasn't for the fact that we'd had these four that Cam had tested, two of them were

brand new, so they were untested, but two had been around for a year or two.

So to have that model and that financial rigor to show potential franchisees that these sites

actually have done well was one of the main things, obviously, that set us up for this

huge growth.

But it wasn't easy.

It took a lot of hard work from September or October 2017 until April 2018 when we first

started selling franchises.

Cam and I are there sitting in a pretty cold warehouse over near his house in Spotswood,

sitting there basically doing everything from the website to the brand, body fit training,

to franchise contracts, to operations manuals.

You know, Cam obviously was heavily involved with everything, but in particular, the programming.

As you mentioned, that's his forte, and that's what separates BFT from every other model that

we've got periodized and progressive training programs that actually get results because

they're scientifically backed.

They're done personally by Cam or his team now in a way that means that they're so realistic,

basically, the opportunity for a weekend warrior to train like you would have Darcy in preseason

with six weeks.

You know, it's a lot of work, but it's a lot of hard work, but it's a lot of hard work.

So the programming element was there, and we really mashed all of that up into something

that we thought was pretty compelling and then went bang in April of 2018 and started

selling.

So yeah, the trajectory was really quick.

We sold a lot off the back of the success of the concept sites, I think, of the positioning

of the brand.

But it's not only the brand, it's the people.

And yes, they bought into Cam and me, the franchisees, but then they also bought into

the team that we quickly established.

And, you know, we've got John Glancy, you could not have a better GM of operations anywhere

in the country, an absolute gun.

And gee, Dunlop started with us early, just an incredibly smart, young, switched on person

who, as our marketing and commerce team, we've been able to do a lot of work with.

Tom's manager was able to shape the tone of voice for BFT and the communications around

that.

And Scotty Nathan, our franchise performance manager, who focused on the growth of the

franchisees in particular, making sure they got good numbers on day one so that they were

set up for success and they could break even and make money from day one because of the

number of members they had from day one.

Those guys were just instrumental in creating this team.

And of course, as we mentioned, Hayme in the background, who has just got an amazing,

amazing ability to have a look at anything that's complex and break it down into something

simple and find solutions.

And if he can't find solutions and can't workshop them with you, he'll know who to call to get

those solutions.

So this awesome team, obviously, Cam and I are at the forefront of it.

But yeah, everyone playing their role was just, I think, one of the main things that

we were so lucky to have that meant that we had this big sort of trajectory until COVID

hit, obviously.

And that was interesting.

It's brilliant, Rich, that you share those names.

I mentioned to you on the way in that something's ringing my ears at the moment around a quote

I read the other day.

Effectively, you don't build something or grow something on your own.

You actually hire great people, collaborate with great people, and then they help you

to grow something.

And you're right.

You in no way could get scale without the incredible people that have done it behind

the scenes.

And that must be satisfying for you to see the people that you've been able to work with.

Yeah, it is.

You're right, Dars, isn't it?

People are just so important in your life, and especially people who, if you're striving

to achieve something normally in a work setting, if you're not all aligned and don't have the

same vision, then you're never going to get anywhere.

And Cam and I were so lucky to have such good quality people around us.

And yeah, we worked our asses off, of course.

But there's always luck in every success story.

And ours was undoubtedly.

The fact that we both came across each other at a random time and both had these complementary

skill sets that me with the franchising, marketing, and sales, and Cam with everything else, and

together strategically, we don't do anything strategically without both of us getting across

it.

And so that partnership has been brilliant.

Yes, of course, every partnership has its challenges, but Cam and I rarely have a cross

word.

And we're always, I think, on the lookout to work with each other and to support each

other.

And particularly stay in our lanes where we need to, to get on with delivering an awesome

product.

But now we've put in a CEO so that we can focus on the global expansion.

And we've got a gun CEO in Dave Aitchison, who is running the ship and focusing on the

250-odd sites that are open in Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, to make sure that

their performance is consistently strong, as it can be, so that we can look at areas

beyond where we're at now to grow.

And I want to go back a little bit here, Rich, and I know you'll take no joy in this, but

I'm interested more in the value.

You felt like the values weren't aligned when you had the sites ready to go and F45, and

you said, you know what, no matter what, I'm moving on here.

I'm not going to go back because our values aren't aligned.

And F45 listed on the US Stock Exchange, it was this huge behemoth that's hit enormous

amount of trouble.

I know you take no joy in that at all.

And the franchisees are going to be there.

And I'm going to take no joy in that at all.

And the franchisees that have struggled as a result of that, and you want the whole

fitness industry to thrive, but you look back, you end up in a legal dispute with F45, which

was sort of contrary to that as well.

It's sort of that overlap's been there, hasn't it?

But do you feel like the values that you guys have brought have been pretty clear and a

part of your success as well?

Yeah, absolutely.

And firstly, I've got to say credit to F45 because they, in so many ways, paved the way

for this model of...

of boutique or group training in Australia.

And the model is really, the principle of it is that it's high margin and low volume,

right?

So it's high margin.

Members are paying sort of 50, 60, 70 plus dollars a week, which is still cheaper than

a personal training session, but they're getting sort of as close to personal training as they

can in a group environment.

And when they're going three or four times a week, which is our average, they're getting

some real value for money.

So, but it is still a...

it's a high margin play with low volume.

So a franchisee will only need sort of 250 members and they're crushing it, making some

really good money.

That's different from every other franchise business around, which is really not every,

but most of them are focused on high turnover, right?

With low margin.

That's your, you know, all your fast foods, your whatever else it is.

And so F45 paved the way for that.

But you're right.

Yeah.

There's no joy in the fact that they are now struggling and there's whatever, 200 odd

for sale in Australia.

And that doesn't help the industry at all.

And in fact, it, you know, raises questions.

Well, okay, you need to be really sure of the quality of the leadership of the franchise

that you're backing, because it's so important that the franchisee, they're backing the people

as much as the brand and every single, it's funny, every single email.

Since the very first time we've sold a franchise where we welcome the franchisee into the BFT

family, I've always written, thank you for trusting in us and the brand, because no,

they're not just buying the brand, they're buying the people, they're buying those people

I mentioned, and they're buying into the fact that they believe in Cam and I and what we're

trying to create.

And I think back to your point, they're buying into those values and the big value that Cam

and I have.

We've had literally from day one, when we worked out, what are we going to do here?

That's going to be special as a value.

We use the word that's thrown around a lot, but fairness, we just knew we had to be fair

and we had to make sure that in every major decision, that three pillars of our business

are considered.

And that is that the member, the member's just got to have a great experience.

They've got to get value for money.

They've got to be getting results.

And they've got to feel like they're onto something special and really, really enjoying

their training at BFT.

Secondly, we've got to consider the franchisee because the model is based on franchising

and they need to make sure that they're making a buck and they're feeling like they're really

invested in the brand and enjoying it.

And one of the reasons I think that it's so popular as a franchise is because you can

actually, as a franchisee, you can see the excitement in members.

You can, as a franchisee.

You can go into the thing that you own and see 36 people at 5am every single day of the

week, rocking up, excited to work out, excited to be fit, excited to be part of this community.

You can get to know 250, 300 people's names and get to know who they are.

And literally, they're not just a number.

We don't have numbers at BFT.

They're not a number.

They're actually a name.

Someone who lives down the street, who's got a story, got a fitness journey, got a reason

that they're going to BFT.

And as a franchisee, especially.

If you're an owner operator, which a good chunk of them are, you can get invested in

that business.

And, you know, you can't, I can't think of many other franchises where you can get to

know those customers so well and feel like you're actually part of their life, you know,

other than work and their family.

BFT is the next thing that they love in their life, that they're there more than any other

place and they're really enjoying.

So we've got to make sure.

We've got to make sure the franchisee is looked after.

And then, of course, we've got to consider HQ or the franchisor, which is us, because

if we're not successful, it doesn't really matter how good the franchisees are if we

haven't got money to pump back into the system in support and regional franchise managers

and the IP of the business and pumping the brand and having partnerships and relationships

like we've just partnered with Hyrox, which is this global fitness race that is going

to do great things for our brand.

It's really exciting.

If we can't do things like that, then the franchisees aren't going to get any value and

they're wondering why they're paying us royalties.

So those three pillars have to work and we have to be fair across the board.

And that shaped everything that Cam and I did from day one in terms of what the contract

looked like, the size of the territories.

You know, we can only sell 380 territories in Australia.

F45, I think, can 580 or 600 or something or maybe even more before they had sold out.

So we've got to be fair across the board.

So our territories are, you know, one and a half times larger than our major competitors

because we wanted our franchisees to feel like they were getting value for money, that

we were being fair and that we took the noise out of pretty much every single complaint

that franchisees have globally.

And as part of the research we did, whether it's your Baskin Robbins or, you know, franchise

in Australia or any fast food chains.

Subway.

Subway, any of them, the franchisees complained that the territories are too small, that they

feel like they're competing with each other.

So give them bigger territories, break down the barriers so our members can go to any

BFT.

They're not restricted just to the one they sign up to, which means our franchisees aren't

competing for members because the members are free to choose to go where they want.

So our franchisees basically work together to share best practice.

They're not competing.

And being fair with what we do.

And how we do it and how we charge our royalties and all that sort of stuff has been fundamental

to answer your question in getting those values right, I think.

And not every franchisee would tell you right now of the 250 open that we're fair in everything

we do.

We know that.

But we try to be.

And I think especially in the early days when Cam and I had those such strong relationships

with the ones that invested in us early, they only had us.

They didn't have a brand.

No one knew BFT.

Now it's not everywhere, but it's prevalent.

They didn't have that brand.

So they relied on us and they trusted us with a lot of their hard-earned money and their

future.

And yeah.

It's a great answer.

And I can just hear the passion come out in your voice.

That's why things are successful, isn't it?

You can genuinely hear your joy around what you do and the fact that, as you said, you

hadn't thought of it that way, isn't it?

People come and they get fit and they have results and they build a community and it's

a pretty unique relationship you have with the 60,000 plus.

It is not something that other groups do.

And I'm not surprised you're successful, but you're right, isn't it?

It's not just the name.

It's the people behind the name that you put a lot of trust in to have that success.

Rich, I've really enjoyed crossing over with you in recent times in a space we're passionate

about, which is great leadership stories like yours and Cam's and what you're doing and

trying to share that with other leaders around the world and Australia in these bespoke groups.

And you've joined one of our...

Leader Connect programs and you're midway through it.

I love the group you're in.

Laura Henshaw, who's a brilliant CEO in her own right, keep it cleaner.

Lydia Lassler, who's an Olympic gold medal winner.

Ken Hinkley, the coach of Port Adelaide, who's...

Since you've been with him, mate, he hasn't lost a game, I think.

Yeah, I know.

I'm not happy with that.

He beat the Bombers the other day.

He's had a fairly good purple patch.

Anthony Seabold is an incredible senior coach in NRL and a great human being in every sense.

And John Safanos, who started Tinter Car and now one of the...

Leaders at Repco.

What's that experience been like for you, Rich, to sort of collaborate with a group like that?

Fantastic.

And don't forget Stace, too, as the moderator.

She's fantastic and very successful in her own right, obviously, as Australian captain in lacrosse.

And yeah, she's been great.

Early days, obviously, we're still sort of finding our feet and getting to know each other.

But the differences in approach are...

Really fascinating for me in terms of how we all structure what we do and how we do it.

At the moment, we're sort of going through what leadership means and trying to break down

what separates a good leader from one who isn't and some of the challenges that we face in our roles as leaders.

So we're helping each other in that.

And I think that's what I'm loving is to hear the different ways that everyone does stuff to eventually...

Get the same result, right?

Which is to try to make sure that you can be someone who is followed, not because they have to follow you,

but because they want to follow you.

And that, in essence, is a definition for me of what a good leader is.

And it's clear for those other five that you mentioned.

Yeah, people follow them because they want to, because there's a passion and an innate sense of purpose for them.

That means people are drawn...

They're drawn to work with them.

Yeah, brilliant description, Rich.

And I love...

We felt probably historically people were in their silos a lot and you would have had your head down

and creating this incredible story called BFT and doing it in your own unique way.

And we sort of love that sharing economy now in real time and you're so open.

The way you told your story before, you just put it all on the table and you're not hiding anything

or the successes and the failures, you're totally transparent.

And so we think capturing those opportunities and sharing them in real time is...

Yeah.

Leadership's lonely at times, isn't it?

There's other people that come from a totally different perspective that we love the thought of that sharing economy

of how you can do things in a different way is the beauty behind it, we think.

And you're feeling that?

Yeah, I am.

Yep, definitely.

We're about to share who some of the leaders in our lives are and people who we've looked up to,

whether they're famous people or people on the journey and that'll be a good session, I think.

Yeah.

One of our coaches had this term, success leaves clues, and I think about it a lot.

And that sort of formed a bit of what we've felt from the environments we've been in

and seeing people like you doing extraordinary stuff, that there are patterns around

why people are continuously successful.

And starting with this idea of self-leadership, Rich always asks people first up,

that we feel it's hard to lead someone else unless you understand yourself.

How would you describe self-leadership?

How I describe myself?

My leadership style?

Your sense of self-leadership for you and what that means to you

to lead yourself first before someone else.

Yeah, I think in that sense, getting the basics right of what motivates and drives me

is probably something that I need to get right and make sure I'm really clear about.

You know, as an example, I remember when Cam and I,

when I first started talking about what BFT could ultimately sort of lead to,

and we put up different sort of objectives and certainly not the first or second or the third,

but eventually we got to, well, how big could this be?

And Cam had actually had in his mind that he thought we could get to a thousand units open.

And that was just, you know, when we didn't have one franchise sold,

you're thinking, you know, geez, that's pretty lofty ambition.

But I was like, he talked to me about it and why he thought it was an opportunity to get there.

And I was like, okay, well, let's go for it.

We wrote it down, but we didn't tell anyone for a couple of reasons.

I think one, because it was the most ridiculous number we'd ever heard of

and people would think we're absolutely crazy.

But more importantly, as I mentioned, it wasn't number one or two or three.

It was the things that mattered were how we actually,

how we actually make sure the franchises were successful.

So there's no point going for a thousand or a million if the franchisees aren't successful.

It had to be about making sure that every time someone asked us how fast are you going to grow?

The answer is we'll grow as fast as the franchise system allows us to grow.

And the moment that they're struggling, the moment they're not getting support,

the moment they're not able to share best practice and work out how to get better,

we need to stop any thought of growth and focus on the franchisee.

So, you know, eventually now that thousand is actually not looking too silly

and we're opening up a bit about the fact that we kind of did actually talk about it a while ago,

but it's a long way of coming back to your sort of question in terms of getting the basics right,

which is how to look after the franchisee.

Similar to me, how do you look after yourself to make sure that I'm in a good place to be able to look after others?

And that was really, really hard after Sebastian and Charlie.

Obviously, passing because there was a sense of what the hell am I doing?

And, you know, Charlie passed away.

And within two months, we were negotiating a $60 million deal with Exponential Fitness around the clock, day and night.

Cam and I literally day and night for 30 days to get this deal done.

But it didn't matter for me anywhere near as much as it probably would have

if I hadn't gone through that time with Sebastian.

And Charlie, because everything in life is put into perspective, right?

And you're like, okay, money is money.

That's fantastic.

It's life-changing, whatever.

But it's not who I am.

It's not going to define me.

I don't want it to define how I am in the future.

I don't want to change as a result of it.

And so the basics of who you are, how you live your life, how you structure your days,

how you're going to stay true to some of your values, which, you know, for me is obviously, as we've mentioned,

is family and making sure particularly that Danielle and I are strong

and that, you know, the stats on divorces if you lose a child is horrendous.

I think it's 80% or something like that.

And we haven't ever asked a doctor what the stats would be if you lose two.

You can laugh to us because it is sort of funny, but yeah.

We had a dinner one night, you know, with you and Danielle.

And the black humor part sort of has to be part of it too, doesn't it?

I mean, it's a hard thing to talk about, but I think it's worth,

you can't be morbid, can you, even in the most morbid situation.

And you have to, you know, and the two of you occasionally, it was like over dinner,

I'm going, did you say that?

You know, and then you do laugh because without it, you're in trouble, aren't you?

Was that part of, you know, talking about self-leadership,

was that part of what gets the two of you through that?

Yeah, absolutely, mate.

And you have to, don't you?

You've got to work out a way, what's going to get you through the day

to make sure that you can actually start the next day.

Because...

Mate, you just want anyone, and I know you've had tough times, you know,

with your father and people listening to this will have lost family members,

they'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

But you just want the world to stop and you expect the world to stop.

And your kid passes and you're like, what the hell?

Why is the world continuing?

Why are people laughing and talking?

Why is the bloody TV on?

Why is the world going on?

It has to stop.

My world has just stopped.

And you can't make sense of how the world is continuing to go on.

It just doesn't seem fair.

It doesn't seem right that everything else in life is going on.

And, you know, you know all of your family and your friends are hurting.

And that was one of the most painful things to me, to be honest,

to see the people so close to you hurting as well.

But life goes on.

And you...

You just can't understand why it doesn't stop.

So to think about how you can get through,

it sort of unfortunately just happens because you realize that the world isn't stopping.

You know, we've got...

Danielle and I have got a photo of a mountain in Africa that was given to us

as part of a charity for very special kids, I think, or St. Paul's.

And on the bottom, it's got the sun always rises.

And it's just the sun coming over a mountain somewhere over Africa.

And it doesn't...

It does.

The sun always comes up and life always goes on.

And you have to find a way to either be part of it because there's no other...

I shouldn't say either, to be part of it, full stop, because there's no other way.

You can't check out.

And literally a week ago, we were lucky enough on family holiday to be at Robben Island

and to be in Nelson Mandela's cell where he spent 17 years.

And we were in the courtyard in the tour beforehand where he was...

Chiseling, you know, limestone to create gravel from for, I think,

eight hours a day or something for 17 years in that courtyard.

And I held the family back because I wanted to be at the end of the tour

so we could be at his cell, just us, and not be rushed to, you know,

go through, take your photo, move on, whatever.

So we were at the back and I just stood there at this two metre by two and a half metre cell

and I was fascinated by how someone could think about how they could go on.

And how they could get up the next day and do the same bloody thing every day for 17 years

and be committed and stay passionate.

And we talk about leadership and I read a lot about him and I just stood there in awe.

Saw the tiny little window that he would have looked out on any day

and saw that the sun always rises, you know.

And I was gobsmacked just to be there and to think about that

and to see where he did his workout.

And you've probably read his story.

You know, he was a boxer and he wanted to keep his fitness regime

so he got up an hour before the ridiculous hour they made them wake up

which would have been five o'clock or anywhere.

So he got up an hour early, 45 minutes of jogging on the spot

because he didn't have anywhere else to jog

and then like a hundred fingertip push-ups and 200 sit-ups

and all of this other stuff that he did every single day

just because he wanted to create a sense of purpose

and he wanted to work out, give himself something to achieve each day

because everything else was kind of meaningless.

Because they weren't allowed to talk and all this sort of stuff.

So, yeah, to get up every single day, mate,

is you've got to be able to do it, right?

You've got to show resilience and you've got to push on.

And people who've been through tough times know that

and somehow you've got to be able to think about that

and work out how you can do that and create meaning and value in your life.

Beautifully said.

It's a profound experience standing in that.

Saw the great privilege of doing that many years ago as well.

You know, shadowboxed and then to come back.

Come out of there and actually forgive and heal a whole nation

that was the most divided nation on earth afterwards

and to bring people back together and not want retribution.

It's just, you know, it's extraordinary, isn't it?

And it is a profound thing to stand there, isn't it?

And think how on earth did he find a way, Nelson Mandela?

We see people really conscious, Rich, day to day

how they positively impact others in their environment.

I've heard you talk with great passion about your team.

Have you gone about that idea of,

every day having a positive impact?

I don't think I'm as good as it is I'd like to be.

I'm sure I'm not.

I'd like to think when I am around our team, I'm positive

and I give them the real opportunity to thrive.

To be honest, it's been really hard for Cam and I to step back

and to have Dave in there as CEO

because we've been across absolutely everything since BFT started.

But we knew that the right progression

and the natural progression,

for the company was for us to allow Dave to come in

and to really manipulate and micromanage, if you like,

the success of our network so that we could focus elsewhere

and really drive the growth internationally.

So the touch points with the team are less now.

But hopefully the space that I'm able to give them

demonstrates that we have absolute confidence

that we can do this.

We know it's not just our brand, it's their brand

and they're incredibly invested in it too.

And to have the OGs that I mentioned

and others who've been at BFT since day one

still there driving it, equally as proud

and excited with what we can do in the future

is incredibly rewarding.

So yeah, positively impact, giving them space,

giving them assurance that we've got their back.

I think that's incredibly important,

especially when you're going into new countries

and you might only have one person.

We've only got one person in Spain at the moment,

one person in the UK,

one person in looking after sales in sort of Malaysia.

So they feel quite isolated.

And I think my role in that is to make sure

that they know that I'm there for them

and that they eventually will get a team

and we will get a team in the UK

because we're selling a lot in the UK and Spain

and across Europe now.

Yeah.

Until that time, they've got to know that I'm there

and that means, yeah, you're talking at,

like I did last night, 11 o'clock at night to people

because it's the right time zone

and that they can be part of the bigger picture.

So team is so important, right?

And wherever we can, we get them involved

in being on Zooms or coming to Australia

for our annual franchise conference

just so that they can feel part of it

because otherwise they, I think,

would feel pretty isolated.

I'd be back to the days of me and Cam

in spots in a warehouse, just the two of us

and it's not fun for anyone.

I love hearing, you know, from a couple of sites

in South Yarra to Spain and Malaysia

and, you know, I saw you pop up in the Philippines

the other day.

It's incredible to see what can be created

when you get that alignment.

It's amazing.

We talk about another dimension of leadership,

how people go about creating and sharing a vision

and I hadn't heard you before.

I'm not surprised knowing the two of you

that, you know, a thousand,

went on the whiteboard

before you'd even, you know,

opened the first proper franchise.

That's a pretty big vision.

How did you go about, you know,

I know you kept that part of it

maybe in-house at the start,

but how'd you go about creating

and sharing this vision of what you've achieved?

I think one of the things from me,

from BP in particular,

but also at the Bombers and, you know,

the Bombers, we went through a hard time

with our vision completely being upended

because I was there right through the ASADA stuff, right?

So, you know, I had to,

I had that horrible year in 2013

having to try to keep the membership base

and sponsors and everyone together

when the whole world of the Bombers collapsed.

So your vision can be incredibly fragile

and it can be broken very, very easily

if you don't have the right magnetic Norse

and the right sort of moral compass.

And so we really focused on fairness

as that driver for us and creating values

where those pillars of the franchisee,

the member and the office

are all in this together

to create a win-win situation.

But what I learned from those times at BP

and the AFL in particular,

when you're creating those strategies and visions,

you've got to bring people along.

You know, that, Dars, it's, you know,

101 of creating a shared vision

is you can't do it yourself.

So Cam and I in the early days

only had each other to sign off on it.

But as we got more people every year,

we would,

throw it up on the board

and interrogate it and challenge it and question it

and say, well, guys, is this right?

Does this actually sit with us as who we are now?

And we've had various iterations of it actually

over time as we get more evolved

and we've now got 30 staff

who all have a say in that sort of stuff

and buy into it.

So it has been evolving.

But at the heart of it,

it's creating these communities

where we're able to change people's lives,

the members and the franchisees,

because of the opportunity that we have

to create this really unique model

where everyone can benefit and everyone can grow.

So bringing people along,

constantly refreshing it,

so much easier said than done, I know,

because you just get caught up in the day-to-day

and the vision just becomes this thing

that's tacked on a board.

But I think making sure we've done those two things

have been really important.

Curiosity is a word which we,

we hear and see a lot in people

who are successful

and they use curiosity as a way to constantly,

apart from learning and development

and wanting to always be better.

Is curiosity paid a part for you?

Yeah, definitely.

I'm so glad Cam and I spent that time six months

before we started selling franchises,

being curious particularly about

what the global landscape is

and where we should be different and better,

which if you didn't know,

is our,

our slogan and our tagline,

which kind of forces people to,

to ask us,

well, okay,

either we believe you,

that you're different and better

or if not,

why?

So the actual tagline is

different, better, yeah.

Different, better, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's a bit of a,

a play on some of our competitors,

obviously,

but it also,

it forces people to ask the question,

well, okay,

prove to me you're different and better.

And there's so many elements to why we are,

why we think we are.

But to answer your question,

which was

Curiosity.

The curiosity,

the curiosity one,

other than,

other than the,

the start of that journey,

really being curious as to what happens in the landscape,

Cam and I are always

looking at

what we can do

within our space

to make sure that we're offering

the,

the very best to

the model.

Cam is a gun at that.

And,

and,

you know,

he's been the first to say,

Rich,

we cannot compromise on the

180 square meters of unencumbered space

that we have in every studio,

because if we do,

it won't allow us to put in new equipment

or new offerings

as a result of changing,

you know,

global best practices when it comes to fitness.

And look,

obviously most of those stay the same.

And that's why Cam's so good that he's like,

well,

we're going to stick to the core

movements that have,

have over the course of time

got results.

So we're not going to waver from that,

but you don't want to restrict yourself space wise

so that you can't adapt.

So Cam's been at the forefront of that.

He's been at the forefront of making sure we've adapted there.

We don't focus really on our competitors,

to be honest,

mate,

where we're,

we've never been ones where Cam and I will talk forever

about what,

you know,

different companies are doing or why they're doing well.

We don't go and spend time,

you know,

working out in their spaces and see what they're like.

We're not that we just know that we're onto something

and we need to focus on us.

I think that's been a,

um,

a smart thing to do.

Uh,

maybe some would disagree and say,

it's really important to know your competitors backwards,

but we've sort of been like,

right,

we,

everyone's got competitors,

but how can we be us and how can we really focus on

the stuff that we do well?

And if we do that,

which is really about making sure our members get results and

a happy being there,

then everything else will fall into place.

So we're curious more so from a,

a broader business perspective and landscape and changing dynamics.

And,

you know,

right now,

obviously,

we're curious as to what the Australian in particular,

but also global markets doing with interest rates and how that's affecting

people's propensity to buy a franchise because they may not have as much

capital available to invest.

Um,

the F 45 sort of,

um,

collapse of their share price.

And you know,

the fact that there's 200 odd for sale across Australia is not great for,

for BFT,

obviously,

because people need strong brands and strong leaders to,

to make sure they back in our model.

And so our job is to make sure we prove to people that we're,

um,

going to drive this thing and we're different and better from every other model.

And that,

um,

we're a,

we're a safe bet.

Uh,

so yeah,

we're more curious probably now as business people,

um,

rather than looking particularly at,

um,

anything our competitors is doing.

Um,

and,

but I love reading.

I love,

you know,

listening to podcasts.

I love finding out about,

um,

what other leaders are doing in spaces.

And that stuff really excites me because there's so much to learn.

And the moment you stop learning or,

or asking people or having opportunities to have coffees with people to pick

their brains is,

you know,

that's why Haim has been brilliant because he's problem.

What do you much knowledge on different things is always there to give a call

to and say,

Hey,

this is our problem.

What do you think?

And,

um,

Cameron,

I will often just go for walks for an hour or so and bounce off ideas with

each other.

So we're curious,

but in that respect,

um,

definitely communicating with a clarity is another dimension.

And as you get a global enterprise and 60,000 new community,

how have you gone about communicating with clarity and going about that?

Yeah.

Communicating with clarity is it's massive,

isn't it?

And as I mentioned before,

gee,

don't know about my comms manager is,

is great,

um,

from that perspective.

And she would be the first to agree with me that where we've needed to,

to communicate well has been in a time where you you're needing to get some information out quickly,

but importantly,

because there's some urgency around it.

Um,

but it needs to be just so on point that it gives people comfort and reassurance in the brand and where we stand.

Um,

and real clarity in that message about what we're trying to get across.

And an example of that is,

when COVID hit,

obviously that the comms to members and making sure our franchisees had a really clear playbook about how to communicate to members about what was happening,

um,

was fundamental to the success of us getting through that time where we,

we didn't lose a franchise.

Um,

and we had these awesome membership community who jumped online,

pivoted,

jumped online rather than,

um,

working out at the,

at the bricks and mortar.

We're actually working out online,

paying the,

the franchisees just a few bucks a week,

maybe 20 bucks.

I think it was at the time to have these online classes,

but it just got us through,

um,

and helped the franchisees survive in that time.

And we,

of course,

didn't charge franchise fees.

We tried to do the right thing there,

but the point was,

if we communicated that poorly to the members or we'd shut or we hadn't been nimble enough to understand that change management is all about communication.

As you mentioned,

that's all change management is.

If you can get communication,

right,

then change management will fall into place.

Um,

so times like that,

we've been,

I think pretty good at sitting back thinking,

what do we need to get through?

How do we do it clearly?

And then having,

don't be afraid to have lots of different sets of eyes on documents to make sure that it reads in the right way.

Um,

that's been really critical for us.

Don't allow just one or two people to read something and send it out.

We're going to,

we're going to do it for 60,000 members.

Um,

so get it right.

You know,

like let's get it right.

Let's make sure they understand where we're coming from,

why we're doing what we're doing and how it's going to benefit them.

Yeah.

Brilliantly said.

And I can see the,

the,

the strategy and the systems and the,

and the clarity within the way that you speak.

How important has collaboration been for you?

Yeah.

Huge.

Yeah.

Um,

uh,

I'm,

I think hopefully cam would say the same,

but we,

we collaborate really well and,

and me and cam and then,

and Haim,

um,

you know,

at board meetings or,

or when we need to,

the three of us have worked really,

really well now with Dave as well,

um,

at the helm collaborating there,

um,

has been just a,

such an important part of driving the,

the business.

Um,

we've got an amazing senior leadership team of,

of,

uh,

another few executives at,

at BFT who now really drive that collaboration and direction.

Um,

but you know,

interesting made it to collaborate on everyday stuff is one thing,

but when you have particular,

um,

strategic deliverables,

that's when collaboration I think becomes so important.

And one thing that we don't,

I don't think do that well in Australia,

but they do really well in the U S is that they create many project teams for

pretty much every strategic item that they do.

That's what they do in corporate America,

right?

They have these PMOs project management offices and they have project managers

who actually are the liaisons between the supply chain and the sales and the

marketing and the finance and whatever other division,

bring them all together and say,

right,

we've got this initiative.

Let's project manage this and let's get it done.

And I think we're weak.

Uh,

and I know,

um,

not just BFT,

but anywhere I've went,

uh,

been in Australia.

I think we're not that strong when it comes to,

to having a project as opposed to a day to day type deliverable.

Who's actually doing it.

Who's responsible for it.

When's it going to be done and what's the scope.

And,

um,

so to wrap all of that together,

you've got to collaborate and you've nearly got to pull people out of their day

to day and say,

right,

you've got to spend an hour a day on this for the next four weeks or it's not

going to get done.

Um,

so I've tried to instill that sense of collaboration by having project

teams.

I think I mentioned,

we,

we just signed this deal with high rocks,

which is this big fitness racing event.

Think sort of like Spartan,

um,

or sort of the tough mud,

but it's indoors and it's gone absolutely gangbusters all over Europe.

And it's gone gangbusters now,

um,

in Australia,

it's already nearly sold out in Melbourne in a couple of months.

Cause all the BFT members have jumped on board.

It's given our members something to train for this massive indoor event at the

showgrounds.

Um,

but we had to collaborate there,

bring people from all over.

Uh,

BFT,

all the different departments together to say,

right,

high rocks wasn't,

didn't exist two months ago.

You didn't have that on your plate for 2023.

Now we've got an event with 3000 people at the,

at,

um,

in Flemington,

uh,

in August and one in Sydney be two weeks prior to that.

What are we going to do?

And there's one in Hong Kong and there's one in Singapore and how we're going

to get our BFTs around this and excited about it and create this whole

program specifically so that people can train for this event.

And feel excited about it and have something to achieve for.

So without collaboration and without a project,

um,

those sorts of things end up for me,

either one person ends up saying,

Oh,

well you deal with it.

And then it goes into the never,

never or doesn't get done properly.

Um,

so I hope that's a great way to think about it.

I love it.

I love the idea of it,

isn't it?

Because you do in your own space,

you get busy and you sort of delegate a little bit,

but to prioritize something when you actually call it a project management,

it's,

it's a,

it automatically elevates it,

doesn't it?

Yeah.

Cause you've got to deliver on it one way or another,

and you've got to be accountable to it.

It's a great way of,

you know,

collaborating within your own business effectively,

isn't it?

And you do,

you know,

the U S experience brings that to the table,

doesn't it?

When you think about,

uh,

how effective that can be,

it's a brilliant idea.

And thanks for sharing.

Rich,

who's been the greatest leader in your life?

Uh,

there's been a few,

um,

different people for different circumstances to us.

I think,

um,

but if I think back to my time,

I had,

uh,

a couple of unbelievable managers at BP and John Clark and Lance Ed,

who,

who gave me the,

the confidence that,

uh,

I was just a young buck as a,

as a BP graduate trainee,

but you know,

you,

you're,

you're only,

they only choose five a year out of,

out of uni.

Um,

and I was one of those and,

and these particular managers gave me the responsibility at a very young age to be a

regional franchise.

I was a franchise manager looking after 30 or 40 BPs in,

in Melbourne.

Um,

and that's where your franchise.

Yeah,

exactly.

That's yeah.

Out of that randomly.

Yeah.

Because BP,

a lot of our,

the service stations are franchised and then Lance and John both backed me in to go and

run a company owned and operated 12 site multi-site franchise in North Queensland in

Townsville and in Cairns.

So I was there as a 25 or seven year old,

maybe yeah,

25 or seven,

one of those ages looking after 110 staff living remotely by myself up there.

Um,

to,

to deliver bottom line,

um,

you know,

millions of dollars for BP.

Um,

so they backed me in and,

and believed in me.

And,

and for me,

they've been incredibly influential.

Um,

and I don't thank them or see them enough for that.

And then you.

Can I just stop on that?

I mean,

for a size,

a company size of BP,

that seems incredibly flexible to be able to trust a 25 year old,

put them into with all the bureaucracy of a hundred thousand people globally.

That seems pretty unique that they're able to just go,

yeah,

we see something in you,

uh,

go and go and go for it.

Yeah.

I think I,

I mentioned it at a little bit,

but I loved that people development aspect to BP.

And that's one of the things that they were incredibly strong with.

I was there for six months as a 21 year old,

and I got the tap from my manager and he said,

we need you to go to Papua,

New Guinea and to evaluate our distributorships.

In PNG.

So I lived in PNG for six months as a 21 year old because I was part of this graduate

trainee scheme where they want to expose you and throw you in the deep end all over the

world to really test your,

um,

ability to,

to cope under pressure and to deliver.

And that's what they,

you know,

that's why they invest in you obviously as a graduate trainee,

but you're right.

It was,

uh,

they were some incredibly influential and defining moments of my life being in PNG and then moving to,

to Townsville and,

and,

and running the show up there.

Uh,

incredibly grateful that they gave me that opportunity.

Um,

and then,

yeah,

as I said,

morphing into the AFL system,

I wouldn't have got into sport,

um,

if it hadn't been for,

um,

Colin Carter in particular,

who is the,

uh,

as you know,

the ex,

um,

chairman of,

of the,

the cats and AFL commissioner and lucky enough to know him as a,

as a family friend.

And,

and he gave me the advice sport can wait.

Um,

go to New York and spend three years there with BP.

Cause I had the opportunity with BP and I was really keen to get into sport and he's like rich,

go and learn what it's like to,

to deliver on a global scale for,

for BP with Castro brand at the time.

Uh,

and that was incredible advice and,

and absolutely right that yes,

the AFL was still there when I came back,

but I had this breadth of experience about dealing in a different geography with different complexities and huge scale that I did,

um,

from New York and,

and Colin was able to introduce me to a number of,

um,

people within the AFL landscape.

Um,

and there were probably only three or five people,

but to crack into sport when you've been a BP dude for 12 years was incredibly hard.

And,

you know,

Darce,

especially AFL,

they only pretty much employed within ex players alumni.

That's how that's until literally 10 or 15 years ago,

the clubs,

would pretty much it was a close shop.

And if you hadn't been a player or from another club,

the chances of you getting a job in at the AFL at a club where we're negligible,

almost impossible.

So to be able to make different people,

including great recruiters that I've had the privilege of being able to,

to meet,

um,

like Paul Helen from six degrees who put me in front of Peter Jackson at the Essendon football club,

who he was CEO at the time.

And Peter was one of the,

the guys who I would,

count again as another amazing leader.

And he had the foresight to say,

well,

I actually don't want people from within the Essendon footy club as players to,

to lead our administration.

Um,

so he put me in as he took a pun on me and put me in as chief commercial officer,

um,

having no prior sports background other than a small stint at golf Australia.

But,

um,

if I look at him,

I look at David Evans as well,

who came on as,

as chairman afterwards,

I see in,

in those people and Colin Carter,

uh,

an enormous amount of integrity would be the word I would use more than anything else.

Um,

knowing that they had a moral compass that was similar to mine,

um,

that they were,

um,

passionate,

but not blindsided by what they believed in.

Um,

and I learned a lot from those people,

uh,

in particular because of,

um,

how resolute they,

they were and,

and how strong they were as,

as leaders.

Um,

and it's funny,

you look back on your career,

especially after we had the life changing moment with exponential where we had the,

you know,

the,

the big opportunity to get some investment from,

from them and,

and life changing.

As I said,

you look back and you think,

who are those people in my life that actually allowed me to get to where I was and,

and,

and they were some of the people who,

you know,

I absolutely owe so much to,

because without their,

their influence and support,

um,

you know,

David through,

um,

and Ian Robson as well,

obviously,

um,

as our,

as our CEO,

but David in particular,

I remember him saying to me,

um,

when we were talking about,

uh,

the boys and then passing away,

he said to me,

if you ever just need to go on the longterm injury list for any period of time,

your job's still going to be here.

Just go,

you know,

and Peter was there with me at,

at the start when I found out about the boys.

And for him,

for him just to be rock solid in,

okay,

let's,

let's do this and let's do it together.

You got a job to do.

And he kept me focused on the job,

which was his massive distraction for me,

which was probably the only thing that got me through.

Whereas Danielle had,

you know,

12 years of having to be at home with sick kids.

And that was her purpose in life.

But for me,

without that distraction of,

of being at the,

at the bombers,

um,

and then at the,

at the giants and Gil saying,

Hey,

Rich,

come to the giants whenever you need.

And,

and,

I don't think I would have been able to get

through,

um,

anywhere near as in the way that Danielle did

because I needed that distraction.

I needed an outlet.

Um,

I don't think I could have coped and we both

couldn't have hoped,

coped sort of being at home in each other's,

um,

spaces.

So to have a real outlet at,

um,

in my corporate life,

thanks to those leaders who,

who really believed in me and,

and showed me how to be a true leader,

I'll be really thankful forever.

Well,

I love asking that question because,

you know,

to take the time to actually say those names out loud,

I know that would mean a huge amount to a lot of those

people I know,

uh,

really well,

but no one gets through without influential people on the

journey,

do they?

And I don't know the BP guys,

but that seems like,

uh,

such a life changing experience as much as the,

uh,

you know,

the AFL,

the AFL guys who I know a bit better are in your

corner.

I'm not surprised by that's the community I know

well,

and it's full of people with big hearts and,

and great values.

the values comes up a lot with you.

I asked this question as well,

because we're a bit obsessed with what we do at a

leader about collaboration,

rich,

and you've just done an international collaboration.

I'm not familiar with,

uh,

high rocks.

Is that right?

Yeah.

It sounds fascinating to see what BFT and high rocks

do together.

But if you looked at it and thought,

if I could collaborate with anyone on anything,

uh,

I'm assuming BFT will be close to your heart with

this,

but it could be,

it could be on any other area of your life.

Is there a name or a space that you've thought of

or not?

Yeah.

Get me the rock or someone like that.

We'll,

we'll maybe give him a few BFT franchises,

although we've never given any away to us.

We have never once given,

we've,

we've stayed true to being fair to everyone and

never given them any away.

We,

we always value them and are consistent with the

pricing and the contract and the structure,

but give me the rock.

Yeah.

I reckon I'd,

I reckon I'd do something for the,

uh,

for the rock.

Um,

he'd be great to collaborate with.

He just seems like this absolute machine who

anything he touches seems to turn to,

to gold.

um,

how big a community is he?

Oh my gosh.

Unbelievable.

Hundreds of millions of people follow him,

don't they,

on a daily basis.

And yeah,

he'd be pretty cool.

Um,

yeah.

And then our other one,

give me,

give me someone who can help us navigate how to

get into other countries where language is,

um,

not English because that's proving incredibly

challenging.

For Cam and I at the moment,

it's going to be a whole new,

whole new ball game for us because you just,

this whole complexity,

right?

Of translations and contracts and documents and support,

and even the screens who have got instructions,

everything.

So I know they're probably not too great answers,

but,

um,

they're brilliant.

Yeah.

That's,

that's where we're at at the moment.

That's,

that's my wishlist.

Uh,

rich has been a great,

uh,

privilege to sit down with you and,

uh,

I've enjoyed,

uh,

the interactions over the years and,

um,

yeah,

the heart's always gone out,

but to hear the way you and Danielle and have thrived,

not only in your life,

but to understand your values and why they're so important to you.

It makes a lot of sense to see this sustained success.

And I get the feeling,

whatever happens,

nothing's going to change who you are,

which is a great credit to you.

So thanks again,

mate.

I've really enjoyed catching up today.

Thanks,

Das.

It's been fantastic being here.

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