This week's conversation is with a truly incredible young Australian, Ariane Titmuss.
You know the name from her remarkable achievements in the pool at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
She won two gold medals, defeating one of the greatest Olympians of all time,
Katie Ledecky from the US in the 400 metre freestyle.
I found this conversation incredibly valuable, not only from a sporting context,
but the hacks and life lessons you learn from a 21-year-old who has achieved incredible success.
What was unique about it and something that I loved was hearing Ariane's approach to life post-Olympics
and her unique perspective on chasing the perfect race
and how she sees the opportunity for constant and never-ending self-improvement.
I always find it incredibly interesting listening and learning and talking to sports people like Ariane
and how they approach their life and leading in their own world.
It's really the basis for the work that we do in our leadership business, Alita.
And we've had the great pleasure of working with incredible leaders like Ariane,
Ange-Posta Coglou, Mikel Arteta from Arsenal, just to name a few.
And we would encourage you to check out our signature Alita Connect program,
where we are collaborating with great leaders from industry, from sport, from arts, from social venture.
Incredible people with great stories like Ariane Titmuss, one of our greatest ever Olympians.
Head to alitacollective.com.
At 21 years of age, Ariane Titmuss has remarkably etched her name in the history books
as one of Australia's most decorated athletes.
Arnie, as you're affectionately known, you just told me you feel like you're in trouble
if we refer to you as Ariane.
It's an amazing story of success and dedication.
I really appreciate you joining me today.
No, thanks for having me.
It takes enormous dedication and discipline to swim the case that you did to push yourself
through that enormous pain every day to achieve what you have.
How have you found that sense of leadership and discipline within yourself?
I think that it came quite naturally to me.
I mean, I've been doing this since I was quite young.
I went on my first overseas trip when I was 14 for World Juniors.
So I think that it's just something I've grown up with.
And I had to really become used to it quite quickly, you know,
especially doing school as well as training as a professional athlete.
I think you have to kind of take it in your stride.
And if you want to achieve something great and, you know,
I understand that if this is the path I wanted to go down,
I had to get used to it pretty quickly,
handling the training and everything else going on in my life.
But I feel like, I don't know, I just, I think I'm a very scheduled person.
I am very routined.
And I think that in my nature, it came quite easy.
Before we just start, press record, I said, hello, how's your day?
And you said, oh, it's really quiet for me at the moment.
But you have been in the pool.
You've done a gym session.
And as you said, there's a bit of a gap between,
now and the world championships in July next year.
Do you still have like normal people, your days where you go,
I just don't want to get out of bed today?
Or do you find that easy?
I think those are the days I'm having at the moment.
I think after having a break and sleeping in and having to quickly set the alarm
to quarter to six, it's tough getting back into it.
But it's very rare that I wake up not wanting to go training
or it's very rare in the afternoon I wake up from a nap and I'm not motivated.
I feel really motivated to go to training.
And obviously in the middle of the year, it's such a grind and I'm tired all the time.
But I always believe there's a purpose for every session.
And I freak out if I'm not going to go to one.
You know, there's money in the bank that I haven't stashed.
So I never really, you know, feel like that.
And every session, especially in like swimming, every session has its purpose.
And I, yeah, I don't really want to miss one.
And Katie Ledecky and you get mentioned in the same sentence.
I think every time someone speaks to you at that stage,
she was a 15-time world champion, a five-time gold medalist
and one of the world's greatest ever Olympians.
And you beat her at the world championships.
But for me to then go into the Olympics, you know, a short time later,
in effect a couple of years later and win the 200 and 400
with all of that pressure coming your way,
there was so much expectation, performance anxiety.
I mean, can you pass on to us?
How did you cope with that?
All of us deal with pressure, but that was extreme pressure
and you seemed to take it in your stride.
Yeah, I think that looking back now,
I don't think I realised how much weight was on my shoulders.
And I think kind of being in a bit of a bubble because of COVID
prior to the Olympics in the lead up,
I think that we didn't actually see everything that was being said in the media
or we didn't really, we weren't really immersed in society.
So we weren't really feeling, you know, the angst around the Olympics.
And the expectation.
And so I think looking back now, that probably helped me.
But I like to think that the pressure that I put on myself
and that my coach puts on me is somewhat higher than external pressures.
And I think that if I can deal with that, then I can deal with anything really.
And, you know, I think I'm pretty good at sticking in my lane
and doing what I have to do.
But looking back now, it was a pressure cooker situation.
Olympics is like nothing else.
The rivalry between Katie and I, I know, was definitely highlighted.
And I did feel the pressure.
Like I was worried, you know, if I don't win, what the, you know,
what the reaction is going to be.
But I'm happy that it all went to plan.
And we fell in love with you and your story at the Tokyo Olympics.
And for me, not only the victory,
but the grace and the sportsmanship you show was equally as impressive.
I don't think you're even out of the pool and someone had asked you about your
arrival, who we just spoke about.
And I think the words attributed you were, I couldn't be here without her.
She set the standard.
It's impressive at any age to show that sort of composure and humility.
Where does that come from within you?
I think I'm quite a deep thinker.
I keep my emotions to myself.
You know, I don't really like talking about swimming.
I like to keep things inside.
And I'm not sure.
I just become composed in those really hectic situations, I think,
in other areas of my life.
I'm quite a flamboyant person.
I'm quite outgoing, extroverted.
But then I think with my job and my role as a swimmer,
I can really zone in and switch on and set my mind into the zone that it had
to be in for those events.
And I feel like that's definitely a tool that I have.
But for me, answering those questions about Katie was so easy because she's
definitely changed the way that females swim, middle distance freestyle.
And it was very easy for me to,
you know, compliment her and be grateful for the standard that she had set.
Because I don't think if she wasn't swimming as fast as she was,
there's no way that I would be swimming as fast as this.
So those questions are easy for me to answer.
You mentioned that part of your makeup is this ability under pressure to be
able to compartmentalize and that's swimming and that's what I do and keep
out the external noise.
Is there anything that you can share with us?
I mean, a lot of people use mindfulness and meditation or have got, you know,
abilities and techniques that really focus them in and they do that.
Is it, is there strategies that you use or is it just part of how you go about it?
I remember it would have been probably two years out from what would have been
Tokyo 2020 before the Olympics were postponed.
And I went over to Dean's house and I cooked him dinner and we sat down in his
lounge room and we wanted to make a set of like self affirmations that I could
read to myself every day, because I think that the inner belief in yourself is
the factor that can sometimes be make or break.
I think if you go into a race without the belief that you can win,
you're definitely not going to win.
So I think for me, especially racing someone who is what I believe the goat,
I think I had to have this extraordinary belief in myself to actually believe
that I could beat her.
So we sat down and wrote down all these self affirmations and it was in first
person. It was in, you know, Ariant hypnosis or I am,
and we made these cards.
And it was four different areas of my life.
It was who I am as a person, who I am as a swimmer,
what I'm proud of and what I have to work on.
And we made 10 of each and I printed them off and I had one in the glove box of
my car. So sometimes I would read them before going into a session.
I had one in my bedroom and, or just be, you know,
in the bathroom drawer and when I'm cleaning my teeth,
pull them out and look in the mirror and read them to myself.
it sounds stupid,
but I think when you start reading these things like I have the best backend in
the world, I, um, have the best strength in the world.
Um, I'm a good person. I'm a humble person.
I think reading these things,
eventually you start to become that and you,
you feel this extra belief in yourself.
And I think for me that really helped, you know, going to Olympics,
my mindset was, um, you know, for me to win, they have to beat me.
It's not, you know,
me having to beat them.
They have to beat me.
And I think that that's really the only way that you can have your mind going
into an Olympic final,
um, fighting for a gold medal.
I love you sharing that,
uh, and it's brilliant.
It's, it's far from a stupid and it's such a transferable thing.
They say we have 80,000 thoughts a day and the,
and the human consciousness often is towards the negative,
when that multiplies the self-doubt creeps in and the anxiety goes up.
to practice that in your car and your bathroom,
I love the way you and your coach,
who we really want to talk about,
uh, in a moment's time,
we're able to just systematically do that.
And also about you as a person too,
that you're bigger than that as a swimmer and,
to have you as the whole person,
was that really fundamental to you as well to say,
regardless of what happens,
I'm going to do my best and I'm still a great person is a
pretty profound thing to do as well.
swimming is definitely something that I've loved my whole life and I'm
very fortunate now that I've turned it into a career.
I've pretty much achieved everything I've wanted to in the sport,
but I'm also beyond that,
I want people to know who I am more than just Ariane Titmuss,
I believe I'm a lot more than that.
I try to portray that in the media as best as I can.
And when I'm meeting people,
I try to be my complete self and show people my other interests.
because swimming is not forever.
I probably will be done before the age of 30.
I think it's really important for people to understand that athletes also
have feelings as well.
beautifully said.
it's why so interested to talk to you as the whole person and the 21
incredible achiever,
but incredible leader,
because that comes out in all the,
the interviews I hear with you.
And I wanted to ask you about this.
It was interesting to you to say in some ways for you,
COVID and lockdown ended up being of benefit because you're so focused and
you're able to really drill into the Olympics coming up.
But for a lot of young people,
it's been incredibly traumatic time and time away from school.
teenage girls in particular,
the bracket in there,
the data we're seeing is that there was lots of,
eating disorders and challenges,
for you and your story grew up in Tasmania.
It's the most unlikely place,
for an Olympic gold medalist in some ways,
what advice would you pass on to perhaps those that have been through a
challenging time about,
following something they're passionate about?
I think looking at COVID firstly,
I was in denial of lockdown and training finishing.
I remember getting the message,
my phone I'd woken up from my nap.
I sleep from 11 to one every day on a,
on a day that I trained twice.
And I woke up and had all these messages saying trainings off the Olympics
And I didn't believe it.
I still went to the pool and,
Like the Olympics will happen.
I'm still training.
And it wasn't until,
the pool was not really open that I,
it kind of switched flicked.
And I pretty much cried for the next four days because I was so out
I saw it firsthand.
My sister was finishing year 12 in 2020,
and I don't think that there was anything more challenging than having to
finish your final year of school in lockdown.
she was quite sick before COVID even happened.
And so she wasn't at school.
And then for it to be pretty much most of the year,
doing lessons on a laptop and not really having a proper formal and not
all those end of year celebrations that you usually have.
I think it definitely puts definitely puts a damper on things.
I'm quite an outlier for,
my upbringing as a teenage girl,
I didn't care that I had to miss out on parties or I
didn't care that I wasn't doing what they were doing because I
was so invested in my swimming,
but I can see how socially,
COVID would have played a big role in people's self-confidence.
They can't get out,
And I think exercise especially is really good for your mental health.
So I guess my advice would be,
when you can't do the things that you would usually do,
switch your mind to focus on something else.
while I couldn't swim,
I tried to take up other things.
And as much as I wasn't great at it,
I tried knitting,
I tried coloring in like just really small things.
it keeps your mind busy and it gets your mind off,
stops thoughts wandering around in there.
And I think that's really important.
And I think it's also important as much as lockdown was hard.
I think it's also,
important to be able to,
important to be grateful and think about the things that you do have that
are still going for you in your life.
so I think that can always kind of lift you up a little bit.
what a great way to sum it up.
When you flick the mind to being grateful and particularly for those of us
living in a country like Australia,
and you don't have to look too far to see what a privilege it is,
even in the most challenging times.
you're often thinking about someone else.
And when you're in that mindset as well around supporting other people,
it's very hard to feel sad and,
and I love talking to people like you who've achieved extraordinary success,
but they're humble enough.
They don't necessarily see themselves as leaders and role models.
your story is the ultimate leader for your generation.
You describe yourself just then as an outlier because you know what,
you are a bit different in that you don't tend to worry about the stuff you're
missing out on because your focus is so strong.
Is that something that you embrace being,
being a young leader?
I think that I'm quite relatable,
to girls my age or growing up.
I've always seen myself as a very normal person.
I was finishing year 12 the year that I went to commonwealth games and,
one gold medals there.
And I guess it was kind of my breakout meeting the next week I was back at
in class with everyone.
And so I think I was relatable to people to see that,
doesn't matter how much you have on your plate.
Doesn't matter what's going on in your,
not in your life.
you can always kind of figure things out and,
and achieve your goals.
And I think for me,
I always get asked in school,
how did you do school and swimming and,
time management was a really big thing for me.
I think that's something that I think has helped people,
to juggle a lot of things in life was really hard.
I made the decision to do year 12 over two years,
I was away from school for 15 weeks,
the last year of school.
So I decided to do that and stay back.
I think that for me,
I am like I said,
I don't think I think the same as a lot of people,
I think I'm beyond my years because I've been on the national team with older
people around me since I was 16.
but I still think I'm quite relatable in the sense that I'm very normal person
Can you share with us,
managing your time and clearly for you,
when you're building up to a big mate,
every second of time is,
but you've still got to balance and live a normal life and you block out the
You sleep from 11 to one.
We just heard that before.
How do you go about managing your time?
What's the system use?
I think it's just prioritizing the things that are most important to you that
Like for me on Monday,
when I have swimming in the morning and swimming in the afternoon.
all up training those days is about eight hours.
swimming is my number one.
So my manager knows not to call me between 11 and one or,
everything I plan for that day is to make sure that I'm performance,
especially in that afternoon after the session in the morning.
Whereas Wednesdays and Fridays,
when I have nothing on in the afternoon,
it's about prioritizing other things in my life,
whether it's getting a coffee with a friend or catching up on some errands or,
getting a massage and doing those things.
I think it's really laying things out and prioritizing the more important
things in your life at that time.
I also try to keep as busy as I can.
I think I work better under pressure.
so I think that also helps.
So now post the Olympics,
it's incredible to see what you've done in that short space of time.
But you're a household name.
Now people recognize you down the street and everywhere you go.
how has life changed for you?
it's definitely changed.
I often go to the supermarket and it's,
it's actually a lot of the time,
older people that come up to me and go like,
I remember where I was when you race and it's like my Nana coming up and patting me on the back.
it makes me feel really good inside,
but I never thought that I would be one of those people.
that's not why I swam.
I never dreamt of the fame and the glory.
I just swam because I loved it.
And I had dreams that I wanted to achieve,
but I think it's quite humbling.
especially during the Olympics,
most of the country was in lockdown.
And the amount of people that have said to me what you knew on TV while we were stuck inside really brought some joy to our household.
it makes me feel good inside that I played a role in that.
I wasn't just swimming for myself.
I was genuinely swimming for the country.
that makes me feel really special.
I have to ask you about,
and your relationship.
it's one of the great celebrations we've ever seen.
I know you've spoken about it a lot.
I loved every bit of it.
It's a good point that you made.
challenged by lockdown at that stage and to see that sort of joy going on and,
rip his mask off and break the rules and,
did you see that coming in him?
Did you have a sense that he was going to go cocoa bananas like that?
I think it's very funny to see the reactions of everyone else that doesn't know Dean.
I was so surprised and,
it was so out there and I mean it was,
but that is totally what he is like every day.
Like there is always something happening,
happening at training.
And I think for us,
it was more just a massive energy release that he had.
if anyone knows Dean,
they know that he works harder than anyone.
Like he'll come into training and be like,
couldn't sleep last night.
I was up at 2 AM,
you didn't do the race,
like he's just completely invested in,
And so for us to have a plan for years and for me to execute the race almost
I think it was just this release of energy that,
Ava overcame him and it came out and,
he gets annoyed when people ask him to do it again because he goes like,
it just happened.
Like I didn't even know what was happening.
but I'm glad that people got to see that side of him because,
I think sometimes he gets misunderstood as this crazy hard task master who sets
insane sessions and has incredibly high standards of which he does,
but he has a very soft side to him and a funny side.
I'm glad that people got to see that.
And I love the message for it too.
brilliant celebration and joy.
I played sport in an era where you weren't allowed to celebrate a win
because it looked like you were getting carried away.
And only if you won a premiership at the end of the season,
And for those that didn't win one,
did that mean that you didn't have any success or any joy along the way?
And so I think it's such a healthier,
And we see the next generation do generally because that's what it's about,
It's about enjoying those moments.
If you can't celebrate what you achieved at that time,
I'm not sure when,
when you ever can.
I thought it was just,
it was just a magic moment.
I love hearing you talk about it and share it.
you'd bump into people and you had a pool in your house that you would tell
people I'm on my way to the Olympics.
You had that vision at that young age.
I was pretty set in my way on,
on becoming an Olympic swimmer and becoming Olympic champion.
I did a lot of sports growing up.
road and I got to high,
I got high school.
And the horses weren't getting much,
we sold them all and swimming kind of became my number one.
I for sure wasn't shy in telling people that swimming is what I wanted to
And I wanted to be on the national team and,
looking back now,
it's so naive to say something like that at 12 years old,
because you have no understanding of the work that goes into becoming
Olympic champion.
even now looking back on the prep that I did for Tokyo,
I can't even fathom some of the things that I did.
and what I'm going to have to do,
for the next Olympics.
I'm proud that I was,
and I had that confidence in myself to say that at that age.
I stuck with it and I did it.
A lot of people will probably turn their nose up or,
a bit of tall poppy syndrome,
that type of thing.
I definitely copped it.
being a young swimmer coming through and trying to keep up with the boys
and not being afraid to take it to the older guys.
but I'm proud of myself for,
that work ethic and,
and really sticking with it.
there's a perfect storm.
It seems when you listen back to you talk and,
as an old saying,
be careful what you wish for,
because it might just come true.
But to have that dream and then,
the positive affirmations you talked about,
and then to have a coach that's equally as fanatical,
and then the capacity to do those sessions and push through the pain,
things like you achieved don't happen by mistake,
you described the outlier part resonates with me because,
not everyone has got the capacity to do it,
but I think we can learn so much just even our daily lives.
If there are things,
we want to achieve or we want to be a better version of ourselves that,
do you see that applying to other areas?
We've heard you talk about you're passionate about your cooking.
your family influence is enormous.
You have got a range of other interests.
Do you see those skillsets applying to,
to you outside of just the pool?
people always ask me like,
how'd you learn how to train hard or how'd you teach yourself to,
I guess be fanatical about something.
And I think it's in your makeup and I'm,
I'm like it in a lot of areas.
I'm definitely not as competitive as I am with swimming as I am with
anything else like that.
But I think anything that I do do in life,
I want to make sure I do it properly.
And I say to myself,
if there's a hundred stones to turn over,
you turn over a hundred.
I could never go into anything knowing that I could have done it better.
that's something that I don't want to,
leave the sport or leave anything behind with any regrets.
I think it's really important to put your best foot forward in,
in everything you do.
And I hope people can,
learn from that as well.
such a compelling thing to listen to firsthand and,
congratulations again,
that everything that you've achieved,
I want to ask you a handful of questions around leadership.
And I love your story of,
of leadership and dimensions of what we see great leadership and great
whether it be an Olympic gold medalist like you or someone running a,
a social venture or a business person or someone from other sports as
And we think most people who achieve things like you have got a great
sense of self leadership.
I can certainly hear that,
coming out in all that you say,
does that resonate with you?
the self leadership idea?
And I think that leaders especially don't need a label to be a leader.
I am not as such a leader on the team.
I've always been a younger athlete on the team,
but I guess now I've been on the national team for a while now.
becoming part of that leadership group,
but I think you can lead,
without having to say anything through your work ethic.
you can be a leader by,
just going there,
putting your best foot forward,
doing the best you can for the day and creating a great environment around
I think that's been a leader without even knowing it.
So I think it's for sure being,
sure of yourself and being empowered within yourself,
I think can create leadership qualities and can help others around you.
I love what you said,
around not needing a title to be a leader.
And that's exactly what we,
we sense it's the old model of having to be the boss and the hierarchical model.
We see the impact someone you could have at 15 years of age,
Arnie in a swim team,
just by your behaviors and the way that you're training would have,
shown enormous leadership in that discipline and sense of self.
is a great story.
We see leaders also positively,
or thinking about how they can positively impact others in their environment.
I suppose your sport is a solo sport at one level.
You join a swim team and you get into relays and you compete against,
sometimes people in your own squad for,
So how do you go about positively impacting others in your environment?
swimming definitely can be a lonely sport.
I'm part of a huge squad.
We're one of the biggest high performance programs in the country.
I think we have about 20 of us.
And I think for me,
something that I always want to stick to,
is it doesn't matter who you're racing and who your competitors are.
Don't look at them as a competitor personally.
that's something that's really important.
There's girls in my squad that I race and that are competitors of mine,
or there's younger girls that are coming up.
And I think some people can get caught in the trap of,
taking their competitiveness out on someone,
who they are as a person,
but who they are as a swimmer and,
might not treat them the way they deserve to be treated.
I try to separate those two things.
And I think everyone in the squad does that really well.
I think that that creates a great environment.
And speaking of leaders,
I think that shows great leadership qualities as well.
So I feel very fortunate that I'm in that environment.
Swimming's bizarre when you think about it,
a relay of four girls coming together to be part of one team,
to do something great.
And usually those four girls are,
tough competitors racing for the two,
individual spots.
And then you've got to come together and work as a team and,
So I think that learning to separate personal from competitive is,
is really important.
I love the way that you go about that,
and I'm sure it's going to resonate with lots of people listening to this,
that even in our own workplaces or our own schools,
we can sometimes,
get competitive with other people.
And that causes a breakdown in relationships.
no one could be more competitive than you,
and you've got this great rival we love talking about,
but there wasn't any nastiness or you didn't feel the need to stare her down
in the warmup room or,
or do anything like that or same in your lane.
And so I think you're showing people that how you can be as competitive.
is a great thing,
but you don't need to take that out negatively on someone else.
is that a fair summation of the way you think or?
I think it helps that I'm a distance freestyler.
I think that the sprint boys may be a bit different,
but maybe us distance girls,
a bit more subdued in the,
in the marshalling room,
I think you want to save your competitive energy for when you need it.
I'll say good luck to Katie that one minute before we walk out on pool deck to race.
I think that that makes me feel good inside knowing that I've said good luck to my biggest rival.
good luck back to me.
And then you go out there and you really do your job and,
and show what you,
what you're made of.
And that's really important to me.
We see leaders are really conscious of how they create and share their vision.
You had a dream as a 12 year old to be an Olympian,
and then you don't become an Olympic gold medalist twice without,
a really clear vision.
Can you tell us about how you've gone about that,
and what sort of things you've put in place to,
most people know my story.
I guess I grew up in Launceston and Tassie and swimming down there is definitely not a dominant sport,
but I feel very fortunate that my family,
saw something in me at 14 years of age,
which looking at a 14 year old now they're in year eight.
I think to myself,
how did my parents have the guts to pack up everything and move into state really?
a big shift and a big move for us.
I was very vocal in,
in telling mom and dad that swimming was what I wanted to do.
And I wanted to give it a red hot crack and I feel enormously grateful that they,
they backed me and we packed up and moved to Brisbane and moved,
moved up here to Queensland and,
started training with Dean.
And I think that was one big major factor that was part of the plan that has led me to where I am today.
But I think I've always been quite a,
a goal driven person.
it must've been my first national team.
I made the qualifying times came out and I,
I wrote them on pieces of paper and stuck them on my roof and I'd look at them going to sleep every night,
I'd type up like little goals for the month and then,
bigger goals and goals for the next few years.
And I think that it's important to not just make big goals,
but little goals that are going to help you make those big goals.
And so I've always been quite a,
someone that likes to keep those in the front of my mind.
I think if you get lost in training and you're having a bad session or your,
your mind's wandering a little bit,
I think having those goals in there really helps you realign your focus.
So that's something that,
I can't talk through like the whole plan of everything.
certainly there are a few ways that I think I've found,
found myself to where I am today.
I didn't want to touch on the family piece,
picking up on the back of what you said,
I'm always fascinated in this and I love talking parenting in this podcast and,
and for your family commitment to move the whole family,
to follow your dream.
you're in year eight,
you're a 14 year old.
there's a fair bit of pressure that comes with that.
You would be very aware that your family,
mom and dad had to find new jobs.
Your younger sister had to leave school as well,
some of the parenting I'm a father of four and always conscious around,
your love and support for your kids,
but not wanting to overlay your wishes on them as well.
did that subtlety exist there?
Clearly it's worked incredibly for you,
but did you feel that pressure or was it always,
we're just here to support you?
even if in two years time you wanted to give it up,
did you feel like,
that option was available to you?
I literally hit the jackpot with the best parents for athletes.
My mom was a sprinter,
track and field athlete.
She kind of has the mindset of an athlete and my,
did sport as well.
But regardless of that,
I think that they were the perfect parents to parent a professional athlete.
I think that they,
had a great balance of being enough of a driving force to keep you motivated,
but never became the coach.
stuck to the sidelines.
the question about,
packing up and moving to Queensland because of my swimming,
obviously it was a massive sacrifice to my family.
My dad lived in Tassie still for six months while we moved up here while he was still looking for work.
So that was a big sacrifice.
We literally had all our furniture and storage for 12 months.
We lived in this tiny apartment.
it was a huge decision,
but not once did I ever feel that I had to perform because of the sacrifice of my family.
that's something that I'm very grateful for.
And I've always said that if I said I wanted to retire tomorrow,
they would not stop me.
parents that come home from a competition.
And obviously that ask how I go,
but there'd never be parents that would be too involved in,
write down the splits or understand what's going on.
I think those parents are damaging to athletes.
I feel really grateful that my parents have just created an environment for me that has been helpful.
And making sure I get the best recovery.
I've got a stable environment to make sure that training is my number one priority,
ever felt the pressure to perform.
what a brilliant,
you hit the jackpot,
When you get that combination,
the love and support,
but also not the,
with four kids are all active in sport and the ugly parenting is alive and well,
it's often well meaning and where people just care so much about their kids,
but it spills over into junior sport.
And I'm sure you would have seen that at swimming,
but in junior football,
we see parents screaming at umpires and this crazy obsession with winning an under nine grand final.
putting one kid on the bench for the whole guy.
And then have you seen a bit of that?
if you hit the jackpot,
but it's out there,
A lot where we need to probably reeducate parents a little bit along the lines of what you,
you benefited from.
I think a lot of parents want to live through their kids,
And I think in swimming,
you do get those,
I don't want to say it,
but crazy parents and the coaches have to have to deal with them.
And unfortunately most cases that I've seen the swimmer gets burnt out and they're done by the age of 15,
because the pressure has been too much,
or it's the parents don't think that,
the coach is doing enough for them at training and they're taking them home and making them do extra.
And I think that it's just recipe for disaster really.
And I think that,
I know that my parents,
my parents have so much knowledge on,
to parents and athlete.
And I think it could certainly help a lot of people.
And I think because I was quite young and on the rise,
I didn't make the national team at 21.
I've been representing Australia since I was 14,
So I think actually having to parent through those really important stages of life,
growing up socially as well,
going through high school,
I think that balancing act,
I'd have to speak to them,
it's another project I'm interested in actually sharing those stories of what great parenting looks like as well,
particularly around around sport,
which has got a bit out of hand in what I've seen in recent years.
We see leaders are really curious.
The word comes up a lot,
curiosity and through that curiosity,
it's how they approach getting better.
They're learning and development and constantly seeking improvement.
Does that resonate with you?
The thought of curiosity?
people always ask me,
especially after the Olympics,
winning Olympic gold,
you've won Olympics.
What else can you do now?
and the answer was,
I haven't got a long course world record yet for an individual race.
And that kept me motivated.
And then I put my head down this year and broke the world record in the 400.
And then the question was,
you've actually done everything now.
what keeps you motivated?
And it's the personal,
gratification and the pursuit of perfection,
really that that keeps me in the sport.
And I think that it's also trying to find the limit within yourself.
And I believe that I've got so much more left to give to the sport,
not just in the pool,
but outside the pool.
and that's why I do it.
I guess curiosity is in there.
I'm curious to see how good I can,
how much faster I can get.
I don't want to put a limit on how much I can achieve and how much I can get
in the hard times of in training,
it's obviously tough in the moment,
but when you're finished and you've achieved something great in that session,
the satisfaction of,
doing something great in training is like no other.
and I love that feeling.
So I guess that's why,
I'm sticking at it.
I can see the smile come to your face.
when my mind was going in,
this is going to feel like off a tangent,
so Donald Bradman,
the most outstanding Australian,
and used to listen and read a lot about what he would talk about,
which was he could make 250 in an innings in England.
And the papers would talk about it as the most masterful innings that had been,
they'd ever seen,
but he would come off and he would know the six mistakes in his mind that he could get better at.
that might've been,
he still hit the ball for four,
but he wanted it to go three meters to the left of where it was.
That was what he was chasing in his mind,
And he was trying to play the perfect innings all the time.
and hearing you speak,
I can see that chasing perfection may be a dream.
That's the impossible dream,
but certainly gets you out of bed.
I've got a pretty funny story actually.
when I became world champion for the first time in the 400,
once you get out of the pool,
you do a little bit of warm down,
you do the metal ceremony,
And then I had a press conference and I hadn't gone through the race with Dean.
you look at your splits and your stroke rates and I just saw the time I did,
which I thought was great.
looking back at the actual race now,
I didn't really race it the way we had planned.
And I remember I was sitting up,
at the front answering questions and,
and Dean walks into the room and he,
when he walks in my face lights up,
like I hadn't seen him since the race.
And he walks to the back of the room where the cameras were,
and he's just mouthing,
because the race that I put together,
wasn't the way that we'd planned.
And I had just become world champion beaten Katie Ledecky for the first time in
like nearly 10 years.
it was dog shit because we have two standards,
shit and outstanding.
I'll never forget that moment.
but I think that's a good way to sum up our relationship.
And how did you cope with that?
at the moment where there is some celebration,
did we were upset by that?
did you see it for what it was or are you smiling about it now?
was it a bit of a body block?
I agreed with him.
you were talking about Sir Dawn Bradman and I'm the same.
I look back at races and go,
I could have done that there.
Like I could have fixed that easily.
that excites me though.
Like looking back at races from the Olympics,
I can see so many areas,
areas for improvement.
in the moment you really have to like relish,
whenever all that time passes and you look back on races now,
I think it's exciting to see,
areas for improvement.
what a great story and an incredible insight into the person that you are and
your coach at the same time as well.
We see leaders are really,
understanding of how they communicate and,
and talking to you today,
you can see even in pressure,
you've got a great,
as we mentioned before,
composure and you get your words out and in a brilliant way for such a
have you put some time and effort into how you communicate?
I grew up with a dad who's a journalist.
I guess I've been exposed to it,
but I think potentially growing up in Tassie and,
as an 11 year old becoming state champion,
I got the back page of the paper.
And so I think I was exposed to the media quite young.
and so I feel like I handle it quite well,
I've never really,
it's never really been something I've worked on.
I think it's just in my nature of being able to speak to people and meet
and mingle quite easily.
I don't get camera shy.
I think that's something I'm quite proud of.
if I walked into a room and I didn't know anyone,
I think I could easily start a conversation with someone and get to know
them and what's going on in their life.
that's exciting though.
I think it's always really cool to,
learn things about other people and,
and meet people that you would never usually get to meet.
we see leaders are really conscious of collaboration now more,
and listening to you and even before we started,
I asked you about,
you've been asked a lot of questions and you said,
I see what I do as a partnership.
you make sure that the Dean comes up in conversation,
it is a collaboration in lots of ways.
Is that how you've approached the whole performance for you?
just you out there doing it,
that you've got a team behind you and how have you gone about it?
certainly Dean is my biggest,
biggest partner through all of this.
There's obviously a lot of other people that play a big role.
but he is someone who we made this deal.
if he writes the program the best that he can,
I will execute it the best that I can.
And so it certainly is a partnership.
I couldn't do it without him.
he's quite an eccentric personality and I don't think that he would work well
with some people,
because he does set such high standards and he has quite an out there
but for some reason,
he just found the key to me and,
we just clicked straight away.
And I think our personalities just gel perfectly.
you'd think that they'll probably clash because I'm quite,
opinionated and out there and,
but it just works.
And I think probably because of our work ethic,
we work really well together.
he gets quite frustrated if he sees things not being done the best that they
And so I try to do everything as best I can to keep the peace as well.
but it's more so with us,
it's about making deals.
I've just come back from break and he said to me,
are you giving me the green light to go?
Like we've got less than two years.
Are you giving me the green light to go and put you under pressure?
go through those hard moments again.
it's not even a question,
he's got to do it,
he's got to do to get the best out of me.
And some people can't handle that,
I'm open to anything to get,
get more out of me and,
and reach my potential.
he just knows how to,
And I love hearing that he does ask that question,
and he knows the answer,
but without asking it,
you're not part of the process,
I've signed up to that.
He's done his best and he's working overtime and not sleeping at night.
I'm going to hold up my end of the bargain as,
we're a bit obsessed with leadership and leadership stories,
but in the past that wouldn't have been a coach relationship is having you part of the,
once you sign on,
I'm assuming all bets are off,
you then do your best,
it sounds like you're included in it,
he always says that,
I want to win at national age and he goes,
if you want to win,
then you have to understand what that's going to take.
are you ready to sign on to what I'm going to have to do to get the best out of you?
training happens and they get put under pressure and they've got to repeat things and,
and they don't like it.
you're the one that came to me and said,
do you want to win?
you telling me you want to win is the worst thing you can tell me,
the right to go after you and try and get the best out of you.
I love being pushed to the limit.
I love doing the repeats.
I love having the feeling of knowing that while my competitors are done training and,
or asleep on the other side of the world,
I'm here doing the extra.
I think that's why we work so well together.
these two final questions and where you might head with them.
But I've been asking these,
a lot of people about the privilege of sitting down with,
listening to you today.
Final two questions.
Who's been the greatest leader in your life?
Dean is definitely there,
she is more competitive than me.
she stands for what she believes in.
And I think that she has just been,
she just knew how to be the perfect mom to me,
as an athlete and also as a,
she'd never forgot who I was as a person,
as well as who I,
who I am as a swimmer.
she's an incredibly hard worker as well.
And I think she set the standard for me.
So I'd probably say my mom,
Dean is definitely there though.
I look up to him like my,
my second dad and,
and I trust him with my life.
What a great answer.
and I think I think it's,
it's a great story about,
about that context of,
your mom just treading that line beautifully between inspiration,
but not overlaying,
her world on your world.
an incredible story in itself.
if you could collaborate,
Arnie with anyone in any area of your life.
we've seen and read about your passion for a range of different things,
from cooking and you might head to,
or is there someone in your world that you thought I'd love to,
spend some time with them and that would make me,
person in any area of your life is there someone that springs to mind um I'm trying to think really
I mean I love hearing um other athletes stories and and what they have gone through um to get to
where they are I mean someone who I've spent a little bit of time talking to is Ian Thorpe I mean
um I feel like he was under enormous pressure at such a young age as well and um you know learning
a little bit about him and and getting to know him I've really loved um but in terms of collaborating
I mean I'm not really sure I'm always just open to learning new things and finding new ways to
get better and um sometimes people pop into your life for a reason and and you know I believe that
everything happens for a reason and so um I'm not going to put my finger on anyone but um we'll see
I love your open do you follow other sports I mean Ian Thorpe uh makes a lot of sense doesn't
he given what he's done
and the person that he is but do you do you follow other sports you take inspiration from
other athletes in other parts of the world um I mean my biggest idol um in the world is Rafa Nadal
um you got to meet recently didn't you yeah I got to meet him and I um recently went to his academy
in Spain which was amazing but I look up to him I believe he has the he's the epitome of what high
performance is just his attitude to tennis I I love his passion and so um yeah I definitely follow
him and I think he's a great guy and I think he's a great guy and I think he's a great guy and I think
I got corrupted by the Hawks my um my whole family on my mom's side dating back to my grandfather's
father is Richmond all the way down the family um and I got corrupted it was footy colors day
in prep and half the class was Hawthorne and so um I went and I switched to Hawthorne and
and still go for the Hawks um but living in Queensland you don't really get to see
the foot the footy as much up here so it's more
rugby league up here um which I've started to get into a little bit but um not so much I I
definitely follow AFL more I love your language they're corrupted uh by the Hawks who had their
home second home base down in Launceston where we grew up and they did a good job of uh getting a
lot of that part of uh of Tassie on board with the Hawks I have four kids we live in Hawthorne
Arnie and that'll go to junior clinics and 90% of the kids are wearing Hawthorne gear and they'd
come home and they'd say do you know what I I think I want to back for Hawthorne I'd say that's
fine a new family and a new house because there's no way that's ever going to happen that was one
thing I wasn't prepared to uh to bend on at all um it's been uh unbelievable to chat to you I love
hearing your story and and getting an understanding of your mindset and and what's in front is equally
as exciting for the rest of your life thanks so much for for taking the time it's a it's been
really inspirational I really appreciate it thanks Tass thanks for having me Empowering
Leaders was presented by me Luke Darcy produced by Matt Dwyer with audio production by Darcy
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