Australia_S Greatest Ever Basketballer Andrew Gaze Talks Positivity Enthusiasm And Leadership

I hope you enjoy this upcoming episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast with the one and only

Andrew Gaze, five-time Olympian and Australian basketball legend. You're going to hear a common

theme of how finding happiness in other people's success is what makes Andrew Gaze happy. I love

this conversation. It certainly made me happy and I think you'll enjoy it as well. Creating a world

of collaboration is what we are passionate about in the work we do at Alita and our Alita Connect

signature program brings together diverse groups of people like Andrew Gaze to learn, connect and

collaborate. We would love to connect with you and if you're interested in booking a discovery call

please head to alitacollective.com. The Empowering Leaders podcast is proudly presented by Temper,

a mattress like no other and our guest today is a very proud Temper ambassador.

Andrew Gaze is the greatest name in the history of Australian basketball, a five-time Olympian

who was Australia's flag bearer,

at the 2000 Summer Olympic Games in Sydney and is still second on the all-time point scoring list

in Olympic basketball history. The Australian National Basketball League MVP is awarded the

Andrew Gaze trophy and the Australian International Player of the Year is awarded the Gaze medal if you

don't mind. Gaze played at the highest level in Europe and the United States highlighted by being

part of the San Antonio Spurs first NBA championship victory in 1999. Gaze it's always a great pleasure

to spend some time with you. Thanks for joining me today.

It's a pleasure to be here.

It's a privilege. Thank you very much for having me, Das. Appreciate it, mate. I didn't realize I was

that high up on the pecking order, although you've probably done a million of these, so perhaps I'm not

that high up as I think. You are right at the very top of the tree, Gaze, as you would imagine in

everything that you do. I always love, whenever you mention I've bumped into Andrew Gaze or I've

spent some time with Gaze, people just smile straight away and you bring this infectious

personality and this great energy, mate, into everything that you do. Is that something that

you've been conscious about bringing positive energy or is it just you being you?

I think it's probably me being me. I take it as a compliment, that's for sure, but it's not a conscious effort.

It's just, I guess, a reality of the opportunities that I've been given and the privilege that I have and it's

made for a fantastic life and I'm always very grateful for those opportunities and perhaps because of that

somewhere in your fibers that you're getting a clip over the head if you ever start to get a bit grumpy.

Things aren't going your way to say, hang on big fella, you've got plenty of things to be happy about, so just try and be a little more grateful.

But that's not the case for, a lot of people are successful and grumpy and don't have that energy.

I'm going to talk about Lindsay and the family history, but is that a Gaze family trait? Because

it is a brilliant thing. You want to be around people like you more often, Gaze.

Yeah, I really don't know. I think that

there's a lot of people who are successful and grumpy and grumpy and don't have that energy.

There's no doubt from my parents' standpoint, the influence that they had on me, and I believe

that's a significant part of what's made my personality.

You know, you've always got the nature-nurture argument, and there's a combination of all

those things that I'm sure have a pretty significant influence.

But for me, the most dominant factor is the influence that my parents had on me.

My dad was always one that's very pragmatic, very objective.

He was never a rancher or a raver.

He'd never force things down your throat.

It was never my way or the highway, but he had this ability to be able to communicate

and set boundaries and hold people accountable in a way that wasn't confrontational.

And it was this guided discovery that you go through.

And I think that between him and my mum, that they were able to always make sure that you're

incredibly grateful for.

You know, all the opportunities that you are able to receive.

I come from what I would consider very, very humble backgrounds in that, you know, we weren't

blessed with great wealth, financial wealth, but we were blessed with incredible wealth

in regards to an environment that I grew up in.

And it was always constantly reinforced that these were privileges that I had that others

didn't.

And because of that, you know...

You come to appreciate and learn that, hey, everything's pretty cool because you don't

have to look too far to see the alternatives and know that, like you mentioned, that there

are others doing a hell of a lot tougher.

Guys, when you think about the legacy of your legendary father, Lindsay, and your mum and

the whole Gay's family.

I mean, the Gay's family really established basketball in Australia in lots of ways.

Can you tell us about growing up in Albert Park and when really a lot of Australians

didn't know about or care about basketball, what that was like?

You know, for you growing up?

Yeah, it was different.

And mainly because of the environment that I grew up in.

Lived in this little cottage that was in a sports precinct.

For those from Victoria or know anything about the city of Melbourne going back a long way,

in the late 50s, there was these old Commonwealth Army warehouse storage facilities that were

right next to the Albert Park Lake.

And they were no longer required.

Right.

And the local council...

The local council there decided to allocate those facilities to sport.

And one was given to basketball, one was to badminton, and one was to table tennis.

Not, at the time, real high-profile sports.

And they were converted into these sporting complexes that, additionally, a few years

after they were done, a squash centre was built in that same precinct.

There was the old Harry Trott Oval at the back of it.

And right next to that was the Albert Park Golf.

And when basketball was going through this conversion to make this old, you know, asbestos

roof, real sort of primitive type facilities, converting it into a basketball stadium, in

their wisdom, they built this little cottage.

It was a manager's residence that was attached to this basketball stadium.

So I grew up in an environment that was surrounded by all these different sports, and I had a

nine-court basketball stadium.

And it was my backyard from the time I was born to the time I was about 13 or 14 when

we moved out.

So I had this incredible environment that was vastly different to a lot of my friends

when I was going to primary school or high school.

They knew nothing about basketball.

At that time, it was considered a bit of a...

Now, you're not allowed to say this anymore, but at the time, it was considered a bit of

a sissy sport.

They thought it was...

Netball was a girl's sport, you know, and this...

It was considered...

Really didn't know a lot about it.

So for me, playing a game which I loved and was very passionate about and had been educated

about it from a very young age, I knew how huge it was throughout the rest of the world.

Unless you played footy or cricket, then it was hard to necessarily be in tune with a

lot of your peers and your friends.

So it was different.

It was one that whenever my friends used to come around to my house and they'd see all

these different things, we'd go and hit a bat, you know, table tennis, and we'd be at

the back of the Harry Trot Oval having to kick a footy, playing golf.

Everyone wanted to come to my joint because it was so vastly different.

So it was a lot of fun and although it was different, it was one that I felt really helped

me in my sporting development because, you know, a lot of people these days, they don't

from a very early age, a lot of parents focus their kids on one particular sport and everyone

assumes that because of my dad's success that from the time I came out of the womb, I had

a basketball in my hand and that's all I did.

But in fact, I did a whole bunch of things.

So, and I think that that versatility and experimenting with all those different sports

really helped me in my pursuit of basketball.

Fascinating to hear you say that, Gaze, at the end.

You would have thought that that's it.

You were the Tiger Woods of, you know, basketball.

Yeah.

And Lindsay wasn't going to give you lunch if you didn't shoot, you know, 400 free throws

a night.

But I read a great book in the last 12 months that a friend gave me called Range and it

talks about athletes like Roger Federer, whose mum was a tennis coach, but she wouldn't hit

balls to him because he was a bad sport.

And so he had to go and play soccer and badminton and go and do all these other sports that

when he actually matured and she said, okay, you're right to play.

He was a much better all-round athlete and makes a little bit of a difference.

Gaze, I sent you a message and I'm sure it was one of thousands, the Olympic games

in Tokyo in 2021 and Paddy Mills and Joe Ingalls are the leaders of that team.

Something that Gaze family for more than four decades probably have been on that path from

the humble manager's cottage at the Albert Park Sports Centre, toiling away, building

basketball, this dream could Australia, as you said, people don't realise a sport that

no one really cared about or sort of laughed about basketball in this country.

So would Australia be good enough to win an Olympic medal?

And it happens in Tokyo and there's so much of the Gaze history all over it.

But your reaction, mate, was one of the most joyful, beautiful things I've ever seen.

And I, but I couldn't help, but there's tears in my eyes as well.

Just your joy for other people's success.

Can you explain why that was such a big moment?

Yeah, well, it was, it was joy for the guys that have been there because it was my boyhood

dream when I was growing up because of my dad.

Who?

Uh, was a part of the 60, 64 and 68 Olympics as a, as a player.

Then in 72, 76, 80 and 84 Olympics, he was a coach.

And, and even prior to that in, in 56, he and his brother was selected to play in the

exhibition game of Australian rules football.

When my dad was growing up, he played Australian rules football, mainly in the, uh, uh, the

amateurs and the association.

And, um, there was a all-star game with the exhibition game, which each host city.

It is able to, to showcase they had Australian rules football.

So my dad and his brother played in that as well.

So, um, he, he participated in one way, shape or form in eight consecutive Olympic games.

So being born into that environment and learning about the Olympics and learning about the

spirit of competition and getting appreciation for how significant that can be.

Uh, it was, it was my boyhood dreams.

Uh, when I, you know, when you're a young kid and.

I tell this story a bit, but I'll shorten it.

But, but when you're a young kid and you're, your mom puts you to bed and they'll tell

you the bedtime stories.

And as you're, you're thinking about all those fanciful things that you can do, all

that, you know, if some kids will be there, if they're looking for something heroic deed

to do, if a lot of them, you talk to them, they'll, they'll be the fireman that comes

and puts out the fire or the policeman that saves a robbery and, and does.

All these heroic things.

Well, for me, my earliest childhood memory of the most heroic thing that I could do was

winning, was hitting the winning shot for Australia to win a medal at the Olympic games.

That was, that was my fixation from a very early age.

And it really helped, uh, me grow.

And, uh, my goal was to achieve that, that, that boyhood dream.

And I had the privilege to go to compete at five Olympics, but.

Uh, we never, we played off for a medal three times.

We never actually won a medal, but it was always the dream of my dad.

And because of my dad's involvement, uh, not just as a coach and a player, but as an administrator

of the sport, I saw things that, that not other, no other people were able to see.

I saw the Toils when he first started and was running that basketball stadium in, um,

in Albert Park.

In the early 60s.

And they had a national registration, uh, of about eight to 900 basketball players.

That's where it started from.

That's not in Victoria.

I'm talking throughout the whole country.

There was the 800 registered players and for him to, to take this, him along with others,

not just him, but as one of those founders of that, who's trying to propagate the game

and build stadiums and get an understanding of what it was going to take to fulfill.

That dream, he knew that without high levels of participation, without introducing this

sport to many, many people, then you're never going to achieve, uh, uh, international success

and, and it was a tremendous goal to have.

So for me, that was the culmination of that boyhood dream and seeing the way in which,

um, which very few people could remember or saw the development of the game.

That's why it was.

Yeah.

Very much special for me because, uh, I had a, I guess a, a more detailed appreciation

of what it took to get there.

My mind gaze is going to, um, my old school friend, John Aloisi, who I've had the pleasure

of sitting down with.

Yeah.

We went to school in year three together and, and that was his really early childhood

memory and dream as a kid, when he went to bed from an Italian family, a very proud soccer

family.

His brother Ross was an outstanding player.

Yeah.

I'm going to kick the winning goal.

You know, he was a really good player, a really good player and a great guy.

He was a great guy.

He was a great guy.

He was a great guy and I can picture him.

I can picture him.

Yeah.

And, and I can picture your world and to see that happen and that, that makes sense.

What I love guys use it.

You know, it wasn't meant to be in your area and you're incredible to play off three times

for a medal, but it was like you'd won.

That was the joy I got.

It was like as it did it feel that way for you, that it was just as good.

Yeah.

Which is brilliant.

And the hardest thing is I was commentating the game and you're trying to keep your focus

on commentating the game.

I'm with alongside Andrew Bogan who had also been to a couple of Olympic Games

and we're there and you're trying to contain yourself

and you get off to a really good start and, you know,

and the battles that they're going through

and you're sort of getting overcome with emotion as it's going.

You're trying to, you know, you're trying to keep it all in check

and be professional about the job you've got to do as a broadcaster

as well as a fan and a passionate basketball person.

It was tough and it was not until like it was probably an hour or so after that

that I did a show called Shinya.

It was a wrap-up sort of show along with Andy Maher

and there was this excitement that was brewing after the game with Bogues

and we're celebrating.

There was genuine joy and happiness for what we're finally able to achieve

and then what happened was is I,

I hadn't checked my text messages or anything like that

because I was still caught up and it's surrounded by all the commentators

and that and this Olympic hub where you've got superstars from all sports

coming and hugging you and saying, well done, this is great

and you're getting filled up with the excitement and all

and just before we went to air on Shinya, I turned on my phone,

had a bit of time, I was waiting there because Hamish,

he had, you know, he banged on and it was going on with his show

and we're waiting for them to finish it up.

So,

I got my phone out and I saw, mate,

the messages coming through about the success and, you know,

and a lot of it was overwhelming because it was somehow or other congratulating me.

I'm thinking, well, I'm here in another country calling it off the tube

and it was like just, and it's just the heartfelt messages of, you know,

the generations that have come before and all those things.

It started to get me.

I'm like, geez, this is starting to hit me.

And then when I finally, then straight after reading all that,

I was on air and Andy Ma started to talk about it

and then I was just sort of overcome and tried to share the emotion of the joy

that we have for the players and what they're able to do

and the coaching staff and all those that were immediately involved.

But my thoughts went back to my year, the players that I played with,

the players that inspired me that went and, you know,

always the undersized overachievers that went away and competed at World Cups

and Olympic Games who had done it a lot harder than me and others

and those that come after it that really helped provide those opportunities.

So there was genuine happiness and joy that was not just felt by me

but the entire nation and in particular a basketball community

because for those of us who are as old as me,

and like you talk about with John Aloisi,

it was a time when we came through that wasn't as well received,

wasn't as well known and there was perhaps not the appreciation

of what this type of achievement meant.

And we all just saw the pure joy, Gage,

and we loved that you were just so giving in that time

because, you know, there's a bracket of people that maybe would feel a bit of jealousy

that it wasn't their era and all that came out was pure joy.

I love that the superstar, you know,

the leader, you know, Indigenous Australian athlete, Paddy Mills,

for him to take the reign and, you know, shoot 42 points in that final,

I thought just was another layer that was just so brilliant.

As an Australian story, going back to the roots of 900 registered basketball,

I think there's 900 in the under nine competition.

Correct.

My kids play in one domestic league at the moment.

That's how good basketball is going in Australia at the moment,

which is another great story to talk about.

I want to ask you, you've played in championship winning teams.

In Australia, you were part of that San Antonio Spurs team that I mentioned.

You're a really successful stint in US college.

What's good leadership look like to you in the successful teams that you've played in?

Yeah, it's a very common question.

And the thing that I have noticed throughout my time in sport

is that the leadership can come in a variety of different ways.

There's no cookie cutter model that you can put in place to say,

bang, do this, this, and this.

And you're a good leader.

It doesn't work like that.

And there are so many different ways in which you can lead.

And if you look, you mentioned, say, the San Antonio Spurs team that was there.

It was a veteran team, which was a little unusual back then.

It was a bunch of older guys that are coming together

that also had a superstar young fella in Tim Duncan.

And their leadership styles were old.

A lot were sometimes diametrically opposed.

If you look at someone like Tim Duncan,

didn't speak a lot, but spoke with his actions more than his words.

If you look at Greg Popovich, gone on to win five NBA titles,

regarded as one of the greatest coaches ever to coach the game,

very vocal, very, very direct with his feedback.

And did not discriminate on who he'd give his feedback to,

whether it's the 15th man on the roster or Tim Duncan or David Robertson,

very direct and was prepared to hold people accountable in a very, very similar way.

And you transpose that to right now and with me being involved in coaching

and say the Greg Popovich model that I saw in 99,

I, I, I,

I, I,

I would find it very,

I would find it very,

very difficult for that to be appropriate in 2018 when I'm coaching

because of the different personality types,

the different changing of attitude,

the way in which you've got it,

you're at you,

you communicate to people has to be very nuanced these days,

as opposed to back in 99.

I think the underlying characteristic to it all is that the most,

most of the leaders have put in place clearly defined standards and behaviours that they believe are appropriate and they are prepared to hold people accountable to those standards.

And the other thing about being a good leader is also understanding your role.

Sometimes the second and third followers are actually outstanding leaders because they are following your lead.

Sometimes the second and third followers are actually outstanding leaders because they are following your lead.

And so it's,

they are following and endorsing and supporting and assisting those that are above them.

So there is a whole bunch of different characteristics that you can point to as saying,

as being identified as,

as good leadership traits,

but they are very varied and they are very,

can be quite sometimes just when you look at it in isolation can be very contradictory.

But when,

but when,

when,

deep dive into them, they still can feature very, very strong leadership characteristics.

It's a brilliant answer, Gazi, and I love the thought that it does look different in

different personalities and, as you said, can be as effective.

Where I feel people get it wrong a lot is, I want to be like Greg Popovich and I'm going

to try and be that sort of leader because that's successful and it never works, does

it?

It never works if you're not authentically being yourself.

I mean, and clearly he was and he is, that's who he is and it works for him.

We've seen this big shift in leadership, Gazi, from the AFL era I played in was very much

command and control and you'd cop the hair dryer every second day and if you couldn't

cope, you're out.

Whereas we see, you used the word nuance, the generation of coaches that I probably

played with that are senior coaches now, they're much more, they're much more

more, I'd say, collaborative with their team.

They really take feedback on, they work with their player.

Is that, you've coached a lot in recent times, is that where it's at now?

Do you think that's a healthier way to lead teams now?

I think with all these things, there is a balance and your point is that your personality

type and the certain traits you have as an individual, yeah, I think you absolutely can

learn to vary that.

And like anything.

You have experiences, you get some education and can really help you in that area.

However, I think that in order to be the most authentic, you've still got to combine that

with what you are and what your personality is.

And because of that, there are some roles that may not be as appropriate as others.

You may be because of your personality type.

And despite that...

And despite all the various things you can do, there are certain roles that, well, that's

just the reality of your DNA that, hey, you've got to find your right role.

So it can be very difficult for some, I think, because you're aspiring to other things.

But, you know, it's like a basketball player.

You're born, you're also born with a bit of DNA and I wanted to be like Mike.

But God love me.

I could never jump.

And I didn't have that.

I didn't have that DNA in me to ever get up and barely touch the rim rather than fly like Mike.

So, and it's the same in other areas.

Well, yeah, you want to be Greg Popovich, but, hey, that particular way, you haven't

been born with that.

So you've got to figure it out.

You've got to figure out how in which you can be changed so you can get the same types

of outcomes in a different way.

And I think that the ability...

For the individual to understand, particularly in a team environment, that just because you're

not necessarily the main guy, the lead guy, doesn't mean you're not a leader.

For example, Tim Duncan was the best player on our team.

Tim Duncan and David Robinson were the best player on the San Antonio Spurs team.

But Avery Johnson, a five foot ten guy who'd been cut left, right and centre, was our point guard.

And our team, he was very much the leader of our team.

And he was holding Tim to account when we were out on the floor.

He was the floor general when we were out there.

And he did it in a more Greg Popovich way than Tim Duncan.

Like, he was there and being very direct sometimes.

And I remember when I first got there and I thought, mate, this is a five foot ten guy

who's been cut left, right and centre.

And he's having a crack at Tim Duncan and David Robinson.

I'm thinking, this could go horribly pear-shaped.

Right?

But such was the leadership of Tim Duncan.

He knew he was the best player on the team.

But he also knew that Avery had a job to do.

He had to be the organiser, the distributor, do all those things.

And it showed great leadership qualities to not let the ego get involved,

not let Avery do his thing because of a so-called pecking order

and understood that he was the best player on the team.

And he understood that he was the best player on the team.

And he understood that he was the best player on the team.

And he understood that when all's said and done, I'm the best player.

I know they're going to come to me at the right times.

I know they're going to be able to get it done.

And for him to have the, for Avery to have the other impact,

I had to lead by not showing dissent or not contradicting a lot of the things

that Avery could do.

Both great leaders, but both are doing it in a vastly different way

and that Tim, very quiet, didn't say much, but would let his game do the talking.

So I don't know if that makes sense, but it makes sense to me.

Because I saw it firsthand and I could see how the dynamics are working.

And if Tim Duncan is like some other players and says,

screw you, man, don't talk to me like that.

That's bullshit, blah, blah, blah.

And trying to get Avery to change the way he was doing it.

Well, Avery might have changed, but in a very short window,

in a season, in the cut and thrust of it all,

that was going to take a lot of work.

Yeah.

Great leadership by understanding what Avery is.

Avery, great leadership by understanding what Tim is

and accepting that we win an NBA championship.

It's the magic of sport, guys.

It's why we love it so much, isn't it?

It's that, you know, how do you get that to happen

and work at the right time, as you said.

I love the self-awareness and it applies to all areas of our life, isn't it?

You know, I might want to be the CEO of BHP.

Maybe there's an ego that says, but I haven't got the skill set to do it.

Or knowing your role, isn't it?

And then finding that success within the role,

whether that's on a sporting team or any other area, isn't it?

You know, you and I have worked in commentary boxes a lot

over the period of time.

And you try and be Bruce McInerney.

When Bruce is there, you've got a short lifespan, Gazi,

because there's only one Bruce.

Well, that's right.

So that's what you've done.

And you're another example of Avery and Tim to say,

well, I'm not Bruce, but in order for us collectively

to get the result I need, I've got to be able to do my bit.

I'm still very much a player.

I'm still a key cog to it all.

But Bruce has got to be Bruce in that type of situation.

And you don't want to impose yourself to a point that it's

to the detriment of Bruce and to the detriment of the whole thing.

And that's – it can be tricky.

And you've got producers and other people in our commentary environment

that try to, you know, manage all that.

But when you're dealing with really, really driven people

that are striving to the best.

And the thing that I say about – and the message that I also try to say

that, again, I don't want this to sound like a contradiction,

but my experiences in sport has shown me that those that get

to the absolute highest, those that perform feats that no one

in the world has ever done before, they knew they were going

to do it from a very young age.

They had that goal.

It didn't happen by accident.

Now, at some of the times when they're there, we think, well,

this is cockamamie rubbish.

Yeah, you're going to run 9.6.

You turn it up.

Here's a 14-year-old saying, I'm going to run 9.6.

Well, whatever it is, and bugger me, Usain Bolt some 10,

12 years later, he's running 9.8 or whatever the hell it is.

So I don't say everyone should strive for the ultimate.

Don't – you're not going to get there by accident.

You're not going to perform a world record.

You're not going to – you're not going to – you're not going to – and I

win a gold medal you're not going to do any of those things unless you absolutely believe it

and feel it in your body to know that yes i'm going to do these things and push yourself to

get there um but along the process particularly in team sport you've got to realize that there are

in order to get to that gold medal hey i want to go out there and average 40 well averaging 40 is

not going to be the best for this particular team so we've got to refine those goals to the

to get the ultimate outcome of a gold medal but we still want you to be striving to be a great

scorer because that's what you do best yeah and i'm i'm so in line with you guys when you've

genuinely and people will relate to that you mightn't be able to run a world record but when

you genuinely passionately cared about something and you go to bed thinking about it and your whole

energy flows in that direction

inevitably that's where you end up isn't it now not everyone you know can be michael jordan or

andrew gaze but you know that logic i think is something finding that thing that you love so

much you're not it's not work is it when you're dreaming of winning that olympic medal that was

just that was the joy of of your life i i often when i watch uh the australians succeeding on

the international stage gaze i think of you and i think there must be great pride in josh giddy i

remember crossing over to basketball court and seeing you and you're pointing out to have a look

at this kid he's going to be

something extraordinary dyson daniels joe ingles patty mules the list goes on and on and and it must

be full of incredible pride but i wanted to ask you about ben simmons the number one overall pick

in the national draft in the nba an australian born extraordinary athlete 208 centimeters 110

kilos it looks like life's got a bit hard for ben and i find it a sad story without knowing

you know him personally or knowing the sport that it seems like the joy's been taken away

what sort of leadership do you think he needs around him at the moment gazey to

to get it all back on track that's a that's a really tough one because we're always from the

outside looking in and you'd know within 40 circles and i know within basketball circles

that sometimes the narrative that's going on about a team an individual is not necessarily

the reality and people will come up with some uh explanations or some suggestions without all the

information and facts and i think that's a really tough one because we're always from the outside

but but you know so there's always a an asterisk next to anything i or anyone else says unless you

are really intermittently involved it's hard to to know but i do know through my own experiences

and the consistency of certain situations of some of the challenges that he is facing

and i think that one of the hardest one believe it or not and it was a long time ago when i was

there in 99 but i've also had glimpses of the nba program and i've also had glimpses of the nba program

recently as a guest coach or um seeing some of our players go over there is the culture of the

nba is not easy it's not like it is here in australia it's a team sport that has

uh profoundly individualistic attitudes and because of that it it's it's it's harder to find

your role uh particularly when you're

the expectations are so high and i think with with ben he was on this trajectory that even with

his time in the nba when he was there as a youngster he was overachieving he was excelling

two times all-star defensive player all these various accolades that were there but the minute

things started to go go a little tough i think that that what's happened to him is is and i

i think all basketball players have been in the nba program for a long time and i think that's

is that there's that little bloke on the shoulder that's always telling you what you can't do

and he's there and he's in your head and sometimes trying to shake him and brush him off it's it's

really hard to do because you can't get it out of your head and for him it comes down to what he's

doing with his with his jump shot uh all the a lot of the the the criticisms of him notwithstanding

the off-court stuff about his holdout with the the sixes and the relationship issues and the egos and

all that difficult but let's just park that for a second when you talk about his actual game

is i can see it in him like i've seen it in with him and there will always be these guys when it

comes to your shot it's like in golf the yips when you get the yips it is a tough thing you know

what are you talking about just swing the club back 18 inches and

push it through and it can't be that hard it's the same with a jump shot a free throw what are

you talking about there's no defender here go up the ring's not moving shoot the ball it should be

easy but when you've got that little fella on your shoulder telling you you're shit that rim looks

like a thimble uh yeah yeah yeah your head's not in the right place and you lose that confidence

it is a nightmare and i see a lot of that in him right now where

this season i think he's got more fouls than field goal attempts not makes field goal attempts i

mean it's something there's some statistical stuff that's going on this year that's that's

outrageous so for me getting the basketball right will solve a lot of the other stuff that's going

on and the criticisms that he's facing getting the basketball right is very very hard but what

do you get the mind right how do you get the mind right to make the basketball which one comes first

and uh sometimes great players they'll have this that that little fella in your head saying you

know good you know good and bugger me you come out you start hitting some shots and you just hear

the distant voice of the little fella and it's almost gone because just natural instincts i'm

shooting it and it's going in um but for him who's got some you know some technique issue problems

it's hard for him to get out there and just let it fly and just starts dropping so he has got some

problems he's got to deal with with his technique in order to get his mind right but i think with

him in particular if he can get the mind right and eliminate that fear of failure and that is a

big one fear of failure has brought many a person down but if he can somehow or other eliminate that

that fear of failure take some of the burdens off and just let it go

off start to see some things drop which he's shown he can do he's already shown he can do it

but when the mind starts playing games with you it's hard to get so getting the right people

around you to understand the work that you've got to do the perspective that you've got to have

and the calmness that you need to exist in your life in order for that to happen is going to be

the big challenge and gazey there's a massive asterisk alongside this next comment for the

obvious reasons that you pointed out before

you you gave that uh that answer and that is you know without being on the inside course you don't

know i must admit i i look at that olympic medal and you know ben simmons not being there and you

think i wish that around him that clearly is huge contract and there's insurance risk and there's

tens of millions of dollars so i'd take that on board but how good that would have been for him

to get back into a culture with patty mills and joe ingles and all of that team that did such

great and be the man at olympic games you see luke donchik goes back and plays the olympic

days with his heart for you know for for his country every single time and so i just you know

i take on board what you're saying and i'm sure that's the case i'd love some of that advice to

be around him i think uh that would be 100 and that's just on that and i've said this publicly

before i don't think he understands as yet because when he was like 16 or 17 he was involved in the

program for a very short window there was a tour

i think it was and he was involved with a junior uh team so he has had international experience

with the australian team but he i don't think he understands the benefits that he can gain

from it even say well we'll try to even think of it selfishly i know that being involved in

this program is going to help him trying to convince him of that is difficult because

for the last

three years he's had nothing but scrutiny and criticism about some of his decision making

nothing but so he's got to try and find a way to to have faith in others around him to say

give this a go you're now going to be playing in a situation where you're not going to be

scrutinized for not taking that shot you've got others around that you're going to support you

go out there and and have fun just embrace this and no one's worried about the

name on the back of the jersey anymore it's all about the name on the front of the jersey now

look at these guys look at uh jokic look at all these other international players have gone and

represented their country their numbers are nowhere near what they do in the nba but but

they're not under that same level of scrutiny that they are and you're around people with this

common goal this common goal that goes beyond how many points rebounds and assists we're getting

it's it's it's it's all that's going on and it's a lot of people who are not going to have that

stuff's important because it's part of winning but it's parked in the sense of who has to get

it done we're going to find that out okay you're the shooter you're and it's and it's a just a

completely totally different culture than what you get in an nba environment and if you're

surrounded by that you get a different perspective on the game and how the game can um uh treat you

then i think that it can be part of that rehabilitation for want of a better word for

which he has to go through and that would be a good thing and selfishly you know with the

the australian heart on the sleeve uh wouldn't you love to see i would yeah

josh giddy and you know dyson down that generation coming through with ben simmons leading the way

would be would be something special gazey we spend a third of our lives in our beds

it's a pretty good decision to invest in the world's best bedding mate isn't it

well it is and for me it came about because uh probably two or three years ago i was having some

some back problems and i thought well your bed feels okay and surely it's not and then then

some advice came back and said well you might want to look at the bed because like you said

you don't probably realize how long you're actually spending these things

so i went about and i um sought out some uh different alternatives and then uh the temper

came along

and you know when you just you sit in something you go hang on there's something a little bit

different about this it seems to just fit me a little bit better was that tension level

it seemed right and i thought i need a little look a little bit further in this so as i did um

got to to learn a little bit more about the temper and the mattress and all the science

that goes into it uh and um eventually uh got one and uh it's been fantastic

now whether it's

a direct correlation but i can look you in the eye and anyone out there and say well

my back problems are not what they were um so i'm sure there's other things that go into it but

to me uh the ability and i don't know if you've got one uh dust but that when i've got the sexy

model where you can zero gravity andrew gaze change your life i'm 10 years ahead of you

i've been sleeping in uh timber bedding for over a decade and i the problem i've got is if i ever go

into state or you stay in a hotel room i can't i can't sleep i can't nothing is the same as

temper mattress and for those that are listening zero gravity press a button your feet just raise

that little bit gay your back comes up it's like you're floating it's nasa approved uh betting

the team at temper and it's changed my life seriously i i can't uh you know do anything

else i'm not surprised as as a you know he's a big guy an athlete with back troubles this is uh

this is a good investment jay-z

annoys me and i i make my bed when i get out and i'm the last out i always make the bed but

i don't change the bed as as often as i should and melinda does it and what my wife when she does it

and she messes with my settings so she comes in there because she wants it perfectly flat so bang

it's flat when i get in there i go hang on a second and then i'm gonna go and i'm okay now

but when i was first there getting it just just to that right spot where the legs are right

the head's in the right i'm back in it

so i had to we had to go through some some periods there where uh i just say can you please

don't push any more buttons i'm in my sweet spot right now and i don't want to be messed with

all the best athletes in the world sleep in temper betting including hall of fame nba

championship legend of australian basketball andrew gay's temper a mattress like no other

i like asking this question guy i know you're a passionate father of four what what what do you

like on the home front as a leader gazey what do you what do you bring to the table as a father

well you've got to know your role as we're talking about and uh everyone would think that

in some instances that maybe i have um not fulfilled my roles as a stereotypical father

but i don't know what that is i i think that there are so many these days so many different

family dynamics uh but for me it's as it is uh with my basketball teams and with other things

in that about

finding the best way to find joy in life and how you guide your kids to have comfort and joy in

life and that doesn't mean they've got to be independently wealthy it doesn't mean that

if you're not the ceo of the major company that you failed it's about trying to find contentment

and joy in life and providing an environment where my kids can explore

and get as much opportunities that we as a family can provide for them for them to figure out what

it is that provides them with joy i played basketball at a time where i never ever ever

ever for one second ever thought throughout my developmental years that i was ever going to

be a profession that i would actually get paid for playing the game but i found something that

i loved that inspired me that gave me unbelievable intrinsic reward and i found that i was able to

make a living out of it and i was able to make a living out of it and i was able to make a living

out of it and i was able to make a living out of it and i was able to make a living out of it

that gave me a social environment that was fun and all my friends and everything that provided

my life as joyful as it possibly could and yes i had some privileges just like we spoke about i was

in a uh this unique uh situation where i i grew up but my goal in when as a father has to be

is to do what my parents did for me and provide as many opportunities as i could for my kids and

opportunities as i possibly can for my kids uh teach them right and wrong respect try to get them

educated but somehow or other give them a direction where they can find their passion in life what is

going to be their passion and provide them with joy and if they are happy and content then i feel

like i've succeeded as a father what a brilliant answer yeah i love it and and you know interesting

to say you know what what is you know

conventional parenting look like i think you you break it down you know in the most simplistic way

isn't it it's not putting a layer on saying you know i'm going to love you if you you know play

basketball like me or you know i've got this expectation finding that for them isn't it giving

them as much support as you can and uh i appreciate you sharing that go we've been asking a series of

questions loving the idea of what leadership looks like and as you said different settings

different personalities different ways but we see some common traits of modern leaders gazey that

uh i'm keen to get your thoughts on and we think it starts with a sense of self-leadership very hard

to lead others if you don't understand your own sense of self-leadership what does that mean to

you self-leadership well i think it's um an understanding of your own abilities uh sometimes

trying to lead when you're not qualified to lead can end in disaster and it's about understanding

where you are at in certain situations and for me taking my leadership qualities

when i was or what i had to do as a leader when i was at the nba with with the melbourne tigers in

the nbl quickly and vastly different to when i'm a player on the san antonio spurs because

it's it's a different environment there are different people around of different skill sets

all those things so there are certain things that are transferable in those circumstances

yeah even though i'm the 15th man as opposed to the 15th man i'm the 15th man i'm the 15th man

as opposed to the first one or two men uh i'm still responsible for my own behavior i'm still

responsible for holding people accountable uh and the mechanisms of which you need you you have to

do it are different but that still doesn't change if you're the 15th man and someone's not applying

themselves in the right way i'll do it in a different way but i still have to hold people

accountable when you're uh not qualified i go into a situation when i've finished my my

basketball career and i feel like i'm worldly and i've got all these principles that i'm learning

and i'm getting involved in in business ventures and getting involved in administration of the

sport uh trying to exude the same uh leadership methods i wasn't ready i i understood that i'm

ready for that because i'm not qualified in certain areas to to be able to lead i've got to get an

understanding um but like i said right from the start being a follower does not make you a less

of a leader being a follower and learning from those around you does not take away from your

leadership responsibilities so being aware of those situations and being aware of of

your skill sets and trying to make sure you figure out uh where that fits in is part of the

challenges i think to to answer that question about what's inside is being inside is trying to

where am i at right now with my abilities uh and where am i at right now to be able to help

in whatever that challenge is that you're facing and i love the the self-awareness to to know and

not as you said imposed you know i've achieved in all these other areas

doesn't necessarily mean as you said you've got the skill set in in a different path but you can

as you said uh overlay some of those great qualities i i think and i said this in the

intro probably the first question we think leaders are really conscious about how they

positively impact others in their environment that to me is andrew gaze there's a positive

glow gazey whenever you're around mate it's it's it's again again i asked you that question is that

something that you you're aware of now and you think you know when i walk into a room

i'm going to give that that sort of positive glow to you

positive energy to others a hundred percent and that comes from my olympic games experiences where

i learned that one of the biggest and most significant lessons that came out that i

learned from my olympic games experiences is great things happen in an atmosphere of greatness

and in that atmosphere of greatness ordinary people can do extraordinary things and so my

challenge whatever it may be is when i'm in the group whether it's the team on the radio the team

in the commentary as a as as a coach somehow or other i have to create an atmosphere of greatness

never have i ever experienced in my sporting career and it's very easy to identify a shitty

atmosphere people pissing and moaning uh pointing fingers all that type of stuff is shitty and i

learned very on buying into that and venting and and looking at that and i've learned that

the negatives and venting that to think that that's going to help me never did joining in the

pylon never helped me trying to be divisive ah this coach is a dickhead yeah there's four guys

over here yeah i'm with them because i don't i'm not getting the opportunities i'm getting

it's not me it's the bloody coach i'm going to join this group over here

and and and be shitty and and bring about this shitty atmosphere

a great

leader understands that there are there there's always going to be those that have different goals

different objectives all those things but creating an atmosphere of greatness creating an atmosphere

of greatness where you can still be pliable enough to for people to work out their their problems and

have a have mechanisms for them to share their their issues so you have some type of resolution

is a better way to get the outcome

that

you're looking for create an atmosphere of greatness easy to create a shitty atmosphere

very easy go i can go anywhere and be a cancer and a lot of people are probably some of the times

unwillingly but if you know that each and every time somehow or other i've got to get this group

together and feel good about ourselves yeah you've got some problems but that's okay let's figure it

out let's be let's provide solutions

for people in a positive way far greater opportunity to have success than it is with the

other alternatives and a far happier life guys isn't it it's just the joy comes back and and uh

and you live that you know the joy comes out of you i think it's a great life lesson you've just

articulated there ladies are really conscious we see about you know if i've got a vision how they

go about creating and sharing that vision you spoke about atmospheres of greatness how have

you gone about creating and sharing that vision and how have you gone about creating and sharing that vision

and sharing the visions that you've wanted to achieve well for me uh and and that depends on

the circumstances whether it's family whether it's business whether it's um the sport coaching

all those different things is uh all always going in there and appreciating that uh we're all

different and the way in which people will approach certain environments or challenges

can sometimes be different accepting that uh sometimes a preconceived idea on how

things should be done as opposed to being open-minded and being objective about other

suggestions uh i think can be detrimental now you might always come back and you might come back to

your own preconceived idea about a certain thing but not having an openness and a willingness to

explore and see that there are always alternatives out there progress is made by innovation and new

things all the time and one of the gross criticisms of me is gazey sits on the fence

gazey sits on the fence he never makes a decision no no no gazey doesn't sit on the fence

gazey has talking in the third i love him in a third person gazey that's it but what i try to do

is understand that no no i've got a vision i've got a vision i've got a vision i've got a vision

i've got an opinion i've got a view but i'm not going to dismiss someone else's view until i

understand it appreciate it make an assessment on it and then go no that's for me i come into

situations often with a predisposed position but that doesn't mean you it's it's it's um you can't

change and i think that uh approach to leadership i think is really important

is it that

there are times where i can be as a coach highly dictatorial and that would fly in the face of

everything i just said but that's in that moment so we've made a decision we're going to run this

play and in order for us to have the best chance we are running and if you don't do it i'm going

to hold you accountable to that now after we've gone through it we look at the statistical data

we check out over a sample size we've gone through all the process

and you've shown me and demonstrated well there's an alternative absolutely let's make that change

and then we'll we'll incorporate those things but a lot of especially from a coaching standpoint

this is it i'm doing this come hell or high water because i know it's been successful i'm

going to do it i'm going to teach you how to do it and that is that is all there is to to do with it

well there's a time and a place for that but you also have to be

open-minded enough to understand and consider alternatives speaking about that open-minded

gaze you will see you know people who are like you have had success are very curious and

curiosity is a very common theme we're hearing a lot and through that that's how people really

think about getting better all the time that constant never-ending self-improvement how

does curiosity show up for you yeah huge i think my curiosity is a quest for information

um you know

i i and it's hard these days because it is it's a lot more um biased than it used to be but

when i was growing up my parents highly encouraged me to always seek out news

always go out there and and and seek out news and try to understand and give and they believe

give me a greater appreciation for the challenges of others

so

i am i'm sure because of their their influence always very curious about information and

alternatives i am i consider myself uh um it nerdish type i know nothing about it but i am i

am curious and i am enthralled with some of the shit that's going on these days when you can speak

into a uh say

give me a story about luke darcy and bugger me there's this give me

that world all that stuff mind-blowing all that so so i am really really curious because

i think it provides you with a lot of information now having said that there are a lot of people

out there that say it's complicated it's complicating us all it's it's changing our

values and all those types of things but like everything there's always a lot of people out there

out there and the level of interest Coming Carlos has always been there because they're making great

decisions but you're not showing up on the stage валverde maybe you've got a glass of wine that the

situation is going down but you're not focused at the moment to do something good i think it's

it's that sort of thing it's what makes it interesting

getting those ideas out if you're a nod 8

back

it's also only in united states so there's always a balance in there somewhere and being curious Award

leading people for

IT

i think helps you develop individually it keeps you young it keeps you appreciating other things that go on around you and sometimes you you'll look into it and be appalled of course you might throw this good reason as so

at each and the same time but it's motivate me

joy

the cutter it helps me doึ

education

but I feel better for it rather than just having this narrow view about,

well, this is the way it should be and that's all there is to it.

Yeah, interesting.

I can see that in every part of you guys.

It comes out in all of your work and your words.

Communicating with clarity is another dimension of leadership

I wanted to ask you about.

You communicate in a unique way.

There's always an entertaining part, whether you mean that to be the case

or any time you get in front of a microphone, I laugh and it makes me smile,

but there's always very clear through that message around what you want

to get across.

Is that strategic from you or the way you communicate or, again,

is it just a natural thing that's always been your thing?

I think it's one that I like to be disarming and sometimes I feel like

I'm not always a great communicator.

I feel like I watch people.

And the way in which they can use words to explain something

and I'm in awe of the way in which they can do it because I don't have those skills.

I don't perhaps have the vocabulary or sometimes know the way to express

a thought is that to try to provide a message that's a little disarming

and sometimes that can be filled with humour and sometimes it can be

filled with naivety, whatever.

But that in itself is a way to say, well, here's what I've got to say,

but I don't want it to be offensive.

I don't want to offend.

And that's what some people think is a shortcoming of mine.

Don't be afraid to offend.

Have your opinion.

Well, I do have my opinion, but I don't want it to be offensive

because someone else has a different opinion.

If someone else has a different opinion, I'm prepared.

I want to hear you out.

I want to hear what you've got to say.

But here's what I've got to say and I'll say it in a way that says,

well, okay, this is what I think, but I understand there might be

different points of view.

It can be highly frustrating and, like I said, a lot of people think

that it's a shortcoming.

But in my own head, it's probably being a little bit selfish in that

it does me no good.

It does my mindset no good.

If I'm trying to impose values that I have that are going to upset others,

I would like to think that they would see the same in me.

Some don't because they are very fixed on what they believe, you know,

certain values or certain rule or a certain thing should be

without having that flexibility.

And I respect it because it – but I personally doesn't give me.

So I say it can be a little selfish.

Sorry to interrupt.

I saw that in your answer with Ben Simmons and it wasn't a pointed question

in lots of ways, but I know and you know, if Andrew Gaze comes out

and says something, you know, controversial around Ben Simmons,

that filters back and I could see how conscious you are.

Now, you said what you needed to say.

I respect that.

I know your thoughts and you can hear it, but you're conscious around the energy

that's going to go that way and cause, you know, unnecessary upset.

So I know the criticism.

So I can see the criticism, but I can see you've been true to yourself, Gaze,

in everything as well, is it?

I haven't said – I'm going to live with that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I live with that.

I have no problem in being accused of offensive because I know in myself I'm not.

I can sit down and I can tell you on most things exactly where I stand,

but I'm not to the point where, like I said before, that can't be altered.

And I don't – I think if I'm Ben Simmons,

I put myself first.

I've been Ben Simmons' situation.

And absolutely, has he – has a lot of these issues been self-inflicted?

I believe some of them probably, yes.

But should he be vilified in the vitriolic nature of the way in which that people

have gone about it?

I don't think it's fair.

It's fair to have a criticism, absolutely.

And that's what they're – I can be critical, but not to the point

where it's vitriolic and just mean-spirited and all those things

because, you know, there may be other agendas in play.

Guys, we see collaboration is now something more than ever

that leaders are really conscious of how they collaborate.

Does that align with you these days?

Yeah.

I am a collaborator.

I love collaborating because I was born and bred in team sports.

The joy that I have got –

from individual recognition for anything I did –

is nowhere near the joy I get when you've done it as a collective.

So, again, it's selfish.

It may just be me, but I get far greater privilege being acknowledged

and honoured with a group than I am acknowledged and honoured

as an individual, of which, by the way, I have been honoured,

and acknowledged way beyond anything that I have done.

And it's a little – it's uncomfortable because I don't feel all the time

that it's worthy.

So collaborating and being able to share in other people's success

and joy and be honoured as a contributor to someone else's successes

and joy, I find way more rewarding than just being about me.

And I can see it, absolutely, in everything that you are.

Again, it's authenticity of you and the combined team's success.

I mean, the individual honours are more than well deserved,

and there are many, but it's great.

I think all of us that are lucky enough to play in a team,

you get that sense of wanting – it becomes a bit addictive being a good teammate,

being part of something bigger than yourself.

It's a special thing.

Who's been the greatest leader in your life?

My dad, no question.

And everything that I try to do, there is what would he do in this situation?

How would he handle this?

How can I do it in a way that he has done it?

Because, again, it's simple.

It's because I've seen the success that he's been able to generate.

I've seen the way – how impactful it can be of getting outcomes,

but also how impactful it can be.

In helping others and seeing how others become better

for what you have been able to contribute.

So that's, for me, his biggest asset is that obscenely humble.

Like, you know, I'm thrilled when people say,

geez, you're a humble sort of boy.

He is obscene, ridiculously humble.

But I see why.

And I get it and understand, like we were talking about how rewarding he is for me.

I get why he is like that because it makes him happy.

And finding happiness in other people's success is what makes me happy.

So, yeah, he has instilled that.

He has instilled that in me, either directly, indirectly.

I don't know how.

Maybe I was just – because it was in the DNA, I was born with it.

But that's what made me tick.

That's what I feel – and it is selfish.

That's what makes me feel good.

So that's how I want to lead.

I don't want to lead to the point to be honored as an individual leader.

I want to be lead, to be recognized.

I want to be recognized as contributing to the overall leadership.

I just wrote that down.

You know, finding happiness in other people's success is what makes me happy.

I think that would be a nice quote on your tombstone, Gainsey,

hopefully in another 40 years because –

Hopefully a long time.

A long, long time from now.

But it's a joyful thing to say.

And I love how you said it.

You said it's selfish because it's what I see made Dad happy.

It's what makes me happy.

You're not doing it for, you know, to be the most humble person on earth.

You're doing it because –

No, I am not.

It makes you happy.

I am not.

I'm not.

It's not about being humble.

It's about feeling good about myself.

Final question.

We're obsessed with collaboration in the work we're doing in Leadership, Gainsey.

And if you could collaborate with anyone on anything,

you've got a range of different passions and projects and family life

and business, clearly in basketball.

Has there been someone you thought, that's the person I'd love to connect and,

you know, collaborate with?

Well, I guess it goes back to my boyhood heroes.

And I see what Michael Jordan has done.

I would love to collaborate with Michael Jordan

because Michael Jordan has the Jordan brand.

I have the Gaze brand now.

And the stuff that I've –

500,000 pairs of runners sold here in Australia, Gainsey.

That's it.

For $24 on average, mate, I've done my own work.

And that is a great, great success story to make basketball shoes affordable

for people in Australia.

I've got four kids as well, Gainsey.

The Gaze brand has success.

Different scale to what Air Jordans have done.

But I'd like to see that collaboration.

Well, you know, and I would say because we're into a different –

it's different models.

He is dealing with the Uber elite where he's at.

And where I'm at with entry-level products.

But I'd like to collaborate with him because not only does that,

he's an owner of the Charlotte Hornets.

So he has – he's trying to build a successful team.

And I think, you know, a lot of people look at him and say,

well, the greatest player of all time.

But he's got some work to do as an owner of the Charlotte Hornets.

Not, you know, he's investing the money but still trying to figure out a way

to make that a successful program.

But I think with his – basically what I've read and seen of him,

with his drive and determination for success and his unrelenting commitment

to do the work.

And that's what's missing.

A lot of people can have the right attitude, the right goal.

But I'm not always aware of the sacrifice and the work that has to go into it.

But to see that, to see how that would apply in those other areas as an owner

and as a producer of basketball products and – well, it goes –

he's extended into other products now.

But he has collaborated well with Nike.

And what – their collaboration regarded outstanding.

But I'd love to collaborate with him and tap into his drive and the way in which

that he would do it because I think that the combination of what he brings

with that ruthless work ethic, which I think we both have,

but a different philosophy on how that could be achieved would be interesting.

What a beautiful.

Wonderful answer to finish on, Andrew Gaze.

I feel such a great privilege to sit down with you.

And any time you've come across your path, it's always been a joyful experience.

I always feel like you leave the conversation, Andrew Gaze,

you want to be a better person.

And that's literally the way I feel today, mate.

Thanks so much for sharing some of your wisdom.

There's a lot of wisdom in all that you've said.

And I appreciate, as I said from the start, taking the time.

Thanks, mate.

Oh, I love it.

And thanks for wanting to spend.

Spend some time with me.

I don't get as many invitations as I used to, but I appreciate it.

It's been a great chat.

I don't believe that for a second.

I do not at all.

Thanks, mate.

Thank you for listening to the Empowering Leaders podcast,

powered by temper, a mattress like no other.

And to make sure you don't miss an episode,

click subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.