David Jacoby On His Nets Optimism Why Russell Westbrook Is Unfairly Criticized And Working With Jale

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If they were like, do you want Chris Paul for nothing? I'd be like, no. Vibe killer.

Yes, we would probably win an extra 15 games a season, but like killing the vibes. Don't do that.

What's up you guys? I'm Rachel Demita and welcome to the Courtside Club.

Today we have producer, writer, TV personality, and podcaster.

You guys have seen him on The Ringer and ESPN.

A true OG in sports media, David Jacoby. Welcome to the Courtside Club.

Thanks so much. I'm so happy to be here in the Courtside Club. I'd be like Jack Nicholson.

It took me a while to pin you down and get you as a guest on the show,

even though we've been talking about it for a few months.

We met at Jalen's event in Detroit, so I'm glad that we get to connect, even if it is virtually.

Absolutely, but it is one of those things where it's like we met at Jalen's thing in Detroit,

but in the way the world and my phone works now,

I feel like I've known you for years. You know what I mean?

True, true, true. And I've actually been watching your guys' show since like way back.

Because right, it started as a YouTube show first.

Yeah, we started, it went podcast in, I want to say, September of 2011.

And then we were on YouTube probably that later that fall.

YouTube for a long time, then radio, then late night ESPN2,

then afternoon ESPN2, then ESPN1. It's just kind of like gradually building.

But we had no idea what we were doing in the beginning whatsoever.

But I loved it. I mean, I fell into YouTube and obviously I'm still kind of in this digital space.

Like this is my world. So when you guys first started, I was like,

this show is dope because it was so different than what a lot of sports media was doing.

So anyway, I'm glad to have you on my show today, especially with NBA season also kicking off.

I want to dive into the NBA. You're down.

So down. In the Fort Quartzite Club, of course.

Right.

What teams are you...

Do you have your eye on right now?

I don't want to jump right into, you know, the Lakers-Nets conversation that everybody else is talking about.

Let's go conference by conference, right?

I'm really...

The Eastern Conference is intriguing most to me because...

We'll get to the Western Conference, but it does feel like it's kind of like Warriors,

then like who's going to challenge the Warriors, right?

But in the Eastern Conference, there's like this tier of like Bucs, Celtics, Sixers.

I'm a Nets believer.

So we don't have to have the full Nets conversation, but I'm a Nets believer.

So I'm putting them in the top tier.

But like, would you be surprised if either one of those four teams were sort of like in the NBA Finals?

Like, not really.

And then there's this second tier, which is like the most intriguing to me.

They're like, I'll put like the Hawks, Raptors, Heat.

I'm doing this off the top of my head, so I'm probably like, you know, some fan base is upset with me right now.

Yeah, can we put the Cavs in there?

Can we just throw them in there?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. There you go.

Exactly.

Exactly.

See, we always say this on Jen's Goal.

If I'm ever making a list off the top of my head, just know there's like an asterisk.

Like, I'm going to forget somebody important.

And yeah.

Those four teams to me are really the most intriguing.

Like, which one of those four teams could have a great regular season and host a round one?

Which one of those four teams could I see four months from now that I don't see either one of those four teams get to the Finals?

But that could change over the course of time.

You know what I mean?

Like, in four months, could I see one of those four teams like truly being a contender to like win the Eastern Conference?

So, like, those are the four teams in that spot, especially like in the whole league.

But in the Eastern Conference is where my intrigue is like most piqued.

Before we go to the Western Conference.

I want to go back to you said you're a Nets believer.

Yes.

Why?

Well, the thing is, is like, I've also been a Nets believer like the previous two preseasons.

You know what I mean?

So, like, I've been a Nets believer like before Katie and Kyrie were playing when they were like doing the walk on the sideline.

I was like, this team is so much fun.

You know what I mean?

It's like, look at Karis LeVert.

But it's just like, I have been that way.

And to be fair, like, I also did believe that like Russell Westbrook would work on the Lakers.

You know what I mean?

Like, the discourse now is just like, who in the world thought this is going to work?

But in the background, I'm kind of like, yeah, I thought it was going to work.

You know what I mean?

So, I'll like die on that hill.

But when you look at it, it's like, we've got Kyrie Irving and Katie.

All right.

We know what they are.

Right?

And then Ben Simmons, like, God, he can't shoot.

So, well, when you got Joe Harris and Seth Curry and Kyrie Irving and Katie, like, handling the ball, like, you don't need to shoot.

Like, if you shoot a jump shot, that's probably like a bad shot for your team.

And their problem last year was defense.

And Ben Simmons is a great.

He's a great defender.

Ben Simmons is great in transition.

Like, I'm high on Ben Simmons as a basketball asset.

Like, the last full season he played, he was the number two defensive player in the year.

And, like, last time I checked, 50% of the time you're out there, you're playing defense.

And, like, oh, he can't shoot.

It's like, yeah, he can't shoot.

He's not a great, like, point forward playmaker with the ball either.

Well, guess what?

Like, if he's dribbling more than three times, that means that Kyrie or Katie isn't.

Like, I just really believe in Ben Simmons.

And now, granted, I have watched the first few games of the season.

And I'm just kind of chalking it up to, like, you know, let him, like, figure.

But he hasn't made me look great.

I think he's played 24 minutes and has, like, 75 fouls.

I don't know how that's even possible.

But he's done it somehow in the first few games.

But I'm a big believer in Ben Simmons and the Nets.

And I say this every season.

And I look like a fool at the end of the season every season as well.

Yeah, but I think you're talking a lot about the players on paper, which I think a lot of us do, right?

Until we start seeing these teams get together, right?

Even the Lakers, for what they have now, doesn't look that bad on paper.

And then when you see them on the court, you're like, what is going on?

But I do think for the Nets, you know, it's very, very early times in the season.

So I would give them maybe, like, 10 to 15 games.

And we can see how Ben Simmons is gelling with the team.

And somebody else talked about that, too.

Saying, like, well, he's been around the team.

Chemistry shouldn't be the issue.

Do you agree with that?

Or do you think because they're not on the court together?

I've had, like, very few surgeries in my life.

Like, I think I had, like, a spleen screen puncture.

I put in and, like, my nose broken back a couple times.

But, like, the idea that he had back surgery is a bit of a concern.

You know what I mean?

Maybe it's like, all right, glass half full.

Like, he had back surgery.

He's working his way back.

And, like, glass half empty.

Like, the dude had back surgery, like, a couple months ago.

You know what I mean?

Like, back surgery is a big deal.

And if you had back surgery, that means there was something wrong with your back in the first place.

So I could definitely play both sides of that coin.

But it is, I'm glad you kind of bring up the, like, roster thing.

Because when you do look at, like,

paper, which we do in the offseason, it always looks so good.

And then you look at it in person.

And obviously, like, you know, they just got Harris back and, like, Seth Curry and that.

And you're like, oh, yeah, not the deepest team.

You know?

Like, look at these third quarters.

These, like, second units are not, you know, exactly, like, blowing my socks off in the way that some of the other teams do.

So, you know, I think it's, that's why one of the things I think is so important is, like, watching the games, not just, like, looking at the last course.

I just want to say, it upsets my wife a lot.

Like, I have to tell her, like, yes, yes, I'm up.

I'm up watching the Thunder, you know, play, like, the Mavs.

Like, one in the morning.

No, I can't go to bed.

This is work.

This is work, babe.

I mean, I'd kind of be pissed staying up to watch the Thunder versus the Mavs, too.

Which, by the way, like, I'll always have a soft spot for OKC.

But, you know, times have changed in the past seven years.

But I do want to talk about the Lakers a little bit.

You brought them up.

Another team, like, we talked about.

They have superstars on paper.

Westbrook is one of those guys that the media has talked about a lot lately for not a lot of good reasons.

Do you think?

Do you think that he has been unfairly criticized lately in the past year or so?

It's an interesting way of phrasing that.

Does he deserve criticism?

I would answer that question, yes.

Has he been unfairly criticized?

I would say yes, just from the sheer volume.

Like, it becomes this thing where it's like Russ becomes a lightning rod for all of the criticism.

When, like, LeBron, after game one, my guy, like, went to the press conference in front of microphones and reporters and was like, yeah, we don't have shooters.

Like, we're not shooting lasers out there.

I've never heard of that term before and used it in basketball, but we all knew what he meant.

You know what I mean?

It's like, yeah, we, like, no one can shoot the effing ball on the team.

Like, what do you think is going to happen?

And I was like, wow, like, that feels much more like a March criticism.

Like, when he does that, like, criticize the team before the playoffs move he used to do.

But I was like, after game one, for him to be saying that, like, guess what?

There's no shooters on the team was, like, really indicative and something that deserves, quote, unquote, like, more criticism than, like.

The problem isn't Russell Westbrook.

You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, he is part of the problem.

And, like, there are.

There is a full pie of sort of blame to pass out.

But my man has a very healthy portion, but, like, he's not eating half of that pie.

The thing that I don't understand was that he was coming to the Lakers not to be the one, two, one or two guy.

He was going to be the third option regardless.

So I've never seen the media in general come down so hard on the third option on a team who's also out of his prime.

And who did not play as bad as everybody made it seem.

Like, he played last year.

Like, yeah, maybe it wasn't his best season that he's ever had.

And he hasn't had the greatest start to this season.

But it's just so confusing to me as a consumer of media, like, how hyper-focused a lot of these places get with the Lakers narrative.

Which, they're not a good team.

Unless they make some big changes, they're not going to be a contender.

I think that's pretty obvious.

But we're not harping on what the Detroit Pistons need to do.

Like, who they need to move.

So it's like.

You know what I mean?

And I get LeBron.

Like, he is the greatest of our era.

So maybe that's why it's this hyper-focus.

But it's weird to me, I guess.

But they have, like, LeBron James in purple and gold.

And that's why there is so much discourse about them.

And I understand that.

But, like, it's something I love to think about.

But the discourse becomes about Russell Westbrook and not really about, like, what's wrong with the Lakers.

And I think quickly what's going to happen.

I'm just going to give you a little, like.

Like, a vet prediction here.

Okay, let's hear it.

It's going to start becoming about LeBron passing Kareem.

You know what I mean?

Because he needs to score.

He has to be, like, a legit 20, 25-point contributor night after night.

Play 60 or 66 games for it to happen.

And I think that that is going to be the focus because it's such a cool record.

You know what I mean?

It's going to be like, I've scored more baskets than anybody else in the history of the league.

And I'm also, like, third in assists.

Like, it's just such a big deal that that will be his core.

It's going to be the culmination of this season.

And another prediction, he could be, like, one point away and still have, like, three road games.

He will sit those three road games out to make sure it happens at the Staples Crypto Blood Center or whatever we're calling it now.

Like, that is going to happen in Los Angeles, right?

Yeah.

Like, that has to happen in Los Angeles with Kareem there and, like, all the celebrities and, like, stop the game.

Like, they should start, like, as my producer brain turns on, like, we should start, like, producing this now.

You know what I mean?

Like, we should start mathematically figuring out what games it's going to happen in, start booking people, start setting up a performer's lights and graphics and T-shirts or whatever.

Like, this is going to be a huge event that, like, in 10 years from now, I think we look back at this season.

It's like, oh, this team won and LeBron passed Kareem.

No, I can see that.

I think that's a good vet prediction.

I know it's super early, but finals predictions.

Or what teams do you see?

Give me four teams.

Give me four teams.

Give me four teams.

Give me four teams.

Give me four teams.

Give me four teams.

Give me four teams.

Who do you think could be in that finals?

Yeah, let's do conference finals.

Again, like, I'm wrong about this, like, pretty much every year.

You know what I mean?

We all are.

Because it's so easy.

Like, yeah, it's just like, and also, I'll change mine.

And I'll change mine and then act like that was my preseason pick, too.

Like, I'll just straight up lie.

Like, I have no shame about anything when it comes to these weird predictions.

Like, give me yours.

Let me just, help me out.

What do you got?

Let's go your Eastern Conference and my Eastern Conference.

And I'll go first with the Western Conference.

Well, I have this weird kind of faith in the Miami Heat.

For no reason at all.

Just because I think they're an exciting team to watch.

Yeah.

When Miami's good, it's good for the NBA.

So, I would love to see, as far as excitement goes, Boston-Miami.

I think those are just two really, like, fun, young teams.

And that would be very exciting.

The Bucs are great, but they're a bit boring to me to watch.

Wow.

Do you hear that?

I know.

I know Giannis listens.

He's going to be so upset with me.

No, it's nothing against Giannis.

Like, he's exciting.

But I think the team.

In general, for whatever it is, like, I enjoy watching Boston or Miami over them.

So, for that, I would put them.

And then, I honestly, I'd love to see the Warriors-Suns.

I know we got a little bit of a preview of that, even this week.

The Suns, I've been one of those people who's been kind of thinking that they were a little

overhyped the past couple years.

Because, again, on paper, everything seems great.

But for some reason, they just can't put it together.

But, now that the past two years have gone by.

They've kind of given it away.

I feel like maybe there's a little more incentive to finally get there.

And I would love to see the Warriors back.

Because that would just be dope.

They had five rings.

That would be wild.

First of all, I want to start by just recognizing your Eastern Conference Finals matchup.

And saying, I like it.

You really made a great case.

And I was in the building, like, Jimmy Butler missed a three.

You know what I mean?

We talked about it for, like, three days of whether or not he should have taken it to the rim and drew a foul or whatever.

But, like, that thing rimmed out.

Like, we are, like, a millimeter away, you know, a few millimeters away from, like, them going to the finals

and being, like, the Eastern Conference champions from last year.

They would have never beaten the Warriors in a million years.

But, like, I think, like, I even write them off.

Early in this pod, I put them in the second tier of the Eastern Conference.

And, like, Heat fans, and especially my man, Parakeet Cortez, who I hope listens to this,

because everyone listens to this, but he's going to get mad at me.

It's like, I put them in the, they're like, they were in game seven at home and missed a three.

Like.

Yeah.

But for some reason, like, I still don't respect them that same way.

So, great picks there.

I have the Bucs because, like you, like, I don't, they're not one of my favorite league pass watches.

Like, you know, Giannis' dominance is, like, just dominant is exactly that.

And him, like, sort of in the zone can match anybody else's great performance in the zone.

I have the Bucs.

They are kind of a boring pick, but, like, they're really good.

They're missing, you know, they're missing Middleton last year.

You know, what do you want them to do?

If they're healthy, I have them in there.

But my second, my second pick is more of, like, a confession.

Just, I can't, I can't quit Nets optimism.

I can't do it.

I don't know why.

I quit a long time ago.

I'm sorry.

I don't know why.

I can't quit Nets.

I'm like, Kyrie Irving, like, he's got a great track record.

He's never submarine, like, locker room chemistry in the past.

You know, and, like, KD is KD.

But then a KD, if you think about KD last year in the Celtics series, which, like, kind of feels like four years ago.

You remember that?

Like, like, like, turning the ball over and, like, he wouldn't dribble.

They're, like, swiping at his hands.

He couldn't even get a shot off clean.

Like, I still believe.

I believe in the Nets.

I still, against all evidence, like, when I, like, I'm going with my heart, not my head.

I'm going Nets Bucks.

And then Western Conference.

We both have the Warriors because I just feel like the Warriors are just, like, at this point.

I mean, like, to have a team like they had last year and then just be like, oh, by the way, we've got, like, a sort of seasoned seven-footer who's been in our, you know, system for two years but was out last year for injury.

We're just going to add him and we're developing Kaminga.

And now we've got this Jordan Poole guy developing as, like, a go-to scorer.

Like, just the idea that they've got not just the sort of vet core but they've got, like.

You know, second-year guys, third-year guys, and rookies that are, you know, James Wiseman, at least.

And then they've got Devin Chenzo.

Like, they've just kind of reloaded in a way that most champions can't and don't.

So, I have them in.

Like, be shocked if it doesn't happen.

And then I'm going with another weird one.

The Nuggets.

Let me make my case.

Oh, God.

Nikola Jokic.

Okay.

Nikola Jokic got this team and that roster without much of a supporting cash out to all of those excellent basketball players, the professionals that play alongside of him.

But, like, you know, I think there were other superstars.

They had different supporting castes.

When you look at, like, the Lucas and the Stephs and the, you know, the KDs and whatever.

And then they add Jamal Murray.

We've seen him, what he can do.

Right.

And they, you know, add Michael Porter Jr., who is, like, you know, granted, like, somewhat of a, like, you know, high-ceiling, low-four contributor.

And health has a lot to do with that.

But, like, if Michael Porter Jr. is right and Jamal Murray is right and Nikola Jokic is what he is, like, I could see them having a great regular season, putting them in position to get to the Western Conference Finals.

Those are my picks.

I guess we just haven't seen them yet.

This season, together, gelling.

What about Dallas?

I wanted to ask.

Because that was someone that I kind of had up there with the Suns.

I feel like that could go either way if Dallas gets it together.

Dallas might have overperformed last year.

Like, I think if that, you know, whatever happened at the end of that Suns thing, like, you know, curse, COVID, whatever sort of spells, whatever your theory is as to what happened in that game seven.

DeAndre Aydin upset, whatever.

I do feel like if the Suns played that series ten times, they'd probably win seven or eight.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Right.

That was, like, really heroic from Luca.

But they lose Jalen Brunson, who was, like, a big piece of their playoff run.

And they kind of, like, swap out Biggs and bring in Wood, who I think was, like, three for three last night shooting threes.

He looked great.

But I and they added Hardaway.

Just like there's a part of me that kind of just need to see it with the Mavericks.

But, like, that's I think one of the most intriguing things about this season is, like, that second spot in the Western Conference Finals.

Because, like I mentioned, the very top, like, I feel like in the Western Conference, you have the Warriors.

And it's like, who?

Who else?

Kind of like this pack of, like, five teams.

Like, the Clippers and the Mavs and the Nuggets and the, you know, and the Lakers.

And I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody else.

But, like, it feels like the Warriors are kind of, like, in.

And there's, like, the musical chairs for the second spot in the dance card.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Answer this for me because you're more in the know.

Why are people picking the Clippers to go all the way?

That's very confusing to me.

Okay.

I'll give you three words.

Two names, one word.

Tyloo.

Right?

I think, like, there's a Tyloo effect.

Like, if you look at, I mean, they were without PG and Kawhi for, like, a long stretch of their season last season.

And they were getting it done.

I think Tyloo would be my first person.

My second word would be depth.

Like, they kind of have, like, a second unit that would start on, like, a few teams.

You know what I mean?

Like, they've got, they're, like, one of those teams I call, like, a Noah's Ark team.

Like, they've just got two of everything, you know, which not every team does.

Yeah.

A lot of teams kind of go, like, eight people.

But they've got a full, like, Noah's Ark roster.

And the last one is just Kawhi.

Like, what he did in that Toronto year.

And, again, like, he hasn't really been healthy since.

And the bubble was the bubble.

But, like, that Toronto thing is, like, just wild.

After, you know, doing it previously with the Spurs.

Like, I just think he's, like, a playoff weapon that, like, you know, only the LeBrons and Lucas and Stephs and Giannis' can really compare to.

But it's just, like, there's a part of me that's very concerned.

Because as of us taping this.

Like, he didn't play last night.

And it wasn't like, hey, I'm resting.

It's like, I'm leaving the road trip and going back to Los Angeles and receiving treatment.

Like, it's not like, oh, hey, like, you know, Kawhi's on a plan and minutes restriction and this and that.

And he also wasn't playing, like, 38 minutes back-to-backs either.

Like, he was playing 20 minutes a game.

And here we are in game five.

And he's already, like, on a plane by himself to get treatment.

That's just very concerning for me.

So, I wouldn't put the Clippers in there just for that reason.

Because I hope.

MVP predictions.

I know it's also very early.

But any players that.

Of course.

Are up there for you.

I'm not going with the chalk one here.

I'm going with kind of a bold take.

It's only been done, again, off the top of my head, I think, three times.

And I think it's, like, Larry, Kareem, and Wilt.

And I think Nikola Jokic is going to win his third straight.

And let me tell you why.

A lot of the times, you know, it's hard to win the MVP and be, like, the seventh seed unless you're Russell Westbrook.

This is more of a belief in the Nuggets progression.

And it's a little bit of a bet on the production of Michael Porter Jr.

And.

And Jamal Murray.

Because I really think that they could truly, like, in a tough Western Conference, they could truly become, like, a one-seed, two-seed, three-seed.

And then Nikola Jokic will, again, like, no one will want to give it to him.

Like, last year, like, I wanted to vote.

I didn't vote.

But I wanted to vote for Joel Embiid.

But, like, when you start kind of, like, reading and, like, looking at the numbers and looking at the wins, losses.

And just kind of looking at, like, you know, like, going to basketball reference and looking at their last ten games.

Kind of like, I don't know.

Like, it's hard to give it to him.

So, I think it would be one of those things where, like, Nikola just becomes an undeniable MVP.

Because this is a bit of a bet on the performance of the Nuggets.

And who do you have?

And what do you think about Nikola Jokic?

You haven't heard that one, have you?

I think I've heard people say that he's still up there.

But.

I don't know.

Luka is really exciting to me.

But, again, it's one of those things where we know that Luka can score.

But can he elevate his team along with it?

I think that's a big thing.

And I think Joel Embiid.

And even, honestly, this is, like, a little bit of insider information.

Like, that's what he was.

I know his trainer, Drew Hanlon, really well.

Like, they've been working on that.

Getting that MVP for the last few years.

So, I know, like, he wants that.

He wants to win.

Like, that's a competitor.

He works really hard during the offseason.

So, I know that he thinks also that he deserved it last year.

Along with a lot of other people thought that he deserved it.

And so, I feel like Joel and then we'll see what Luka does with the Mavs.

If he can elevate them and get them back to the same position that they were last year.

In playoffs, I could see both of them being there, too.

But, okay.

So, wrong or right, we might both be wrong this entire season.

But we shall find out.

But, on the Courtside Club, we do like to take a halftime break if you're down.

On Jalen and Jacoby, you guys do a lot of top fives with your guests.

So, for you, I wanted to get your starting fives.

Love this.

So, I have different categories for you.

First up, sticking on the NBA theme, the starting five players in the NBA right now.

Starting five players in the NBA.

So, I'm not going to go.

Like, I'm not trying to win games here.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm trying to have a good team chemistry.

So, I haven't been prepped with these.

So, I'm going off the top of my head.

So, I'm feeling a little bit to think of just some personalities that I want around.

All right?

So, I'm going number one.

I want Giannis.

Okay?

Because winning, again, like I want a good time and I want a good culture.

Hard to do that when you're losing.

You know what I mean?

Like, not a lot of fun dinner.

It's after the game when you're losing.

So, I have Giannis just to guarantee me like a certain level of quality.

All right?

Because now I can just start, you know, people that I think are fun.

LaMelo Ball comes to mind.

Filling out the roster.

I love LaMelo Ball.

Great personality.

He's a weirdo.

He admits it.

His whole thing is like I'm one of one.

And also, who doesn't love a fancy pass?

Because like a fancy pass, the best thing about a fancy pass, because I'm an over passer

and I do fancy passes when I play.

So, you know, I always like that.

In other people's games.

Again, I'm bad at basketball.

LaMelo good at basketball.

But whatever.

We all like an inappropriately fancy pass.

Because it gets LaMelo in the highlight and he gets off.

But also gives the finisher a chance to sign.

So, now 40% of our team is involved in the highlight.

Again, good vibes.

Lots of wins.

He's a good distributor.

Right?

Okay.

We need just a pure thumper.

Right?

Because LaMelo's got the ball.

Giannis is going to get his buckets.

So, we need just like a...

A catch and shoot ace.

Probably some defense would be helpful as well.

So, we're looking for like a classic 3 and D.

And again, team guys.

Chemistry.

I also need the guy who's going to get kicked out of the game like Clay Thompson yesterday.

I'm going with...

And he's available.

So, I'm getting Jay Crowder for like a second round pick.

Right?

I'm bringing Jay Crowder.

Right now, I got Jay Crowder.

Because he's tough, but he's quiet.

You know what I mean?

You always want the guy when there's a problem at the club that we know we send him over

as our representatives.

Like Game of Thrones.

Game of Thrones style.

You know what I mean?

It's like, Jay, like, you speak for the group here.

Like, you're in charge.

You know what I mean?

Because I plan on having like a fun young team.

So, I need Jay Crowder.

Yeah.

And LaMelo might be running his mouth.

So, Jay might need to just step in.

You know?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Exactly.

I'm going to take Ben Simmons because I'm such a Ben Simmons believer and apologist

that I just want him...

I just want...

I want the Ben Simmons Assance to happen.

You know what I mean?

I want the Ben Simmons redemption tour.

So, I'm going to bring him with us.

And then finally...

I...

I need like a...

I don't know if that'll work alongside LaMelo.

Because I want LaMelo to have the ball.

You know what I mean?

I was thinking Chris Paul.

But he's also like not fun.

You know what I mean?

So, he's killing all my vibes.

Chris Paul, you're a great player.

You're not invited to this team.

He would be like team dad, you know?

Chris Paul could offer for no compensation.

Yeah.

If they were like, do you want Chris Paul for nothing?

I'd be like, no.

Vibe killer.

Yes, we would probably win an extra 15 games a season.

But like, killing the vibes.

You know what I mean?

Don't do that.

We're not going to get him.

What about Ja?

I want someone young who dresses crazy.

Oh, Tuka did basketball.

You know what I mean?

Like, we got Giannis.

You know what I mean?

I feel like LaMelo's going to be unhappy.

I want a happy LaMelo.

I feel like if Ja's just taking the ball, driving past people and dunking and LaMelo's

like in the corner spotting up.

Like, I'm really trying to foster LaMelo's vibes to be the highest.

I'm going with a Kuzma.

So, we've got Kuzma, Crowder, Giannis.

Kuzma, Crowder, Giannis, LaMelo.

I want like a really bad...

He's a bouncy, lob-catchy guy that's super fun to throw alley-oops to.

So, let's go with like a Mitchell Robinson.

You know what I mean?

Okay.

He's good vibes.

No, Jackson Hayes.

Jackson Hayes.

He gets arrested sometimes.

Oh, my God.

You never know.

Yeah.

Go with Jackson Hayes.

Jackson Hayes.

He'll catch the lobs.

He'll rim protect.

And like, who knows what happens when we go out at night.

So, that's my starting five right there.

I'm appointing Chris Paul just to go on road trips with you guys to make sure that everybody

stays on the show.

As chaperone?

And he'll text Adam Silver and be like, send the security.

Here's our address.

And drop a pin.

Because you know he's on text with Adam Silver.

He'll be like, we need the wolf.

We send the wolf.

We're in Salt Lake City.

We need you.

He'll drop the pin.

He's in the back with his sunglasses and his like little trench coat just watching from

the corner.

Woo.

Exactly.

All right.

Well, that's a really fun starting five in the NBA right now.

But I'd also like to know, you're starting five NBA players of all time.

That's pretty easy.

Well, there's always like tricky.

It gets tricky.

But I can't do it without Kareem.

I can't do it without Michael Jordan.

I can't do it without LeBron James.

I never saw Will.

But like, dude scored 100.

I'll throw him in there.

Magic Johnson.

I probably forgot somebody important.

Interesting.

That's what I'm going with.

So, Will, Kareem, Mike, LeBron, and Magic Johnson.

Magic.

It is someone who grew up in Massachusetts and prayed.

I prayed to a lady.

I'm going to give you a bird poster before all my games, but I can't.

I can't put him in the top.

When Jalen was on the courtside club, he made his starting five and then said

that he would block anybody who didn't have Bill Russell in their top three

all time.

But he didn't put Bill Russell in his starting five, though.

I think Bill Russell.

I'll take.

I'll take.

I'll take.

Who am I taking out?

You're going to put someone.

You got to take someone out.

I'm taking out.

Well, I'm taking out.

Who's the last person?

No, man.

Magic Johnson.

Magic Johnson?

Yeah.

I like magic.

I like magic.

I'll take out Will and put in Bill Russell.

Okay.

So, he is in your starting five.

Can't be wrong here.

Yeah.

Sure.

I forget someone every time I make a list.

I've made this very clear.

Okay.

So, on Jalen and Jacoby, you guys also have a lot of music guests.

I feel like you guys are talking about music or have musical guests on all the time.

So, I want to know your starting five music artists of all time.

Starting five music artists of all time.

Oh, God.

God.

God.

God.

God.

Okay.

Okay.

Let me go.

This is just my personal in no particular order.

I can't be wrong about this.

It's one thing I want.

This is my opinion.

Yeah.

I'm going with Wu-Tang Clan because I get like nine.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's a cheat.

So, now, you know what I mean?

I've already filled up my top five with nine people and I've got four more spots.

Okay.

Fine.

Okay.

I'll take it.

I'm going with the Wu-Tang Clan.

Yeah.

I think that's fair.

I love Redman personally.

It's just a personal thing of mine.

I just love the guy.

And I'm going to go with a playlist and more of a vibe than an actual music artist for

my third one.

It's Apple Music or Spotify, whatever you listen to.

Piano Chill, it's called.

It's just like super chill piano music.

It's just like slow, like no other instruments, just one person, man or woman on a piano just

playing super slow chill jams.

And just like if you ever have it, the day's getting a little too fast for you.

Or you need to go to sleep or you need to chill on a plane or you're just like walking

through the city, put on some Piano Chill and the vibes will just be fixed.

It is the Robitussin of music right there.

I wasn't expecting that.

That's my number three pick.

I'm going to go All Time, man.

There's some real people who really contributed to this art.

You know what I mean?

I don't want to go away from it.

Yeah, especially Piano Chill.

Yeah.

I kid you.

I don't want to go away from it.

Instead, I'm like, God, I'm thinking like Michael Jackson, Prince, I'm thinking Mozart.

And then Rachel off the top rope is like, bro, you put in Piano Chill.

So let's not overthink this.

All right.

Yeah.

I was thinking like Mozart and Bach.

And I'm like, I don't even, you can't name a single, a single hit.

I don't have, I don't have a single banger from Bach.

So like, stop trying to be smart, Jacoby.

Just say Redman again.

All right.

So I got Redman, Wu-Tang Clan, Redman, Wu-Tang Clan, Piano Chill, Jack White.

I really like Jack White.

Like, I'm not a huge White Stripes guy, but I love the rock.

I love the rock.

And I just think like he's a really like good musician.

And for number five, I'm going to go Rick Rubin.

Just because, again, I get a lot underneath me there.

You know, I'm taking out Jack White, putting in Dr. Dre.

I'm going Dr. Dre and Rick Rubin as my finishers.

Because I get so much there.

Like, you see what I did with Wu-Tang Clan, Dr. Dre and Rick Rubin?

Like, I get their catalogs.

It's kind of like a versus battle.

Like, they can kind of do their own features and whatever.

So my final list is Piano Chill, Redman, Wu-Tang Clan, Jack White and Rick Rubin.

No, wait.

You took out Jack White for Dr. Dre.

Yeah, I did.

Whatever.

I don't know.

I'm not keeping a list.

No idea what I'm doing here, Rachel.

You need your own segment, David Jacoby, off the top of my head.

Like, that would be a fire show.

It's called Jalen and Jacoby.

Right.

It just says on the rundown.

It says, like, I don't have, like, prompter.

You know what I mean?

It just says, like, Blazers game.

Knicks game.

And I just kind of make it work from there.

All right.

It's time for the second.

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How did you and Jalen meet?

How did this show that has now been going for over 10 years, how did it come about?

Great question.

Actually, two different answers to one question.

We met in the bathroom of Stroker's, a gentleman's club in Atlanta, and it was one of my first foyers into the Atlanta gentlemen's club experience.

It's very different, it is very much a hang, it is very much a code situation, a lot of food focused, and I was there with my friend, and it wasn't the most diverse crowd, and Dave Chappelle was there, and at some point, the guy, the DJ, was like, Dave Chappelle, is that you?

Dave Chappelle's in the building, like, everybody cheers, and gets all excited, and this is a long time ago, like, this is 2004, and Dave Chappelle was there, and they gave Dave Chappelle the mic, and I think they expected him to, like, do, like, a, hey, I'm Dave Chappelle, this is amazing, love Stroker, it's like, they expected him to, like, be nice.

He gets on the mic, he goes, where are my wings?

I guess his wing order was, like, delayed.

So he did, like, he did, like, two minutes of just roasting the establishment on how long their wings take to get to his table.

Classic Dave Chappelle, like, mode, and then one trip to the bathroom, Jalen was there, and, like, you know, you can't, like, talk to another person while you're at the urinal or whatever, so, like, we were, like, washing our hands, and I just had to, like, introduce myself and say what's up.

And then, you know, eight years later, he proposed doing a podcast for Grantland to Bill Simmons, who was running Grantland, and myself, who was in charge of audio and video at Grantland, and we had a call meeting about it, and I was like, so, Jalen, like, we'll do a pilot.

Because you always want to do a pilot.

You don't want to, like, give someone a podcast that you can't take back.

Podcast producers, listen.

And I was like, we're going to do a pilot, like, is there someone that you played with or, like, someone you grew up with that you want to do it with?

Like, who do you want to do this with?

And, like, it was quiet for a second, and he goes, what, you don't want to do it?

And then he proposed that he wanted to do it with me, and I thought I would just do the pilot, and we would eventually replace me with that spot, and now we're 11 years later, and that spot was never replaced.

Here you are sitting in the studio now.

That's dope.

Here I am.

Really quick, though, before we talk more about the show, is it true, because I'm not one who frequents gentlemen's clubs, but I have heard that the chicken wings are, like, the main focus of those things.

Is that true?

That's an Atlanta exclusive thing, yeah.

Okay.

I would never order food, like, not never, but food is not, like, the main attraction in most of these establishments, but, like, in Atlanta, it's very much, like, a thing.

It's much more of a, it's a very different culture there, and I've only been, like, a handful of times, so I can't speak it like an expert, but it's, like, it's just, it's sort of shocking.

There's, like, a lot of pool playing and game watching and wing eating, you know what I mean?

It becomes, like, sort of, it's, like, one of the things that's going on is the sort of entertainment, whereas many other places, it's, like, the attainment is the thing that's going on.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does make sense.

Okay, so working with Jalen, has there ever been a time that you guys got?

You got into it, and you were kind of worried about where the show was going to go?

You guys have been working together for over 10 years now.

There had to be, it hasn't, it couldn't have been all smooth sailing.

It's not all smooth sailing.

There was never a, like, early on, sometimes you wouldn't text back for a while.

Like, hey, you're doing it, what time, what day this week you want to do the show?

This is very early on, and, like, I wouldn't hear back, and I'd be, like, is he, like, even into this?

You know what I mean?

It's kind of, like, one of those dating things where you don't hear back.

You're, like, we could break up, dude.

Like, I don't care.

You know what I mean?

Just, like, let me know.

You know what I mean?

That was just, like, early, early on.

It was, like, a little hard, like, pin him down to do it.

I would question whether he's into it or not.

But once we kind of got established, and it was fun, and sort of, like, became, like, actual friends and going on,

there was never a moment where, like, the actual show or the partnership was in question.

But, like, you know, as, like, very close colleagues and brothers, like, we bicker over, like, little stuff that gets intense.

Like, someone on the phone call, this is, like, so dumb, but anyone who's, like, ever been in a romantic relationship

or, like, a very close working environment can, like, relate to this.

Is someone on the call compared Ben Simmons to Draymond Green, right?

This is, like, now, is this something that should, like, start, like, an all-out, like, war of the Targaryens?

Like, no, but it totally did.

Because Jalen's, like, on the call, he's, like, don't ever compare Ben Simmons to Draymond Green.

Like, that's insane.

And then I decided to be, like, you know what?

Like, I understand what you're saying, Jalen.

Like, they're very different basketball players.

However, great defenders, size, can guard one through five, limited skill set.

Like, offensively, but, like, effective, great passers.

I'm, like, you know, there's some intersection of those two circles.

And, like, that turned into, like, a huge passionate argument that, like, you know, like, boiled over.

So it's not, like, oh, like, you know, kind of, like, as you led the question, it was, like, oh, man,

we thought we weren't going to do the show in, like, 2015 and we had a big fight

and, like, punched each other in the parking lot and didn't talk for three months.

Like, that doesn't happen.

But, like, the little stuff about, like, Draymond Green is Ben Simmons.

Yes, he is.

No, he's not.

Can, like, boil over.

Can boil over and bicker just like any sort of, like, close couple.

So it's a lot more of that kind of thing than it is the, like, oh, my God, let's cancel the show.

I hate this guy kind of thing.

Yeah.

So there's no footage that TMZ is going to get with one of you guys throwing a crazy punch.

No.

I mean, maybe, but, like, not at each other.

And, like, not landing, for sure.

If it's from me, yeah.

Yeah, it's, like, not at him and it's definitely not going to land.

Yeah, and then I'll get punched a lot after that.

So that will be the footage.

It'll be much more like me throwing a crazy punch, missing, and then getting my ass kicked.

And then, like, you know.

And then we'll move on to the next thing.

Like, whatever.

Would you guys ever box each other?

There's been a lot of influencer celebrity boxing going on.

No.

No.

No, no, no.

No.

Well, two things.

Number one, my nose breaks in a stiff wind.

It's been broken a bunch.

So, like, no.

And number two, like, I did some boxing as a kid.

Very tiring sport.

Exhausting.

Like, no breaks.

Like, no breaks.

You know what I mean?

Like, you're playing pickup basketball.

You, like, take a possession off.

Like, I'm sure you played soccer.

You kind of, like, hide for a little bit when the ball's the other side.

Like, baseball, you're basically standing around the whole time.

You know what I mean?

Like, volleyball, you have a huddle.

Football, we do something for five seconds, then huddle up and rest for 40 seconds.

Like, no breaks in Boston.

Like, you're out there.

Like, you're moving.

Like, three minutes on, and then two minutes off, or whatever it is.

Like, it is tiring.

I don't have that kind of stamina.

And I don't like to be punched.

I don't even like punching people.

Like, it is not my sport, even in a very, like, sort of, like, for charity sort of exhibition

kind of way.

Like, no thank you.

Like, three minutes.

It's gone, like, a long time.

But, like, when you're getting punched and trying to punch somebody, and, like, there's

zero breaks.

Like, three minutes is long, man.

I'm not doing that.

Speaking of, Jake Paul's fight this weekend against Anderson Silva.

Who do you got?

I think it's fair to say that, like, when we watch these things, we just really want

Jake Paul to get knocked out.

Now, I'm not trying to say that I don't like Jake Paul.

I'm not trying to say that I don't have, like, utmost respect for his hustle and, like, his,

like, many branches of revenue streams and his sort of, like, manipulation.

Like, shout out to him for, like, making himself a millionaire off of, like, being

himself and, like, becoming a pretty decent boxer.

He was like, hey, I'm going to try boxing.

But that was also, like, four years ago.

He's, like, trained every day for four years to become a boxer.

Like, at this point, he is a boxer.

But, like, when I watch these things, I want him to get knocked out, and it never happens.

And I was excited about this fight because Silva's got such a great, like, history and

pedigree.

And, like, I've seen him knock so many people out.

But when I saw the promotional photos, I was like, oh, man.

Like, one guy's, like, really excited to take his shirt off.

And, like, one guy's, like, you know, like, not.

And I think I'm going to go for, like, the younger, bigger dude.

And I wouldn't bet on this one.

I'm rooting.

Yeah, I'm rooting for Jake Paul to get knocked out.

And I will root for Jake Paul to get knocked out.

Like, I can't imagine an opponent in the other corner that I would, like, root for Jake Paul

against.

Like, I really, like, you have to be, like, a really bad person that, like, they wouldn't

even let on the card for me to root, like, for Jake Paul.

Dang.

But I don't think it's going to happen at this point.

And I will say, though, he has earned my respect over the past few years with what

he's done.

And it does seem like he's taking it seriously.

But I do like this matchup a little bit better because at least, you know, it's someone with

20 years experience on him, you know.

So, obviously, like, he's young and has a lot of energy.

And, you know, three minutes might not seem that long to him.

But Anderson Silva's been doing this for, you know, however many decades.

But he still hasn't fought a boxer.

You know what I mean?

Like, he's fought athletes.

He's fought UFC fighters.

And he's going to do that again.

And, like, I do want to say, like, I felt the same thing.

Like, oh, experienced fighter.

But, like, you know, it's a different sport.

Like, just because you're really good at rugby, like, doesn't mean you can, like, play in

the NFL on Sunday.

You know what I mean?

Like, there's a lot of the transferable skills.

I don't know, punching and defending yourself.

But, like, it is a very different discipline.

And I think that Jake Paul has carefully decided not to fight boxers anywhere near their prime.

I think that's also smart, though.

But we'll see.

We'll see.

We'll see what happens this weekend.

But we are reaching the end of the game.

So I have some buzzer beaters for you.

I'm excited.

Let's do it.

So I'm David Jacoby off the top of my head buzzer beaters.

Great.

I know you're a foodie.

So what is your ideal food and drink combo while sitting courtside?

Ooh, ideal food and drink.

While sitting courtside is a different thing.

Because it's a very different question if I'm, like, at a restaurant seated.

This is kind of be something I can, like, eat from my lap.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And you'll be okay.

You can be on camera.

You can be on the Jumbotron.

Okay.

Yep.

Good.

I am going with simple.

I was just in L.A. recently.

I lived in L.A. for Grantland between, like, 2011, 2015, 16, something like that.

And I thought I had eaten, like, tacos before.

But I had never eaten tacos until I lived in Los Angeles.

So they would be straight up just carne asada street tacos with, like, a spicy michelada.

Because I feel courtside, like, you can kind of just have, like, a little taco tray in your lap.

No utensil.

You can hold a taco in one hand and a beer in the other hand and still watch the game.

Like, there can't be a utensil involved.

So finger food would be carne asada street tacos, lots of onions, cilantro, lots of, like, you know, chalula tapatia.

And that would be my vibe.

I just came back from Los Angeles, so it's very much influencing me.

What about to drink?

Michelada.

Another Los Angeles thing.

I see myself at a Laker game.

Oh, I guess I didn't know what that was.

What is a michelada?

It's a great question.

It's a great question.

And they don't really sell them, like, outside of Southern California.

Or actually, you know, I shouldn't say that.

All over Mexico, I'm a positive.

Michelada is basically a Bloody Mary, but instead of vodka, it's beer.

I'm sure it's more complicated than that.

I don't know how to make them, but it's some combination of, like, lime juice, tomato juice, spicy stuff, and beer.

So it's kind of like a Bloody Mary, but instead of vodka, beer.

And it comes on ice.

I've always wondered why we don't drink beer with ice.

Like, we drink soda with ice, but never beer.

It's a conversation for another time.

Because watered-down beer is probably, well, I guess watered-down soda is gross, too.

Huh.

I don't know.

I like it.

I don't mind.

Yeah.

One person dead or alive that you'd love to sit courtside with.

Okay.

I mean, I'm going to say, like, people in my personal life are excluded.

Like, I'd love to bring some family members back, but that's not, like, the exercise of this podcast, I imagine.

Sorry to my mother-in-law.

But I want to have a good time.

I want to have some beers.

Right?

That's nice.

I want, like, maybe to go out afterwards, if it goes well.

You know what I mean?

Like, I don't want to learn.

Like, I don't want to have, like, Malcolm Gladwell there, like, teach me how to, like, be a better person.

You know what I mean?

Like, I want a good time person.

So I'm going to go with, like, Bill Murray.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's what I'm going to go with to sit courtside of a game.

I feel like he'll wear something awesome.

Like, he apparently doesn't have, like, a phone number or, like, a mail address.

He's, like, an enigma, like, a ghost lord of just, like, Hollywood.

Yeah.

So I'm going Bill Murray.

And we're not going to be in Los Angeles.

Well, me and Bill Murray at, like, a...

Well, like...

Go to a Timberwolves game or something.

And then, like, you know, see what Minneapolis is talking about afterwards.

Why don't you go to Atlanta and then go back to the Gentleman's Club after?

I'm scared.

No.

No, thank you.

No, thank you.

I've had enough.

I'm retired.

I'm old.

I'm old.

I'm old.

I'm old.

I was, like, when I was in that place, I was, like, 24.

You know what I mean?

Jalen was, like, still in the league.

Skinny.

Next, I'm going to go with...

Someone just passed me.

I'd love to go to a basketball game.

Bill Russell.

Bill Russell.

You know?

Because, you know, it's one of those things where, again, it's just a sad...

We always...

Things people always say the last four years is, like, give them their flowers.

Give them their flowers.

Give them their flowers.

And the reason is, is because, like, people do pass away.

And, like, when you start listening to the interviews and when, in all the eulogies,

you hear the anecdotes.

And, like, as someone who's my age, I was born in 78.

So, like, I never really got, like, I didn't, like, you know, watch Bill Russell every day

the same way I did.

Like, Magic Larry and Michael.

So, like, just to...

From everything I've heard about him, he sounds like such a great hang, such a positive individual

and someone who really loved hoops.

So, if I'm sitting courtside, like, I kind of want someone that checks all those boxes.

So, I'm going with Bill Russell and Bill Murray.

And I guess Bills.

I'm into Bills.

Two Bills.

Two Bills.

What is one event in history that you would have loved to have been courtside for?

Oh, I'm going to go Woodstock.

The original Woodstock.

Woodstock 69.

Okay.

You know?

Like, I just feel like...

It was like, I wasn't there.

Much like, kind of like, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain.

Like, I've watched the YouTube clips and, like, I've heard people talk about it, but

it really felt like a vibe.

Like, I just really feel like it's such like...

It's like a concert.

It's a singular concert.

I'm not even a concert person.

I don't like live music.

I don't like...

I've never gone to a festival.

Like, I don't like live music.

I'm a piano chill guy.

But this one concert just seemed like...

And it's all secondhand information.

Like, there isn't really footage.

Like, it just seemed like such a seminal moment in society.

And such like a sort of a page turn for like...

Like, I don't know.

For like a country, I'll say.

Instead of like a species.

And that seems to be like one event that if I could like really just like go back in history

and be a part of...

That's just the first thing that came to mind.

And I'm sticking with it.

Cool.

I appreciate that.

Well, David, thank you so much for coming on the Courtside Club.

Is there anything else that we should be on the lookout for?

And also, where can people follow you on socials?

Okay.

I'm on Instagram.

I'm on Instagram as Jacoby Juice.

A decision I made a long time ago.

I don't know how I feel about it.

You know what I mean?

Jacoby Juice.

I want the alliteration.

I was like, you know those moments where you're like, this is going to stick.

You know what I mean?

Like, I got to...

This is going to stick.

And for some reason, I was just...

I just was so bored of trying to come up with new ones that I got stuck on Jacoby Juice.

But like, that's what it is.

And then DJacoby on Twitter.

And on TikTok, which I'm trying to do more of.

I'm Jacoby on Soup.

I really like Soup.

It's one of my favorite things in the world.

So it's literally just the soups that I eat.

Not even like me talking about them or anything interesting.

So if you're interested in just looking at Soup in action, Jacoby on Soup.

I love that.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the Courtside Club.

Thank you so much for having me on, Rachel.

Thank you.